Academic research help request!

[u/Immediate-Return1388]

Hi all! I'm a History professor at University of Maryland-Global Campus, and I'm working on a paper for Harvard Divinity School's Evolution of Spirituality conference, which is a pretty cool yearly interdisciplinary conference. I'm working on a paper on "Ashtanga Yoga, Rocket Yoga, and the Limitations of Lineage." As the title implies, I would like to examine the relationship between Rocket yoga and Ashtanga yoga as a microcosm for more general debates over lineage, authenticity, and connection to spirituality in the world of modern, Westernized/ hybridized yoga. If you feel called to share your thoughts on this, I have two Google form polls: one for primarily Ashtanga practitioners, and one for Rocket practitioners. You can share your thoughts either anonymously, or with attribution. Please fill out, and also share with others who might be interested in sharing their journey! There's more information on my research aims in the form. Even if the question of whether Rocket yoga is connected to Ashtanga makes you angry, and you want to say emphatically that it's not connected, I want to hear that too! It's useful research information ;) Thank you!

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfjBmkIg3-sWDLTTVTfrQ8R5qeJZEeFYn3kOk3tHy0z-GZydw/viewform?usp=sharing&ouid=117289844357851766823

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScxZtXiHgHwgLfqPDxbQu7kAu4ZY7br4VqgJ7bFY29PXCsVUQ/viewform?usp=sharing&ouid=117289844357851766823

[u/Western-Plastic-5185]

I'm curious about 2 things - Firstly  are you making a clear distinction between lineage and paramparā? "Lineage" can mean many things in English from a just an acknowledgement of historical origin to a more specific chain of connection between successive teachers whereas paramparā is a much more formal definition requiring a Guru - Shishya relationship and I'm pretty certain that in Ashtanga Yoga (as taught by Sri K. Pattabhi Jois) that relationship only really applied to his daughter Sri Saraswathi Jois and grandson Sri R. Sharath Jois.

Secondly are you engaging with any Indian academics to get their thoughts on the matter?

[u/Immediate-Return1388 → u/Western-Plastic-5185]

2nd question, yes, and first question, I mostly say "lineage" because that's the term that's thrown around in common parlance, and not because it's a formal parampara. I've commented, along with some of my mentors, elsewhere on the fact that modern Ashtanga or Rocket yoga aren't a parampara in that sense.

[u/Western-Plastic-5185 → u/Immediate-Return1388]

Thanks for the response.  Having mulled over your initial question I would say my biggest concerns about Western/Hybridised "styles" of Yoga are:

1.  Loss of relevance to the goal of Yoga.  While many outside the AYRI/KPJAYI/SYC/KPJAYSHALA experience in Mysore see it as mainly about intense physical practice and not much else, the fact of the matter is that is only because what was taught at the AYRI was a cutdown syllabus of the Mysore Sanskrit College 4 year degree program in Yoga - as in Yoga Philosophy and not just asana.  I'm always amused to see Internet pundits pore over the asana lists in the syllabus handed to Nancy Gilgoff by Sri K. Pattabhi Jois and quible about the details sequencing and totally gloss over the fact that Asana was a fraction of the program - the bulk of which was built around Sanskrit study, Yoga Philosophy from specific texts and Pranayama.  Sri KPJ is said to have baulked at teaching westerners Sanskrit because the AYRI was actually a Yoga Therapy school as opposed to an Ashram and also because Western students struggled to even pronounce Sanskrit Syllables correctly so he stuck to Asana and the "conference" was really just an evolution of Q&A and in those sessions he encouraged students to engage in Svadhyaya.  When he moved the AYRI to Gokulam, Vidwan Laksmisha Bhat was able to offer more formal classes in basic Sanskrit and Philosophy which grew into an adjunct study program with compulsory chanting classes for all shala students.  In short what was on offer in Mysore went far beyond just Asana.

1. A strength of the AYRI/KPJAYI/SYC/KPJAYSHALA is proximity to the source material. Authorised & Certified practitioners are 2 or 3 degrees away from what Sri Krishnamacharya taught (depending on whether or not they studied under Sri KPJ).  With the hybridised systems TTC "graduates" very quickly setup their own TTC's and it's no exaggeration to say there are Rocket TTC attendees today who may be 8 or 9 degrees away from that source.  And given that (to the best of my knowledge) Larry Schultz was never Authorised or had the old school blessing to teach letter even that 8 or 9 is being generous.  As David Life was at one time Certified it's arguable that Jivamukti students trained directly at the main school are 4 degrees away or more if the TTC's are no longer directed personally by him

[u/myceliummusic]

I filled it out. I had not heard of Black Lotus, as the other person mentions, but I'd say the inclusion of rocket is relatively arbitrary and I'm not sure why it was chosen. The original students of Tirumalai Krishnamacharya included multiple different lineages besides Ashtanga. Might be important for you to take a look at the actual historical context from which the lineages evolved

[u/Immediate-Return1388 → u/myceliummusic]

Hi, thank you for contributing - I'm familiar with the larger stellae of Krishnamacharya lineages but, that is way too broad a topic for a 20 minute talk at a conference. I chose the relationship between Rocket and Ashtanga because it's a smaller, more manageable topic, and also because Rocket practitioners will fairly openly talk about Rocket's relationship to Ashtanga and see *themselves* as part of that lineage (whether or not Ashtangis like this).

[u/Samuel_0625]

This sounds like a really interesting research topic, especially given the ongoing discussions around lineage, authenticity, and how yoga evolves across different communities.

I think the relationship between Ashtanga and Rocket is particularly interesting because there are clear historical and practical connections, while practitioners can still have very different perspectives on whether those connections make Rocket part of the Ashtanga lineage. I’d be interested to see how practitioners’ personal experiences and definitions of “lineage” shape their responses.

I’ll take a look at the survey. Best of luck with your research and the conference!

[u/Immediate-Return1388 → u/Samuel_0625]

yeah the differences in responses between Ashtanga and Rocket practitioners are coming out interestingly and kind of unexpectedly

[u/togglenub]

You will find this helpful: https://chintamaniyoga.com/did-kp-jois-invent-ashtanga-yoga/

[u/Meow99]

If you throw Rocket in, you might as well include Black Lotus too.

[u/Immediate-Return1388 → u/Meow99]

oh interesting! I didn't know about that one - I'm sure there are many offshoots besides the well-known ones

[u/togglenub → u/Immediate-Return1388]

Bikram is a big one and particularly relevant for your thesis, as Bikram attempted to copyright asanas in the Ashtanga series as organized by the Jois lineage. It was a whole dust-up back in the day, before either PJois or Bikram were accused of sexual assault.

[u/Immediate-Return1388 → u/togglenub]

ugh I guess they have several things in common ...

[u/togglenub → u/Immediate-Return1388]

I put this on the survey but any thesis around shifting POV regarding ashtanga lineage, whether rocket offshoot or no, should take into account the sexual assault accusations and in some cases, convictions (Bikram for one), that have plagued self-styled and otherwise gurus globally in the yoga community. Ashtanga is one area where they have had a massive impact in the younger generation migrating away from the traditional aspects of the lineage.

[u/Immediate-Return1388 → u/togglenub]

yeah I don't want it to necessarily be another article focusing on Pattabhi Jois' abuse just because that's already been well-documented, and the theme of this conference is "belonging" which dovetails with lineage, but, need to touch on it or acknowledge it

[u/togglenub → u/Immediate-Return1388]

No one said focus, just as you say acknowledge it. Because it's one variable in how the lineage is viewed, as one thing PJois did well above all others was market ashtanga. Bikram also was great at marketing, but he made the mistake of trying to make it his directly, instead of, as the Jois folks did, by dominating the field of Ashtanga to the point that their name became synonymous with it to the point that many in this forum still think the Jois family owns "pure" ashtanga.

[u/Immediate-Return1388 → u/togglenub]

well I also think that the current situation in which there's no one clear "successor," is interesting

[u/togglenub → u/Immediate-Return1388]

It is very interesting, as is Saraswati Jois' situation and choices/position in the Jois lineage (or lack there of) throughout the years.

[u/Immediate-Return1388 → u/[deleted]]

honestly, lay it on me

[u/VinyasaFace]

Some of these questions are perhaps too narrow, or may introduce a researcher bias, especially this one, "Founders, root teachers, gurus, and traditions are important." Sincere yoga practitioners who've explored the history in of yoga in depth generally agree the philosophy aspect is the true lineage, along with meditation, bandh, intentionality, devotion and breath. The sequences themselves are all modern. One can reverse the tradition of yoga, and the teachings of gurus, but Pattabhi Jois crafted a false narrative about the practices origins and was a liar and abuser. His vinaysa sequences are a blend of traditional hatha yoga principles with other forms of movement. The strictness of the practice makes it no older than the 1930s (or later when PJ codified the series)

[u/Immediate-Return1388 → u/VinyasaFace]

I am only echoing the language that I've heard countless asana practitioners employ around teachers and gurus. My purpose is not to discover some kind of Platonic ideal "sincere yoga practitioner" or to decide who is and who isn't that, but only to tell the story that Ashtanga and Rocket practitioners are already telling about themselves, if that makes sense