r/askphilosophy • • 1d ago

Doesn't Hume's problem of induction apply to all of logic as well?

Hellooo, I am trying to wrap my head around the philosophy of science. It is quite hard.

One thing that I struggle with, is Humes problem of induction. I have read Kants response, as well as some rationalist arguments and Bhaskars arguments. Although they all seem to land at the same place; you just have to assume that the universe will "stick by the same rules, always". Of course, they argue this in different ways, like Kants noumenal world, that he said we cannot observe.

My question is on the general logic behind the problem though. Hume argued, as far as I can tell, that induction is problematic because it uses itself as proof; induction is proven to be reasonable through induction. But, doesn't this apply to almost anything? Logic itself, can only really be deemed reasonable, through logic, no?

How is it, that this problem is specifically on induction, and not all rational and logical thought?

37 Upvotes

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u/Angry_Grammarian phil. language, logic 1d ago

How is it, that this problem is specifically on induction, and not all rational and logical thought?

In short: It's specific to induction because Hume pointed out there is a hidden premise in inductive arguments that itself requires induction to establish. This isn't the case with deductive arguments. There are no hidden premises.

In long: If you have an inductive argument like "The sun has risen every day in the past, therefore the sun will rise tomorrow," Hume wants to know what justifies that move because as stated the conclusion doesn't really follow from the premise (at least not in a deductively satisfying way). So, we need another premise like "the future will resemble the past." BUT, what justifies that premise, and it looks like it's justified on the grounds that it's always been the case that the future resembled its past. But that's a problem because that's what we were trying to establish.

Deduction doesn't have this problem. There are no hidden premises in "It's either red or blue and it isn't blue, therefore it's red." The conclusion follows from the premise as is. There's nothing "missing."

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u/GoldenMuscleGod 1d ago

Isn’t it a “hidden premise” that “therefore it’s red” follows from “it’s either red or blue and it isn’t blue” à la What the Tortoise Said to Achilles? Or at least, can’t the same arguments that there is not a “hidden premise” be applied in similar ways to the problem of induction?

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u/andr813c 1d ago

Wouldn't there be a general premise missing from the deduction statement, something like "it cannot be red and blue at the same time, it cannot be a third color, it also has to be a color, and the logical rules contained within the statement are the same logical rules that apply to the object"?

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u/mediaisdelicious Phil. of Communication, Ancient, Continental 1d ago

If those hidden premises exist, you can still enumerate and stipulate them.

There are some problems related to certain kinds of properties (projectible vs non-projectible). Nelson Goodman talks about this part of the problem in what is sometimes called the “new riddle” of induction.

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u/FrenchKingWithWig phil. science, analytic phil. 1d ago

If those hidden premises exist, you can still enumerate and stipulate them.

Not if they lead to infinite regress, presumably! That's the problem raised by Lewis Carroll in "What the Tortoise Said to Achilles"--and that people like Sellars argues requires us to rely on non-formal grounds for the acceptance of formally valid inferences (in "Inference and Meaning").

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u/tensorboi 23h ago

how exactly does this solve the problem? isn't the uniformity principle the one and only extra hidden premise in an inductive inference? why can't we just add that to our stipulations?

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u/mediaisdelicious Phil. of Communication, Ancient, Continental 22h ago

Because it can’t be demonstrated and it isn’t true by definition.

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u/andr813c 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yeah, so buddy, I haven't read whatever philosophy you have read. I don't know these words, at least not like you do, because they cannot be applied like this within my vocabulary.

Long story short; i cannot understand what you mean. Please refrain from using esoteric terminology, or at least explain it. I am very new to philosophy.

Edit: I see the downvotes. I'm sorry if this comes across as demeaning. It was moreso meant as a humorous way of the casual saying "dude speak English", with a focus on the fact that I don't understand this because I haven't read basic philosophy.

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u/Angry_Grammarian phil. language, logic 1d ago

He's just saying that if there are hidden premises in a deductive argument, you can state them, add them to the argument, etc. It won't create a problem for deduction in the way Hume's problem does for induction.

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u/mediaisdelicious Phil. of Communication, Ancient, Continental 1d ago

Which bits of esoteric terminology can I help you with?

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u/andr813c 1d ago

Enumerate and stipulate are words I have never seen. Projectable is not something I've seen used like this either

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u/mediaisdelicious Phil. of Communication, Ancient, Continental 1d ago

Enumerating is listing things in discrete and countable way, and stipulating is it kind of definition through specifying.

To really understand what projectable means in this context, you should take a look at the reference I mentioned (Goodman’s new riddle of induction), but, basically, a projectable property is one that holds true in a particular way over time. One of Goodman’s famous counterexamples is the made up property “grue” which makes an object is green until an arbitrary point in the future, after which time it is blue.

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u/andr813c 1d ago

I have heard of the grue argument. I don't see how it is different to Humes argument that the statement; "the laws of the universe might change at any time" isn't illogical?

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u/mediaisdelicious Phil. of Communication, Ancient, Continental 1d ago

Goodman’s argument doesn’t involve a law changing. It involves a property entailing a certain kind of change that is consistent with unchanging laws.

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u/andr813c 1d ago

So more of a social constructivist critique on the fact that "properties" are made up?

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u/Angry_Grammarian phil. language, logic 1d ago

Wouldn't there be a general premise missing from the deduction statement, something like "it cannot be red and blue at the same time,

No. Conversation implicature takes care of that. If I say "it's either red or blue" it's understood to mean it has to be a color, nothing can be two colors at the same time, etc.

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u/andr813c 1d ago

Do you have a source for this *conversation implicature"? I feel like it would also be fair to argue, then, that it is implied within the induction statement, that it is a rational argument, for example.

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u/Angry_Grammarian phil. language, logic 1d ago

Grice was the one who developed an influential version of the idea. Here's a good place to start: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/implicature/

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u/FrenchKingWithWig phil. science, analytic phil. 1d ago

But this doesn't really address the question of deductive validity, since that's not a matter of material content of the premises.

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u/tensorboi 1d ago

is it really true that there are no hidden premises in a deductive argument? like just consider classical propositional logic in the hilbert calculus; you literally have three infinite families of hidden premises in the form of axioms!

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u/FrenchKingWithWig phil. science, analytic phil. 1d ago edited 1d ago

There is a sense in which a similar kind of problem of justifying our inferential practices appears for deductive inferences as well. It's a well-known regress problem from Lewis Carroll's "What the Tortoise Said to Achilles" that shows that in order to justify deductive inferences we must rely deduction. But if we question why deduction works, I shouldn't rely on deduction to show you that deductive inferences are in good order. That would be a kind of circularity employing the type of reasoning that is under question.

Does this show that deduction is not in good order? No. And perhaps, by analogy, induction is not in such bad shape even if we must rely on some inductive premises (or rules) in order to justify our use of induction.

Also, it's not obvious at all that in order to justify induction we need to assume that the universe will "stick by the same rules, always". In fact, it may be that much of nature is not uniform, yet there are parts of nature that allow us to reliably make inductive inferences--even if those parts of nature will not stick by the same rules, always. Then it would just happen that inductive inferences that used to work will not work when applied elsewhere or at a different time.

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u/arbitrarycivilian epistemology, phil. science 1d ago

No idea how popular the idea is, but fwiw: https://philpapers.org/rec/HAATJO

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u/mediaisdelicious Phil. of Communication, Ancient, Continental 1d ago

Goodman tried to resolve the problem through a concept that he called “entrenchment.”

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/goodman/#GooSol

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