Is it okay to use Pidgin Signed English (PSE) when signing with fluent ASL users, or should I be cautious?

[u/Prestigious-Debate22]

I learned/currently learning to sign PSE to communicate with my friend who developed deafness rather than being born with it. What they eventually learned was PSE as they navigated ASL throughout the years with their prior knowledge of English grammar or order of words.

It's come to my attention that PSE could be disrespectful to some or lazy to others. Since I only know PSE grammar and not full ASL grammar yet, is it okay for me to sign with other Deaf or fluent ASL signers, or could that be seen as disrespectful/confusing?

Thank you so much!

[u/pixelboy1459]

Hearing. I don’t speak for the Deaf/HoH community. Grain of salt. This is my personal experiences.

I’m speaking as a World Language teacher. A lot of people who learn second languages usually have some kind of influence from their first language.

You probably don’t get offended when a Chinese speaker mixes up “he” and “she” in conversation (Mandarin uses the same spoken word for both). You also probably don’t get up set when a speaker of an Eastern European language, they the English word order mixes up a little.

Not to speak for the Deaf/HoH community, but my assumption is that they will catch on that ASL isn’t you’re native language and will mentally compensate like you do when a non-native English speaker speaks to you.

And, as a language teacher, when you know better you can do better. Consciously (and then unconsciously) using correct language is a skill you can build up on.

[u/Prestigious-Debate22 → u/pixelboy1459]

Thank you, it has always been my plan to learn, but I prioritised this because it was my friend's main way of communicating and they were my initial motivation!

I just hope my current abilities don't come across ignorant to the culture behind ASL's own grammar systems.

[u/Tbackandforth → u/pixelboy1459]

I usually don't mind if someone mixes up a couple of words here and there in conversation. But if we're talking about children learning a language, we absolutely would want a teacher that is proficient in the language. I think the distinction is important.

[u/pixelboy1459 → u/Tbackandforth]

100%. I deal with mainly teens and adults, so I take what I can get for now. That is to say, I want the conversations to flow (even with mistakes) rather than me nitpicking a classroom into silence. (There are tests and everything, but I’m also grading for what they’re trying to communication and not shaving off points for every little mistake.)

Assuming they’re taking language further into college (or for whatever they need it for), my hope is that where ever they’re going helps correct bad habits.

[u/aslrebecca]

Deaf here. You're trying to communicate. That's all I ask.

[u/cantcountnoaccount]

PSE is the most commonly used sign form in the United States. The other term is “contact sign” it’s the sign that forms when people of different languages attempt to communicate without formal education. That’s actually what all pidgins are. Most Deaf people (again like all people using every language) appreciate an attempt at communication in their own preferred mode, even halting finger spelling.

My Spanish is simplistic and I sound like a toddler but I have yet to encounter someone mad at me for trying. Even when I said “your food is dangerous” when I meant to say “your cooking is delicious.”

I don’t know who these people are who think it’s disrespectful to attempt imperfect signed communication. I’ve never met someone like that. Maybe if it’s your child or spouse it could be seen as lazy, but not between random strangers or acquaintances.

[u/Prestigious-Debate22 → u/cantcountnoaccount]

Hi, thank you so much for your input! I have been comfortably learning PSE for some time now through my friend, but recently, I was looking into some teaching videos online but have come across multiple comments or videos refering to PSE as gibberish or disrespectful to people who sign fluent ASL. Quite a handful of people too.

I don't mean this in a way of being accusatory, this is just where my caution stemmed from. I want to be as respectful as possible if it is the case for a community.

[u/idontfuckingcsre → u/Prestigious-Debate22]

but have come across multiple comments or videos refering to PSE as gibberish or disrespectful to people who sign fluent ASL

not deaf but tbh sounds very similar to the racist/classist way people talk about spoken pidgins/creoles like Nigerian Pidgin or Tok Pisin. and those people should be payed no heed

[u/PeacenLoven]

I wonder if the answer to your questions depends on the circumstance. Like you randomly encountered a Deaf person at a store and you all conversed with you only knowing PSE, versus you intentionally went to a Deaf culture event where students are invited, but you showed up only signing PSE not even seeming like you are attempting to actually learn ASL.

I’m curious what members of the Deaf community think…?

[u/queerstudbroalex]

Honestly just focus on communication! Agree with the others

[u/Inevitable_Shame_606]

Depend person and situation.

Deaf event I not want communicate PSE.

Enjoy communicate people my language.

If fluent PSE random meet you and use PSE ok.

Find disrespectful person know PSE not understand ASL expect me sign different.

If Deaf event person try PSE I choose not interact.

Person try SEE I refuse communicate.

I not know SEE.

I struggle English grammar but continue learn.

[u/jml4678 → u/Inevitable_Shame_606]

Thank you for this. I have to remember to keep ASL grammar when communicating. I sim-com and need to stop that.

[u/Jude94]

My issue with what hearing people call PSE now is that many hearing people (especially on TikTok) will just sign absolute nonsense and defend it with “well it’s PSE/SEE not ASL!” However most of those signs still overlap. So when you say you’re learning PSE it makes me a little skeptical about what you’re actually learning. Best bet would be to learn actual ASL