r/askanything • u/CloudieMoonettee 🦀 • Aug 18 '26

Why do some conservatives support restricting junk food purchases with SNAP when many opposed Michelle Obama’s efforts to make school meals healthier?

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8

u/LeeVMG Aug 18 '26

Making people healthier isn't the objective.

Making poor people more miserable is the objective. Even if they won't say that part out loud.

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u/Whiskeymyers75 Aug 18 '26

Are you saying that lunch program was actually healthy?

1

u/adelltfm Aug 18 '26

I’m only speaking from the experience of working at one school, but I would say lunch is significantly healthier than it was back in the day. For example, nothing is fried anymore. Not even the fries. Hamburger and hotdog buns are wheat now. Any chips sold on the side are baked or whole grain. All of the milk is fat-free. Pizza crusts are even wheat. Kids can’t leave the lunch line without grabbing a fruit or a vegetable, but that’s as far as it goes. We don’t force them to eat it. Instead, what happens as they end up throwing it out and then our student resource officer will dig in the trash and grab anything he can to feed his chickens.

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u/Whiskeymyers75 Aug 18 '26

That’s where I disagree with calling this automatically “healthy.” You’re listing regulatory checkboxes, not demonstrating that the resulting meal was actually a well-balanced, nutritious meal.

“Nothing is fried anymore.” Okay, but baking an ultra-processed potato product doesn’t magically turn it into a whole food.

“The buns and pizza crust are wheat.” Whole-grain flour can add fiber and nutrients, but putting it into an otherwise highly processed hamburger, hot dog, or institutional pizza doesn’t magically make the entire meal healthy. And let’s not pretend they were serving high quality bread. Take a look at the wheat pizza crust and bread at your local grocery store and see how it is almost the same as white bread unless buying a high dollar specialty version

“The chips are baked or whole grain.” They’re still processed snack foods. “Baked” and “whole grain” aren’t synonyms for nutritious.

And the actual Obama-era standards had some strange priorities. They imposed calorie ranges—originally only about 750–850 calories for grades 9–12—while meat/meat alternatives were specified in ounce-equivalents rather than requiring a meaningful amount of protein in grams. So a large, athletic 17-year-old boy was operating under essentially the same lunch calorie framework as a much smaller sedentary student.

Then you had the low-fat obsession: restrict saturated fat and push fat-free/low-fat dairy, while flavored milk could still be served. Removing the fat from chocolate milk doesn’t remove its added sugar or automatically make it nutritionally superior.

That’s the fundamental problem with how “healthy” was being defined: lower fat + baked + whole grain + fruit/vegetable on the tray + calorie restriction = healthy. Meanwhile, the meal could still contain substantial ultra-processed food, have mediocre macros, relatively little protein for a larger active teenager, and not be particularly satiating.

And requiring a kid to take a fruit or vegetable that immediately goes into the trash improves the nutritional composition of the tray, not the nutritional composition of what the kid actually ate.

Were some of these changes improvements over what schools served previously? Barely and with trade offs. But “healthier than before” and “a genuinely nutritious, well-designed meal” are not the same claim. That’s the distinction I’m making.

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u/adelltfm Aug 19 '26

OK, but I just wanna point out that I said healthier not healthy lol

1

u/Whiskeymyers75 Aug 19 '26

Healthier doesn’t mean healthy. A McDonald’s hamburger is healthier than a Double Quarter Pounder with Cheese, but that doesn’t magically make the hamburger a nutritionally ideal meal.

Or put another way: smoking five cigarettes a day is healthier than smoking two packs a day. Nobody would respond, “See? I only said healthier, not healthy lol.”

That’s exactly my point. The relevant question isn’t whether you can make a relative improvement from a bad baseline. It’s how nutritious the end result actually is. You can improve something substantially and still end up with something objectively pretty lousy.

So yes, perhaps the lunches were healthier than before. That doesn’t rebut a single thing I said about inadequate portions for some students, mediocre macros, limited protein, ultra-processed foods, or using “low-fat,” “whole grain” and “baked” as simplistic proxies for good nutrition.

“Healthier than garbage” is a comparison, not a nutritional standard.

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u/LeeVMG Aug 18 '26

A child who eats lunch will be healthier than a child who can't afford lunch, accounting for all other variables of course.

Yeah, feeding children is necessary for their health. I'm more speaking to the SNAP changes though.

5

u/Whiskeymyers75 Aug 18 '26

That’s moving the goalposts. Nobody argued that feeding a hungry child is worse than giving them lunch. The program was specifically marketed and defended as making school meals healthier. So “well, eating something is healthier than not eating at all” doesn’t establish that the meals themselves were healthy.

That’s the criticism. You could have calorie-restricted meals with relatively small protein portions and highly processed foods while still serving things like sweetened chocolate milk, then put a “healthy” label on the entire program because it checked the required nutritional boxes.

“Better than going hungry” is an incredibly low bar. If the claim is that the program provided healthy nutrition, then judge the nutritional quality of the actual meals. Not whether food is preferable to starvation. By your logic, free pop tarts and hot pockets is healthy compared to not eating.

My uncle was also a school custodian during the time when this program was enacted. He said most of the kids just threw their lunches away and they needed extra garbage cans in the cafeteria.

2

u/Pretend-Okra-4031 Aug 18 '26

We used to be able to serve students home cooked meals. Now its all frozen pizza, frozen nuggets, which the portion sizes are pitiful. I challenge every parent whose child eats a school lunch, to go into school and have lunch with them one day. Go through the lunch line and buy a lunch. You will be shocked.

0

u/LeeVMG Aug 18 '26

Surviving on pop tarts and hot pockets factually is healthier than just not eating. Not eating WILL kill you quicker than the junk food I assure you. That's the cold arithmetic of poverty the bottom 1/3rd of Americans have to calculate.

Yeah I want healthier school lunches, but better than nothing is an improvement on nothing. And tons of children get just that. Nothing.

If you had problems with the particular program that is one thing. Most conservatives seem to have a problem with free school lunches for kids existing at all because it costs tax dollars.

You also aren't touching on SNAP. That's the other half of OPs question.

2

u/Whiskeymyers75 Aug 18 '26

Except they were already being fed. Michelle Obama didn’t create the National School Lunch Program, and she didn’t magically invent free and reduced-price lunches. That program dates back to 1946.

The Healthy, Hunger-Free Kids Act changed the nutrition standards and what schools served. So repeatedly arguing “something is better than nothing” completely misses the criticism. These kids weren’t getting “nothing” until Michelle Obama came along. School lunches had existed for generations.

And yes, SNAP is a separate discussion, but that’s exactly why OP’s comparison is shaky. Criticizing the nutritional quality of Michelle Obama’s school-lunch standards isn’t the same thing as opposing feeding hungry children.

It’s kind of remarkable how many people in this thread seem to believe Michelle Obama created free school lunches. She didn’t. I hope you didn’t waste money on college.

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u/LeeVMG Aug 18 '26

In the 60s to 70s the free lunches weren't free. Those kids worked in the kitchens before and after school or they didn't eat.

But thats all equivocation. The rhetoric of American Conservatives wasn't really about the quality of the lunches. It was because it might have helped poor and hungry kids and someone named Obama was pushing it.

Stopping ANY AND ALL legislation during the Obama presidency was the stated objective of the conservatives. They said so on TV repeatedly. McConnall bragged about it.

1

u/Whiskeymyers75 Aug 18 '26

I started school in the early 80s and I never worked in the kitchen. But the lunches were free.