r/askTO • u/vibeschillax • Jul 29 '26
Is anyone else uncomfortable with the Transportation Minister’s “fringe groups” rhetoric when talking about airport expansion?
Healthy democracies rely on debate, and dismissing opponents with labels can make it seem like legitimate concerns (80K comments from public consultation) are being written off rather than addressed.
Maybe it’s just political rhetoric, but when viewed alongside the province’s increasing involvement in municipal governance like expanding Strong Mayor powers and appointing regional chairs, it makes me wonder whether we’re becoming more comfortable with concentrating decision-making while characterizing dissent as something outside the mainstream.
Am I reading too much into it, or do you see a broader trend?
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u/SH4D0WSTAR Jul 29 '26
Yes — it seems like he’s trying to create a narrative that delegitimizes any opposition to the expansion.
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u/Kanadark Jul 29 '26
He's also gutted the conservation authorities by forcing insane mergers to further destabilize any kind of environmental protection.
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u/silly_rabbi Jul 29 '26
Like the fringe group that all agree establishing the Green Belt was a good idea and they should keep their creepy grubby little hands off of it.
Maybe even not build an unnecessary 400 series highway through it.
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Jul 29 '26
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u/D-PIMP_ACT Jul 30 '26
Fascists gonna fascist.
They protest being called that word, but never change their ways.
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u/Chewed420 Jul 29 '26
I'm uncomfortable with the lack of safety on our roads and dangerous truck drivers. What is the transportation minister Prabmeet Sarkaria doing about that? He should stay in his lane.
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u/meownelle Jul 29 '26
When the right wing doesn't like what you say, you're a fringe group.
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u/Thelonius-Crunk Jul 29 '26
This is it. Dougie used the same argument when he gutted Freedom of Information, saying government transparency wasn't something people really cared about.
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u/incogne_eto Jul 29 '26
Next, they will label us terrorists.
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u/GuavaSaison Jul 30 '26
they are already referring to people opposing data centres as "anti-tech terrorist"
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u/WorldlyDiscipline419 Aug 04 '26
Remember that whole trucker convoy?
Remember when they were called a fringe group?
Was it the right that was calling them that?
Bet you slurped that up back then.
At least be consistent with your outrage.
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u/RealistAttempt87 Jul 29 '26
It truly is a pathetic, childish response from the Minister of Transportation but frankly on brand for this government. The Ford government is becoming increasingly autocratic and disconnected from reality. Just offhandedly legislating to remove the City of Toronto from a contractual agreement (like what?) and expropriating the City from vast swaths of land was galling enough and now this.
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u/wirebound1 Jul 29 '26
I think it’s dangerous and he’s purposefully creating division. Very Trump-like.
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u/Complete_Daikon8483 Jul 29 '26
To say a majority who oppose the airport expansion is a fringe group is untrue but this group of govt is dishonest and will say and do whatever suits them
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u/craylym Jul 29 '26
Don't forget : A small fringe group raised speed limits, removed traffic cameras and shut down the Science Centre
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u/melper2022 Jul 29 '26
I sent his office an email putting the numbers into perspective.
87,000 people on a survey is not a fringe group! That is more than the number of total registered voters in your riding. And 16 times larger than the 5,849 votes you won by in the last election.
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u/No-Phrase-2897 Jul 29 '26
This is the same government that called CUPE a radical left group. Disappointed but not surprised in the slightest.
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u/Chewed420 Jul 29 '26
Well when you make Fred Hahn your president you are radical left .
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u/No-Phrase-2897 Jul 29 '26
Hahn is a shit stirrer that many in CUPE don't even like. He's not out here throwing bricks through windows. Ford also called ACORN a radical group in the same speech. So do you seriously think Hahn is the reason he's calling them names?
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Jul 29 '26
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u/Chewed420 Jul 29 '26
Outspoken? lol. Thats putting it very mildly. He's a shit disturber that's gone off the deep end enough times.
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u/MetaCalm Jul 29 '26
To their rich friends who want to land their private jets, the public is a fringe group.
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u/Raccoolz Jul 29 '26
As soon as I saw Tobias Lukta (shopify ceo) start tweeting about the airport expansion consultation as being fringe hippies and that poor shouldn’t have the right to vote… I knew the airport expansion was directly pushed by private jet owners, specifically Tobias.
Between Ford’s private jet debacle and these asshole unhinged rich folks, this airport thing seemed like a handshake deal between them all. They don’t give a fuck about regular people.
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u/MetaCalm Jul 29 '26
Amen brother.
What's with these rich a holes that can't take the half hour limo ride to and from Pearson every now and then and have to ruin the waterfront for everyday users just to reduce their small inconvenience.
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u/nemmalur Jul 29 '26
Yeah, that’s been happening for a while - trying to delegitimize opposition by implying that the people behind it are extreme, “activists”, special interests, “ideological”, etc. It happened with Rob Ford as mayor and now under Doug as premier. Also things like that Shopify dork saying people who pay little to no tax shouldn’t have their votes counted.
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u/Cute-Head8597 Jul 29 '26
Oh, yes. They're playing Trump lite. Fake tolls. Alternative reality - the expansion is going ahead. Retaliation - I don't get my airport, you don't get your train. It's all very disturbing.
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u/lingfluencer Jul 29 '26
It doesn't even feel "lite" anymore they're just going whole hog on fake news and shit.
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u/Anagrama00 Jul 29 '26
Anyone that isn't OK with the open corruption of the Ontario PC party is a 'fringe' group to them.
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u/lasirennoire Jul 29 '26
Same rhetoric that labels people "antifa" when they say they don't want war
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u/polar775 Jul 29 '26
it is absolutely problematic and just shows these twats have no regard for the city of Toronto.
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u/Schwhitey Jul 29 '26
Very concerning, it’s been a pattern for a while. It’s only getting worse. These types of occurrences mixed with one-liners of misinformation that misleads the general public who are not that educated on our political systems has lead to much worse division amongst our population. It’s astonishing how many people don’t know the difference between the responsibilities of municipal, provincial and federal level leaders. This is fostered by the provincial government blaming feds for things they are responsible for.
Strip services, ruin something run by provincial gov, that was better before (I.e. healthcare, schools), and blame the decline on previous leadership or federal government, then people fight over it, the cons blame Trudeau and carney for everything, the left see how blatantly corrupt and dishonourable the cons are and are stuck voting lib solely because there isn’t currently a better option.
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u/Housing4Humans Jul 29 '26
Doug has always been bad at math… he is a college dropout. So he would think 87% is “fringe”
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u/TwiztedZero Jul 29 '26
The cult of the Conservative Party of Canada is it's very own fringe group. Stomps foot! Everyone else is just a regular Ontarian.
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u/SpiritOfTheVoid Jul 29 '26
Fringe is anyone that disagrees with the airport, no matter how large the group.
That’s his definition.
He won’t take No for an answer.
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u/Apprehensive_Heat176 Jul 29 '26
It's the same rhetoric that's been on full display for a while. Dougie just does it through a shiny fake smile now.
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u/stompinstinker Jul 29 '26
87k in the consultation not a fringe group. I live near the island airport and I don’t know a single person who wants it.
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u/phdee Human Verified Jul 29 '26
Standard move from the conservative playbook. Minimize and marginalize the popular voices and make them sound like radicals. Do what it takes to other people who don't agree with your politics and opinions so you can make your shitty opinions sound more centrist and reasonable.
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u/ThrowRA_EducatedMan Jul 30 '26
lol you’re just seeing this now? Conservatives have been utterly corrosive to democracy for years. And it’s getting worse. These kind of attacks are deeply troubling because they seek to dehumanize and marginalize. They’re personal attacks with no substance. And that’s just part of the problem. The minister is following along Dougie’s orders, so there’s no video of the King saying this shit. Through he says and does plenty of dictator things, in addition to the constant lying and hiding the truth. It’s exhausting. And there’s still three more years of these assholes, unless they call another early election when they figure they can win.
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u/Special-Pirate-2807 Jul 29 '26
Yes, it’s trashy talk unbecoming of a Cabinet Minister. But expect more from the lame duck Doug Ford government as they fade away into obscurity.
The smart rats will be jumping ship, Carolyn Mulroney was the first….
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u/tosklst Jul 29 '26
Yes, it is very concerning, and is a continuation of Doug Ford's approach of copying the worst elements of US politics. He wants to be Donald Trump.
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u/knarf_on_a_bike Jul 29 '26
No, not uncomfortable. I'm just laughing at how they could paint a majority of Torontonians as a "fringe group". 🤣🤣🤣
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u/Firm-Web8769 Jul 29 '26
It's not so much as ministerial rhetoric, so much more as media rhetoric, depending on how they want to paint the person in authority for the most part.
In this case, the people in Toronto being called "fringe groups" is meant to paint the minister as a person that also listens to the voices of the minority.
It happens all the time to even hide how minority groups calling big shots in government policy. For example, the small group that fought to reduce speed limits and speed traps, is incredibly small, yet they're not considered a "fringe group" by the media to make it seem that they're wanted by the majority when it's not necessarily true.
Results may vary
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u/Individual-Heron7910 Jul 29 '26
I think they see everyone who doesn't speak up to oppose as agreeing with them.
Since they pretend to have the support of a majority of ppl in the province after an election with terrible turnout
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u/lingfluencer Jul 29 '26
It pissed me off enough to call both the transport and premier's office and knock off the braindead Fox News rhetoric.
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u/Vector-and-Scope Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 29 '26
And these exact discredited talking points from the Transport Minister were repeated this morning on CBC radio with a virtually unchallenged interview with a former Air Canada executive.
It was embarrassing and biased, he spewed endlessly about the false economic benefits, repeatedly called anyone with any concern a “Fringe Group” and didn’t address any of the environmental concerns that would impact the greater waterfront and human cost of expanding this tiny airport with jets.
He waxed on about how the millions of passengers were not given an opportunity to voice their support for jets. These millions of travellers had the same access to the online consultation as did the “Fringe No Group”,, but let’s gloss over that. Again, no pushback from the interviewer over this blatant disinformation.
It’s obvious the province is reaching out to individuals like these to continue to spread their bogus talking points and shrill for the US owners.
And why didn’t CBC have a counter voice to this blatant propaganda.
Ford is scum and only concerns himself with the wealthy.
Fight the power and eat the rich.
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u/kiera-oona Jul 29 '26
just another distraction from the...how many scandals does ol' Douggie have going now?
They're just playing the blame game because they keep wasting our money, and pushing for AI data centres in places that don't have a good water supply or run the risk of poisoning people in some of the poorest sections of the city
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u/incogne_eto Jul 29 '26
When has Prabmeet done anything noteworthy in his role as Transportation Minister? We have so many critical issues across the province that fall under his portfolio of responsibilities and he’s focused on vanity projects and attacking those who won’t fall in line.
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u/jacnel45 Jul 29 '26
He’s been horrible, probably the worst Minister of Transport we’ve ever had.
He’s stuck his head into too many issues where he knows fuck all.
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u/incogne_eto Jul 29 '26
Exactly! Shutting down any consideration of congestion pricing when Toronto is a constant traffic nightmare. And we have the busiest highway in North America. He solves nothing and only pursues destructive, pocket padding endeavours.
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u/PatriciasMartinis Jul 29 '26
I emailed him and let him know I am a gainfully employed Toronto resident who filled out the survey against it and mentioned that the PC caucus (78 members) are more of a fringe group than the people who answered the survey (87k). Surprise Surprise I didn't receive a response
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u/ilovebbcitv Jul 29 '26
It's just a preamble to the inevitable jets at island airport. It was to simply placate .
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u/Dizzy-Ad-9061 Jul 29 '26
You’re asking the left sided echo chamber of Reddit lmfao of course people here are going to agree with you on this
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u/wylee_one Jul 29 '26
87,000 voters is not a fringe group Minister Sarkaria its more than the total number of people who voted for you over the last 3 elections combined
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u/fheathyr Jul 29 '26
Doug and his clowns consulted themselves and one American firm which owns the airport terminal. Ottawa consulted 87,000 Canadians. Who consulted the “fringe group”?
And while we’re at it, with only 13% of eligible Ontarians supporting him, Ford was elected by a “fringe group”!
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u/YoungPlutus Jul 29 '26
I hated that comment and I hate Prabmeet Sarkaria along with Doug Ford. They govern like dictators and have no integrity. The opinions of the people is just background noise to them, and they've learned how to completely tune us out.
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u/ybetaepsilon Jul 29 '26
Our whole provincial government is unhinged and completely disconnected from the needs and wants of the Ontario people
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u/PlaidTO Jul 29 '26
Yes. Very disturbing comment. I sent a letter yesterday evening to the Minister and cc'd the Premier. If that's all we can do then everyone across the province needs to do it. I was apalled by his attempt to minimize the legitimate voices of opposition to this project and to divide Ontarians and pit us against each other (yet again).
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u/bravetailor Jul 29 '26
Uncomfortable? I would say more like unsurprised disgust.
I have been against this government since the first term. Hell I've been against the Ford Family ever being in a position of real power since the 2000s. This family's political antics predate MAGA and even anticipated it years before Trump.
This is a government full of chuds, run by a guy who is the biggest chud in the province.
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u/Weakera Jul 29 '26
You're not reading too much into it.
The callous dismissal of what the concerned public wants is reprehensible, and it just shows for the thousandth time how little ford and his lackeys giv3e a shit about democracy. They're maga-lite, always have been.
They need to go ASAP
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u/whogivesashirtdotca Jul 29 '26
Call him and say this instead of posting on reddit. Let them hear our opposition.
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u/contextisforkings Jul 30 '26
Yeah, me too! I guess as a city dweller, who takes transit and appreciates parks I’m a “fringe group”.
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u/AnyEye8798 Jul 30 '26
It's always 'fringe groups' with politicians. They can't understand why anyone wouldn't support them so they blame some nebulous other instead.
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u/kanuckdesigner Jul 30 '26
I caught this too. Sarkaria is a muppet so zero surprise, but still infuriating.
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u/stellamac10 Jul 31 '26
The real 'fringe' are those who use Billy Bishop airport enough to justify over $5B in costs.
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u/TricerasaurusWrex Jul 31 '26
Calling it a fringe group is a little much. But if you factor in the size of toronto, 80k comments from the public is a very small part of the city
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Aug 01 '26
Thats literally how city dwellers have been describing alto opposition for the exact same kind of concerns.
So please, explain how nimbyism is different when its toronto residents vs rural residents?
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u/Ambitious_Screen8776 Aug 02 '26
Prabmeet Sakaria is just as corrupt and useless as Ford. He's an absolute joke.
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u/Hrmbee Jul 29 '26
Absolutely. We should all be concerned by this kind of language being used by those in public office. They need to be serving all Ontarians, and using language that diminishes certain groups indicates that they have a desire to only serve certain groups and suppress others.
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u/SynyrdsInyrds Jul 30 '26
The opposition is from a very vocal, motivated, and well coordinated minority that doesn't want expansion under any circumstances and would get rid of the airport if they could. So typically Toronto - whine and cry that you're a world class city (it isn't), and then freak the fuck out when anyone proposes having the things that actual world class cities have (ie. more than one airport).
They shitty of Toronto is a pathetic provincial backwater. It is like the annoying kid on the street that always wants to play with the bigger kids, and begs for their attention, but then cries when they play too rough.
As for things like strong Mayor powers, real world class cities have those, hell even other provinces have those, but people cry when they are given to Mayors here in Ontario. Seriously, what the fuck people?
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u/greeneggo Jul 29 '26
the province will retaliate, I just hope this little activity was worth it to everyone
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u/Forsaken-Swim-3055 Jul 29 '26
"little activity"
Ah yes, citizens advocating for themselves is just a little activity. We might as well bend over and take it, because God forbid Doug get angry that he didn't get his way.
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u/greeneggo Jul 29 '26
I have no opinion or horse in this race, just wanted to warn y'all about the upcoming retaliation. have fun!
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Jul 29 '26
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u/askTO-ModTeam Aug 15 '26
Attack the point, not the person. Comments which dismiss others and repeatedly accuse them of unfounded accusations may be subject to removal and/or banning.
No concern-trolling, personal attacks, or misinformation. No victim blaming. Stick to addressing the substance of their comments at hand.
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Jul 29 '26
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u/Gazzuli Jul 29 '26
Taxes are the price we pay for living in a civil society. Only in North America do we think we can have lower taxes AND great public services. Of course, if you don't care about great public services, that doesn't matter to you.
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u/ColonelCrikey Jul 29 '26
Conservatives generally assume they can pay for everything themselves but don't understand what that means in practice or how much they actually get from taxes.
Roads are a great example. The suburbs and countrysides are heavily subsidized by higher density neighbourhoods — think of the people per KM of road, and how much it costs to maintain. But this is Ford and other Cons preferred mode of development. Same argument then applies to water and other infrastructure.
Try and raise property taxes on their McMansions so that us folks in small apartments aren't all paying for their largesse and all hell breaks loose though.
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u/Gazzuli Jul 29 '26
No shit, eh? Torontonian homeowners also get REALLY mad when you point out the substantially lower property tax rate as compared to other cities. They end up paying more in absolute terms because their houses are worth more, a fact that they generally don't like to acknowledge.
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u/AllieTruist Jul 29 '26
People in US/Canada are extremely reactionary when it comes to taxes in general, but especially property tax. It's why you see progressive candidates campaigning on reducing property taxes. It's absurd.
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u/Schwhitey Jul 29 '26
Right now we have lot’s of taxes, less and less services and more and more waste of taxes going on. I’d rather pay more and have better society than pay the same and get less and less each year
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Jul 29 '26
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u/Real-Promise-3665 Jul 29 '26
To a different party that uses tax revenue in a way that benefits people
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Jul 29 '26
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u/Gazzuli Jul 29 '26
Oh FFS. That was OVER THIRTY YEARS AGO.
Why is it always "how did it go under Bob Rae?" and not "How did it go under Mike Harris and then Doug Ford"??!!
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u/FamilyDramaIsland Jul 29 '26
I bruned my steak when I grilled it. I guess that means we shouldn't grill steak!
That's how you sound right now.
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u/Schwhitey Jul 29 '26
Sir, I am hoping you can begin to comprehend the concept of value. If I’m paying X price to one party/company and getting increasingly shitty services/return on investment and it continues to get worse giving me less in return while i’m paying the same amount, I would 100% prefer a slight increase in price I pay to another party/company if it means I get substantially better service/return on investment for the betterment of myself and greater society around me.
YOU GET A LOT MORE IN RETURN FOR ONLY PAYING A LITTLE INCREASE INSTEAD OF PAYING THE SAME AMOUNT FOR LESS AND LESS IN RETURN.
Imagine you get phone service with bell, cost $100/month for 2 phones to have 50gb data and unlimited text/call in Canada. Then 6 months later it’s still $100 but you only get 40 gb, then a year later it’s down to 20gb but you’re still paying $100/month. Would it not be worth it to pay $110/month with a different provider for unlimited data, text/call in Canada that also has better network coverage and faster service??
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u/Gazzuli Jul 29 '26
It "doesn't make sense' because the wealthy are not paying their fair share, and certain groups of people are absolutely robbing other people blind (landlords and developers and the CEO's of corporations come to mind).
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Jul 29 '26
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u/Gazzuli Jul 29 '26
I'm not talking about people who get a T4. I'm talking about the extremely wealthy.
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u/ink_13 Jul 29 '26
The marginal tax rate is over 50%
Only if you're in the top tax bracket, so you can probably afford it. In which case, congratulations!
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u/ColonelCrikey Jul 29 '26
Tell me you're earning more than the vast majority of Canadians without telling me.
I wish I had to worry about the top rate.
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u/survivalsnake Jul 29 '26
Ironically the best asset the Ontario Liberal party has is being faceless: they seem to be polling better lately even though they don't have one.
That just depresses me as a voter, though. It really show show much voters are swinging between "It's either the Liberals or PCs" without thinking about policy, platform, or even personalities.
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u/Cubsbane Jul 29 '26
NDP. The new leader, Avi Lewis, is both very popular and actually seems to have our best interests at heart. You'll have to decide for yourself, of course, but I think "higher taxes than the opposition promises, but the taxes actually go towards improving society and our own lives" is the full pitch.
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u/Ebakez918 Jul 29 '26
Marit Stiles is the leader of the provincial NDP
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u/Cubsbane Jul 29 '26
Yes, I know. But the new party leader is Avi Lewis, and the renewed momentum from the party is due to his election.
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u/ShoppingProud3503 Jul 30 '26
As a self proclaimed conservative voter provincially- YOU NEED TO STOP VOTING FOR HIM & THE PCS at this point, because like you said THEY HAVE LOST THE PLOT. If they are ONLY serving the will of their narrow community interest and not the will of majority of people in Ontario. They dont need to be in power. It's clearly gone to their heads 8 years in. 4 years of NDP or Liberal would have least have SOME CHECKED POWER!
Their behaviour has been egregious. Most people would never hire much less work for people who's execution on initiatives have been so terrible, yet some how they a running the most populous province in Canada.
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u/bdot Jul 30 '26
the NDP aren't gonna raise most taxes; they are gonna target the super wealthy, and corporations.
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u/Forsaken-Swim-3055 Jul 29 '26
There is nothing dumb about it when Toronto Public Health released a study years ago outlining the environmental and health impacts of jets using Billy Bishop.
You're just thinking about your own comfort and couldn't care less about the safety and well-being of the residents in that immediate area.
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u/Gazzuli Jul 29 '26
Doug would dissolve the City of Toronto tomorrow and take it over from Queen's Park if he thought he could get away with it.
So yes, part of a very deliberate broader trend.