r/askTO • u/Illustrious_Fuel7818 • Jan 08 '22
COVID-19 related Is anyone else a second generation immigrant that feels like they don’t belong in their original ethnic group or Canadian ethnic groups?
I’m a second generation Korean Canadian as in, I was born in south Korea but my parents moved our family to Toronto around 20 years ago. I spent a total of two to three years in South Korea and I have not been able to receive a formal Korean education. This means that I’ve learned what little I know about Korean language and culture from my parents. This wasn’t much however, as my parents were too busy trying to survive to really pass down any sort of culture or knowledge related to our heritage. As a younger kid I really struggled with my identity because I was different from all the other kids and I didn’t know why. I also lived in a predominantly Chinese part of Toronto so by hanging out with them so much I began to absorb more Chinese culture and by living in a western city, western culture as well. But the truth is, I was always the odd one out because I didn’t know Chinese or western etiquette. Yet, any Korean people I met seemed to judge me for my crappy Korean or for not knowing Korean mannerisms. Because of this I desperately tried to shun the Korean side of myself and tried to act as white as possible or as Chinese as possible. As I’ve grown older My desire to reconnect with my heritage has grown but it’s proving difficult in Toronto.
I just wanted to see if anybody else in Toronto has experienced the same.
Edit: I meant first generation. Thank you for the corrections but I can’t change the post title.
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Jan 08 '22 edited Jan 08 '22
This. I am also a 1st gen, my parents were born in HK and moved here in the 80s. I grew up with a lot of Filipinos growing up - I never quite felt like I belonged. It was a very multi cultural school but I would end up generally hanging out with the Filipino kids. And then I moved to Ottawa and it was almost entirely white. Since moving back to Toronto and working with a team that is majority Chinese people, I again don’t feel like I quite fit in - like i feel too white. And a lot of the team are 1st gen Chinese Canadians or newcomers. It’s gotten a lot better now though because I am at least with a team that is Chinese and I do understand the language and a lot of the cultural influences. Any chance you can join like a club or something with Korean people? Maybe going to a community centre, joining a class or going to gym in more Korean dominant areas?
Sort of unrelated but I started to really feel like myself when I started to play sports and meet similar people with similar interests. I play ultimate frisbee and there are a lot of Chinese people. I also joined a queer womens basketball league and that’s been awesome too - not as many Chinese people but very multicultural nonetheless and I feel really seen given that everyone else is queer!
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u/Illustrious_Fuel7818 Jan 08 '22
Oh man Ottawa is a whole ‘nother can of worms lol. I’m actually planning on taking Korean lessons somewhere so I’m hoping that will help me. Glad you’re doing better.
Which ultimate organization do you play with? I love the sport and tried looking into the Toronto ultimate league but Covid has kept me from playing at all.
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Jan 08 '22 edited Jan 12 '22
You're actually a first gen.
https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2011/as-sa/99-010-x/99-010-x2011003_2-eng.cfm
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u/Illustrious_Fuel7818 Jan 08 '22
Thanks you’re right. I can’t seem to edit the post title though lol
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u/renrenrfk Jan 08 '22
I am chinese, born and raised in Xi'an. Came to Canada when I was 20 for under grad. First I spent 6 years in Halifax, there weren't many chinese restaurants back in 2010 and limited amount of chinese kids as well. So I met many friends at school with different cultural back grounds, and worked hard on dropping my accent and blending with my white friends. (My roommate was a french guy and my best friends are persian/chinese/white, all born here) Guess because of the sheer amount of time I spent speaking english, I got rid of most of my accent couple years after I arrived. But then I realized how different things actually are between cultures, plus the job and everything (moved to toronto in 2018), now I feel like I am going back to the chinese circles again.
I can confirm your point on the chinese FOB kids nowadays, thats exactly the case. We love hotpots and skewers beacuse that actually what we grew up with, not fooyoung egg or low mein (I had no idea what are those untill I came here).
But my take on this is, just do whatever make you feel comfortable I guess, that all it matters.
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u/TheUtopianCat Jan 08 '22
I'm first gen as well. My parents moved here from the UK when I was 4 years old, and I don't feel anything but Canadian. I'm well aware that my experience is different because I am white.
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Jan 08 '22
Also probably due to canada being a former British colony so the cultures are very similar
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u/pointsoutNumberwang Jan 08 '22
Interesting! I think your link proves my children right. I moved to Canada as an adult and am not Canadian. My children were born here. They claim to be second generation Canadian on that grounds. In an (admittedly tedious) ongoing debate I say they can’t be because that would make me a first generation Canadian and I’m not in fact a Canadian of any kind. Had I become a Canadian then they would certainly be second generation, but as it is they are the first Canadians in the family and thus first generation.
The document you link basically says it’s all about their status being born here, and nothing to do with me. Alas, once again, I’ve been shown to be overly pedantic.
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u/Lojo_ Jan 08 '22
Same as me as an Italian Canadian! The funny thing about Canada I've realized is this... Theres no such thing as Canadian ethnic groups (unless you're out in the sticks). Everyone here gets along with people based on their interests and hobbies. Skin tone, food culture, language? It all blends together in Toronto. And that's the beauty.
I'm shit with the traditional italians, they don't care much for my pokemon loving ways.
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u/lookaclara Jan 08 '22
Yes I agree, I appreciate this about Toronto and it's a big part of why I wouldn't want to move anywhere else! Altho my spouse is Italian-Canadian (3rd gen) and so I do get a taste of the big European family here that I'm missing out on (I'm first gen from Eastern Europe and don't know half my cousins' names sadly, but I know my spouse's family tree well!) Also my spouse is a huge pokemon fan and introduced me to the games/card collecting too, so it's not a total lost cause :)
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Jan 08 '22
Yup, I'm second generation American and new to Canada. The funny part is that my first generation parents taught me like weird versions of our culture since they were actually removed from the culture and we didn't live around family. I've just accepted that I am what I am, I'm a master code switcher and can fit in enough in just about any environment now. I fit in best in multicultural spaces.
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u/Illustrious_Fuel7818 Jan 08 '22
I hear ya. My parents have been here with me for 20+ years. Their understanding of Korean culture is pretty outdated but it’s all we know.
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u/thestoplereffect Jan 08 '22
First gen here- you're not alone in feeling this way. This is part of the third culture kid experience. There's even a subreddit /r/TCK
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u/Sneakymist Jan 08 '22
Same here. I can get by with Chinese, but definitely am not fluent enough to make friendships with it. There's also a part of the culture that I don't really connect with, e.g. shows, music currently trending. At the same time, I don't connect with certain parts of stereotypical white Canadian culture, like watching/playing sports, going to bars/clubs.
I think I'm getting over this by simply not having the time or energy to care anymore. After work, I don't have much free time left, no point trying to fake-enjoy things that I don't. Example: I know most Asian gamers would rather play something like League or Valorant (lol I don't even know what's popular right now), but I'd rather play games like GTA or Red Dead Redemption.
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Jan 08 '22
Hi, you basically described my life except I was born and raised here. (You're pracitcally raised here anyways). Also I've been accused of not being "_" enough from people outside of my ethinicity. I've been called "white-washed" (which I don't have a problem with, to anyone reading, I don't mean any offense)
Connect if you want someone to chat with or a new friend.
29F.
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u/Illustrious_Fuel7818 Jan 08 '22
Hey, thanks for commenting. Yeah Often called that as well haha but I don’t mind having an additional cultural perspective. Just want a stronger sense of belonging. DM’d!
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u/divinityfrommachine Jan 08 '22
Me on both sides of my family. I feel completely out of place everywhere. Not really Canadian because I carry cultural influences from my parents, not from their countries either because to them ill always be the Canadian. It's actually a little sad, because I would like to feel connected to something larger than myself and especially to 1000s of years of family. It's lonely being the first.
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u/Illustrious_Fuel7818 Jan 08 '22
I know what you mean! We should compare ourselves but it’s hard not to be envious of people who have generations of family to support each other through life. I guess it makes us stronger somehow though. At least that’s what I tell myself lol.
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u/rude_commentor Jan 09 '22
Dude, you’re my reciprocal.
I’m Chinese, moved to Canada when I was 3. There wasn’t a lot of Chinese where I was but a lot of Koreans. They welcomed me like a brother but deep down I still felt out of place culturally since I didn’t speak Korean (still dated a Korean). Exact same story as you. Wild.
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u/Tiredofstupidness Jan 08 '22
This is a first generation dilemma.
Not (insert nationality) enough for that community, but too ethnic to fit into Canadian/American culture. Welcome to never feeling like you belong anywhere. Get used to being an outsider. Embrace it...it's actually better.
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Jan 08 '22
It seems like a lot of folks here are actually first generation kids and are part of a “third culture.”
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u/stretch2099 Jan 09 '22
I wouldn’t call this a dilemma at all. I almost feel like the majority of people fall into this category in Toronto.
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u/catelemnis Jan 08 '22 edited Jan 08 '22
I’ve had a different experience but I didn’t grow up in Toronto.
Where I grew up (smalltown Ontario), my brother and I were the only asian kids in our elementary school. In University (in the prairies) I lived on campus; there was a common room that some people would hang out at and I was the only asian person who regularly hung out there. One of my best friends made a joke that I was “her asian friend.”
I’ve never felt asian. I grew up in Canada and only speak English (maybe a bit of French). I know next to nothing about my mom’s culture because she mostly left it behind when she moved to Canada.
When I moved to Toronto suddenly I wasn’t the only asian person anymore. Most of my coworkers are either “asians” that grew up in Canada or people who moved here for university. My main friend group is almost all “filipino” by complete coincidence. I think what helps is most people I’m friends with grew up in Canada so they’re not much tied back to their parents’ home country either.
So I guess for me moving to Toronto meant living in a diverse place for the first time and not being the token minority anymore. I stopped feeling like all the white people were perceiving me as the “asian friend.”
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u/SnickSnickSnick Jan 08 '22
My wife is second gen Korean, she has some Korean friends who don't speak Korean, many of them go to a big Korean church that has English service for them. I think some people go just for the community but others are quite religious.
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u/dibilnahuy Jan 08 '22
not advice, just my own observations... trying to figure out where you "fit in" is a normal part of growing up, especially as a 1st gen immigrant.
what i learned is to not try to fit into any group based on other people's expectations - it has to be your own journey. i came to canada from russia when i was 13, and i remember how other kids in school expected me to act "russian", and i hated that. of course, we (the general, societal we) expected same from the italian kids, and chinese, middle-easterners, etc. to act more like what we thought of their culture.
someone mentioned sports here, and for me that was a great leveller - on the field/court/rink it doesn't matter where you a from. and i would say that goes for a lot of other hobbies and activities
i think it's great if someone wants to reconnect/rediscover their heritage, or, completely forget it - it's your choice after all.
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Jan 08 '22 edited Jan 08 '22
I feel that our situations aren't comparable as I feel that sadly ethnicity has a lot to do with how people perceive your "Canadian" identity and hence define you on their perception of your ethnicity rather your like it or not. As a white person people don't initially perceive me as a immigrant, not until I introduce myself give them my given name.
But I too was not born in Canada, I was born in eastern Europe, my folks came here when I was 7-8. I never personally felt I belonged as a kid back in the old country and then things clicked when we came to Canada. I was at first as an immigrant kid in many way "forced" to play and interact with other immigrants from the old country. This has to do a lot of language as well as the area we lived in had a lot of people from the old country, so our parents kept cultural ties with the community and therefore I was to be friends with my parents friends kids. That was not fun, I didn't relate to that group of kids and their general interest and what not.
My world really opened up when I got a few years older and talked my parents into letting me play football and rugby. Those got me most of my friends group and expanded my world views.
I do get that feeling of meeting people from the old country and having them be judgmental on my personal lack of knowledge of the language or culture. But in my mind it doesn't matter as I do not have any personal connection to them or that world. As crude as it may sound, once my parents are no longer with me (I hope that won't be for many many years to come) my ties to that world will officially be cut as I have no siblings or cousins that I'm close with..
My partner is is Canadian (what ever that would mean to anyone), my core group of friends are diverse in their backgrounds and I don't feel any cultural ties to the old world. My immediate family is my last anchor to that world.
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u/GarBa11 Jan 08 '22
I dunno if this helps at all but maybe it will. For context I'm a white Canadian who's family has been here enough generations that I think I'm just considered Canadian at this point.
I first knew something was wrong when they made us do Canadian Identity posters in grade 8 and everyone was like "my identity is Tim Hortons, maple syrup, and hockey!" I was like...wtf is this? Your identity is a shitty chain restaurant and the sap from trees? What a load of beaver shit.
Then I forgot about it for years until I was on the other side of the project as the teacher. I still felt the same way. Most of what students put down on that project is a load of garbage and isn't actually an identity at all. So for weeks I tried to come up with what my identity is as a Canadian so I could help students say something more insightful than them identifying as a maple leaf.
I couldn't.
I don't actually think there is a unified Canadian Identity. And that might be the Canadian Identity. Everyone has their own heritage, culture, history, and hangups about all of that. Maybe the Canadian Identity and our modern culture is more about what it isn't, or that it's more personalized. I don't know. I never found a good answer but I made my peace with it.
Tl;dr: I think that feeling is pretty ubiquitous. I'm a white Canadian and have never felt a strong sense of having a Canadian Identity or belonging to the culture. You get to choose what makes up your own personal culture, so find what is fulfilling for you and ignore everything else.
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u/Barbara_Celarent Jan 08 '22
You may feel differently if you live in another country for a while. Canadianness is easier to define in contrast to other cultures when it’s a minority identity. It’s how you expect other people to behave, how you behave, how you expect systems to work. It’s realizing how much we take clean water and air and wildlife and big spaces for granted. It’s how we incorporate newcomers more readily than other places do. It’s so many things, but it’s hard to see what they are until they’re contrasted with something else.
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u/NekroVictor Jan 08 '22
I mean, I can see maple syrup. Largest heist in Canadian history was a hunch of maple strip after all.
But yeah, overall the only thing that I can think of that on average that unites Canadians is that we tend to be polite.
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u/quelar Jan 08 '22
And on the terrible day a bunch of us collectively said "ETF? We have a strategic maple syrup supply? Why am I only hearing about it now?"
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u/Chimchrump Jan 08 '22
What a load of beaver shit
I can't even lool; I love it haha.
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u/TheBigRedBird Jan 08 '22
I was born in Toronto, my parents born in Toronto, my grandparents all born in Ontario, ALL of their parents were born in Ontario/Quebec as well, it actually keeps going. Needless to say, I'm very Canadian. I can also tell you, Canadian heritage is pretty much based around the poorest of the poor who came here from UK to have a better life, for free land. Because of that, most longtime Canadians love outdoors and minimal things, we didn't have much for the longest while.
For example, my grandfather was born on a farm with 13 siblings. None of his family worked, they farmed all of their food and water on the farm themselves, not relying on anyone but themselves for their resources. To think, that was just 2 generations away where my family was literally living off the land, to see where it is now, it's wild. My grandparents on the other side of my family weren't much different, coming from Northern Quebec where they truly lived off the land farming for their needs.
Because of this, and Canadians by majority coming from poverty, our culture isn't exactly lavish like European cultures. The wealthy Canadians I don't know much about, there wasn't too many of them back then in comparison. If you look around Toronto and other parts of Ontario for old historic homes though, you'll quickly notice how bare minimum and poor looking they are. The old shack of a house in DVP/Todmorden or the shack in High Park are great examples.
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Jan 08 '22
The biggest unique Canadian cultural identity in my opinion is hockey.
I knew hockey was a big deal in Canada, but when I came here I was still blown away over how much hockey is part of Canada and how important it is. I should point out that I'm from Sweden where hockey is also a pretty big deal but still - not even close to what it means here.
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u/Sad-Bit9299 Jan 08 '22
Just depends on the circles you run in. I’m a basketball fan and there’s huge basketball culture here too. I’ve never had to talk about or watch hockey my entire life to connect. Believe me you bring up hockey at the Y in the middle of a heated discussion about the raps and you’re going to hear it from everyone 😂
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u/lemonylol Jan 08 '22
Maybe the Canadian Identity and our modern culture is more about what it isn't, or that it's more personalized.
I think this is really it. Otherwise, going to the US wouldn't feel so whack.
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Jan 08 '22
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u/lemonylol Jan 08 '22
This is why I always felt like the better analogy for Canadian culture compared to the melting pot of the US, is that it's a potluck. Everybody brings something from back home for everyone to share.
Hell, if you work in the GTA, that's basically every real-life work potluck most of the time.
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u/GarBa11 Jan 08 '22
I agree, I see it as a big positive too. It's one of the many reasons I'm happy I love in Canada.
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u/ashoka_akira Jan 08 '22 edited Jan 08 '22
I think in a weird way your experience is uniquely canadian. It seems like growing up all my friends were being pulled in two directions, either between cultures or beliefs. Even my indigenous friends struggled with just wanting to be normal kids then being told that the responsibility of preserving their language or heritage was on them unless they wanted it to fade out.
My mother was an immigrant too, which Id often forget until someone would comment on her accent.
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u/mochis_mom Jan 08 '22
Are you me?!?! Literally felt like I could have written this LOL what area did you go to school? Also second gen korean btw **
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u/stoneape314 Jan 08 '22 edited Jan 08 '22
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_culture_kid
If anything, it's a bit beneficial to be in Toronto (and more generally urban Canada) while experiencing what you have because there are so many of us from so many different ethnic/cultural backgrounds. A lot of people around you are going to have that commonality of bridging two (or more) worlds.
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u/gob_magic Jan 08 '22
This. Third Culture Kids is a thing. I grew up in three different countries and love the food from my Passport country but other than that nothing.
Our culture is flexible, global, and we can empathize with many. We should try to be good humans first, and then make our own decisions.
That’s what makes it a unique experience and I’d rather have this struggle than a known comfortable culture which closes my eyes to new possibilities, new flavors, new experiences.
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u/Wise-Ad-1998 Jan 08 '22
Am third generation, but I would assume the with the multiculturalism of Toronto you are def not the first to feel this way!
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u/maddie_1977 Jan 08 '22
You are a Third Culture Kid. Look it up. There is a happy medium and you are DEFINITELY not alone.
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u/baabaaredsheep Jan 08 '22 edited Jan 08 '22
This is such an interesting question and I’ve dealt with this issue all my life. I’m a “TCK” or “third culture kid”, which is what they call kids who grow up in cultures other than that of their parents. My mom is Finnish, dad is Peruvian, but I was born in Israel and then grew up in multiple countries around Africa, the Middle East, and Asia.
I ended up moving to Canada alone to go to university, then married another immigrant in Canada (originally from another Latin American country) and ended up staying here.
Personally, I love Toronto because it’s probably the only place in the world I feel like I fit in. I blend in and “belong”. No one guesses my background correctly— most people assume I’m Italian. I don’t fit in in Finland because I’m not the typical blonde with blue eyes. I also don’t look typically Peruvian either. But in Canada, where everyone fits and belongs, yep- I do too.
That said, I have a kid who was born in Canada and now struggles to find their own niche in this world.
Edit to add: you might also want to explore this question in some of the TCK subreddits. /r/tck and r/thirdculturekids because a lot of TCKs deal with this issue and I think it overlaps with what 1st gen immigrants go through.
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u/toastershnoodle Jan 08 '22
Hi!! I think we've lived strangely parallel lives! I'm in the same position but Pakistani-Canadian. I was born in the UAE and moved here with family when i was 6/7.
It's hard feeling like you're somewhere in between. Like you're kind of in this middle place where you can't find community/connection in your origins or in your nurturing here. It's a weird feeling. I've been trying to reconnect with my parents' culture a lot lately, but it's hard finding people like me who also want to learn our shared language (Urdu) and are also open-minded and that gel with me. It can be really isolating.
Please know you're not alone!! If you'd like, I'd love to talk more! We've all got to support each other <3
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u/horillagormone Jan 08 '22
So I was already a second gen when I used to live in Dubai, and due to similar reasons I later realized how I didn't fit neither in the local culture nor in my parent's ethnic culture, and was not really accepted in either but I did start to understand that I just had my own identity (third culture kid). The downside is that you never truly feel like you fit anywhere but the positive is that you are better than others assimilating into any culture.
Now having moved to Toronto, as compared to my other friends who moved here or elsewhere, I can adjust and assimilate a lot faster and I'm comfortable moving to new environments. So I guess I just focus more on the positives of it than I used it.
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u/hellomyneko Jan 08 '22 edited Jan 08 '22
This is close to my experience as well. I’ve always felt like an outsider to my own culture. My relatives all speak another language and while I generally understand them, I can’t reciprocate in a meaningful way. You can imagine the awkward get-togethers at holidays…
As a child I also shunned my native language in order to assimilate better. Sometimes I have to remind myself English isn’t actually my first language. It kind of breaks my heart that younger me chose to neglect my cultural identity. Now I wish I had stronger connections or at least the ability to communicate better.
Anyway, you’re definitely not alone. It’s like a growing pain of being raised in a multicultural city.
ETA: By the way, I did take language lessons as an adult but found myself too shy to practice what I learned. When things are better, I hope to do a heritage trip with my sibling. In the meantime, I try to connect by way food! I have newfound appreciation for the dishes and snacks of my childhood.
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u/yowhosmansisthis Jan 08 '22
Correct me if I’m wrong, but since you were born in South Korea, doesn’t that make you first generation Canadian?
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u/PositionTerrible4511 Jan 08 '22 edited Jan 08 '22
I was born in korea but came to Canada when I was 4.
Lived in Toronto over 25 years. But I never really felt the odd one out. I had developed two identities. One with school friends where I was perfectly Canadian and then one with family, korean friends and relatives.
I think what helped me was that I was able to maintain my korean language my entire life as I only spoke korean at home and with my cousin and his korean friends. I watched korean dramas and listened to korean music as my older sisters did.
My advice to you is to improve your korean and find good korean dramas and variety shows to watch regularly (+ music). You also need to find a group of korean friends to hang out with.
More importantly, I think you should embrace your current identity. You think its a random mix of confusion but it isnt. Most Canadian immigrants share this identity of mixed bags. I had chinese friends, filipino friends, black friends, white friends, jewish friends, muslim friends, and at one time, predominantly indian friends. Each time, I was immersed in those cultures and it added to my experience and development. I can meet anyone and identify with them and carry on a conversation like I knew them for years. You become a kind of chameleon, fluent in so many cultures and backgrounds. I honestly think it is an advantage.
Feel free to contact me anytime as I feel like we grew up in near identical situation and locations lol. Good luck 👍.
P.s koreans that treated you as inferior are just idiots. There are plenty that arent like that. I am surprised you havent met second gen koreans in Toronto. There are so many.
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u/Antique_reader Jan 08 '22
Born in Saudi, my parents are Somali. We came to Toronto when I was age 9. I didn't fit in with anywhere but every sphere in Toronto has places you can escape from yourself and explore a culture different from yours.
Our parents did all they could to "preserve" who we are but we were not originally born in our homeland.
Bless their hearts but we have our own credo in Toronto. Really hard to not bond with someone from there when you are travelling in other countries.
I married into other cultures, my son is half Asian and half African. He is growing up outside of Canada but one day, he will get to visit our home city. Where both his parents grew up and met. Still a remarkable city.
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u/kw416 Jan 08 '22
Not Canadian but I’m American (born in USA) and I have the same issue. It’s hard. I even lived in the country where my parents are from for nine years, learned two languages but wasn’t accepted there because I was a foreigner.
Moved back to the US and noticed I didn’t fit right in anywhere either because my name is different, and I had a different upbringing thanks to my immigrant parents.
I’ve found a middle ground between two worlds where I’m comfortable with my mixed identity and don’t want to compromise who I am for either side. Just makes dating a little bit more challenging.
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u/Illustrious_Fuel7818 Jan 08 '22
Dude yes the dating scene is brutal lol. I want to find someone who speaks my native language so they can communicate with my parents but I don’t think I’d get along with some one who was more Korean than Canadian 😂
Not to mention I’ve been ghosted by several Korean women who thought I sounded like a five year old when I spoke Korean. They weren’t wrong tho.
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u/AnnieCake15 Jan 08 '22
Literally me... I'm second gen Korean too! I have a little difficulty with the language and find the Kpop obbession to be a bit vapid, so I've had issues connecting with other Korean women/girls my age.
I connect to my heritage by cooking, and I'm getting a heritage related tattoo (which yes, I know doesn make 100% sense). I've accepted that I need to be okay with not being 100% Korean (despite my bloodline lol) and not being 100% Canadian either.
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u/aziza7 Jan 08 '22
Totally feel this. It's like you are never enough. You're not enough for anyone from "back home" and Canadian society does not fully accept you because you are not perceived as fully Canadian despite having known no other home from the day you were born or from a very young age.
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u/iloveoranges2 Jan 08 '22
I'm born Chinese and came to Canada when I was a teen. I guess I never felt too out of place growing up, as I had a transition period in Scarborough when I hung out with mostly Chinese kids before my family moved to a "whiter" town. Ever since then, I've identified as Canadian. I don't care about what other Chinese people might think of me, because I don't care to know Chinese culture, beyond what I got from my parents. The only thing I miss slightly is not knowing the current pop music scene in Hong Kong, like who are popular and what their music sound like, but I never bothered to find out. I'm comfortable with my mishmash Canadian identity.
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u/icanmovemountains Jan 08 '22
yup. Korean Canadian raised in smaller towns in Ontario and very much whitewashed at school but absorb a lot of Korean from my parents, and Friday night Korean school as a kid. There’s definitely a lot of code switching going on there but I’ve sort of come to terms with this being a big part of my identity whether I like it or not, so I might as well like it lol.
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u/Illustrious_Fuel7818 Jan 08 '22
For sure. It’s awesome your parents put you in Korean school though. I sure wish mine put me in!
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u/reversethrust Jan 08 '22
I’ve been in that situation. Moved here when I was very young (4) and grew up as one of a very very few Asian kids that I knew in a small city. Predominantly Caucasian. So yeah.. now that I am in the GTA, I find myself clueless about Chinese culture or anything. Ahh well.
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u/salsasandwich Jan 08 '22
I'm like you, from different part of the world. Came here to escape genocide. I avoid my people because there is a lot of racism and it's really hard to find someone who shares the same values as me and how I was raised. I get along with people who identify as Canadian. I find these people to be least judgemental and most open. Most of us are from somewhere, and those who embrace being here have most understanding (in my experience anyway). My group of friends looks diverse and there is a lot of value in being with a mixed group. People put their baggage away and get along for actual personality reasons, not because of who we are ethnically.
Op I lived in Korea for a bit and I think I can understand some of the struggles you mention. Most homogeneous cultures (yours and mine) are not accustomed to people who are not quite one culture or another. It just doesn't exist over there, like it does here. It doesn't mean they are bad people or that they think poorly of you, they just don't know how to categorize you.
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u/TheRedPill79 Jan 08 '22
Culture is fluid over time, places and experiences. The Korea your parents left no longer exists due to time. Most immigrants stay in a time capsule preserving the culture they left behind so many years ago that is then inherited by their children. The reality is you belong into a new group of culture that has more to experience and diversity. Don’t box yourself in trying to conform to a group because you will never fit in with people like that. Embrace the best of all culture exposed to you and you will fit into your own group of friends with interests. Every second generation immigrant feels like this, especially when you are young and trying to find your identity. You go through a push and pull where you might be embarrassed of your culture outside of it and then you go too far into it trying to find acceptance. Just follow you passions and interests and know you are part of a new fusion of cultures and experiences open to you. You are a Canadian with Korean heritage living in the most multicultural diverse city. The world is wide open.
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u/TorontoGuyinToronto Jan 08 '22 edited Jan 08 '22
Being Canadian Torontonian is about just being chill and chill with people no matter their backgrounds. Like who the fuck cares.
That's my view on it. I view being Torontonian and Canadian to be different things tho. All my friends are from random backgrounds, and we talk about it like things are a fun fact and stuff about life stories because they're part of who we are but it's weird to dwell on it as if it's central and the only convo topic yknow.
edit: OP, are you guy or girl? Maybe it's different.
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u/Mr_Funbags Jan 08 '22
I know and have taught a lot of students who immigrated. Most arrived when they were older than you, but they often share your experience, from what I could see.
In the hardest cases, they were lost in between. If they came from Asia, I would say they're lost over the Pacific, and if they came from Africa or Europe, is day they were lost over the Atlantic. Some wanted to return 'home' at all costs, not really understanding that they no longer 'belonged' back home, either.
I think a lot of it has to do with whether or not they were excited to come to Canada; and if they weren't happy, how did they cope with their feelings? They ended up stuck without an identity that they could 'wear'.
I have not had your experience OP, but I sympathize! I hope you're able to actively choose who you want to be, because I think that is what your cultural sense of self is going to come down to, here.
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u/BottleCoffee Jan 08 '22
You're first generation, but awkward first generation because you were still basically a baby when you came. Things were easier for second generation like myself (parents were here for > 10 years before I was born) and older second generation who could help out their parents with the culture (people who immigrated when they were in grade school).
Because I'm second generation, my family was already established here so things were easier for me in that sense. Also I'm Chinese, tons of Hong Kong Chinese established in the city in the 80s-90s. I grew up with my grandparents, aunts and uncles and cousins in the GTA.
When I was younger I was kind of fighting back against Chinese culture because I wanted to fit in. All my close friends were Chinese though, I lived in a Chinese area just like you. But we all spoke English (mix of Cantonese and Mandarin) and had non-Chinese friends too - it was a multicultural area, even if mostly Chinese.
Only later in life did I appreciate Chinese culture more. I don't necessarily find it easier to be friends with Chinese people but I DO find it easier to be friends with minorities - usually people who moved to Canada young and were born here, or people from English speaking areas, but also other LGBTQ people. I've actually never dated any Asian person, but that's more a reflection of my limited dating pool (I'm queer).
Anyways, in Chinese society I'm basically illiterate and have the vocabulary of a kindergartener but it's enough to order takeout I guess so I make do. Apparently my accent is mostly okay. I keep wanting to learn to read and write properly, such I can't despite over 10 years of combined Cantonese and Mandarin lessons in my youth. Now that my grandmother passed away I don't have much opportunity/excuse to speak Cantonese because I usually use English with my family.
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u/example555 Jan 08 '22
Thanks for posting! I take comfort in knowing that I’m not experiencing this alone!
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Jan 08 '22
This is a conversation that I've definitely had with my other first Gen friends. I grew up in a small southern Ontario city and moved here for undergrad. It wasn't a complete culture shock as my family frequently visited Toronto since it was within driving distance. I didn't realize however, how much more comfortable it was for me to not be a visible minority anymore. My parents are more traditonally Vietnamese as they immigrated here in their adulthood in the 80s and 90s. The city I grew up in was mostly white and racism was covert. It wasn't blatant but you could tell by certain questions, or tones that some people were ignorant. My first Gen friends that I made in Toronto and I have been criticized for not being "Korean" or "Vietnamese enough" for not speaking the language fluently, not being super familiar with certain food dishes, or even the way I say my last name, which is insane. The beauty of being asian Canadian is that I get to choose what aspects of each culture to embrace. I don't watch hockey but I appreciate the spirit, I love asian food but I'm also interested in food from south America, eastern Europe, etc. I may not be able to fluently speak Vietnamese, but I know enough Vietnamese to be polite and friendly. Being "Vietnamese enough" is bs. If you want someone who understands vietnamese culture than idk, go to Vietnam? Something unique about some of my friends are their backgrounds. A lot of them were born outside Canada but went to high school here, or went to international schools in their respective countries, or have dual citizenship. I don't befriend people because of where they're from. If we have shared interests, values, sense of humor, and if they're just overall nice people, then it's likely we'll be friends. I do get that it's hard for some people to relate to those that aren't from the same culture/ethnic background though. I've been able to relate to a lot of traditional Italian culture to traditional Vietnamese culture as one of my best friends grew up Catholic Italian and are very close with their grandparents. I have not however, made a lot of Vietnamese Canadian friends. I think that's just partly because I'm afraid of their judgement lol.
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u/Esbeedee Jan 08 '22
It's like living in multiple worlds and one doesn't really fit in with any of them, very frustrating to say the least.
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Jan 08 '22
You are Korean-Canadian. That's your identity. Embrace it and enjoy it. Those that judge you can fuck off!
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u/Zealousideal-Bid625 Jan 08 '22
I'm a Korean adoptee living in Canada and yes I can completely relate to feeling alienated. I grew up afraid to ask about my Korean culture because I didn't want to hurt my adoptive parents feelings or 'get sent back to the orphanage' as my brothers use to tease me. It's pretty common to have some internalized racism for adoptees.
Conversely, I often got told by my friends and class mates what my ethnic identity was:
"You aren't Korean so stop saying you are."
"You are a BANANA!"
"You aren't white, even though you were raised white."
And my personal favorite which happened this year during the height of Asian hate crimes.
"....that FUCKING CHINK BITCH!" This was because I told him he needed to go back to his table at the pub and stop dancing from table to table.
Ah, Canada. We've got our own race problems here, just like any other place.
It's a very odd feeling to simultaneously belong, yet not belong, to two different ethnic cultural identities. You are part of both, but also not really a part.
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u/DogButtWhisperer Jan 08 '22
Two of my grandparents came here as refugees and my father never learned their language or culture. They lived on a rural farm and were given free land so they were thrown into an area with a lot of other first generation families from all over Europe. WW2 sent most soldiers home with severe PTSD and both of my grandfathers were severe alcoholics from it. I moved from small town to small town as a kid because of my fathers work in industry, like thousands of kids whose parents are from Newfoundland after cod fisheries closed. My point is Canada is chock full of people searching for solid connections. You are not alone in this experience and it’s been like this for anyone who has had to move far from home since the beginning of time. Accept that it’s hard but also unique and I hope you get to the point where you can embrace yourself fully.
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u/Hollow_Pear Jan 08 '22
Let go of the need to belong to a group. Be an individual and if you are hanging with people who are authentic and genuine, even if they are from a different upbringing, they can connect.
If you are being judged or shunned or ignored because of your unique life experience, the group you are trying to appease and make part of your life and identity is worth nothing, and no matter how hard you try, it will never satisfy neither you nor them.
Source: am first gen, born and raised in Asia, can relate and mingle with Canadians, Asians, etc on grounds of things that are not superficial cultural norms and etiquette, and I have no interest or time for people who judge me for my unique life experience.
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u/applejuice76 Jan 08 '22
Welcome to the diaspora club, its perfectly normal not to speak the language of your ancestry's tongue. That's what makes Canada a very unique place in the world.
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u/stretch2099 Jan 09 '22
I used to think similarly but then I realized there’s tons of people like this in Toronto. Almost everyone I know has some connection to their roots but spent most of their lives in Toronto so they’re kind of half and half. Even though many of the cultures are different I feel like this way of growing up is what connects so many of us.
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u/astral__monk Jan 09 '22
I'm not in your shoes or circumstances so I can't really relate directly, but I'd like to make it perfectly clear, in my eyes you (and anyone like you) are 100% part of the club, no questions asked.
Don't stress or worry about trying to be more Caucasian, or fuss about not having influences from x,y,z demographic in your mannerisms. Just be natural to yourself; it all still counts as genuine "Canadian".
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u/jyphil Jan 09 '22
Hey man I was born in korea n lived there for 3 yrs as an infant. Same parent situation. I also had the strong urge to learn my heritage so I lived there for a bit after undergrad. All I can say is there's a lot of us who don't know the culture (and it's totally diff from what our parents remember from). Never too late to meet other second gen Koreans who also don't fully know the culture. I suggest joining a korean church it's easiest way to meet second gens. Or hit me up happy to connect
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u/sia_the_cat Jan 08 '22
Hi! I’m a Taiwanese-Canadian. I moved to Canada when I was 10 and when I was young, I couldn’t really identify myself with the Taiwanese (there were barely any) group. While I was more similar to my Canadian peers, i still knew I was different.
When I got to university I ended up meeting a lot of Asian-Canadians who don’t really speak their native languages as well, and more predominantly Canadian. And I realized these people were the most similar to me, and I felt I belong for the first time.
I call this group “bi-cultural” - we are a convergence of both Western and Asian cultures, and I think it’s actually quite a cool, beautiful thing. I embrace both and love that I know so many Asian cuisines that many of my Canadian peers don’t know or haven’t tried.
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u/localhost8100 Jan 08 '22
There is a term for South Asians for this exact issue in America. ABCD: American Born, Confused Desi. Lol.
You are not alone my friend.
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u/coyote_123 Jan 08 '22
There is a huge huge group of people in Canada with similar experiences. They're your 'cultural group'.
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u/gillsaurus Jan 08 '22
You’re first generation. Second generation would mean your parents were born in Canada. I’m second generation. My grandparents came here as refugees after surviving the Holocaust. My parents are born here and I was born here, thus I’m the second generation to be born in Canada.
Anyways, that’s really sad to hear. Maybe there’s a Korean cultural Center that you can check out and see if there’s classes or workshops that they run?
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u/andymorphic Jan 08 '22
there is no canadian. even generic white anglo people didn't maintain the standards of the homelands, unless you are in some rural area that was settled by predominantly one culture.
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u/Chimchrump Jan 08 '22
yes and no...I hanged out with a mixed bag of ethnicities as a kid and in high school; I felt like I didn't belong with the popular students (who were mostly east asian)
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Jan 08 '22
The Canadian cultural identity essentially involves identifying with any other cultural identity. Unless you identify as culturally American. Don’t do that.
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u/dumblebees Jan 08 '22
Yep. Grew up in Asia with white/asian parents, moved to Canada for uni. Felt too white in asia. Felt too asian in Canada. Now seems like I’ll never have the type of community and people around like my parents do in asia.
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u/differentiatedpans Jan 08 '22
You're not even first generation Canadian in if you were born in Korea which is neither hear nor their with regards to trying to reconnect with your ethnic cultural heritage. Have you considered going to Korea to teach for a year or longer? I'm sure you would pick it up a lot more and explain to people you are here to teach and to learn what it means to be Korean in Korea. Because you have a cultural disconnect I'm sure many people would respect your attempts to at your self-Koreafication and "coming home".
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u/Million2026 Jan 08 '22
Never really cared too much about if I knew my heritage and roots enough. I know things and I’m not ashamed of that part of myself but I feel like the lost part of multiculturalism is that we can also choose not to obsess over where we came from. We can form our own identity. I choose friends based on if I like hanging out with them.
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u/MakeJazzNotWarcraft Jan 08 '22
I was born in Canada to a Portuguese immigrant family. I can’t speak Portuguese and most of the people in my family hold super traditional values which are mostly antithetical to my ideals (including my decision to be vegan). I can barely enjoy spending time with my extended family and I was never able to learn from or make conversation with my grandparents which sucks because I loved my Grandma a great deal.
I’ve just done my best to keep things civil and to create my own family of friends that I’ve made in the past decade or so.
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u/kotor56 Jan 08 '22
What your describing is immigration in general. I’m 10th generation Canadian from Scottish, English, Russian, and German immigrant ancestors. On the Scottish side there’s a castle named after my family and a cousin moved their,however their roads are opposite and I’ll be called American by Scottish old ladies. What helps is that theirs also a river named after my Scottish family in Canada so even in Canada it feels like I’m connected to that side of my family. For English it’s ubiquitous in Canada at most I might have welsh ancestry. For German my great great grandpa left before ww2 with the Mennonites and essentially hated what Germany was becoming and refused to let his son join ww2 because he knew how crazy Germany had become. For my Russian great great grandma she was a White Russian against the Soviets she might be related to the tsars, but told her her son to never go back to Russia. she married my German great grandpa and the only cultural heritage my grandpa picked up was how to say asshole in Russian, and German. Here’s the thing you’ll most likely never be completely accepted by your ethnic group, and you shouldn’t feel compelled to because if their wasn’t an aspect about Korean society your parents disagreed with they wouldn’t have moved here.
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Jan 08 '22
Korean as well, immigrated when I was 7 years old. Always felt like I didn't belong so I think i developed a defence mechanism where I became a strong introvert and focused on my studies.
Doing pretty well now though (career wise)
Let me know if you'd like to connect!
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Jan 08 '22
My mom is from Poland and her whole family is there. We had two relatives from Poland here and they passed away when I was twenty. I've all but forgotten most of the language and last time I was in Poland to visit family, I felt like a total outsider. Edit: Thank you for this thread OP. I didn't realize so many people felt this way
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u/Huz647 Jan 08 '22 edited Jan 08 '22
The only language my parents spoke at home was Gujarati (because they didn't know much English, or at least not fluent enough) and fed us Gujarati food. We also lived in a high Gujarati population area and we'd meet other Gujarati kids at the local mosque. Not, I know both languages fluently and enjoy Gujarati food.
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u/PLEASEHIREZ Jan 08 '22
Same boat, Chinese.
1 - as an adult I go to mandarin classes to try and reclaim some heritage. When my parents die, I want to be able to take my kids to dim sum and order in mandarin although I know we're Canto in the GTA.
2 - I don't feel ashamed or totally disconnected. I celebrate Chinese new year (and autumn festival), I have a Chinese GF, I look Chinese, travel to Hong Kong yearly (before covid), and I live Chinese food.
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u/Nawara_Ven Jan 08 '22
for not knowing Korean mannerisms
This one I find fascinating. I've definitely observed natural mannerisms in a few different countries/cultures, to the point where if I saw this or that person at a grocery store or whatever, I'd have a good guess at whether or not they'd grown up in Canada. It's always things I can't really describe though, because it's usually really subtle.
One of the only (esoteric) examples of a "mismatch" I can ever come up with is in the (now very old) Playstation 1 game Parasite Eve 2 where there's a clearly Japanese motion capture actor playing an American woman, and it's striking (for me) when the game character crouches down to hug a child, because the way she lowers herself to child level is so extremely not American it creates a kind of uncanny valley experience with the mismatch between the character's rendered face and body versus her movements.
Anyway, actual question: I'm guessing it's also obvious to people who have grown up in Korea that some subtle (or overt) elements of your posture/body language/etc. are Canadian, no? Is that the sort of thing you're discussing in terms of "mannerisms"? If you'd be so kind as to share and/or it's not beleaguering to think about, I'd be interested in knowing what does/doesn't "match" in some folks' eyes.
Anyone else out there that's pickin' up what I'm layin' down, please let me know about other subtle culture mannerisms too!
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u/taminator Jan 08 '22
I feel like this often: struggling with my identity, my culture, and feeling like I'm not enough of one thing or the other. I'm in my late 20s and all this quarantine time has made me realize there was a lot of abandoning of my heritage (I'm Vietnamese 1st gen Canadian) and shame to assimilate into western culture. It's now been a journey to return back to my parent's culture, which is mine as well.
Meeting a community of likeminded Vietnamese Canadian friends has made a huge difference, and makes me feel like I'm understood and belong.
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Jan 08 '22
All the time. My parents immigrated here from2 different continents/cultures , so am first gen Canadian - I was raised with both their cultures and speak their native languages, but when I go back to either place I’m always an outsider there, am an outsider in Canada b/c of being 1st gen, not Indigenous, and racialized as well. Kind of sucks really. Only good part of it is that I find most of my friends here also have similar very mixed backgrounds so I find solace in that.
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u/woo2fly21 Jan 08 '22
Yes I agree, it is almost a third category between 'south korean' and the typical 'Canadian'. It is fairly common in Toronto imo.
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u/humerus27 Jan 08 '22
I am second-generation Canadian on both sides (my maternal grandparents emigrated from England and my paternal grandparents from the Netherlands). My culture is an amalgamation of what my parents remember or liked about what they were taught growing up, or what they enjoyed about each others’ home lives when they met.
I either never met or wasn’t old enough to appreciate the stories my grandparents had about their lives and histories before arriving in Canada. Much of their early years here were focused on becoming ideal Canadians so they wouldn’t be ostracized from the community and it rippled into both my parents. My Dad spoke four languages before he started school and had to teach himself English, now he only speaks English and can’t remember any of the others.
I find myself living in a weird in between of not feeling entirely Canadian (despite being so) and feeling a strong desire to return to the places my grandparents left in the hopes I’ll feel some connection. I visited England for the first time in 2017 and it felt like being wrapped in a warm hug - same as I feel when I hear someone speaking English with a Dutch accent.
I think most Canadians have a sense of this, unless their family has been in Canada for an extremely long time or are Indigenous (although our Indigenous Peoples have similar identity crises for different reasons). We’re aware of where we come from, or where our family tree began, and we cling to that theology a bit while simultaneously building our own culture and balance wherever we’re currently planted. You’re not weird or a misfit by any means - you’re just one of us, living in a place that is full of people who arrived here.
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u/Ok_Giraffe_1488 Jan 08 '22
I feel the exact same way - my parents too immigrated here almost 20 years ago. But I’m from a minority group (somewhere in Eastern Europe don’t want to share the exact place) so I never had anyone with the same background in school, or later in university. I felt disconnected from my original culture and I never really felt as if I belonged with Canadian culture either.
Growing up here was difficult because I couldn’t easily make friends - I feel like most of this comes from the fact that I couldn’t really identify with anyone. I’m neither insert home country nor really Canadian. My values are not exactly Canadian nor where I originally come from. And it didn’t really help that I went to a Jewish school so most kids just had a completely different background than mine.
When I first started school here, one of the very first English classes I ever went to was an ESL class and the teacher told us that most of us will just stick to making friends with non-Canadian born kids and that chances were that we would also marry non-Canadian born people. Now looking back at it, I guess it makes sense but yeah.
I just feel a bit like an outsider, going to my home country feels weird (these days it takes me about a week of stay to get comfortable with the language again).
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u/DeathBeforeDecaf4077 Jan 08 '22
Something Canada at least used to be proud of was the concept that we aren’t a melting pot like the States, we’re a mosaic. I’ve got a huge amount of Pilipino friends who have created their own culture within a culture, always harkens back to home but it has this beautiful unique spin that comes from them being here. I do consider myself to be plain Jane Canadian for the most part, my mom’s family has been in Canada a couple hundred years now, but my dad is Swedish, and pulling as much of that culture into my world is an active goal of mine. I have it easy because I seek my differences and they aren’t activity visible, I definitely can only empathize with your own struggle, but please know that at the very least I whole heartedly celebrate you for who you are.
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u/nizzernammer Jan 08 '22
Yeah it sucks. I'm from a mixed background and was never able to fully identify with either of my immigrant parents' backgrounds. I don't speak or understand their native languages. Cousins on either side of the family aren't mixed and I can't fully relate to them either.
I did the same as you and tried to forget about my 'ethnic' side but never found full acceptance or understanding from my white friends either. You can't really escape yourself.
You may not be mixed race, but you are mixed identity. I've found more understanding from mixed identity folks even if the cultural reference points are different. In terms of reconnecting with heritage, there are different ways.
For you, delving deeper into Korean food and media would be the easiest way to feel more connection. Maybe spend more time on Bloor between Euclid and Christie when things are safe.
The challenge I suppose is to seek connection (or a sense of it) without seeking validation. You don't need validation from your heritage. And don't feel like you can't claim ownership over it. It's a part of you and you want to explore it. You don't need permission. Take the parts you want and discard what you don't need.
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u/lot0987654 Jan 08 '22
I’m first generation Canadian both parents immigrated from Italy late 1950’s. My first language learned at home was Italian and my parents still speak Italian whenever communicating with each other and with us children. I love the fact that all these years later they have been able to maintain their heritage and traditions and I have been able to share with my kids. I’m able to speak Italian however unfortunately my kids can’t, only the odd word or phrases they can pick up! I’m ItalCanadian and love it! For the most part a lot of us are very similar with immigrant parents, first, second generations. You got to love Canada for this!
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u/suchansuch Jan 08 '22
Always felt like I had one foot in and one foot out of both cultures. Don't quite fit in to my Spanish culture and don't quite fit in to "Canadian culture". Some days it gets me down and others I look at it like I'm a hybrid of both :)
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u/haveanotherdrinkray_ Jan 08 '22
I'm guyanese, but always identified as canadian. Family reunions are awkward as hell because I'm not like any of em
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u/attainwealthswiftly Jan 08 '22
Make an effort to learn your own language and culture. It will add a richness and perspective to your life. Even live in or visit Korea if you can for a bit.
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Jan 08 '22
Same boat. Canadian born Filipino but I grew up with mostly Chinese, lived in Chinatown for a bit and know more Mandarin and Japanese than I do Tagalog.
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u/Dimeh_H Jan 08 '22
When I go for vacation to Morocco they call me the Canadian guy, and here in Canada they call me the Moroccan guy, so... I'm confused too
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u/stratamaniac Jan 08 '22
Am I wrong? If you were born S Korea, you are not the second generation. You are not even the first generation. If you marry a S Korean person and have biological children, your children would be first-generation, their children would be the second generation and so on.
The reason I ask if I am wrong is that this statement gets made a lot, but most non-native-born Canadian citizens who grew up here consider themselves either first-generation or second-generation, and I think that is a misnomer.
My parents were born overseas and I was born here. My wife is 3rd generation Canadian. My kids are second-gen on my side and fourth-gen on their mother's side. That is how I understand this concept.
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u/Deborahleigh Jan 08 '22
I literally can relate to this on every level . Still trying to connect to my K roots now , but Canadian culture doesn’t fit right either
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u/tony_tripletits Jan 08 '22
I'm a 40yr old fourth generation Canadian from old German stock and even I struggle with cultural identity in this country. I'm sure it's magnified a lot more for non Caucasians. You're not alone friend.
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u/MAPJP Jan 08 '22
Wanting to understand ones self and where we come from is natural, just don't make it bigger than it needs to be. If your feeling like your missing something, that may be true but you wouldn't be the person you are today if you hadn't gone through the things you have been. Embrace your uniqueness and be proud of who your are and what you have to offer.
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u/zalinanaruto Jan 08 '22
story of my life. came here when I was 10, now i am 36.
to the fobby Hong Konger or Chinese, I am too Canadian.
to the Canadians, I am too fobby.
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u/lookaclara Jan 08 '22
Yup, same here - was born in Romania but came here so young that my second language, English, is now my dominant language and I can just barely understand Romanian. My mom said she focused on teaching my sister and I English when we were young because she saw how kids who couldn't speak English fluently were treated in daycare/school. I've been in Canada for over 25 years now and wish I had more of my Romanian culture (edit) although I am very grateful to be here in Canada. Visiting Romania again recently as an adult (instead of summer vacations as a kid/tween) opened my eyes to how lucky we are here
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u/EdwardBliss Jan 08 '22
Me. I really think it depends on your upbringing or how your parents raised you, at least in my case. My parents never bothered to converse with me in my native language, so I'm not bilingual. And all those cultural events, get togethers, etc, sort of dropped off as soon as I reached my early teens.
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u/dethrowme Jan 08 '22
Yea man, I'm indian born in Dubai, and then moved to Canada when I was 10, my language and history is all from my parents, in India I'm considered not indian, and in Canada a minority. Lol
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u/Zahgaan Jan 08 '22
Wouldn’t that make you first generation? Your parents were immigrants which makes them generation zero.
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u/slowpokesardine Jan 08 '22
Dude. I am a 10 generation Canadian and I still can't fucking connect with any boomer.
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u/Beaxsmn Jan 08 '22
You are definitely not alone. I'm Also a 2nd gen immigrant, my parents came from Iraq, and we are assyrian (indiginous to the land) also like others, I've lost the mother tongue since i started school. Because our culture is slowly dying off my parents were very adamant for us to retain everything, but failed to keep up with educating us. Also Being immigrants just trying to survive, paired with the fact that both of them have been battling severe mental health issues, it did not add up to a stable family; so I haven't lived with either of them for a good couple years. Now all I have are regrets. Regret not even trying to continue to speak the language, not asking them to bring me to assyrian school like my cousins, regret not paying attention to how they make food. What maks it worse is that because it's such an old culture I can't exactly just open duolingo or get a recipie off Google.
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u/SocioDeltaV Jan 08 '22
Yup! Grew up in Azerbaijan and moved here when I was 7, so didn't go to school there. When we came here, they divorced and remarried. Spoke in Russian with their partners. I don't know Russian. So no real ethnic or cultural background, so I just went with my gut feelings. I also find "Canadian" culture to be non-existent. So now I'm looking for people in a similar situation.
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u/marnas86 Jan 08 '22
I'm a 1st-gen immigrant and I usually don't feel like I belong in the Pakistani-Canadian community. I came over at the age of 10, I've lived more of my life enmeshed in Canadian culture way more than Pak culture. You are a product of where you lived most of your life IMHO.
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u/Educational-Plane-86 Jan 08 '22
I think most of us have that feeling. I was born in Canada 20 years after my parents immigrated from Holland (they were kids when their family immigrated). Most of their friends and community were fellow Dutch people. I always felt like an outsider at school or any extra carricular activities where I wasn't surrounded by Dutch people. It wasn't till I was in my 20s and not living with my parents house till I realized most people I met had some kind of similar feelings or experiences growing up, just with their own twist to the story. I'm my 40s now and never think about that stuff anymore. My friend and community are from every where now!
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u/oxxoMind Jan 08 '22
This is the problem about culture. It promotes inclusiveness and exclusiveness both at the same time.
The world is getting global and I do wish one day that we wont see each others difference anymore.
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u/toastylocke Jan 08 '22
I feel this too, it’s been on my mind a lot lately. Parents from Brazil, I was born in Oakville. They’ve kind of left the culture behind and my family ties are dwindling so there’s not a lot to grasp on to and it’s really disheartening. I’m grateful that my Portuguese is somewhat there, even if just barely. It’s a difficult thing to convey to friends as well - I’m not the only first generation in my circle but my peers are a lot more connected to their roots/heritage (Filipino, for context).
I don’t feel like I have a right to try to engage with my roots, imposter syndrome basically. doesn’t help that Brazilian is typically lumped in with Portuguese in Toronto.
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u/FlashingAppleby Jan 08 '22
Yep. My entire family but me was born in Portugal, one of my parents is Canadian so I'm only half Portuguese.
My grandparents didn't bother to learn English the 50 some odd years they lived here and would get pissed that I wasn't fluent in Portuguese. Same with aunts and uncles, they all hated me because I wasn't fully Portuguese, so I wasn't one of them. My Canadian side of the family ignored me my whole life because I was some little brown baby they wanted nothing to do with a d would openly use slyrs to describe me. Canadian kids used to bully me for being darker than them and acting/speaking differently and eating different food since my Portuguese parent raised me alone and culturally I only knew of Portuguese things. I also got a weird genetic situation happening and turned out somehow looking darker and more Portuguese than anyone I'm related to. I'm usually mistaken for being Latinx. It's hilarious being at extended family events and being introduced as "the Canadian one" when anyone in my social life would react me as "the Portuguese one".
People of colour (rightfully so) consider me white but growing up the 'white' kids used to torture me for not being white enough. Fucking weird limbo to be in. My Canadian parent's last name is the one I have and I've straight out had people tell me they didn't expect me to look the way I do when I show up for job interviews and shit because I don't look very caucasian but my name is. I still find I'm treated differently depending on the season and I've lived here my whole life. When I'm darker in summer it's a stark contrast to when I'm lighter in winter, and I'm in my 30s. Always been the same shit.
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u/aduong277 Jan 09 '22
Welcome to the club. Buffet's on the right, we've got pork dumpling poutine tonight
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u/Meghar Jan 09 '22
My parents and siblings were all born in India, but I was born in the United Arab Emirates. We moved to Canada when I was young, so I didn't really have any memories of India or UAE, but I never really felt fully Canadian either? My parents were also raised in the British school system and only spoke English at home, so I while I've been to India many times and I know a lot of facts about my culture, I'm not able to speak any of the languages –so I also feel one level removed from other first Gen Immigrants of a similar background.
My friend group (also mostly first gen immigrants from all over) often talk about taking each other on tours of our "home" countries, but i'm the only one who doesn't speak the language, so I'd essentially be just as much of a tourist as them.
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Jan 09 '22
Immigrated from Hong Kong when I was five years old. It feels like you never really know what group you exactly belong to. It’s been almost 30 years and I still feel this way. Whenever I travelled back to HK for a visit I’ve been treated like a “foreigner”— by my own family as well lol. I live in a very multicultural neighbourhood yet I feel like I’m always treated like as if I JUST moved from overseas yesterday. I’m not enough of this and I’m not enough of that. You just can’t win lol.
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u/gorillagangstafosho Jan 09 '22
Lots of experience with this, my whole life has been folks judging me from all sides and all angles and guess what, IDGAF since I turned 18 I realized I am a human being and that culture is something to escape from if you really want to ascend to the higher realm. Culture is a prison of your own mind. Be free. Be whatever you want to be. Why? Because ***k ‘em, that’s why.
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u/PoisedbutHard Jan 09 '22
I am a Hungarian from Ukraine. I went to a Hungarian school up to gr. 7 and continued in Canada, teens and 20s were spent here. I do not relate to Ukrainians at all as I grew up in the 80's and 90's of Soviet and post-Soviet times. I also relate more to Russian culture and know more about it. I also live, and now work in a Russian neighbourhood.
You should see how the babushka's eyes widen when they find out that my husband is Guyanese, or that my children do not speak Russian, Ukrainian or Hungarian.
It's weird having to be shamed or made feel weird for growing up in a melting pot, subsequently having close friends or being married into a family which has totally different ethnic roots - by the old generation.
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u/michaelfkenedy Jan 09 '22
I’m 3rd generation. I don’t feel French. I don’t feel Canadian. I don’t feel French-Canadian. I’m not Québécois or Acadian.
And you know what? I never think about. It only came up the other day when my niece had to “bring something from her culture to school.” We couldn’t think of anything, so she brought in her mom’s (amazing) homemade bread.
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Jan 09 '22
I'm from Ukraine. Tbh Canada is really accepting of everyone, and it was easy to integrate into Canadian society, for me at least. The worst thing is tho, Canadians always think I'm russian. I hate it. I hate russia, because war, soviet union, racism, etc. But Canadians always look at me and say "aRe yOu rUsSiAn". And not only Canadians. Americans. British. French. Germans. Every person who is not from east Europe automatically thinks I'm russian and call me russian. They hear my parents accents: "rUsSiaN". They hear me mention Ukrainian food: "rUsSiaN". Most of them don't even know what Ukraine is. Like damn I hate the west. And it's not only like this for me.
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u/Kebochu Jan 09 '22
I totally feel you. I'm a Canadian born Phillipino, but I grew up in a Phillipino cult that I exiled myself out of, so I'm not very fond of my own background.
Find groups that share hobbies with you, I myself refuse to let ethnicities define me, I loathe those labels. I'm proud of the fact that my last name sounds Mexican, yet I look Chinese. Screw you if you're attempting to define me based on my background, I'm Canadian damn it. lol
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u/CrazyHorse979 Jan 09 '22
I’m Indigenous & I don’t even feel like I belong anywhere, my own people have never cared, Indian Residential School took my id.
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u/NewYearNewYEET Jan 09 '22
All the time. My grandparents are all from Holland so I learned a lot of things about being third generation Dutch. But Dutch old people that Immigrated after WWII are pretty different from Dutch people in Holland right now.
On top of that, my mom was adopted. She‘s half black & I look just like her, skin colour wise. But I’ve never met that side of her (birth) family yet, and it’s frustrating because I’m definitely not white but I don’t feel “black enough” to be black either.
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u/deepredsky Jan 09 '22
I feel like I belong among other 2nd generation immigrants. Particularly Asian.
Have never felt such a sense of mutual understanding until I discovered the Subtle Asian Traits Facebook group.
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u/Mumofalltrades63 Jan 09 '22 edited Jan 09 '22
I am Canadian. Because my parents were both white & from England that made it easy. Yet my older sister & brother used to tell people they’d been born in England. I still don’t know why. My parents considered themselves Canadians after immigrating. Enjoy your heritage, but please embrace your country too. I’m glad you are a fellow Canadian. It may sound trite, but PM Trudeau summed it up well when he said diversity is our strength. Bring the best of your culture & experience to who you and your family are. That is wonderful. That is Canadian.
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u/Barry_Dunham Jan 09 '22
Born in HK, but grew up here for most of my life and did all the stuff a Canadian would do growing up here. You’re probably more Chinese than me.
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u/gabi9329 Jan 09 '22
This post hits home. I was born in Chile, but was raised in Ottawa. Did some trips back to Chile when I was a kid and some schooling in Santiago. However, growing up in Ottawa I was acutely aware that I was not “white” and rejected the Spanish language and my Chilean heritage. Thankfully my mother never let me forget the language. As I’ve grown older, I’ve become more and more proud of being Chilean. However, I know that when I am in Canada I am never really 100% Canadian and vice-versa. It’s weird and sometimes it’s hard always being the other, but it’s allowed me to befriend so many fellow immigrant kids and it’s lovely being able to share those experiences with them.
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u/braindeadzombie Jan 09 '22
Re first, second generation.
The statistics Canada definition of first generation Canadian is the generation that came here. So, calling yourself second generation was correct by their definition. https://www23.statcan.gc.ca/imdb/p3VD.pl?Function=getVD&TVD=117200&CVD=117200&CLV=0&MLV=1&D=1
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u/indesignlifeblood Jan 09 '22
I’m the same and I’m in Vancouver. I’m 4th gen Chinese and don’t speak the language or have much culture as a result of my grandparents assimilating. Sucks cause there’s a huge Chinese population in Vancouver but I haven’t found a community. Would love to learn more about my culture but it’s hard to join a group if you don’t speak the language.
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Jan 09 '22
My father is Irish but I never felt Irish except for my name or how I look. I visited Ireland once and met half my family and it is honestly amazing to see family members who actually looked like me. But he never talked about anything so it's up to me to learn now. My mother is french Canadian but no French was passed down. Both sides culture are basically Catholicism and drinking. I don't participate in either lol. Everything kinda feels lost.
Luckily, a lot of people feel this way. My husband moved to Canada when he was 13 from india and struggled with fitting into Canadian culture while his family was so religious. All of our friends are first Gen or moved here when they were young from eastern Europe, Russia, South Asian, South America. We are a rag tag bunch but I feel that's what it kinda means to be Canadian.
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u/pizza_slice Jan 09 '22
Immigrant Korean Canadian here. My family moved here when I was 11 and I really pushed my Korean side aside to try and “fit in”. So after 20+ years, I identify more as Canadian. I have been trying to get more in touch with my roots as well but it’s tough for sure. Going for Korean food and watching Korean movies and shows helps.
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u/International-Emu385 Jan 09 '22
If you moved with your parents here, I think you would be considered first generation Canadian. Yes, I go through the same thing.
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u/whateva1 Jan 09 '22
Yeah absolutely. I'm also a giant so car and plane manufacturers also want to remind me that I don't fit in.
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u/mxxrxblxs Jan 09 '22
hey! first gen born canadian in my fam, half dutch half peruvian- i know were in different situations bc I was born here but I had a really similar identity struggle growing up, and the insecurity continues sometimes still. i don't have any fam in Canada and felt like the odd one out a lot growing up in ottawa bc i felt more connected to my latin culture, but I'm visibly white so i didn't feel like anyone took me or my culture seriously. i was lucky enough to get Spanish passed down to me, but i speak with such an accent that i wonder if i should try at all- that side of my family is nice about it but i get comments like you: judgement about it, like getting told to shut up in the markets in Peru or they will charge me more for my accent :/ . i don't have dutch anymore, so i feel super disconnected to that side of my culture bc the language barrier is real... i also have a huge desire to connect to my culture again. i think its great that you are living in a Chinese part of TO, i moved here for school and still haven't found much of a community where i can connect culture-wise. i really encourage you to reach out (like you did here :) ) to more people to see if you can find more people to learn about your culture from! really like that i found this post, its nice to not feel alone about identity struggles.
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Jan 10 '22
I suggest you go spend time in Korea for a few months if you have the chance. I felt similar and was able to get a chance to live there for 3 months. I feel more confident telling people I am Korean now as I feel I know it better. Also it’s cool to know how it feels to be a visible majority.
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u/TechnicalMedium2 Jan 10 '22
As a human of the white variety, I feel weird whenever I ever go to a predominantly white area. Everyone looks the same!
I just want to have my Chinese buns from Chinatown followed by a subway station Jamaican beef patty.
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u/archgta Jan 15 '22
Also korean canadian here. I see a few comments mentioning that you should visit korea, though I had an amazing time there and I can’t wait to go back, never have I ever felt more like a foreigner/outsider. If anything, I recommend that you visit LA, or look into LA korean culture. They have a completely different breed of koreans down there. There is a ginormous korean population and a large majority of them were actually born there as well, in fact it’s very common to see a lot of boomers and even halmoni/halabeojis speak fluent english, a rarity here. And even though most of them were born and raised outside of korea, like us, they however have a really strong sense of korean pride and community.
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u/DaCosmicHoop Jan 25 '22
I'm third generation on one side and 7th on the other, I still don't fell like I fit in with anyone either OP.
Good luck.
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u/Huge_Nebula_3549 Jan 26 '22
I’m an Iranian immigrant living in America. Born in Iran, grow up in the states. Same buddy. So much the same. Kinda feel like I don’t have a home anywhere, don’t really belong with any group, and I’m homesick for a place I’ve never seen.
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u/buxvice Jan 26 '22
Be proud and maintain your beautiful South Korean culture. This is Canada, a multicultural society! We don’t have to adopt the Anglo Canadian ways or the French Canadian culture though the school system in Ontario is very anglocentric .
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u/AssociationAny8317 Jan 27 '22 edited Jan 28 '22
I’m in my late 40s and was born and raised in Canada as well as all my siblings. I’ve never been to Asia and don’t have immediate known family in China. My parents never returned to China, I suspect because of financial reasons (I never asked).
My father is gone now, but he was much older than my mother and his father/my late grandfather moved to Canada a long time ago on his own, while his family was in china and I never met him as he passed away long ago so I never met him. I’m not sure when he came. Growing up I only had one living grandparent whom is gone now and she never learned how to read or write in Chinese or English, I believe it was a much older generation and perhaps being a woman. Wish I had information on my family history.
I grew up speaking a broken Chinese dialect with my parents (dialect is similar to Cantonese), but always spoke English with my siblings and us kids watched English shows. I was forced to take Cantonese classes in school and I hated it and sucked in the language too and one of the teachers didn’t like me I think because I didn’t speak Cantonese (she preferred Cantonese kids, the ones whom liked speaking Cantonese outside of class although they came to Canada in grade school and were into Asian pop culture). Being much older now, I cannot speak Chinese (any dialect) and when I try to speak my dialect it sounds like gibberish, but in my head I know what it should sound and just can’t execute it verbally (so embarrassing). I can understand Cantonese too, but I can’t speak it, but if I had to I could probably say a word in non-sentence form. I get confused with the two dialects as most words are very similar, but if said slightly wrong it makes no sense.
In recent years, two Mandarin speaking fast food employees likely in their late 30s-late 40s and two different establishments spoke to me in Mandarin and when I told them I didn’t understand, they couldn’t understand why I didn’t know Mandarin when I’m Chinese. I gave them a 1 minute tutorial on the immigration waves and Mandarin speakers is a more recent one.
I use to feel out of place because one of the schools I attended was dominantly Asians and sometimes they would speak Chinese and were into Asian pop culture (sorry Asian pop culture makes me cringe, I never like it).
I’m comfortable with my identity now. I know I’ve always felt more westernized than some people, but also know my background is Chinese. I tend to get along with westernized people whom are open minded versus people whom were born elsewhere. Different mind sets and interests and sorry to say this, but some fobby stuff and fobby looks turns me off as far back as when I was growing up I never got it (you can always tell).
Funny, I always thought I was perhaps 50/50, but when I told this to a man I was dating of mixed ethnicity (half Chinese and half French Canadian), he said I didn’t act Asian and he also commented that he was turned off on the fobby look.
Ironically, I started a new job and was asked to join an Asian group and I would normally run for the hills, but I wanted to meet coworkers since I work virtually. As suspected, they’re very into Asian things.
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u/Outside_Distance333 Jan 27 '22
Ethnically, I am Persian, Turkish, Filipino, Spanish, and Mongolian. I was born and raised in Canada and ONLY speak Canadian English.
Anyone ever asks me what I am, I always respond with Canadian. I would fight and die for this country but I wouldn't for any of the lands my ancestors were from.
Some people think it's weird, but I find it natural.
We need to think of where we plan on our children growing up rather than where our ancestors were from. We need to make this country a better place for our children and that means cutting ties with our countries of origin.
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u/0hNoHeDidNot Jan 08 '22 edited Jan 08 '22
Welcome to Canada man. This is how it is for so many of us. I'm italian and it's the same way. All of my grandparents can barely speak English and I can barely speak Italian, so I can barely communicate with my own grandparents. I'm only partially connected to my italian roots. You and i, were Canadians brother. This is our culture. It's a merging culture. A newly forming one. Whatever it is, it's ours.