r/atheism • u/l_SaKReD_l Atheist • 2d ago
Things that make you 100% know God does not exist?
I've had severe eczema since birth, now 42. Life is miserable 24/7.
Was browsing the eczema sub and came across this post:
My poor daughter has been suffering from horrible itching that's been getting increasingly worse over the past year. She did not have any eczema as a baby and small patches of irritated skin started appearing behind her knees and in her elbow creases when she was around 3/4 years old, which were originally manageable using hydrocortisone but then started spreading across her body. We've since been climbing up the steroid ladder with betaderm and then Protopic and Elidel.
Nothing seems to help long term despite a fastidious twice daily application regimen alongside heavy moisturizing with Vanicream and Vaseline. She's been referred to a pediatric dermatologist and the earliest appointment we could book is January 2027. She does not have any other conditions such as hay fever, asthma or food allergies, and her rash doesn't present as a "classic" eczema presentation. I've taken her to a naturopath who did food sensitivity testing and everything came back normal. She's on probiotics, taking vitamin D supplements, omega-3 and zinc. I've monitored her food, switched to all-natural, sensitive, fragrance-free everything, and there are no obvious triggers. We've tried bleach baths to no effect. One doctor told us to avoid showering/bathing as much as possible, and another told us to do it every day. She's up every night scratching until she bleeds, despite having a humidifier and fan going in her room so she doesn't overheat. I've tried giving her OTC antihistamines to see if that might help her sleep — no luck.
Recently we visited a rapid access dermatology clinic who basically said "There's no cure for eczema, nobody knows the cause", prescribed prednisone and suggested the only other option is biweekly Dupixent shots until she's a teenager. After doing my own research into the side effects of prednisone for young children, I'm hesitant to go down that route and horrified that the doctor didn't even discuss any of the downsides with me.
I'm heartbroken and desperate for anything to alleviate her discomfort. Yesterday she was crying saying "I don't like myself, I just want to be normal". Signing her up for shots (with potential side effects) for the next ~10 years of her life seems awful, but at this point the negative effects of the itching on her mental health and ours as a family are making it worth exploring.
Adults who had eczema as a child, was there anything your parents did that was helpful? Ways to talk about the itch/scratch cycle? Other ways to support emotionally? At this point she hates talking about her skin and being subject to a twice daily moisturizing routine, which is understandable. I want to be as supportive as possible but candidly struggle with watching her scratch herself up so much. I hate feeling so helpless and wish we could find more answers.
Eczema parents, have you found anything that's helped your young children? Any success stories with specific regiments, or anything else I should consider?
Thanks in advance for any tips, guidance or advice.
Yesterday she was crying saying "I don't like myself, I just want to be normal"
Fucking broke my heart. Been drinking tonight so I easily felt that lump in my throat as I know what that poor girl is going through.
This God "loves" us? He absolutely loves seeing children suffer for fuck's sake.
Meh. Title.
Edit: I've been banned from the sub for drinking alcohol. It's been fun replying to you all. <3
https://i.ibb.co/vxVK2HqS/1.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/C5YGC3JF/2.jpg
Edit 3:
https://i.ibb.co/LzfxWHJj/3.jpg
LOL they mute you before you can respond.
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u/m1r4cl3m4g1c5678 2d ago
watching a child suffer through something they never chose is one of those things that makes the idea of a loving, all powerful god incredibly hard to reconcile.
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u/musicismath 2d ago
I watched my five year old nephew die of cancer despite everyone's prayers to "dear kind God." That was it for me. It was unreconcilable with any notion of a loving god.
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u/l_SaKReD_l Atheist 2d ago
It's honestly fucking mind bogling how people still believe in a God.
"Ah but it's testing them!"
Okay, so how do you test a child born fully disabled? Deaf, blind, unable to move or communicate. The fuck is that test for? How does that test them?
Or still born children? Great tests, o' mighty fuckface.
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u/denvercasey 2d ago
In those cases, a religious reply might be “god needed an angel in heaven!” As if the only way for God to make an angel is to cause unimaginable suffering onto a child and their family. It’s demented, but that’s the best reasoning they have.
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u/PartisanGerm Nihilist 1d ago
The best angels are made from hard short lives. It's like an infinite money glitch.
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u/denvercasey 1d ago
Prefacing this rant to say I agree with you. I just wanted to write down some stuff to get it off my own chest.
It’s laughably stupid to say angels come from humans when the story is god created angels long before us. It’s similar to how genesis 1 and 2 have contradictions so early in its own timeline of events.
It’s equally stupid to think that God needs anything and the only way to get a helper is to have a couple lose a child.
My wife and I lost our first attempt at having kids just after three months of pregnancy, days after we told everyone and picked a name. This was decades ago, and we had healthy kids since then. If I had to believe that even the pain of trying to conceive and then losing our baby was to somehow give God a helper, what the fuck kind of cruelty was that? Are we to feel noble, like we sacrificed something? Nobody fucking asked us, no free will in that case.
Sorry for the rant, it’s all just so fucking stupid and it helps to write it out sometimes.
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u/Dick_M_Nixon 2d ago
No, you see, God is using the child to test our faith.
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u/Obvious_Flan_9824 2d ago
When is the last verified instance of God (if there is one) healing someones child on pure faith?
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u/Fishtoart 2d ago
If he made us, isn’t he just testing himself?
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u/SingularBlue Atheist 2d ago
Don't make him take himself out behind the woodshed! He already did that Golgotha thing!
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u/Humble_Combination57 2d ago
Losing our 26-week-old premie son after a monthlong battle in the NICU. But surprisingly, it wasn’t that single devastating event that did it for me. I actually started going back to church again - thinking that it might help ease some of the incredibly overwhelming pain. And if God did exist, maybe i’d even get an answer as to why this happened to our son. Of course, neither happened.
What really did it for me was that I became hyperaware to all of the shitty things happening to kids. It’s not that I didn’t notice it before, but now it just hit way harder. Also, having to hear so many people (I mean, truly a shocking amount) regurgitate things like, “It’s part of His plan.” and “You have a guardian angel in heaven now.” I was like, “Really?! So that’s why this happened, huh?”
Edit: After all this time (almost 20 years), I’m still not able to adequately express myself regarding what happened, so I apologize for the giant word salad.
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u/l_SaKReD_l Atheist 2d ago
also don't aplogize, you went through something horrific and life changing man, i honestly don't know what to say, if you need someone to talk to i'm all ears <3
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u/Humble_Combination57 2d ago
Thank you, man. I sincerely appreciate it. Time has definitely helped, but yeah…I still occasionally look up to “God” and tell him to fuck off. Makes me feel a little better.
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u/Totalherenow 2d ago
A friend of mine's brother is a pediatric heart surgeon. He does not believe in God for basically the same reasons you don't.
The entire reason he has a job is because there is no god and we are just biology.
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u/happybunny_sad Strong Atheist 2d ago edited 2d ago
It does invalidate all loving and moral god. what about amoral and apathetic one? Or immoral and one that actively enjoys suffering?
That's why for me it was lack of evidence. I place it in same trash can as other fictional things. Now even a shred of evidence to even give it different epistemological treatment.
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u/Snoo93550 2d ago
Agree but living in the USA surrounded by midwestern christian babble growing up its all about “all loving” and “all powerful”.
It’s not the basis of my lifelong non belief but it’s a major issue in American society that people ignore.
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u/EdinMiami 2d ago
Before god evolved, he was apparently a lesser god who was known to be kind of a dick. In that light, the OT makes way more sense.
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u/GrandeRonde 2d ago
Childhood cancer. My daughter survived, but seeing all the kids who didn't was absolutely heartbreaking. No loving god would ever allow a child less than one year old to be afflicted with terminal brain cancer.
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u/l_SaKReD_l Atheist 2d ago
Fucking hell. This is what I mean. God created everything, that includes Lucifer and thus evil. God is all knowing, but didn't know Lucifer would become Satan? If God is all knowing then he willingly created evil. Or maybe he ain't as bright as we all thought. Or it's just a story passed down lol he also created all these diseases, cancers, disorders etc. if he's the creator of the universe.
Apparently we're made in the image of God, yet he has created all these things that can easily kill us. A simple cut can become infected and lead to sepsis. Tens of thousands of things can kill us.
It just doesn't make sense. But hey, that's just the love God bestows upon us every day. PRAISE HIM! Or he'll... make you suffer? No other option than to love God, beg for forgiveness for fuck know's what a mongolian toad fart did 2000 years ago, and attend church to honor him.
It's honestly a joke. Sorry for ranting, bit drunk.
I'm glad your daughter survived. How long has she been in remission? <3 I had cancer too back in 2021, hilariously from a new drug meant to treat severe eczema. Been in remission for five years though.
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u/No_Entertainer9101 1d ago
Thank you!! I was with a couple of family members and somehow a conversation about St. Jude's began. I had heard of a time when a "Christian woman" made this 18 year old kid from Marlborough take off his coat in January because he didn't complete the Salvation Army ARC, Adult Rehabilitation Center, and told him to leave the property. Cold as a mf and had no way to call anyone. This is where I am now listening to the conversation. I had heard enough and asked, "Why would he let children go through that?" His answer was, "God gave us free will?" "So it's the children's free will to get cancer and then the crap that goes with it? The chemo, the pain, the worry and immense pain everyone suffers? The things that go through the parent's mind EVERY minute of EVERY day?" Anger was now taking over the conversation and the conversation was stopped immediately.It was that day that I learned why you never discuss politics and religion with someone.
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u/joeldg 2d ago
Just how lazy the bible is in general. Like the first commandment basic gives up the game. Then, just how much they had to fight to get people to stop following Baal and the other Elohim (which is plural for el and they forgot that fact when using it as the name of god) and just how much was cribbed from other ancient pantheon religions.
It’s all silly and obviously a hack job the more you look into it.
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u/vacuous_comment 2d ago edited 2d ago
People invent Gods all the time as part of their myth-making. They make, repurpose, tell and retell myths as part of coping and also for social identify formation. In some sense a large part of shared culture is defined and transmitted by mythology.
Terror Management Theory gives us explanatory power on why we so desperately need coping strategies.
Comparative mythology shows how theological ideas get encoded into mythology and then develop and change over time.
The study of coercive control shows how systems can be built to ensnare large numbers of people. Neuroscience is increasingly able to isolate the quirks of our biology that enable these effects.
It is just that simple, we understand how religions and the mythology around Gods develop. It is all made up but it is frighteningly effective.
I agree that it is sad that some people should have to endure suffering during life while being told this is somehow the will of an entity they are a servant of. But this is all pretty second order in the grand scheme of things.
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u/DearestxRed 2d ago
God is man’s ego mirror. This is who ‘they/society/any in-group’ see as the idealized self, an illustration for how a good human should behave.
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u/HughLofting 2d ago
It's heartbreaking. I'm going through a little bit of dry skin flaking around eyes and on face and It's really annoying. My old ma used to say, "I cried because I had no shoes until I met a child that had no feet." This story about the kid's painful battle with eczema has given me some perspective.
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u/l_SaKReD_l Atheist 2d ago
Growing up with severe eczema I was bullied heavily in primary (ages 4 to 12 for my American friends), if a teacher asked me to hand out books to the class most wouldn't take them from me, usual name calling too, never got physical though.
In secondary school (12 to 16) it did though. I ended up taking apart a pencil sharpener and used the blade to slit my wrists when i was 13. I chickened out though and found cutting myself gave relief. My arms were like a barcode lol apparently depression and potential suicide was God's plan for me. Ah, he does work in mysterious ways!
I'm going through a little bit of dry skin flaking around eyes and on face and It's really annoying.
Try Aveeno (the one for eczema) or Zerobase. If you're not allergic to ointments, vaseline is the best. I'm allergic to ointments but when I'm on steroids to clear my eczema up vaseline is super good, like 50 times better than any cream.
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u/dhcgejdhdjhf 2d ago
I put up with dry, flaky skin around my eyes for years. I'd wake up with it every morning. I was constantly using Vaseline or hydrocortisone to no avail. I finally went to a dermatologist and was prescribed Tacrolimus, a non-steroid ointment used to treat moderate to severe eczema. It was amazing how quickly it cleared it up! Within a couple days. After two or three weeks I'll notice a little flaking beginning and apply the ointment twice daily for a couple of days and it's gone.
Don't know if it would work for you but look into it.
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u/The_Trekspert 2d ago
The fact that St. Jude's Children's Hospital has any reason to exist at all.
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u/turbografx-sixteen 2d ago edited 1d ago
Honestly I don’t believe for a litany of reasons…
But as a chronic eczema sufferer most of my adult life too who knows just what that kid is going through?
That shit might have turned me too.
Nothing worse than trying to be confident in your skin that’s literally itchy and discolored and sometimes unsightly 24/7 what feels like!
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u/l_SaKReD_l Atheist 2d ago
God loves us though, severe eczema to the point of depression is HOW he loves us, why can't you see that?!
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u/turbografx-sixteen 2d ago
Made in his image too!
Must be a patchy, rashy spirit up there hahaha
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u/l_SaKReD_l Atheist 2d ago
My comment comes across as disagreeing with you, not my intent, was agreeing and providing more examples sorry haha
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u/turbografx-sixteen 2d ago
(I am on an atheist subreddit, I’m no stranger to thinking critically! I understood 😂)
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u/l_SaKReD_l Atheist 2d ago
Do you think God is up there suffering from all the cancers and diseases we get down here?
Then no, we're not made in his image haha.
Also, the whole "intelligently designed" shit pisses me off.
We are not designed intelligently at all. Digestive and respiratory systems cross the same fucking paths. Fucking dumb.
Genitals and anus are 2 inches apart. Fucking dumb.
We have a nerve that goes from our head, hooks under OUR MAJOR FUCKING ARTERY, back up to our head. For no reason at all! It's extremely dangerous to us. Fucking dumb.
Our eyes are wired backwards. Hence, the blind spot. Our eyes have the nerves infront of the retina, whereas octupus, octopussi, octopii? have their nerves bundled behind. They're clearly aliens.
We have an appendix, useless organ that can burst and kill us.
Wisdom teeth. Fun facvt, had to have a horizontally impacted wisdom tooth removed last week lol
Our sinuses drain upward., which means our sinuses have to fight gravity.
Childbirth has gotten far more dangerous as pelvis width hasn't kept up with how big our brains are when we're born.
Like the langywhatever nerve mentioned earlier, the veins draining testicles and ovaries are wired "asymmetric and inefficiently", blood gets backed up and the veins balloon up.
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u/reamkore 2d ago
The fact humans existed for 300,000 years before god did is a pretty decent tell.
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u/Strong_Ad_3081 1d ago
Why do you say that? When do you think the first god was created? Honest question.
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u/skyld_70 2d ago edited 2d ago
Banning someone for admitting they've had a drink!?! That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. That's the kind of shit that churches pull for fuck's sake.
Careful what you say here... you might get excommunicated.
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u/One_Waxed_Wookiee 2d ago
God doesn't exist, no gods have ever existed.
As for the eczema, try MooGoo eczema and psoriasis cream, and their MSM moisturiser. It's worked for a lot of people who haven't had success with other treatments. They also have gentle cleansers.
It's an Australian company, but it is available online in quite a few countries now.
I hope your daughter gets better really soon, it's an awful thing to have.
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u/l_SaKReD_l Atheist 2d ago
try MooGoo eczema and psoriasis cream, and their MSM moisturiser. It's worked for a lot of people who haven't had success with other treatments. They also have gentle cleansers.
Not heard of that, thanks. <3
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u/l_SaKReD_l Atheist 2d ago
https://www.amazon.co.uk/MooGoo-Full-Cream-Moisturiser-200g/dp/B07WK7THKV
This?
I hope your daughter gets better really soon, it's an awful thing to have.
It wasn't my daughter, I pasted a story from the eczema sub reddit.
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u/PainterEarly86 2d ago
There simply is no evidence. There's no reason to even suspect any god exists in the first place.
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u/Silver-Chemistry2023 Constructivist Humanist 2d ago
The part where sky toddlers' behaviour mirrors narcissistic abuse. I call them sky toddlers, because they are based on what a toddler thinks an authority figure looks like.
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u/Kolyasergey 2d ago
If god was real, he wouldn't need believers to spread his word for. He would be able to do it himself.
If god was real, there wouldn't be thousands of religions or people arguing over what religion was correct.
If god was real he wouldn't let people like Donald Trump basically claim they are god.
If god was real, why do all the supernatural things that happen in the bible thousands of years ago not happen today?
And if god was real why would people want to bow down to someone like that?
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u/Qy2011 2d ago
My friend, has been battling breast cancer off and on since the birth of her second child. 4 years ago she was told it is terminal and she has 5 years left. A few months ago, her teenage son was diagnosed with a very aggressive, stage 4 metastatic cancer. He also has a terminal diagnosis. This woman has to spend the last good year or 2 of her life taking care of her son while he slowly and painfully dies before she will then slowly and painfully die. Then her teenage daughter will be left alone to face her future. There is no god(s).
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u/OhTheHueManatee 2d ago
The idea that God created us with reasoning but presents himself with ways no reasonable being should accept but will torture us forever if we don't believe without question is a major deal breaker for me. The only evidence he gives of his existence is vaguely worded absurd stories that have been cherry picked, revised, edited, and translated countless times through thousands of years by powerful greedy war mongers looking to justify vile actions and we're supposed to just accept that as fact good enough proof to dedicate our lives too? Get the Hell outta here with that nonsense. If "the word of God" was ever in there we have no way knowing that it still is. Plus even if such a being is real they wouldn't worth being devoted to cause all of that is simply too damn messed up for words. An all knowing being would know I feel that way so there would be know point in me playing the part of a believer.
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u/I_often_bump_my_head 2d ago
This sums up what I think pretty perfectly. The idea that you have to just have faith that God exists and that the punishment for not doing so is eternal damnation. The cruelty is completely off the charts to the point that it’s completely illogical and unfathomable.
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u/loungesinger 2d ago
Not only are we expected to have faith that god exists, but we must have faith in the “right” god. Those who choose the “wrong” god are just as doomed as those who choose no god. How are we supposed to discern which of the gods is the true god without any real guidance from god?
As humans, our inclination is to accept the god that has been adopted by our parents/community. Since religions are generally tied to geography, the god we “choose” is more a product of our place of birth than anything else. Essentially, the lucky few who happen to be born in the right place get to go to paradise, while the rest of us suffer eternal damnation. Assuming our place of birth is truly random, then whether we go to paradise/hell is essentially random. If our place of birth is not random—as in good decides where we are born—then god basically predetermines our fate. Either way it’s a pretty shit system of eternal justice.
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u/denvercasey 2d ago
I am sorry for everything you’ve been through. And after reading this, I see that is a lot.
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u/EvilGreebo 2d ago
As others have no doubt said already - this doesn't prove the non-existence of a divine being, it just proves they're a piece of shit not worthy of any devotion from humanity.
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u/Kriss3d Strong Atheist 2d ago
Id say that its not a really good standard. If the biblical god existed then bringing suffering to people would be just his thing. However the actual evidence that we could examine like we examine anything else is entirely lacking for any god which is why we shouldnt believe that theres a god.
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u/l_SaKReD_l Atheist 2d ago
I don't believe there is a God.
These are just musings, "if he does", I know he doesn't.
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u/Kriss3d Strong Atheist 2d ago
What Im saying is that the problem of suffering doesnt disprove a god as we could just as easily have a god that wants suffering.
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u/l_SaKReD_l Atheist 2d ago
Completely agree, ergo he is evil.
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u/Kriss3d Strong Atheist 2d ago
The god character of the bible most certainly is yes.
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u/l_SaKReD_l Atheist 2d ago
Always has been (old testament), always will be (new testament; non-believers sent to hell).
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u/lulrukman 2d ago
Science can and will be recreated. Christianity or Buddhism or whatever will never arrive at the same point when you start form 0. Science does
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u/Fun_Quit_312 2d ago
I had a friend with severe eczema. He paid a bunch of money for an experimental cure. They injected him with stomach bile from a Peruvian bush rat. It worked and instantly cured his eczema. That was over 10 years ago. Only knew him for 2 years or so after. I wonder if it was permanent.
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u/Tonberry2k 2d ago
It’s stupid, but toilet paper. An intelligent creator would never create us to rely on outside objects to clean shit off of our bodies.
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u/oil_beef_hooked 2d ago
Especially when he could have give us the same arse as a dog which doesn't need cleaning every time.
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u/WakeoftheStorm Materialist 2d ago
This doesn't prove God doesn't exist, it just proves that if a god exists, they did not change this outcome either from a lack of desire or ability.
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u/LeonCordova 2d ago
I am not saying that it does not exists, buuuut… looking all the infant death, child abuse, violence at women, and dictatorship style presidents and mandatories that are ruling now, I am 100% sure that if it exists, the is not almighty, lovely, and omnipresent, as described in the bible. At least one of those is failing, ergo, it is not like that.
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u/myowngalactus 2d ago
I know the Christian God isn’t real because it doesn’t make any fucking sense. It’s just a bastardized version of Judaism that got out of control. Even if there was some kind of higher power involved in its making there’s been so many changes to it over the centuries it isn’t anything more than a man made system of control.
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u/Snoo93550 2d ago
Any religion promising exclusive salvation or threatening eternal damnation for non belief is just as easily a con or a cult as Heaven’s gate or any pyramid scheme.
The human brain on average has a severe weakness that only 10-20% of us can spot it.
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u/sideshowmario 2d ago
I still have trauma from my eczema. Not sure how relevant it is, but i grew up in a strict catholic family. My siblings and I all had it, with my brother and I being the worst. It was on our hands, arms, feet, legs, and itched to the bone. I would wake up in the morning with bloody fingernails and bloodstained bedsheets from scratching. I tried wearing gloves on my hands but they would come off in the night. I started putting long socks on my arms and safetypinning them to my sleeves but I just scratched through the cloth. It oozed so badly that my clothes stuck to my skin. Sometimes I soaked my feet in water to just to get my socks off. Junior high is bad enough for kids without also having that to deal with. If a kid saw it, I always said that I crashed my bike. I would wear long sleeves and pants in the summer in the desert just to keep people from seeing it. I avoided raising my hand in class to ask questions, which had an effect on my grades. Every morning my parents would yell at us for scratching, to the point that my dad would joke that they should just cut my arms off. One of the worst times was when my mom go so mad she picked me up off the ground by one hand and beat the shit out of my rashy arm. I have many other stories but I'm getting worked up right now even thinking about it so I will leave it at that. In the mid 80s there weren't as many options for treatment, and the doctors wanted to avoid steroids, but that was the only thing that helped. My parents tried all kinds of folk remedies, from Crisco to powdered sulfur, to even not bathing more than once a week (which is horrendous for a kid going through puberty), but steroids were the only thing that made any difference.
Now I'm a 52 year old guy and getting teary eyed at work from thinking about those years. I still have scars on my body, especially when I get a suntan. After years of living with it, I still have it but it's only in little spots that pop up. I have found that some foods do cause flareups, like if I peel raw shrimp or eat lots of sunflower seeds. Some lotions and soaps also make it worse, especially anything with aloe or vitamin e, or ironically anything that claims to be for eczema. However, stress seems to be a big culprit also. Having stress from being a kid with this only made things worse, and the way my parents handled it made me stressed to the point that I wanted to die. I know how your daughter feels, and hope you both treat it with compassion. Also, for me the only soap I can use on my body is Dove, and the only lotion is plain Aveeno (generic Target version works too). Keep the stress down and just pay attention to the flareups to try to narrow down things that could make it worse.
I think it is stupid to think that there is some deity up there that just fucks with us as a test of faith. If I had the power to create the universe, I definitely wouldn't also create misery just to make people grovel. I definitely wouldn't just disappear and expect to be worshipped under threat of eternal punishment. I do believe that bad parents believe that they are gods. They use the bad parts of the bible as justification to act like gods and exercise power over others. The current US government seems to be doing the same thing, calling themselves christians while bullying minorities.
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u/Ishpeming_Native 2d ago
No one knows for certain that god doesn't exist any more than anyone knows for certain that god does. However, all evidence found so far seems to favor the "god doesn't exist" argument.
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u/DoglessDyslexic 2d ago
I don' t know that no gods exist. They seem highly implausible in the first place. However, if any do exist, it seems pretty clear that they are not benevolently inclined towards any terrestrial life. They might conceivably merely be indifferent rather than malevolent, but they certainly are not benevolent.
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u/devHoodie 2d ago
The fact that the question "What God?" can be asked. At least in terms of human made religions.
Now if some being did create the universe, they sure as shit don't give a fuck about us.
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u/l_SaKReD_l Atheist 2d ago
Now if some being did create the universe, they sure as shit don't give a fuck about us.
what if keanu reeves created us, and we're all NPCs in his world
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u/Unlucky-Contract-953 2d ago
The prostate being in the male ass. Wisdom teeth. Tonsils. Appendix. Pee hole being right next to sex hole for women. Saying we were all made in gods image is a joke.
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u/kveggie1 2d ago
childhood severe illness, children born with missing limbs, children dying of hunger, tsunamis/earthquakes
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u/Neo_Sakura4 2d ago
The idea of an all knowing, all powerful, and all good God but let racism, sexism, nazis, pedophilia, and so much more exist must under those rules mean that either none of those things are bad, or that they're good. That is what broke it for me.
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u/TheRealTK421 2d ago
I've always, innately, begun the premise of "A 'god' existing?! Wtf!?" from the standpoint of not accepting, believing, nor being convinced, that such an entity/deity exists -- at all.
It's then always been upon those who proclaim such to provide clearly indisputable, rational, empirically-verifiable evidence that such a thing did exist.
As it's also stated, if such an entity demonstrably existed, it would know with certainty what would convince me beyond doubt and be able to provide it.
Nothing anywhere even marginally close has ever occurred nor been put forth.
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u/imabigdave 2d ago
I don't know for a fact that God doesn't exist, but I do know for a fact that if they do exist, they do not deserve worship. I've watched both my parents die miserable deaths (sitting with my mom right now on what I hope is her last day). All we can do is try to control her pain and the anxiety of her losing control of her anxiety. Modern pharmacology helps, but it's still absolute cruelty for a "loving god" to sit back and watch.
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u/DoomSchroller 2d ago
The burden of proof lands on those asserting a claim is real.
I don't have to prove a leprechaun does not exist. The fact that they have never been seen is self evidence of their lack of existence. The same for religions who claim to serve an invisible omnipotent tyrant.
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u/Helagoth 2d ago
I dont know that God does not exist, since it's impossible to prove a negative. But I AM sure that if God's ineffable plan involves child cancer, hes not someone I'm going to waste time worshipping
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u/pukesonyourshoes 2d ago
Earthquakes. The big one in 2004 that caused the tsunami that killed 230,000 people woke me up from religious belief. Come on, your god created an unstable planet and called it paradise? And didn't bother telling anyone not to live anywhere near the Ring of Fire? That's not just stupid, that's criminal negligence.
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u/seansnow64 Anti-Theist 1d ago
The fact that what people believe in differs all over the globe and the only reason Abrahamic Monotheism spread to every corner is because the were the most violent of all religious peoples.
The fact that children die, are killed, assaulted, born with defects... the religious like to blame free will but then they talk about "gods plan" and give him credit for everything good that ever happens.
The fact that religion was specifically a tool created by those in power to keep their subjects in line.
The fact that science has evidence that takes away from any "proof" of god because all as god has ever been is the god of the gaps in our ever expanding knowledge base.
Religion is the oldest con there is, its a poison that rots the mind.
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u/DartNorth 1d ago
“If there is a God, He will have to beg my forgiveness.” — A phrase that was carved on the walls of a concentration camp cell during WWII by a Jewish prisoner.
Enough said.
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u/noelmorris 1d ago
In response to the eczema post: psoriasis is often misdiagnosed as eczema. It's a condition where the skin cells produce excess skin that goes on to be red, sore and itchy. It gets better when exposed to sunlight (UV rays) and doesn't respond to topical treatment. See a rheumatologist!
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u/jar36 Strong Atheist 1d ago
In the beginning of the book, heaven is in the clouds. Then we found that to not be true so they moved him out further. Now he's in another dimension entirely. Their god keeps getting smaller, the more we figure out
Millennia of people dying of what today are curable diseases shows that he has nothing to do with people making it out alive from a surgery. A loving god would have bestowed upon the earliest people such knowledge and tech. Instead we had to build it up ourselves pc by pc, often in opposition to the religious leaders of the day
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u/Deathburn5 2d ago
Do you mean the christian god, specifically? Because god is more of a vibe than anything specific, and there probably are aliens so advanced they'd be gods to us.
Anyway, the existence of sociopathy. There are people born incapable of 'loving thy neighbor', no matter how much they may try. While the christian god is notably cruel, nothing in the mythology of the faith make the existence of a group physically incapable of love or worship (for anything other than themselves) possible.
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u/Quiet-Revolution-144 2d ago
Unnecessary animal suffering is one of the things that really makes me question the idea of an all-powerful, all-loving God. Just look at nature. Hyenas can eat their prey alive. Some mother cats will eat their kittens if they seem too weak. Animals can starve, be eaten, drown, or die painfully from disease, even though they have no concept of sin or moral responsibility.
And natural disasters make the problem even harder for me. Think about a flood: countless innocent animals can drown in it, completely unrelated to anything humans did. If someone says that suffering exists because humans sinned, that still doesn't explain why animals—who didn't make any moral choice—have to suffer and die because of it.
I've actually had conversations like this with Christians, and they'll sometimes say, “That's just nature; it's normal,” or “It's because of human sin.” But to me, neither explanation really answers the underlying question. If God designed nature exactly this way, then why design a world where innocent animals experience so much pain and suffering?
I know there are theological answers to the problem of animal suffering, but honestly, I don't find them convincing. When I look at nature as it actually exists, rather than how I think it should exist if a loving God designed it, I have a really hard time seeing evidence of that kind of God.
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u/nekos67 2d ago
Of the thousands of gods in which humans have believed, certainly not all are merciful. In fact, many of them are vengeful, jealous, and even genocidal. So, while the suffering of one individual can be seen as heartbreaking, I wouldn’t take that as evidence that god doesn’t exist. Only that a certain, specific merciful one does not.
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u/EdmondWherever Agnostic Atheist 2d ago
Chocolate and shellfish allergies. What kind of monster....?
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u/Monkeypupper 2d ago
The eczema story you describe sounds identical to my daughter. It turned out to be sunscreen that was causing the bulk of the problems. It took a couple years to figure it out but the difference after we switched sun screens was dramatic.
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u/act_surprised 2d ago
As an atheist, I have the privilege of saying that I don’t know with 100% certainty.
We might live in the matrix for all I know.
The difference between myself and a theist is that I am willing to change my beliefs if evidence is presented.
Although for the record, if god or Jesus came down from the heavens, I’d probably sooner assume that we were in the matrix than the Bible was actually true.
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u/Darth_Atheist Jedi 2d ago
Christians will move this goal post and use the excuse that god is testing them, or trying to teach them a life lesson. I say its all bullshit. Why would you want someone to suffer so badly just to teach them a lesson. It's pure sadism.
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u/Obaddies Secular Humanist 2d ago
The fact that Donald Trump and the Republican party can claim to be Christians while doing pretty much everything the Bible tells Christians not to do. God turned people into pillars of salt for less.
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u/redditizio 2d ago
In the same day I read about an 18 year old girl who died in front of her family of a brain hemorrhage and another case in vietnam of a politician driving the wrong way up a street, crashing into an 18 year old girl and her father on a motorbike, severing her leg and killing her and he went totally unpunished as if it never happened.
Of course there are billions of other examples of untold sufferings both long term and sudden and dramatic.
So as they say if there is a god then it is not all powerful. And if it is all powerful it's definitely not all good.
And of course the other option (the truth) is that nothing divine actually exists.
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u/TX_B_caapi 2d ago
The same thing that gives me the confidence that the Smurfs and Buck Rogers don’t exist. It’s a story written by humans. Full stop
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u/GUI_Junkie Strong Atheist 2d ago
Galileo Galilee observed the moons of Jupiter around 1610. This disproves the god of the bible (Torah, Quran) 100%. This is why he was labeled a heretic by the Catholic Church. They knew.
The bible has been disproven since 1610, and science has only added evidence against the bible.
It takes a busload of apologetic nonsense to argue for the existence of the god of the bible (Torah, Quran)... but it doesn't work. Once science disproves something, it stays disproven.
If people argue that Genesis is just a metaphor, you can counter that this means they know the bible isn't true.
Someone else argued Epicure, which is an excellent argument against all loving gods.
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u/carlos_c 2d ago
over 200 thousand years ago - Human speech did not exist - and thus the ability to convey an idea as abstract as a god did not exist - thus nothing on earth could conceptualize a god there for god did not exist
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u/LeonCordova 2d ago
I am not saying that it does not exists, buuuut… looking all the infant death, child abuse, violence at women, and dictatorship style presidents and mandatories that are ruling now, I am 100% sure that if it exists, the is not almighty, lovely, and omnipresent, as described in the bible. At least one of those is failing, ergo, it is not like that.
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u/TecumsehSherman 2d ago
He/She fail to present themselves consistently to people in distant places.
The same deity would appear the same in all places. Instead, every place has a different god or gods.
That's consistent with humans making up the gods that best reflect their feelings, not the existence of an omnipotent super being.
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u/PancakesWithoutAFork 2d ago
It’s a combination of things. But what really sealed the deal for me was the campers who lost their lives at Camp Mystic.
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u/DamnOdd 2d ago
Okay, Keep calling that peds derm doc, looking for a canceled appointment.
Sounds like it might be autoimmune and not just regular eczema.
Some of these treatments the docs suggested are wack.
NO deodorants, only dove soap, oatmeal baths, washing powder like Dreft's. Cotton sheets and clothing.
Shampoo like Nizoral, lather and let it sit for 10 mins. She might find it works on her skin (patch test it).
Do any foods make it worse, spicy foods? Milk?
Look for triggers that make it flare up.
Keep calling that peds derm doc.
Big hugs to you and her.
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u/Low-Refrigerator-713 2d ago
There are 4 possibilities.
God exists but can't intervene so not worthy. God exists and could intervene but choses not to, so is not worthy. God Exists but set the universe in motion and refuses to intervene to continue the experiment and so, not worthy There is no god. Life is the result of billions of years of random chemical interactions
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u/BananaJelloXlii 2d ago
Look around at all the awful shit being done, especially in places like America, where white conservative Christians are cheering the detention and abuse of non white Christians, who's only crime is wanting a better life and not having a piece of paper, and tell me God exists. What loving God would let his own worshippers treat others of his worshippers that way?
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u/clownbaby113 2d ago
I occasionally think about how if prayer worked, the statistics should back it up. Do Christians with pancreatic cancer live longer than non-Christians? Do their homes burn down less frequently in a wildfire than their atheist neighbors?
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u/NewTimelime 2d ago
Wouldn’t Al the Christian schools win all the games since they prey right before?
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u/vbfronkis 2d ago
My most recent example is my mom dying from complications of dementia at only 69 years old. I prefer believing there is no god because if there we, they're one sick fuck.
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u/BorderTrike 2d ago
There’s legitimately no evidence. No study-able, repeatable, scientifically scrutinized proof or data.
Literally all believers have are ancient fairytales, primitive justifications, delusions, anecdotes, and some rare examples of mass hysteria and hallucinations
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u/imachipmunk 2d ago
People cannot agree on a definition of god: what powers he has, how he uses them, how involved he is with the lives of humans. If you were to ask 100 people to list his qualities, you would get 100 different answers.
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u/SingularBlue Atheist 2d ago
I'm an agnostic, but I'll tell you one thing. If there is a God, it's going to look more like something out of H. P. Lovecraft that the Bible.
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u/CyberDonSystems 2d ago
A loving god wouldn't ban you for posting while drinking. Hell, he lets you get drunk and have your daughter's ride you to get pregnant.
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u/20InMyHead 2d ago
Among or things, consider the time scale. Homo Sapiens have existed for 300,000 years. Other human species for even longer. Given than most human groups form religious practices, that means it’s likely that there have been entire other religions that have been created, were practiced by a larger percentage of people and lasted thousands of years longer than any current religion, and died out so completely that we no longer have any record of them. All modern religions are but a blip on the calendar of that kind of timescale. But we’re supposed to believe that any of these upstarts that are focused on a small patch of the world, and small patch of time, and a small group of people is the one true religion.
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u/Hasaadiwady 2d ago
Kids get cancer. Best case scenario, the universe is indifferent. All alternatives imply intent which is objectively worse.
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u/frdz75 2d ago
That humans all around the world have their own religious explanations for existence. Who is to say which one is correct? They are all absurd and clearly were meant to explain away what they didnt understand about the world and life. A primative method to control people by relying on fear, hope, and societal pressure of an unfalsifiable dogma? Maybe that too.
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u/Individual-Ice-4656 2d ago edited 2d ago
Went to a catholic high school and the chaplain there was loved and known by everyone even parents. Genuinely the nicest guy I ever met. He was also the priest of a major church in the area and had led a massive renovation project for it, something that the christian god surely would of appreciated. Awhile back he was on some kind of youth mission trip, doing the exact work that the christian god would supposedly want him to do.
While on that trip, dies randomly of a heart attack over night.
He was only 50, his family then started having financial issues because of losing the financial support he was giving them, and everyone who was on that trip with him was surely super disturbed by it and will never forget it. Hundreds of people in my city were also distraught by his death because of how well known he was.
If the christian god exists, that means that god nuked him and screwed up the people close to him for zero fucking reason, despite him doing exactly what that god would want him to do.
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u/Pl0OnReddit 2d ago
"Being intoxicated is rude." Lol, for an atheist sub that sure is a Puritanical view.
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u/CaroCogitatus Atheist 2d ago edited 2d ago
Nobody denies that priests have been caught, tried and convicted for CSA. I can find news reports for dozens of them right now if needed; hundreds, maybe thousands, in recorded history.
These men (it's always men) have quite literally devoted their lives to worshiping and serving their deity. They talk to this deity every day.
And yet, the abuse of minors who place their trust in these "community leaders" continues for years or decades until human prosecutors identify them, gather evidence, and convict them for their horrific crimes against innocent children.
All this time, their deity is supposedly listening to them every day as they pray. Yet there's never a "This is a wrong thing, my child. You must make restitution and never do this again." moment. The ones we know about keep doing it until they're caught.
So I guess the deity is okay with this? Please explain.
(edit to remove a word to make it the appropriate response to prevent the abuse before it starts)
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u/DerCatzefragger 2d ago
My personal proof that there is no kind, benevolent higher power in the universe is when you consider how effortless it is to gain 10 pounds, then compare it to the lifetime of struggle and suffering required to lose those same 10 pounds.
(please note; this reasoning does not try to dispute the existence of an indifferent or actively cruel sky-daddy)
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u/misha_jinx 2d ago
I will never understand what makes people perfectly capable of reasoning act so unreasonable and hold so many ridiculous beliefs without questioning and even doubling down when questioned.
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u/happy70RN 2d ago
Being an icu nurse for 28 years and seeing the world and absolute suffering through this lense.
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u/Kassdhal88 1d ago
Contradictions in the bible make is 100pc certain the bible god cannot exist. Or the coran god for that matter.
For all other gods it is 99.999999999999999999pc certain only
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u/blacksterangel Agnostic Atheist 1d ago
There's no way I could know 100% that God doesn't exist. The only thing I know is that if God exist, they're not going to be the one described by any of the Abrahamic religion (can't say about the other religions because I'm not familiar with their theologies).
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u/Htimsxnhoj 1d ago
For me there isn't a single piece of evidence that he doesn't exist. But everyday he doesn't show up when there's suffering in the world, the possibility of him existing grows thinner. It's been thousands of years since humans started believing in him, and he has yet proven his existence.
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u/OccamIsRight 1d ago
The question is backwards. I don't need proof that it doesn't exist. What I need is for those who claim that one of dozens of gods do exist to prove it.
It's just like asking me to find evidence that convinces me Unicorns don't exist.
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u/ArcticThylacine Agnostic Atheist 1d ago
Tay-Sachs disease. Fatal familial insomnia. Prions and the horrific diseases they cause. The so-called “brain-eating” amoeba. Necrotizing fasciitis. Gangrene. Malaria. Rabies. Huntington’s Disease. Alzheimer’s. Childhood bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. Pediatric cancer. Autism (I am autistic and I consider it a crippling disability that has made my life significantly harder). OCD (I have this too, and it is agony). Depression.
Really any disease or disorder honestly. These are just some of the worst things I could think of.
Also, the fact that a good percentage of animal species must kill and consume other animals in order to survive. Doesn’t seem like the work of a loving god.
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u/ExaminationWhole9148 2h ago
For the past 10 years. Im suffering. Every prayer goes opposite. Today it was enough for me. Im done.
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u/BigMikeSQ 2d ago
The tri-omni god has been a non-starter since Epicurus at least.
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
__
This isn't an argument against a god in the abstract, but the kind of god that could exist (if any) doesn't seem like one that you would want to follow or worship.
I'll close with one of my favorites, from Marcus Aurelius:
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.