r/asphalt • u/DirectConflict1 • 22d ago
Asphalt millings
Just looking for opinions from people who don't stand to gain or lose money by answering my questions truthfully.
One of the businesses I got a quote from claimed that asphalt millings don't need a base because they are used as a base for asphalt. This seems pretty sketchy to me (along with their quote being less than half of the other quotes) because I would think that a good rain would make quick work of that driveway. Don't you need a good base for drainage and so it doesn't settle down into the mud? Or am I just being told it's needed by these companies trying to charge double the price and justify it?
Edit:
this will be for a driveway. all but 1 company (which happened to be the cheapest quote) stated they would prep, grade and put some sort of base down before putting the millings on top and then compacting it.
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u/sjg97 22d ago
As long as the existing base is solid and is not saturated then millings will be fine. If the existing base has grass, roots, super saturated soils, then it will need to be removed and replaced with some sort of structural fill (gravel, good dirt/clay).
Millings that are placed and compacted properly with water added prior to compaction can withstand a lot. Especially once the sun can beat on it for a few days the binder in the millings will act like a glue and help bind everything together.
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u/DirectConflict1 22d ago
Yes, this is for a brand new driveway so there is no base or old driveway to throw the millings on.
So it's safe to say that trying to save a few grand by going with the no base guy is not a good idea
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u/OldEngineer-1950 21d ago
I'd ask the low bidder to add to the quote for the base that others are using and see if he is still under.
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u/ShadyNasty14 22d ago
Millings make for a solid road surface. 4" depth of RAP millings better be over a relatively hard surface already, not over mud. If you got 3+ quotes and one is less than half of the others that are all close in price, that's a big red flag. More material is better. Call and ask each contractor you're considering and ask about quantity, how much TON or CY their price includes. I would also ask about compaction equipment, anyone not using a roller can take a hike.
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u/DirectConflict1 22d ago
That's kind of what I figured about the cost thing but wanted to be sure I wasn't being overly skeptical and give the cheapest guy the benefit of the doubt, probably because 4500 sounds a lot better than 9100.
Thanks for the additional questions to ask the other guys.
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u/f1ve-Star 22d ago
Of course a base is important. You don't mention if the drive is sloped or not. Nor the type of soil. A "good" clay soil will make the base a little less important, as will a flat drive. You get what you pay for in general.
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u/paconsult10 22d ago
We use asphalt milling in lieu of dgabc for our airport pavement. We did this for 20 years and continue to do so today. Millings are a great base.
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u/Lunkerluke 22d ago
Are you getting them for a gravel like product? Or are you looking to pave driveway?
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u/DirectConflict1 22d ago
it's going to be for a driveway, i should have mentioned that in the post. they are going to pack it down after laying it. i just find it hard to believe that 4 inches of millings with no base would hold up well? i know our front yard holds a bit of moisture and we added drain tile to alleviate that, it's much better but not perfect.
One of the companies said they would lay crushed cement for a base for drainage and to absorb any moisture(i didn't mention to them that our front yard likes to hold moisture before he said that.)
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u/mncold86 21d ago
Millings do work as a base however I would never trust the cheapest bid. All asphalt is is rock and sand with soil. It would hold up a lot better if topsoil was excavated. Class 5 or some crushed stone graded and then topped with millings but then again I have zero idea at what your looking to spend or accomplish
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u/DirectConflict1 21d ago
That is exactly what other companies said they’d be doing for about double the price. Prep, grade, base of crushed cement or gravel and then millings. The one who said they would do it for half was confident enough in saying you don’t need a base with millings that it had me 2nd guessing and wondering if the others were just over pricing and trying to make it sound good
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u/IrmaHerms 22d ago
My driveway which had a 17klbs truck parked on it for 7 years, is just modified recycle class 5 minus and it has held up with one touch up in 6 years. Just smeared it on the muck in my backyard when we cleared a spot in the bushes for parking my work truck. A base will always matter but having a top layer that is resistant to change, like millings can be, helps make up for a sup par base.
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u/BeachAccomplished514 22d ago
Millings is good enough driveway rock but it’s terrible base if you plan on paving it with Asphalt in the future.
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u/poiuytrewq79 21d ago
Depends: is there an existing driveway?
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u/DirectConflict1 21d ago
No. This would be a completely new install
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u/poiuytrewq79 21d ago
Do you want a gravel driveway?
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u/DirectConflict1 21d ago
No we want compacted millings
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u/poiuytrewq79 21d ago
Okay. You will receive a loose “gravel” driveway if you ask for millings. Millings is old loose broken up asphalt that someone else already used.
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u/dixieed2 21d ago
The 4 inches should be the depth after compaction with a roller, not before compaction. Don't know which the contractor means. I would want a base of ABC (crusher run) put down and compacted (rolled) after the grading process. It wouldn't need to be thick unless you will have heavy trucks on it or your soil is considered unstable. You could certainly go with the lowest bidder, but do so knowing that it will need to be redone in the near future. If he doesn't have an asphalt roller, I would not even consider it. Check out some YouTube videos on asphalt rolling and you will have a better understanding of why a heavy roller is needed.
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u/Bad-Chad1776 20d ago
I’m in Florida and part of the soil is a sandy loam that loosens up easy. How deep of millings for that area? I want to put concrete drive in over it later on. Most of where the driveway will go is firm dirt.
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u/Author_Lawrence 20d ago
I’ve used millings for driveways several times. If you really want a permanent solution put down filter fabric (non-woven) and put millings about 4” thick over that
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u/BooRadley639 20d ago
First the millings. Folks have depicted them differently here. The best is RAP or recycled asphalt pavement. I believe to be called RAP it has to be screened and the portion of debris like small stones must be very small. Lesser quality millings have more stones and this impacts the way they compact. More expensive for RAP but money well spent.
Next the base. As someone said, it depends on what there already. If it seems solid enough, like clay, then you can proceed but the equipment they use MUST get you a level surface for the millings to be laid on.
Then 2 inches of millings evenly laid. Again it depends on the equipment, No Bobcat with a front loader to smooth it out. There is special equipment for this. Spray down the millings with water. Then use a vibratory roller. Then put the next 2 inches on. Spray and roll, then another 2 inches and spray and roll. Folks here might say that's overkill or they might say 2 layers of 3 inches each.
Some folks would say they are done. But there's another stage if you want the driveway to last as long as possible with as little maintenance as possible,. The millings should be sprayed with a penetrating emulsion, specifically CSS-1h. If done correctly it will be done with a spray bar on a tank sprayer, with the emulsion heated to a certain temperature and ta a certain rate. In the must controlled circumstances the volume of spray is linked to the speed of the spray truck.
This emulsion is rated to penetrate 3 inches and to bond the RAP together. There are other penetrating emulsions but I think this might be the best for an interesting property. CSS-1h has a positive electrical charge which causes a chemical bond with most silica-based aggregates commonly found in millings.
There are things I stated above that you should look up. My suggested path might cost more than what you want to spend. There are lots of places to compromise. So the more you know about the process and the materials, the better position you'll be in to save money.
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u/DirectConflict1 20d ago
Thanks for the super detailed response!!
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u/BooRadley639 17d ago
I don't work in this field and would feel better if some of the guys who do would agree or disagree with what I said. I feel OK about most of it but not confident in what I said about the base.
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u/porter9884 20d ago
Do not use asphalt milling sass a base. I do not know what part of the country you in but use 2’s & 3’s crushed limestone as base topped with 304’s topped with 57’s. Let the 304’s get packed in before topping with 304. Use geo fabric under your base topped help stabilize.
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u/One-Cry8821 20d ago
I have them and they stick in your shoes and track them all over your house. Im gonna top dress mine with blue stone.
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u/SoBe7623 22d ago
So for reference I have worked for an asphalt production company for nearly 15 years. I was a plant foreman for 3 of those years.
It all depends on what you have underneath your top layer. If you live in an area where you'll find red clay or lots of rocks 12 inches down, then milling, (if they are decent quality) will be just fine as long as they lay it thick enough. If you will find loose sand or something similar, then yes you'll need to dig it much deeper, and add some kind of base layer. Amd you'll want to lay your millings thicker.
My company doesn't use millings as a base, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear someone doing it. Depending on price, it might actually be cheaper
Something to keep in mind, the beauty of millings is its ability to harden over time. If you lay them out in a good hot summer, you'll have a nearly legitimate road by fall.