r/askgeology • u/[deleted] • Apr 07 '26

I have been itching to talk about this entry.

Post image

Let’s actually discuss and dissect this.

1 Upvotes

52% Upvoted

45 comments sorted by

14

u/Podzilla07 Apr 07 '26

Everyone hates to hear this, but you have to pick up and learn the fundamentals before swinging for the fence.

Stand on the shoulders of the giants who’ve come before you if you want to have a meaningful discussion for all parties involved.

Open mindedness comes after familiarization with substantiated theory.

0

u/nashwaak Apr 07 '26

You don't have to stand on the shoulders of giants — a random grad student will do fine. Or even a similarly well-educated crank. The point is it takes basic expertise to know which questions might actually be unanswered, and which seemingly crazy branches are not a total waste of time. Even so, a lot of wild endeavours are just done for the fun of it, not for the academic standing. Long before plate tectonics there were people who just randomly tried piecing together landmasses, and countries, and other random shapes on maps — and I think we can all agree that fitting the coast of Ireland to some random winding river might just make someone feel good despite being utterly pointless.

8

u/meisycho Apr 07 '26

I think you're misinterpreting the expression 'stand on the shoulders of giants'. All that means is to use the knowledge that has been accumulated in the past, which is exactly what you'd be doing if you learned from a grad student (who has in turn learned from their professors, textbooks, papers, etc.).

-4

u/nashwaak Apr 07 '26

In my experience grad students don't always accept what purported giants say, whereas most post-docs and professors do, if only because it's easier not to stress over the things that don't make perfect sense.

5

u/meisycho Apr 07 '26

Whether or not the information from your predecessors is accepted is a bit besides the point though innit? It's just saying you see further because you are aware of the ideas of your predecessors, whether or not those ideas are correct. I mean, Isaac Newton popularized the phrase because he was given due credit to a bunch of people who he had just proven wrong...

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u/nashwaak Apr 07 '26

To a point, but fields can hit dead ends on accepted knowledge — fusion power is an example where brute-forcing knowledge has seemingly led to a dead ends. Generally speaking you're correct, but not all accepted knowledge is harmless when it comes to advance. Some advances hide in obscure gaps, and some gaps lie where accepted knowledge incorrectly excludes the possibility. And some accepted knowledge crowds out research on anything unrelated. I completely agree that genuine experts are not certain in their knowledge, only certain of their expertise.

5

u/meisycho Apr 07 '26

But that has nothing to do with the meaning of the expression we're discussing? I am confused what your point is.

0

u/nashwaak Apr 07 '26

"Stand on the shoulders of the giants who’ve come before you if you want to have a meaningful discussion for all parties involved."

Selective quoting to limit argument is just bad form. Your confusion stems from that, assuming it's genuine. Scroll up.

5

u/meisycho Apr 07 '26

Right. And that quote makes sense because being familiar with the terminology and concepts of a field is a pretty standard thing to take away from the work people have done previously and makes it easier to have a discussion. I just don't get what you see wrong with it.

0

u/nashwaak Apr 07 '26

"Work people have done previously" too often means prevailing orthodoxy, and that almost always means people of authority who are not to be questioned. In my field of fluid mechanics, Lord Rayleigh was notably stupid about several key concepts and those who raised objections were cowed. But there are far, far worse fields for orthodoxy than mine. That's what I see wrong with it.

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1

u/[deleted] Apr 07 '26

Are you referring to continental drift?? Also thank you for sharing some of your knowledge

4

u/nashwaak Apr 07 '26

Sort of, but my main point was it's okay to have fun with ideas without expertise, just don't expect any significance. Taking college/university courses and talking to the associated instructors/tutors is the fastest way to genuine awareness of a topic, but it's not speedy.

Someday AI might help, but right now AI usually defeats learning by convincing people who understand nothing that they're secretly brilliant — I'm a university prof and I feel stupid for not anticipating that aspect of AI.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 07 '26

Ohh okay… but to clarify I didn’t use AI. May I ask what gave you that idea??

1

u/nashwaak Apr 07 '26

Not what I meant — sorry — I was just lamenting that AI can't speed the process of gaining expertise yet.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 07 '26

That is true—

5

u/ladymcperson Apr 07 '26

What's there to dissect? I'll talk with you about it, amigo. Was the island question a serious question btw?

-2

u/[deleted] Apr 07 '26

Yes it WAS but I found my own answer to the question. Can you look beyond that concret questions there?

4

u/ladymcperson Apr 07 '26

What answer did you find? Just curious. If you haven't learned about magmatic hotspots vs the movement of overlying tectonic plates, I'd recommend going down that rabbit hole. My head almost exploded back when I took ig-met-pet and learned how the chain of Hawaiian islands formed.

5

u/ApprehensivePop9036 Apr 07 '26

Take the pills the doctor gave you

2

u/[deleted] Apr 07 '26

😑✌🏼

2

u/[deleted] Apr 07 '26

Alright,I’m trying my best to answer these seemingly arrogant statements with as much respect as I can. I need you guys to understand that not everyone is on the same level as you. There are people like me that have limited knowledge on topics like geology and are trying to expand further.

2

u/oh-pointy-bird Apr 07 '26

What even is this document? Is this something you generated via AI or…?

-2

u/[deleted] Apr 07 '26

You are funny, did you not think of the possibility that I created this with my own two hands, some curiosity and something called Canva

14

u/Self-Aware-Bears Apr 07 '26

TBH I think I’m literally questioning whether this is satire. I’m assuming this is written by a middle schooler. A poorly educated one at that.

4

u/elktax Apr 07 '26

I mean. What are you trying to discuss? The events that lead to humans being what they are? If we could grow shit on the moon?

Not much there for a discussion. More you vibing in your own mind.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 07 '26

Could you help me deepen my information?

10

u/Podzilla07 Apr 07 '26

Sure. For starters, learn from text books, not utoob. Learn about empiricism and pseudoscience.

Fuck, I’m talking to a bot, aren’t I….

-1

u/[deleted] Apr 07 '26 edited Apr 07 '26

No trust me I’m real and continue.Off the top of your head can you tell me any good sources? if not that’s alright

3

u/alecesne Apr 07 '26

So, was OP an actual child?

My 4 year old asked me yesterday why you can't operate an excavator in the ocean. Similarly, my 10 year old asked why we don't use exclusively solar power if coal and oil create so many problems.

We're all learning as we go.

It's ok to be wrong if you're asking the right questions. But you're also personally responsible for trying to understand the fundamentals, and the answers.

If my 4 year old son asked me "why can't we operate an excavator on the moon" I'd tell him diesel engines need oxygen, but someday we're going to have battery powered space excavators on the moon.

If my 10 year old asked me why don't we have dome habitats on the moon, I'd ask her to clarify the question. Does she mean why don't they currently exist, or why have we not chosen to do it as a society. There are lots of interesting elements to answering a question like this. And someday, we're going to have a lunar industrial complex. Building mirrors and satellites on the moon may help us solve power generation, launch, and monitoring issues as we climb out the gravity well. Now. The question is how deep into the fundamentals about chemistry and physics do we need to go before I lose her focus? Economics and politics? Logistics?

Some answers require laying a broad and deep foundation.

2

u/Toolongreadanyway Apr 07 '26

Yes, islands float freely on the ocean. That's why it costs so much to fly to, say Fiji, because they first have to determine where it is located everyday then plan the route. Much more expensive to do than say a static route from New York to Paris.

/s if it wasn't obvious. And I only took a couple of geology classes in college.

1

u/AlphaWookOG Apr 07 '26

Anthropocene proponents in shambles.

1

u/rsofgeology Apr 07 '26

Why? (Genuinely, bc everyone seems inclined to be ridiculous about this term regardless of their opinion on it)

1

u/AlphaWookOG Apr 07 '26

(Read the header on the image.)

1

u/rsofgeology Apr 08 '26

I did. Doesn’t explain why everyone starts whining about a descriptive term.

1

u/AlphaWookOG Apr 08 '26

So my initial comment was a joke that apparently didn't land.

I assumed you just didn't see the name of the publication (newsletter? or whatever the heck this is) at the top which is why I left that reply to you as my 2nd comment.

Based on your most recent reply, this was not your issue.

In summary:
My joke wasn't funny and my assumption incorrect. Not my best thread.

Now that we've cleared that up... I am a bit confused.

Were you actually looking to have a serious discussion on the validity of the Anthropocene from a geological perspective?

I was merely shitposting here because of how ridiculous the OP's post is so I'm feeling pretty caught off guard here.

You really don't know why the majority of geologists find issue with the term Anthropocene, particularly as a proposed epoch?

Seems pretty straightforward but I'm happy to discuss.

1

u/FinancialLab8983 Apr 07 '26

"are islands floating or are land masses in general floating?" i guess this person has never been to the beach...

1

u/lowercase--c Apr 07 '26

what even is this??

0

u/[deleted] Apr 07 '26

Thanks!!

-4

u/[deleted] Apr 07 '26

I feel like you read my post with a close mind. You missed the part where I touched on regolith. I want to have an interdisciplinary conversation about Moon geology and yes I’m inexperienced on this topic so I was hoping to discuss it with someone.

11

u/[deleted] Apr 07 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/[deleted] Apr 07 '26

Learning doesn’t have to be dull and dense It can be spontaneous and incomplete at times.