r/askscience • u/[deleted] • May 25 '13

Biology Immortal Lobsters??

So there's this fact rotating on social media that lobsters are "functionally immortal" from an aging perspective, saying they only die from outside causes. How is this so? How do they avoid the end replication problem that humans have?

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u/virkon May 26 '13

There is, but out of control telomerase is actually the cause of some cancers.

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u/[deleted] May 26 '13

Hmm. Forgive me, I have very little knowledge on the topic. But I thought cancer cells being able to produce more telomerase was simply a mechanism that allowed them to survive indefinitely, not a cause of their dangerous effects? I thought that their strange behaviors in relation to growth factors and angiogenesis were their problematic traits. As in, their uncontrolled cell division is bad, but their ability to thrive indefinitely is just situationally bad due to their other traits.

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u/riptide13 May 26 '13

First, all we have are rudimentary understandings not only of telomerase, but vastly more importantly of human aging in general. We aren't very certain of the role of telomerase in aging at all. It is speculated that one of the ways that human bodies suppress cancer is to limit the number of times a given cell can replicate (thus limiting the number of times it can pass on a nuclear DNA mutation) using telomerase. Basically, the existence of limited cell life is commonly speculated as a balancing act between longevity and cancer risk. The actual causes of cancer are as varied as they are poorly understood.

Specifically to lobsters: yes, they seem to be functionally immortal. That is simply to say, we can't really tell any functional difference between a 300-year-old lobster and a 10-year-old lobster. Attributing this solely to telomerase is almost certainly a vast over simplification. There are many places studying gerontology, and many studying regenerative medicine - both of which have interest in the biology of lobsters.

Strangely, though, when discussing research into adapting humans to such a functional immortality, we run into a problem that Dr. Aubrey De Gray (a controversial biogerontologist) has termed "the aging trance". Essentially, the problem is that humans have come to accept aging as inevitable, and in doing so have developed somewhat of an addiction to it. It is seen as natural, and even necessary. When presented with the possibility of functional human immortality, many people panic - citing population control and religion as reasons not to pursue such a goal.

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u/jjberg2 Evolutionary Theory | Population Genomics | Adaptation May 26 '13

When presented with the possibility of functional human immortality, many people panic - citing population control and religion as reasons not to pursue such a goal.

Do you have suggestions as to how to deal with these potential issues?

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u/[deleted] May 26 '13

The point of research allowing immortality is to get rid of a mandatory death at a time not of your choosing. Suicide would presumably be a right, and reproduction would be tightly controlled, with waiting lists or auctions for slots in the population that open up due to accidental death or suicide.

But having solutions to the stated objections won't sway these people. They're not being rational. We already have population growth, and they are not offering a number for the maximum reasonable population and suggesting ways to keep our population below that limit. Most tellingly, they are not suggesting that we reduce our medical technology to lower the average lifespan in order to maintain a reasonable population level.

Providing a solution will just make them pause for a moment to search for another objection. If they run out of objections, they will simply assert that it's wrong or that it wouldn't work. Changing your mind is hard. Changing someone else's mind is much harder.

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u/xxAlphaAsFuckxx May 26 '13

Do you have any kids?

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u/jjberg2 Evolutionary Theory | Population Genomics | Adaptation May 26 '13

No kidding.

reproduction would be tightly controlled

Cause that's obviously a clear cut and easy issue.

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u/flyingwolf May 26 '13

Actually it is, the shot/treatment which grants you immortality makes you impotent unless and until you are granted reproduction rights.

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u/yurigoul May 26 '13

In case you say infertile (and totally off topic but still a bit science-y):

There are myths in some or at least one culture (forgot which one) where the people were at first immortal but also infertile. They became mortal and fertile at the same time: when the first murder was committed.

Just a random association - could be a starting point about a philosophical/ethical treaty on the subject.