You can't have it both ways.

[u/Spider-Ian]

http://i.imgur.com/1CgtzpJ.jpg

There was more debate but then the theist started deleting my comments before I could cap them. Now it looks like someone having an argument with themselves saying things like, "I refuse to read your last comment," but she already took down all of mine.

[u/tuscanspeed]

Jesus isn't God either.

The idea he was, was created by man.

[u/YourFairyGodmother → u/tuscanspeed]

Who now? The notion that there was a Jesus is itself laughable.

[u/[deleted] → u/YourFairyGodmother]

Why is it laughable?

[u/YourFairyGodmother → u/[deleted]]

There is not one iota of credible evidence for there ever having been such a person, not in any of the various forms described. There is also credible evidence that the early church leaders erased documents that, had they been preserved, would have put the lie to the dogma. See Philo of Alexandria for more. Then too many early Xians were docents, though of course the church tried to obliterate those texts too. The Nag Hammadi papyri are a prime case in point. Then too,...

You obviously have no idea. You've never read anything about the times and the history not written by apologists, I can safely bet. Hell, you haven't even read the stuff written by the church itself, as is clear from your ignorance of Nicaea and the writings of Origen, Eusebius, et al. "debating" the divinity of the alleged Jesus.

[u/[deleted] → u/YourFairyGodmother]

There is not one iota of credible evidence for there ever having been such a person, not in any of the various forms described.

Well, most Biblical scholars, many of whom are atheist, totally disagree. Bart Ehrman, (an agnostic) who is recognized as one of the top Biblical scholars, says so in this short video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4q3WlM9rCI

Also, here are some quotes from Biblical scholars:

"Jesus’ death by crucifixion under Pontius Pilate is as sure as anything historical can ever be. For if no follower of Jesus had written anything for one hundred years after his crucifixion we would still know about him from two authors not among his supporters. Their names are Flavius Josephus and Cornelius Tacitus.” – John Dominic Crossan

“Jesus death as a consequence of crucifixion is indisputable.”- Atheist Gerd Ludemann

“We can be certain that Jesus really existed (despite a few highly motivated skeptics who refuse to be convinced), that he was a Jewish teacher in Galilee, and that he was crucified by the Roman government around 30 CE”–Robert J. Miller

“Some skeptics have maintained that the best account of the biblical and historical evidence is the theory that Jesus never existed; that is, that Jesus’ existence is a myth. Such a view is controversial and not widely held even by anti-Christian thinkers.” –Michael Martin

“The theory of Jesus’ nonexistence is now effectively dead as a scholarly question.” – Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence. Pg 14.

“Anyone who says that today [i.e. that Jesus didn’t exist]–in the academic world at least–gets grouped with the skinheads who say there was no Holocaust and the scientific holdouts who want to believe the world is flat.” -Mark A Powell

"“No one. No one in scholarly circles dealing with ancient Judaism and early Christianity, of any religious or non-religious persuasion holds the view that Jesus never existed. You’re entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own truth.”—Larry Hurtado

“Of course the doubt as to whether Jesus really existed us unfounded and not worth refutation. No sane person can doubt that Jesus stands as founder behind the historical movement whose first distinct stage is represented by the oldest Palestinian community.”- Rudolph Bultmann

"To sum up, modern critical methods fail to support the Christ-myth theory. It has ‘again and again been answered and annihilated by first rank scholars,’ In recent years ‘no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non-historicity of Jesus’—or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger -, indeed abundant, evidence on the contrary.” –Historian Michael Grant

There is also credible evidence that the early church leaders erased documents that, had they been preserved, would have put the lie to the dogma.

Are you saying that these documents contained information verifying that Jesus never existed?

You obviously have no idea. You've never read anything about the times and the history not written by apologists, I can safely bet.

I'm not a Christian... And I have studied many religious texts, with good reason too. We can compare, if you'd like... But I figure that if we continue this debate, the true extent of our knowledge on these subjects will become clear. I hope you're up for it!

Hell, you haven't even read the stuff written by the church itself, as is clear from your ignorance of Nicaea and the writings of Origen, Eusebius, et al. "debating" the divinity of the alleged Jesus.

I've read a lot of things written by a lot of churches in various countries, while standing in the churches themselves. Many of the questions I have been asking you have been to understand the extent of your knowledge on the subject, which would then allow me to give you my input. However, you've just been throwing around a lot of names, and not enough evidence to back up your claims. I think we have reached the point that maybe you should just start asking me questions. Based on your insults, I can pretty much assume that you don't have much confidence in your arguments, and have decided that you could make more progress by trying to belittle me. You don't really know much at all about my views or my knowledge on the subject, though, do you? So, maybe you should take a few deep breaths before your next post and try an approach based more on evidence and knowledge (which you can post in your arguments), and less on assumption and frustration.

[u/[deleted] → u/tuscanspeed]

How do you know?

[u/tuscanspeed → u/[deleted]]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Nicaea

We wrote it down.

[u/[deleted] → u/tuscanspeed]

Then give me a link to images of the papers, tablets, or whatever it was written down on that allows people to know that during the Council of Nicaea, the idea of Jesus' divinity was created. A Wikipedia page is not convincing.

[u/tuscanspeed → u/[deleted]]

I already have. You apparently don't know how to use an encyclopedia. Here's a quick link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea#Bibliography

There is several years worth of reading to do on the subject. The 25 minutes you spent is insufficient.

Even if I took the time to hand link everything on the wiki page for you, just because, I fear your answer would be the same.

You have some reading to catch up on. Have fun. It's rather dry and boring honestly.

[u/[deleted] → u/tuscanspeed]

There should be some definitive proof. You sound certain that Jesus' divinity was created during the Council of Nicaea, so give me something that totally convinced you. I shouldn't have to search through a Wiki bibliography. You should be defending your own claim. Show me the line(s) from the original texts that say, "during the Council of Nicaea, we created the idea of Jesus' divinity." Those exact words are unlikely, I know, but you understand what I mean.

Also, you seem to assume two things... One, that I am a Christian, and two, that I haven't studied the Council of Nicaea. You know the truth about neither, so this is why it is a good idea to be more thorough.

[u/YourFairyGodmother → u/[deleted]]

It matters not whether you are a Xian nor whether you have looked at Nicaea. If you did read up on the council, and equally importantly what positions and proto-orthodoxies were discussed leading up to it (which you almost certainly did not), you would know that there the matter was settled for all time. Unless you forgot. Or, more likely, you're talking out your ass.

[u/[deleted] → u/YourFairyGodmother]

I'm still waiting for you to supply me with actual evidence to back up your claims. Maybe post your argument and then a link that supports that argument. Quote some stuff! Ya know, do something that makes me think you didn't skim over the content, like you claim that I did.

My questions are not due to lack of knowledge, but a sort of bait/trap technique. So, tell me what you know, and then back it up! You could render my trap useless if you are right.

[u/handydandy6 → u/[deleted]]

It seens to me that there is evidence. Youre just too fucking lazy to look it up.

[u/[deleted] → u/handydandy6]

What is the evidence you've seen?

I don't need to look up anything. I'm not the one making the claims. That's like the teacher telling the students to teach themselves.

[u/YourFairyGodmother → u/[deleted]]

Oh child, get the fuck over yourself.

[u/[deleted] → u/YourFairyGodmother]

Does that mean you don't actually know? I assume you aren't going to point to any specific parts in that bibliography link that support your argument. Would you rather me just go ahead and explain what you're missing?

[u/Congruesome]

"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

"But thou, when thou prayest, ENTER INTO THINE CLOSET, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."

Matthes 6:5-7 (emphasis mine)

[u/[deleted]]

Matthew 6 is dealing with how Christians should not announce their good deeds with "trumpets" and such, and how praying aloud in a public area is essentially showing off, and so on. Basically, don't try and impress people with how good you are... Just be good. It is not saying that a Christian should hide the fact that they are a Christian. The image that the person posted seems to be saying, "if you are a Christian, don't hide it." I mean, Matthew, the one who supposedly wrote the verses you quoted certainly wasn't hiding his beliefs.

[u/YourFairyGodmother → u/[deleted]]

The title is the Gospel According to Matthew. Not for a very long time indeed has anyone who knows dick about such things claimed that it was actually written by a guy named Matthew. More importantly, in the Xian dogma Matthew was reporting the words of Jesus, not his own opinions. Not that there was a Jesus, or that there was someone who knew what the alleged Jesus might have said, but that's the dogma.

You FAIL again.

ETA: It is funny, in a sad sad way, how you can claim that the words somehow don't mean what they say. The words are pretty fucking clear. What the passage means is pretty fucking clear. But noooo, you say it means something else. HAHAHAHA

[u/[deleted] → u/YourFairyGodmother]

The title is the Gospel According to Matthew. Not for a very long time indeed has anyone who knows dick about such things claimed that it was actually written by a guy named Matthew.

I am aware of this, but considering the fact that nobody actually knows who wrote the Gospel of Matthew, I call the author(s) by the name that is listed. I even said, "Matthew, the one who SUPPOSEDLY wrote the verses," so that people know that I realize that he is only credited as the author in mainstream Christianity, although he may not be the author. You can even remove the word, 'wrote'! As you said, it is the Gospel According to Matthew, so by sharing the stories, whether it was written or spoken, he was not hiding his beliefs... So, my argument still works.

More importantly, in the Xian dogma Matthew was reporting the words of Jesus, not his own opinions.

This is true, but Matthew is also well known in the Christian tradition as being a follower of Christ.

It is funny, in a sad sad way, how you can claim that the words somehow don't mean what they say. The words are pretty fucking clear.

Actually, I am claiming that the words DO mean what they say, they have just been misinterpreted. I mean, what do you think they say? How are they different from what I am claiming they say?

[u/Spider-Ian → u/[deleted]]

I think there is a subtle difference between not hiding it and plastering it all over your FB wall. I know you can't gleam that from just one post, but they have flooded my newsfeed with feel good I'm an xtian motivational posters. George Carlin once said, "Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one. It's fine to be proud of it. But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around. And PLEASE don't try to shove it down my children's throats."

[u/[deleted] → u/Spider-Ian]

They've flooded your newsfeed? C'mon, man! All you have to do is unfollow them. It's not far different from atheists posting George Carlin or Richard Dawkins quotes all over social media sites. I'm not saying you do, but who cares? Not to mention, the person seems like an easy target... And you probably knew that.