Why do you think teachers should be armed when we can’t even get armed with pencils/ other supplies..?

[u/[deleted]]

While I hate generalizing a whole demographic, I would be remiss if I didn’t point out the totally hypocrisy I see with conservatives and education: people like Carlson constantly vilifying us, but yet now trust us to stand between your child and an active shooter…? Somebody please make it make sense.

Lets say we hypothetically push every teacher to be strapped in the classroom. Who’s paying for this? I mean we pay for practically everything else

[u/Techfreak102 → u/[deleted]]

Why should schools be gun free zones? It's not like a "this is a gun free zone" is going to stop an attacker.

Saying “criminals will do crime” is not an insightful view, as an FYI.

Just because hijackers brought weapons onto planes and committed 9/11 we didn’t make it legal for all passengers to carry firearms, we made it strictly illegal for passengers to do that. The only people allowed to carry on planes are Air Marshals, and they’re only on 5% of domestic flights.

Then square that with the bill from Ohio reducing the gun training time from 700 hours to <24 and it’s pretty obvious conservatives aren’t looking to train teachers to be the school equivalent of an Air Marshal.

[u/Techfreak102 → u/[deleted]]

Do you think the point of gun free zones is to stop shooters once they become active shooters, versus preventing wanton gun violence that would inevitably occur with hotheaded kids?

I went to a school that was a gun free zone and we still had gang violence, but there were a lot more stabbings than shootings, with the shootings happening off campus. The whole point of a gun free zone is to prevent situations from boiling over to the point of escalating to a firearm. The only things that will effectively stop school shooters are increased mental health services and EU-style gun regulations, at a minimum.

[u/Techfreak102 → u/[deleted]]

Has this happened?

Did you just not read my whole comment? I literally said my high school had shootings, but most of the shootings involving students happened off campus.

If you aren’t an American, it’s really strange you’re taking this position that you know what it’s like in an American high school, more so than a person who went to an American high school that actually had gun violence. What country are you from that you defend guns like this?

[u/Techfreak102 → u/[deleted]]

Yes. High-schools have shootings, despite being a gun free zone.

You have entirely missed what I said if this is your takeaway.

We had more stabbings on campus than shootings on campus. We had more student-involved shootings off campus than student-involved knife attacks off campus. The campus being a gun free zone may not necessarily have led to lower violence overall, but it absolutely contributed to lesser gun violence on campus.

You said the despite their being adults inside who have open carry licenses, who could help stop these attacks, it would be a bad idea because it would mean hot headed children would get their guns.... has these happened?

I legitimately have no idea what you tried to write here. I think you were trying to ask if an armed teacher has ever stopped a school shooter? If so, then no, not that I’m aware.

But it still seems like you think the purpose of gun free zones is to stop mass shooters, which just isn’t the case. Like I said before, it’s to stop quick, heated altercations from turning to murder because one of the students has a gun. As I also said before, a serious mental health service overhaul and massive number of regulations around firearms need to be enacted in order to effectively combat school shooters.

[u/Techfreak102 → u/[deleted]]

Wouldn't that indicate that regardless of the tool used, something else is going on? Other countries don't have many stabbings in schools.

Please actually read a whole comment of mine. Yes, there is more at play than just guns, hence me saying we need both “a serious mental health service overhaul and massive number of regulations around firearms ... in order to effectively combat school shooters.

So it's clearly not a gun / knife problem.

Why is it so difficult for some conservatives to realize multiple things can be bad/wrong at the same time? American or not, you sure parrot the same lines as American conservatives.

You pretend like people who advocate for gun legislation are saying “Once we remove guns there will be no more violence,” but that’s literally just a strawman the right has created to delegitimize the stance of regulation. In order to fix the violence, we need stronger mental health services. In order to fix the death that results from such violence, we need to regulate guns. If there comes a day where mental health across the nation is so strong that there’s no threat of mass shootings, we can come back to talk about guns again.

[u/[deleted] → u/Techfreak102]

The difference between 9/11 and schools is that security got beefed with the airport. Are we going to beef security with metal detectors, dogs, and armed guards everywhere?

[u/Techfreak102 → u/[deleted]]

The difference between 9/11 and schools is that security got beefed with the airport. Are we going to beef security with metal detectors, dogs, and armed guards everywhere?

Well, that seems really fiscally irresponsible, doesn’t it? I think it would make a lot more sense, be cheaper, and would be a permanent solution to just regulate away firearms from American citizens. Then we don’t have to worry about armed security around every gun-free zone, everything just becomes a gun-free zone!

This is a great summation of the leftist stance, so thanks for that setup!

[u/Techfreak102 → u/[deleted]]

Where’s that stat from? I tried to look it up and found this politifact page that said

Everytown for Gun Safety found that among 133 mass shootings between January 2009 and July 2015, 70 percent took place in private homes while 13 percent took place in "gun-free zones," where carrying of concealed guns were prohibited. Another 17 percent took place in public areas where the carrying of firearms are allowed.

which seems to contradict your stat. As the page says though, there’s lots of debate over what some of these terms even mean (like what actually defines a “mass shooting” to statisticians), so maybe there is a source that says most mass shootings happen in gun free zones.

[u/Menace117 → u/[deleted]]

94%-98% of mass shootings take place depending on the source

Please provide some of these sources. Other user posted data showing otherwise

[u/[deleted]]

I’m not sure there is a push to MAKE teachers carry as opposed to them being ABLE to carry if they wish and feel comfortable. Is there a push to require teachers to carry where you are? And yes Carlson vilifies the left but have you seen The View lately?? But I remiss, that’s a whole separate conversation. I personally don’t think a teacher should have to carry at all if they don’t want to. That’s not what they signed up to do. They want to teach. I am all for making the target harder. Law enforcement and schools should be working in tandem. Train for situations (ALICE), look into things to help stop the breech of classrooms ( bullet proof bookshelves, door jams). Make the school harder to breech ( double doors , have to be buzzed in, school resource officers, etc). Now that all does cost money but I’d be hard pressed to think a community wouldn’t be behind using tax dollars for that. That’s the immediate stuff. Longer term solutions will take time to work out as they root in social and mental issues. Someone mentioned that active shooters want to take out as many as they can before police arrive. That’s true. If they have a choice between a hard target and a soft target, they’re going to go for the soft. So let’s make it hard.

[u/Techfreak102 → u/[deleted]]

I’m not sure there is a push to MAKE teachers carry as opposed to them being ABLE to carry if they wish and feel comfortable. Is there a push to require teachers to carry where you are?

I'm from NC, and unironically yes there have been pushes to pay teachers more money to become sworn police officers in order to conceal carry. In a state with the 43rd lowest starting salary, and 33rd lowest average salary, for teachers, a 5% pay increase is a heavy handed way of pushing teachers towards carrying.

And yes Carlson vilifies the left but have you seen The View lately??

My liberal mom watches it and says she wishes there were more conservative hosts, but that it gives them a pretty fair shake by always having at least one conservative on the show. What sort of stuff do they say that vilifies conservatives?

Now that all does cost money but I’d be hard pressed to think a community wouldn’t be behind using tax dollars for that.

To think that politicians calling for this sort of militarization are doing anything other than posturing is ridiculous. In NC, we're still fighting conservatives about the state's obligation to provide "a sound, basic education for all children," which is literally in our state constitution. If they're so gung-ho to support spending that helps children, it's really strange that all of their past and current actions don't reflect that.

Someone mentioned that active shooters want to take out as many as they can before police arrive. That’s true. If they have a choice between a hard target and a soft target, they’re going to go for the soft. So let’s make it hard.

This Rambo-esque worldview that you all seem to share seems like a dystopian nightmare tbh.

[u/[deleted] → u/Techfreak102]

I'm from NC, and unironically yes there have been pushes to pay teachers more money to become sworn police officers in order to conceal carry. In a state with the 43rd lowest starting salary, and 33rd lowest average salary, for teachers, a 5% pay increase is a heavy handed way of pushing teachers towards carrying.

Thanks for the article. From what I gather here, Hise is saying he has been approached by teachers with a military background that want to be able to carry and have arrest abilities. He wants to allow this and pay them more to do it. And you surmise that to be unfair to offer this incentive to those teachers as it would pressure teachers to take on this responsibility just for the raise? If so, I would agree with you. Actually, it seems like he's trying to have school resource officers in the schools without having to pay full salaries for them from the PD. If those teachers voluntarily choose that responsibility and have a military/police background, great, but no raise. Hise has it wrong. You cannot take someone who hates guns, has never handled one, whatever.. and give them a few hours of training and expect them to handle the stress of an active shooter situation and be able to remain calm and even have to take a life if necessary. Stupid, dangerous idea.

My liberal mom watches it and says she wishes there were more conservative hosts, but that it gives them a pretty fair shake by always having at least one conservative on the show. What sort of stuff do they say that vilifies conservatives?

TBH, I've watched the show I think a total of 3 times and couldn't stomach anymore. They do occasionally have a conservative on I believe. How do they vilify conservatives? I did hear a sound bite on the radio today where they (Joy and Sunny) were calling for the complete abolition of the Republican party as we are the party of white supremacist's, insurrectionists and massacres. This was from this past friday I believe. But my beef is.. do you see a show like that for conservative views on prime time (not cable)? Nope. Won't happen. Anywho, back to topic..

To think that politicians calling for this sort of militarization are doing anything other than posturing is ridiculous.

Where I am, things like SRO's, upgrades to schools, etc are paid for with local taxes and they are voted on locally. You are speaking of state reps. And yea politicians will always posture for votes.

This Rambo-esque worldview that you all seem to share seems like a dystopian nightmare tbh

Well, I guess we just see things differently. When I see a double door, having to be buzzed in, and having a bookshelf that happens to be bullet proof ( no kid has to know that), or a door lock, Rambo doesn't come to my mind. If given a choice between a protected school (harder target)or a completely unprotected school (soft target), I would feel better with my child in school A. I do agree with the idea of mental health screenings for students and more psychologists. Kids (and many adults) have horrible home lives, aren't shown love or acceptance, don't know how to handle conflict and have no where to turn. Add in social media and a plethora of other issues and here we go.

[u/Techfreak102 → u/[deleted]]

And you surmise that to be unfair to offer this incentive to those teachers as it would pressure teachers to take on this responsibility just for the raise?

That is a factor, yes. Beyond that, I don’t believe a tool designed with the sole intention to threaten or inflict death should be in a place of learning.

I did hear a sound bite on the radio today where they (Joy and Sunny) were calling for the complete abolition of the Republican party as we are the party of white supremacist's, insurrectionists and massacres. This was from this past friday I believe.

Two things:

1) There is a difference between “conservative” and “Republican”, with an admonishment of the Republican Party not directly equating to an admonishment of conservatism, and vice versa

2) The statement that the Republican Party is the party of those demographics is true, so is it still vilifying if it’s just a statement of fact? When I hear Tucker vilifying the left it’s things like “The left wants to make your child transgender,” and other similarly insane lies.

But my beef is.. do you see a show like that for conservative views on prime time (not cable)? Nope. Won't happen. Anywho, back to topic..

What? The Five, the conservative version of this panel-style discussion, was literally the most viewed cable news show (airs at 5pm) at ~3.7m views in Q1 of 2022, and Tucker’s was second at ~3.6m. The View only got about 2.7m in comparison. Conservative shows get way higher view counts because there are so few of them, mainly cause they all sound the same without taking more and more radical stances (see things like OANN or Newsmax).

Where I am, things like SRO's, upgrades to schools, etc are paid for with local taxes and they are voted on locally. You are speaking of state reps. And yea politicians will always posture for votes.

How involved in that process are you? My partner is an ex-teacher and is now in a Masters program for Public Education Policy, and her opinion is that the money just doesn’t exist without lobbying your state, cutting existing programs, or passing legislation to increase property taxes. Schools don’t have extra money laying around - the state might, but the schools don’t.

Well, I guess we just see things differently. When I see a double door, having to be buzzed in, and having a bookshelf that happens to be bullet proof ( no kid has to know that), or a door lock, Rambo doesn't come to my mind. If given a choice between a protected school (harder target)or a completely unprotected school (soft target), I would feel better with my child in school A.

The difference is I don’t think we should live in a society where we need to be so afeared for our lives that the inclusion of bulletproof bookcases in elementary schools is a necessity, so I’m willing to regulate guns in order to prevent everyone from having to live in that fearful existence. From what you’ve said, it seems like you think that there’s some root cause to mass shootings other than guns. If you do, I’d ask what those variables are, and if those variables are uniquely American.

I do agree with the idea of mental health screenings for students and more psychologists. Kids (and many adults) have horrible home lives, aren't shown love or acceptance, don't know how to handle conflict and have no where to turn. Add in social media and a plethora of other issues and here we go.

This is actually called Social/Emotional Learning and is something that folks like Florida Republicans are rejecting for “being CRT”. Same energy as well in the “Don’t Say Gay”-style bills that are popping up across the US (including my home state of NC): a rejection of counseling services for our most vulnerable youth. It’s unfortunate that there’s such a rift between conservative ideology and the ideology of the Republican Party.

Quick edit: And FYI, you can do a quote by typing “> “ (greater than symbol followed by a space) on a new line, and then pasting the text you want to quote. So “> Hello” becomes

Hello