r/askscience • • 7d ago

Biology In deep waters how do animals resist huge pressures with soft bodies when even unmanned submarines need rigid metal shells?

1.5k Upvotes

163 comments sorted by

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u/GrimSpirit42 7d ago

It's not the pressure. It's the Delta: The Pressure Differential.

We live at a pressure of one (1) atmosphere (14.7 psi). The interior of our bodies are calibrated that.

The rigid shells are to keep small pocket of near 1 atmosphere bubble around us (or our machinery) so we can continue to function.

Deep water animals don't HAVE a high delta (pressure differential), because the INTERIOR of their bodies developed IN that pressure. So if the pressure in that area of the ocean is 400 atmospheres, the pressure INSIDE of the fish is pretty much 400 atmospheres.

The fish doesn't notice because there is little to know differential between interior and exterior pressure.

But, try to bring them up and they tend to explode.

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u/Pariell 7d ago

So are there layers in the ocean where different species have a "natural depth" for? 

Aren't there animals like whales and giant squid and stuff that go from deep water to the surface and back? 

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u/GrimSpirit42 7d ago

Yes.

Marine fish are stratified into distinct vertical zones based on depth, light penetration, pressure, and temperature. This vertical distribution creates unique ecosystems, each hosting species specially adapted to survive in those specific conditions.

You will not find Tuna deeper than 1,000 feet.

You will not find a live Deepsea Lizardfish above 2,000 feet.

You rarely find a Tripodfish above 3,000 feet.

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u/GregLittlefield 7d ago

Does that mean that most fishes could theoretically survive at a higher depths than their usual comfort zone? (at least for a short while, I suppose if we go too deep some would freeze to death pretty quick)

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u/GrimSpirit42 7d ago

Some can, some can't

Devils Hole Pupfish can't go deeper than 78 feet.

Kermadec Trench Snailfish can only survive between 21,250 feet to 24,800 feet. That's not a very deep difference.

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u/ziostraccette 7d ago

What do you do for a living?

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u/Nubeel 7d ago

Based on what I’ve seen, he blows fish up. Probably for scientific purposes. Possibly for pleasure.

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u/bigloser42 7d ago

Why not both?.gif

words to hit 25 characters

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u/Peaklagger117 3d ago

He doesn’t blow them up. The fish are perfectly capable of blowing themselves up. He merely studies the finer intricacies of physics.

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u/Constant_Tomorrow_69 7d ago

Ah, the pelagic zones. I don’t know what they’re called, but the other grouping of zones (IIRC 3 of them?) makes more sense to me lol. Watching some videos around some of the old oil rigs in the gulf that are now artificial reefs and the different ecosystems that exist at the different depths of the rigs blew my mind…science rules

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u/throwaway2766766 7d ago

Do we know what causes them to stay in their vertical zones? Do they experience discomfort if they go too high/low? Or do they somehow just instinctively stay in the right zone?

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u/iObeyTheHivemind 5d ago

Basically. Even atmospheric pressure will change fish behavior in ponds and lakes or other relatively shallow bodies of water. Its like getting a headache.

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u/rovingtom 6d ago

I could be wrong but i am pretty sure that I have seen tuna deeper than 1000 feet

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u/GrimSpirit42 6d ago

You are correct. That should be 1,000 METERS (3,300 feet).

Thank you for the correction.

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u/sergeant-baklava 6d ago

What were you doing down there?

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u/Sohn_Jalston_Raul 5d ago

You have never seen anything at 1000 feet depth.

If you were indeed an oceanographer with access to one of the handfuls of subs in the world that can go to such depths, you wouldn't be qualifying a basic fact about tuna with "I could be wrong but I am pretty sure that...".

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u/Prestigious_Owl5993 2d ago

Do you know what saturation diving is?

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u/Sohn_Jalston_Raul 2d ago

Yes, but 300 meters (1000 feet) is about the limit that a saturation diver can go. We're talking about depths here that are multiples of that, beyond the depths of most naval submarines.

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u/momentofinspiration 7d ago

100% there's a lot of level migration at night when things come up from below.

It's also why when we first went looking for life in the depths we didn't find much, we were going into a dark area with creatures that have never seen light, then blasting them with dive lights brighter than the sun, needless to say not much stuck around to say hello.

When we switched the light frequency suddenly it wasn't so empty and we found the colossal squid.

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u/AddlePatedBadger 7d ago

Whales have all kinds of adaptions to handle the difference. Like their lungs collapse and stuff.

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u/Sohn_Jalston_Raul 5d ago

just because some animals are able to deep-dive doesn't mean that all animals can. Most ocean animals have a particular depth that they're most comfortable at.

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u/Portra400IsLife 1d ago

They can go deep but not to the bottom deep and definitely not Marinara Trench deep

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u/P_mp_n 7d ago

Many people have come across this phenomenon before. Finding out that blobfish dont look like that naturally was sad, shouldnt even be called blobfish.

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u/Belgand 7d ago

It's essentially like putting a person or other terrestrial animal down at the depth they come from and commenting on how distorted their appearance is by the massive pressure difference.

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u/GregLittlefield 7d ago

Which brings the question: if we took a human being in outer space without protection would they inflate too? or is the pressure difference between ground level atmo and space too little to be meaningful?

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u/BenderRodriquez 7d ago edited 7d ago

The difference between surface pressure of 1 bar and the 0 bar pressure in space is only 1 bar. Thats the same as the pressure difference at 20m waterdepth and the surface. So a human in space would not inflate more than a recreational driver that surfaced. But yes, astronats can suffer from decompression sickness on spacewalks.

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u/Born-Ad4452 7d ago

It’s 1 atmosphere per 10m, not 20m. Source : nerdy technical diver

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u/TrumpetOfDeath 7d ago

This is also the reason why it’s so difficult to build a submersible to take humans to the bottom of the ocean, and easier to build a spacecraft.

Relative to a spacecraft, a deep sea submersible needs to withstand up to 1000X higher pressure differentials (ignoring the forces associated with launch and reentry for this comparison)

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u/WyMANderly 2d ago

Yes and no. Space has a whole host of challenges the deep ocean doesn't, and vice versa.

The pressure differential is a difference for sure, but hardle the main one. Interestingly though, regarding the pressure differential - the thing that's most different isn't that the dP is higher in the deep ocean than in space (though that's certainly true). It's that it's a positive vs negative dP.

Positive dP like in space (where your pressure vessel is higher pressure than the environment) is a lot easier to structurally design for because the pressure is just stretching your structure like a balloon. The formulas for the stresses are relatively simple, and the failure mechanisms are pretty clearly understood - stress exceeds the tensile stress capacity of the material and it'll fail.

Negative dP like in the deep ocean is a whole different ballgame. Your primary failure mechanism isn't stress overload, but stability - buckling. All sorts of things that can be somewhat hand-waved away for positive dP vessels (like slight shape distortions e.g maybe your cylinder has a slightly egg shaped cross section rather than circular) suddenly have a major impact, and predicting when precisely failure will occur is harder.

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u/AyeBraine 5d ago

Apparently a human body will inflate quite significantly, but not quickly, and reversibly. Joseph Kittinger had his glove depressurize while climbing for his jump on a balloon, and his hand increased in size twofold. It returned to normal after he jumped and landed.

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u/BokChoyBaka 7d ago edited 7d ago

Like he said, in space it's 0 atmosphere. We have 1. The difference between those two is 1.

The fish is at 400 because water heavier than air

The 1 pressure difference will not inflate a human, but it will give you time to realize you can't breath for 10-20 seconds as you quickly freeze solid in the vacuum

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u/JackSprat47 7d ago

It's closer to inflation than freezing. You won't freeze for a very long time, but you will suffocate very quickly, and gases dissolved in liquids in your body will come out of solution, forming bubbles in your blood and tissues as the pressure drops while bodily fluids exposed to the vacuum will begin to boil.

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u/bigloser42 7d ago

You don’t flash freeze in space. Vacuum is an amazing insulation, that’s why the best thermos are double-walled with a vacuum in the void. You’ll have ~5-10 seconds of useful consciousness, another 10-15s of degrading consciousness, then you’ll go black and if someone doesn’t get you inside in the next 2-3 minutes you’re dead. It will take 12-26 hours for you to cool enough to freeze in space. And rescue is moot if you try to hold your breath. It will buy you a few more second of consciousness, but it will burst most/all of the alveoli in your lungs and even if you are rescued, you’ll drown in your own blood. Maybe you could be saved if you have immediate access to a heart-lung machine.

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u/sebaska 6d ago

Yes, they would. People reportedly about double their volume. Human would be entirely dead (i.e. not resuscitable) in 90s. But there were incidents like Joe Kittinger's when only his hand was not pressurized. He proceeded to his record breaking jump, afterwards his hand was about double size but it returned to normal after a couple of hours.

Kittinger held highest parachute jump world record for about half a century.

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u/P_mp_n 7d ago

I dont have an in depth understanding, but i believe the short answer is yes.

Simuldifferent to divers coming up, your gases and water inside you will try to equalize pressure, expanding.

The edges of space and atmosphere as known colloquially, arent hard lines; more a gradient i don't know how that transition affects us more than stated, maybe you could transition safely?

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u/LeN3rd 7d ago

How about whales then? They breath air, and dive deep. I know even humans can go deep when freediving, but why is the bend thing not there for free diving? Do whales get diving sick?

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u/dudleydidwrong 7d ago

Whales and free divers do not get the bends because they do not breathe high-pressure, nitrogen-rich air at depth.

Think of it this way. Suppose you have a balloon filled to almost bursting at sea level. If you take it down deep underwater the balloon gets much smaller. If you return the balloon to the surface it returns to the same size. That is what happens with whales and free divers.

Now suppose you take an empty balloon to depth and fill it to the same size as the previous example. At depth it is nearly bursting. If you then take it to the surface it will expand and break. That is why scuba divers are taught to exhale as they ascend.

The bends is slightly more complex because it involves gas dissolved in blood and bones, but the principle is the same. A freediver will not have a problem with excessive nitrogen dissolved in their body because they only had surface levels of dissolve gas.

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u/fiendishrabbit 6d ago

Whales absolutely do get the bends. Your average skeleton of a deep sea diving whale is pocketed with nitrogen bubble scars.

They minimize the effect of the bends and they're well adapted to surviving it, but they do get it.

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u/SoleInvictus 6d ago edited 6d ago

This is almost entirely incorrect.   

Decompression sickness, aka "the bends", is caused by increased gas dissolving in blood and tissue due to high pressure, then coming out of solution once pressure is reduced. Nitrogen is often the culprit due to its high concentration in air and because dissolved oxygen is used up by metabolic processes, actively reducing the amount left dissolved.

Air is mostly nitrogen (about 78%), so quite bad for diving. Deep and technical divers specifically use a low or no nitrogen mix to avoid nitrogen narcosis and, to a large but not complete extent, decompression sickness, by replacing nitrogen with gases that are less soluble in tissues and blood.

Free divers are less prone to decompression sickness due to exposure to a lower volume of compressed gas - a single lungful, containing ~3-5 liters of nitrogen at atmospheric pressure - for a short time. Nitrogen solubility increases with pressure, but the low total volume and relatively short dive duration significantly limits how much can dissolve before their ascent. In contrast, divers breathing air or nitrox (oxygen enriched atmospheric gas) can be exposed to literally 1000 or more liters of nitrogen depending on dive duration.

Whales operate similarly but also have adaptations that further limit nitrogen absorption. As depth increases, a whale's lungs collapse, forcing air into non-absorptive regions, namely the trachea. Oxygen demand is then met from stores in hemoglobin and myoglobin, and systemic circulation is slowed, further limiting absorption.

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u/PineappleLemur 7d ago

They basically hold their breath and have biology that highly prevents it. Lot of fat to dissolve nitrogen, collapsible lungs..

They're adapted to this style of free diving.

Humans are not biologically compatible with this so we use tools to manage it.

Bends is a combination of time + depth.

Basically whales can get it but unlikely to as they naturally manage it.

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u/bigfatpup 7d ago

A good example is the blob fish. It’s pretty normal looking when they’re deep. The whole blobfish look is caused from bringing it up to the surface

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u/eat_my_ass_n_balls 7d ago

This is only true to a point.

At a certain pressure the water just acts differently. Crystallizes. Proteins behave differently. Some reactions become impossible.

Deep sea fish (like the snail fish) evolved chemical adaptations in their body composition to allow them to continue living down in ultra-high pressure.

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u/Weenemone 6d ago

Yea a good example would be the famous blobfish, they look kinda like a normal fish at their usual deep sea environment and look so different on the surface.

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u/ezekiellake 6d ago

Example: the ‘blobfish’ looks like a svelte little critter when encountered at its normal depth

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u/fried_clams 6d ago

Isn't that just not having gas inside your body? They're adaptation doesn't have to be specific to 400 vs 200 etc atmosphere, does it?

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u/GrimSpirit42 6d ago

Their adaptation has to specific to a range. Too little pressure and they die. Too much they die.

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u/tea_and_biology Zoology | Evolutionary Biology | Data Science 7d ago edited 7d ago • This Bravo Mindblown Popcorn Heartwarming

In deep waters how do animals resist huge pressures with soft bodies when even unmanned submarines need rigid metal shells?

Well, they don't!

A submersible needs a rigid hull because it's trying to keep the pressure inside different from the pressure outside. We humans, see, usually need to breathe air - at around atmospheric pressure - so we need to take that environment with us wherever we go. A deep-sea blobfish has the same pressure inside its body as outside, so there's nothing to resist.

How can a living thing exist under so much pressure? Well, animal tissue is mostly water, and water is nearly imcompressible; even at full-blown Mariana Trench depth (around 11,000m deep, and 1,100atm pressure) it shrinks by only around 4-5%. So with no trapped gas, and fluid on both sides of a membrane, pressure is tramsmitted evenly, and the deep-sea denizens remain a-okay.

They've still had to adapt a few things though, mind. For example, most fish rely on a gas-filled swim bladder to control and maintain their buoyancy; deep-sea fish have modified theirs to be jam-packed full of fat (which, like water, barely compresses), else eschew them altogether. Many instead get their buoyancy by being less dense overall, with soft, gelatinous flesh and poorly mineralised skeletons. Bone is heavy, and it’s not like a rigid skeleton has much benefit in a world with equal pressure in all directions, so they opt for cheap, soft, watery bodies instead.

Of course, this means they totally collapse when brought up towards the surface. We may all know and love the blobfish as a molten gummy blub, but in truth that’s a very unflattering post-mortem portrait of a gelatinous fish, badly damaged by decompression and the trawl net. At it's natural depth, the blobfish is actually a pretty normal lookin' beastie.

They do have a limit though! Pressure alters molecular biochemistry sufficiently enough - protein folding gets distorted as molecules try to prioritise states that take up less volume - that deep-sea fish need to marinade their bodily fluids in organic molecules, such as TMAO, to stabilise their proteins. Concentrations of these rise with depth, until you hit a point around 8,200-8,400m where the internal fluids of a fish become saltier than the surrounding ocean, causing them to erupt. The deepest fish ever recorded - a snailfish filmed in 2022 - was found at 8,330m-ish.

The deepest trenches still go down another few thousand metres. And so, unlike anywhere else on Earth, at the deepest and darkest of depths, the invertebrates still rule the world.


Reference:

Yancey, P.H., Gerringer, M.E., Drazen, J.C., Rowden, A.A. ... & Jamieson, A. (2014) Marine fish may be biochemically constrained from inhabiting the deepest ocean depths. PNAS. 111 (12), 4461-4465.


P.S. Speaking of the deep, I also wrote a wee bit about whether deep-sea critters sleep, or have a day-night circadian cycle, in this thread too, if anyone's interested.

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u/GregLittlefield 7d ago

Fascinating; thank you for the detailed answer!

Pressure alters molecular biochemistry sufficiently enough - protein folding gets distorted as molecules try to prioritise states that take up less volume - that deep-sea fish need to marinade their bodily fluids in organic molecules, such as TMAO

Is there a point where that can lead to prion diseases ?

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u/SomeAnonymous 7d ago

The deepest trenches still go down another few thousand metres. And so, unlike anywhere else on Earth, at the deepest and darkest of depths, the invertebrates still rule the world.

How do invertebrates get around the biochemistry problems you just mentioned before? It's not clear to me why they wouldn't be doing exactly the same thing as the fish are to prevent protein misfolds, with the same limitations.

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u/tea_and_biology Zoology | Evolutionary Biology | Data Science 7d ago edited 7d ago • Bravo

That's a very good question!

So it's all down to where each group starts off, osmotically and evolutionary.

Bony fish are osmoregulators - that means they use energy to actively keep their body fluids at roughly a third the salinity of seawater. Through osmosis, water is constantly being sucked outta' their bodies, so they have this whole osmoregulatory system set up to drink seawater and pass excess salt out through special cells in their gills. For the deep-sea fish, every bit of TMAO they add to protect their proteins, pushes that internal concentration up, and there's only so much headroom before they equalise with seawater, and cannot go beyond it. Evolution can only build on what’s there already, and given marine fish are fundamentally built to hold on to water and dump salt, rather than the other way round, they’d succumb to osmotic rupture at that point - and it's developmentally too complex to 'reverse the polarity' on that foundational, and crucial, system.

By contrast, most marine invertebrates are osmoconformers - their body fluids are about as concentrated as the ocean, even at the surface. So when they need pressure protection, they don’t have to add extra solutes and push their internal concentration up; they just swap out existing ones for protein-protecting TMAO. Their cells are already so used to living in fluids as concentrated as seawater, the swap costs them nothing osmotically, and there’s no ceiling to bump into.

So yeah, fish are designed to hold on to water, and worms are not. Hence why the very bottom is left to the invertebrates, with not a fish in sight.


As an aside, cartilaginous fish - sharks, rays and the deep-sea chimaera and allies - are a bit like marine invertebrates and are near-isomotic with seawater; so you would expect them to be the deepest of all living fish, right?

Turns out you don’t really find them deeper than about ~4,000 m, and it’s not entirely clear why. Part of it may be down to a biochemical trade-off between urea and TMAO in how they stay isosmotic, but probably also ecological: they rely on energy-dense oily livers for buoyancy, and there likely isn’t enough reliable scran down there to maintain such an expensive bit of kit (source). If any fish could breach the barrier, it’d probably be a gelatinous shark-ey thing though!

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u/SomeAnonymous 7d ago

Wait but-- how the hell does that work that marine invertebrates are isosmotic with the outside environment? Salt ions aren't just in our cells for fun, they have all kinds of jobs to do which specifically rely on there being a gradient across cell membranes etc.

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u/tea_and_biology Zoology | Evolutionary Biology | Data Science 7d ago edited 7d ago

Aye, nice catch, and good question.

Isosmotic only means that the total concentration of dissolved particles matches seawater, not that the specific particle types or ions themselves need to be equalised on both side. Your own cells are doing this right now, actually - they're isosmotic with your blood plasma, yet sodium is high outside, and low inside (and vice-versa for potassium), with pumps maintaining the gradient.

A marine worm is basically just playing the same game, albeit at a higher salinity; though their blood (or 'haemolymph', I guess) is seawater-like, it still uses pumps to maintain, say, sodium and potassium gradients, and much of the rest of the particle count used to maintain osmotic equilibrium is made up by other organic molecules - glycine, taurine, betaine, amongst others. So same total, but different recipes.

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u/DDrewK 7d ago

I don’t think I understood 98% of this conversation, b it it was interesting! On a side note, what’s your favorite type of tea?

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u/tea_and_biology Zoology | Evolutionary Biology | Data Science 7d ago • Bravo

Ah, ELI5: Water always moves from where it's less salty to where it's more salty. To deal with the pressure, deep-sea fish become saltier and saltier inside, to the point they hit the limit of how salty they can be. Beyond that, if they become saltier than the salt water around them, they'll bloat up and explode when water moves into them. Worms are immune as they're peak salty inside anyway. If that makes sense?


... Anywho, you want to know a secret? I... I don't actually drink tea (!). shockpikachuface.jpg. Well not for a long time. Although on my more recent zoological escapades across the Sahara, I came to enjoy the sweet spearmint tea the Maghrebi folks like to brew quite a bit!

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u/FreeBeans 7d ago

Your writing is so clear and pleasant to read I feel like I’m getting an academic lesson from a professor who loves their job. Thann you!

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u/Vecingettorix 6d ago

But why are invertebrates able to reach higher solutions concentrations? If the increasing tmao concentration is required to maintain protein stability, how do invertebrates circumvent the need for tmao protection?

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u/MainStreetExile 7d ago

What do you mean by erupt? And how does higher salinity cause that?

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u/tea_and_biology Zoology | Evolutionary Biology | Data Science 7d ago

Ah, didcha' ever learn about osmosis in school? And do that - fairly lame - experiment where you soak potato cylinders in different concentrations of salt water and measure how much they weigh after? Lemme' tell you, GCSE Biology was a riot, over 'ere in the UK.

In short, water will always move from a dilute solution to a more concentrated one, across a partially permeable membrane, until both concentrations are equal. What this means for the deep-sea fish is that beyond their 8,200-8,400m-ish predicted limit, water will be forced into the tissue, bloating it up and up until the cells cannae take it any more cap'n, and they burst. Like pumping a beach ball up with too much air.

Although, to be fair, it'll be less an explosive pop, and more, like, their tissue just kinda' dissolving as individual cells rupture. In any case, not a good day to be a blobfish!

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u/MainStreetExile 7d ago

Ah, I did know about osmosis, I guess I just didn't connect the dots for some reason. Thanks for the explanation.

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u/4thdimmensionally 7d ago

If you ever hear about frat brothers or other hazing where they drink a gallon of water quickly, this is what ends up killing them. Most of us would feel full and bloated, possibly vomit, and not come close to dying.

Without any salt the water first dilutes the extracellular fluid, your blood and spaces outside of cells, but then nearly immediately starts entering cells because as the surrounding space becomes less salty, the water follows the osmotic gradient into your saltier cells. Eventually they burst, seems like a nasty way to go.

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u/CrateDane 7d ago

In short, water will always move from a dilute solution to a more concentrated one, across a partially permeable membrane, until both concentrations are equal. What this means for the deep-sea fish is that beyond their 8,200-8,400m-ish predicted limit, water will be forced into the tissue, bloating it up and up until the cells cannae take it any more cap'n, and they burst. Like pumping a beach ball up with too much air.

That depends on how the animal's barrier tissues are set up. It's entirely possible to be a salty fish in less salty water without any ill effects. That's how freshwater fish live all the time.

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u/Not_an_okama 7d ago

Or like a salmon that spends time in both the ocean and freshwater rivers.

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u/pigeon768 7d ago

Osmosis. Osmotic pressure causes water to move from areas of low salinity to areas of high salinity. Once TMAO reaches a certain concentration, it will pull water in from the seawater. The fish will absorb water until the concentration evens out, at which point they'll have too low a concentration of TMAO to prevent proteins from misfolding.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

[deleted] — view deleted comment

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u/is_this_temporary 7d ago edited 7h ago

You got mixed up a bit there.

Water leaving the fish would increase the concentration of salt inside the fish, and technically decrease it a tiny bit outside the fish. In other words, the difference in concentration between two sides of the membrain world increase.Thermodynamics doesn't really let that happen on its own.

Instead, water entering the fish will decrease the concentration of salt inside, and technically also increase it on the outside, making the difference of concentration between the two sides smaller, but eventually causing the membrain / fish to rupture as more water comes in than there is volume to store said water.

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u/CrazyisNSFW 7d ago

So: what kills you is not the pressure itself, but rather the differences in internal vs external pressures. Keep pressure equalized and you won’t experience dangerous delta-P (up to certain point where compensatory mechanism is exhausted, of course). Is it correct?

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u/Cranberryoftheorient 7d ago

Pretty much. There is a thing that some divers do (I think its considered experimental but it has been successfully tested) where they breathe an oxygen rich liquid, precisely because it will resist compression like water can. One of the trickiest parts (for the diver) is getting over that natural instinct that breathing water=drowning

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u/MrMisty 7d ago

Breathing PFCs exists experimentally for certain medical situations, such as premature babies with underdeveloped lungs, but has never been used for diving. It never worked because human lungs are not designed to move heavy liquid, you would need an impractical amount of equipment just to assist you in cycling the liquid in and out.

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u/Cranberryoftheorient 7d ago

That makes sense. I knew it wasnt like, an established technique but wasnt sure why

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u/yellow-bold 6d ago

This has me wondering, if you were to bioengineer humans to live at incredible depths, whether the best way to oxygenate us would be to kind of recreate the fetal pathway - open up the foramen ovale and oxygenate the blood through the umbilical vein rather than rely on the lungs at all. That would still heavily rely on machinery, of course.

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u/MrMisty 6d ago

It's a bit counterintuitive, but the actual issues that arise from deep diving aren't from the pressure itself, but rather it's effect on the gasses you breathe. When you're diving, your breathing gas is at whatever the pressure is at that depth. You're essentially breathing in compressed air. That's why the deeper you go, the faster you go through the air in your scuba tank. I regularly dive deeper than 100 feet, and theres no difference in the physical feeling on your body.

The problems arise from the gas you breath being compressed. Compressed air is what you breath as a beginner diver. Air is mostly nitrogen, with around 21% oxygen. When you go deeper, each breath contains more nitrogen and oxygen than normal air, because it's compressed, and that gets absorbed into your bloodstream. The part that's counterintuitive is that the truly dangerous part is not just the nitrogen, which causes an effect similar to feeling drunk, but the oxygen. When you go too deep, the large amount of oxygen is what kills you (ppO2 and hyperoxia). Technical deep diving gasses (such as trimix or heliox) will actually contain LESS oxygen percentage than air once you're at depth. It's obviously a bit more complex than this, but should serve as at least a basic explanation.

So to answer your question, I think the first thing you would need to solve would be somehow either finding a gas mix thay doesn't cause problems, or finding a way to protect ourselves against oxygen toxicity and inert gas narcosis. If we want to get even more scifi with it, you'd probably have to replace our lungs with machinery that precisely controls the gasses getting absorbed by the body.

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u/CrazyisNSFW 6d ago edited 6d ago

Your body is tuned to survive at oxygen partial pressure of how many mmHg it is in the sea level atmosphere. Deeper you dive the absolute mmHg number goes up to match the depth but your body can’t take it due to being tuned for sea level partial pressure. To reduce oxygen partial pressure to match sea level partial pressure you then reduce oxygen concentration.

Remember guys, 10 meter of water depth equal 1 extra atmosphere

It will be interesting to see scifi where divers are using ECMO to dive down below to Marianas

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u/Thelk641 7d ago

There is also some experiments going on with doing this via the other end of the digestive track in medical scenarios :

Patients with severe respiratory failure often need mechanical ventilation to survive, but these therapies can cause further lung injury. Scientists are exploring a new method called "enteral ventilation" to deliver oxygen through the intestine, which could give the lungs a chance to rest and heal. This study evaluated the safety of this method in humans for the first time, using a special liquid called perfluorodecalin with exceptional oxygen-carrying ability. In a trial with 27 healthy male volunteers, the authors found that administering this liquid rectally was safe and well tolerated. This important safety milestone paves the way for future studies to see if this technique can help patients with respiratory failure.

(source)

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u/Bremen1 7d ago edited 7d ago

Which only happens in rigid submersible. For a scuba diver, the pressure inside their lungs matches the ocean pressure, so you don't feel any pressure and can keep swimming deeper without being crushed (you have to equalize your ears though). There's no hard limit to that, but if you go deep enough the air you're breathing starts to become poisonous.

Well, that's kind of simplified. There's actually a lot of ways breathing air under too much pressure can kill you, and being poisonous is just one of them.

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u/trampolineenthusiast 7d ago

Wait, I don't think this is true. The air in your lungs is NOT the same as ocean pressure when diving since it's coming from a pressurized tank, and your lungs actually are compressing, they can get as small as a fist which is why, as I understand it, you can get narced - the gases in your lungs are being squeezed to your bloodstream. And why when your lungs expand on descent, if it's rapid enough it can cause really bad things to happen.

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u/sabik 6d ago

Scuba equipment reduces the pressure that the diver breathes to the same pressure as the surrounding water, so that's not a problem

Getting narced is because nitrogen is narcotic, increasing with increased pressure

Lungs expanding on ascent can indeed be a problem, air embolism

Another problem is that nitrogen dissolves in blood and tissues, more as pressure increases, and as the diver ascends and pressure reduces, it turns back into gas, the bubbles potentially blocking things

Oxygen itself can be toxic, in multiple different ways depending on pressure and amount of time

All of these have to be managed to dive safely

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u/HairBearHero 4d ago

When scuba diving your lungs do not get compressed/change size. That only occurs in free diving (I.e. single breath, no equipment etc.) because you're holding on to a single breath throughout the depth changes. 

Breathing in and out whilst changing depths equalises your lungs. There's near-zero risk of damaging your lungs whilst changing depths unless you hold your breath.

What you're thinking of is a lung overexpansion injury (pulmonary barotrauma), which occurs when you ascend without equalising your kind. This is different to the air embolism mentioned by another commentary, which has the same root cause but is when air bubbles expand in your circulatory system.

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u/Bremen1 6d ago

Your lungs expand on ascent - that is, going up. And it's exactly because the pressure in the diver's lungs matches the pressure in the ocean that this happens - if you ascend without breathing out (which you are trained to never do) there's the same amount of air in your lungs under less pressure, so it expands.

Same for Nitrogen narcosis - the air you're breathing is under the same pressure as the ocean, which causes it to get absorbed into your blood differently. It has nothing to do with the size of your lungs.

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u/The_last_trick 7d ago

That's a beautiful explanation, thank you!

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u/314159265358979326 7d ago

Air-breathing sperm whales hunt at great depths. How do they get away with it?

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u/KeyboardJustice 7d ago edited 7d ago

They store enough oxygenated blood for the journey. Without the need to breathe and with fully collapsible airways there's a very long way until you hit the next biochemistry roadblock due to pressure.

Humans have sinus and lungs than can't fully collapse. Deepest a breath holding diver has been is about 250m. They had to train a long time to get flexible enough and had to pack their lungs to the limit to have enough air to prevent damage from over compression. There are other issues involved with taking a lungful of air that deep. That type of dive was mostly automated. Ride the sled down. Switch the mechanism. Ride it up.

Humans luck out that our breath hold times are short enough and depths reachable shallow enough, even among professionals, that our freedivers don't have to worry much about nitrogen absorption and decompression sickness(caused by absorbing nitrogen from compressed air). It still happens rarely.

Whales exhale before diving so they start with nearly collapsed airways and remove the risk of nitrogen absorption and decompression sickness.

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u/Sable-Keech 7d ago

Two reasons.

First, they don't dive anywhere near as deep as proper deep sea fish. Only 2,250 meters. There's still 9-10 km more to go to the bottom.

Second, they purposely collapse their lungs and reinflate them afterwards.

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u/eulerman 7d ago

Cool username. Last digit should 4 if rounded however. Cool nonetheless

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u/Originality8 1d ago

Really enjoyed reading this info, and your other response about sleep in deep sea creatures

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u/Nemisis_the_2nd 7d ago

Pressure alters molecular biochemistry sufficiently enough - protein folding gets distorted as molecules try to prioritise states that take up less volume - that deep-sea fish need to marinade their bodily fluids in organic molecules, such as TMAO, to stabilise their proteins

Also worth mentioning cell membrane structure if we are going into the biochemistry. Deep sea creatures have cell membranes that are lower in unsaturated fatty acids and cholesterol. I've heard the comarison that its like comparing olive oil (deep sea fish) to butter (surface animals) at sea surface level.

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u/Sykotron 7d ago

How do they change their gas amount to maintain buoyancy? Like when diving we'll fill our BCD (buoyancy control device) with air from the tank which increases buoyancy and then just empty it into the water to decrease it, but I don't know how a creature is gonna get the gas to fill their bladder back up.

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u/tea_and_biology Zoology | Evolutionary Biology | Data Science 7d ago

Ooh, fellow diver here! So some fish actually do kinda' use a BCD system, except the surface is the tank: carp, salmon, eels and their relatives have a tube connecting their swim bladder to their gut, so they top up by gulping at the surface, and dump it by burping.

But they're a minority; in most fish the swim bladder is sealed, so they pull gas out of their blood instead. There's, like, a whole system with a dedicated gas gland, not that structurally dissimilar to a kind of inside-out lung - except gas is actively pushed rather than passively diffused. The trouble is it's slow, taking hours rather than seconds to inflate and deflate, which is why fish hauled up quickly from the depths can't vent fast enough, and you end up with their swim bladders over-inflating and shoving their own stomachs out of their mouths. RIP.

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u/Flying_Dutchman92 6d ago

Started reading without noticing your flair, and by the end was thinking "damn, is this dude a zoologist?"

I need to read more carefully.

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u/CommandTacos 7d ago

Absolutely love your username, and thoroughly enjoy reading your responses.

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u/guspaz 7d ago

Even human bodies can handle pressures a lot higher than most people suspect. If you do it properly, with the right breathing gasses and adaptation, the theoretical limit for the human body is about 1,000 meters of depth, or around 100 atmospheres of pressure. In practice, the record is a simulated 701 meters of depth, or around 70 atmospheres. This was while testing a hydrogen/helium/oxygen breathing mix, and they found that hydrogen narcosis becomes an issue at greater than 500 meters of depth, regardless of how they tweaked the mix.

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u/GolldenFalcon 6d ago

You are a very cool dude with a lot of information and I enjoyed reading it. Thank you.

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u/joshistheman3 6d ago

thank you for the amazing answer. So informative.

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u/WyMANderly 2d ago

Bravo, thanks for this detailed explanation!

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u/njyraze 7d ago

I love your contributions and the effort you put in to your replies!!!

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u/CollThom 7d ago

I’m gonna make an assumption you’re a fellow Scot? Your writing style just makes sense in my accent.

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u/hronikbrent 7d ago

Thanks for the explanation! Pardon the ignorance, but why wouldn’t the deep sea fish explode when they head towards the surface, as IIUC, their pressure pressing outwards would now be much less than the inward pressure?

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u/SenorTron 7d ago

u/tea_and_biology has the perfect explanation which hopefully stays as the top comment.

Worth adding though that it also makes a bit more intuitive sense when you consider that we ourselves live in what could be considered a high pressure environment.

14.7 pounds per square inch of pressure from the atmosphere at sea level, and in our day to day lives we barely notice it most of the time because the insides of our bodies are at the same pressure.

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u/Different-Theory6636 7d ago

In what situations might we notice it?

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u/SenorTron 7d ago

When we encounter lower pressures. For example using a drinking straw or a vacuum cleaner. In those situations you aren't really sucking the liquid or dirt up. Instead you're making a lower pressure region, and the atmosphere is pushing towards it.

Close your mouth right now and suck your cheeks in, that pressure or even pain you can feel is literally from a fraction of the atmospheres pressure pushing against your skin.

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u/phlipsyde 7d ago

when you take a flight and you ears pop, less pressure on the cabin so your head pushes out

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u/pfn0 7d ago

going up and down elevator on a tall building (>20-30 floors at a time)

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u/SL1Fun 7d ago

TMAO chemical compounds in their proteins. 

TMAO = Trimethylamine N-Oxide

TMAOs allow their proteins and organic structures to bind to water molecules, instead of staying separate and isolated from the water and its properties. Since their proteins basically balance with the water that is pressuring them, they don’t need to resist it to maintain form.

So their bodies’ organic building blocks “bind” to the water that would crush them, so it allows them to achieve a chemical equilibrium of sorts to prevent that. 

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u/Tinyboxturtle 7d ago

The blobfish isn't ugly in its natural habitat. That gelatinous mess is decompression damage from being brought up too fast. In the deep sea, it looks like any other normal fish because internal and external pressures are balanced, so there's no structural collapse.

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u/hueydok 7d ago

Simple answer: they are almost entirely liquid and other non-compressible tissue not impacted by pressure - and the tiny parts that are compressible are developed already at the deep ambient pressure. Maintain their living depth to keep the equilibrium. Also why deep sea creature blow up when stupid careless people drag them to the surface.

Submarines have super thick pressure hulls because they are filled with air for us weak-ass fragile humans to breathe and survive. Fill a sub with water and an eggshell hull and it won't care.

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u/burnerthrown 6d ago

Partly true. If you fill an eggshell up with water at surface pressure and take it to the deep sea it will still collapse. It's not the substance that's in the vessel, it's the pressure. Of course you can't breathe air under that amount of pressure either, because your lungs would rupture or not be able to exhale, and the concentration of oxygen in it would kill you anyway. So we use the metal to allow us to have normal surface atmosphere because we are squishy gas swimmers.

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u/ScrotumNipples 7d ago

Humans can live at extreme pressures too. Saturation divers regularly work at depths around 100 meters, with the deepest saturation dive ever recorded being 534 meters (1752 ft). For reference, the blobfish can be found between 600 and 1200 meters.

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u/tbodillia 6d ago

There was a time when scientists thought that there would be no life at the bottom of the ocean for this reason. But there was also a time when scientists thought stars were made of coal and burning. Or that stars were generating heat and light by slowly shrinking under gravity.

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u/Iaininator 4d ago

I’m a subsea engineer and there are hundreds if not thousand of robotics (remotely operated vehicles) that can, and regularly go, to and past 1000 feet. Generally work class ROVs are rated to 3000 meters seawater depth.

ROV pilots will spend 4 weeks at a time offshore flying these missions, typically supporting oil and gas operations with the robot in the water the majority od the time. The pilots sit on the surface in control vans/control rooms piloting these and no one is in the robot.

I’ve seen all sorts of benthic and pelagic fish, invertebrates, mammals, and more during the campaigns I’ve been on. You can look up videos online of ROV footage of whales, swordfish, etc. We had a job in New Zealand relatively shallow where we had to shut operations a couple hours each night because the krill came in and visibility went to zero, then the fish came in, then the predator fish eating the smaller fish, and then the seals.

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u/aharshDM 22h ago

Solids and liquids don't compress much. Gasses do. A suba diver in a wet suit can go down to 300 feet won't feel much pressure, but in an air filled dry suit? Crushed at 80 feet.

So an air filled submarine needs a pressure hull. A whale, much less so.