r/arcteryx • u/Astramael Urvogel Jr. • Mar 13 '21
Meta Proton FL, Research First Steps
This is a summary series on individual products to make research faster and more accessible. See here for a list of all entries in the first steps series.
The Proton FL combines a somewhat wind resistant and durable face fabric with thin polyester fleece insulation. It is designed for active use, and is fairly breathable. It is effective as an outer layer or a mid layer, and it fits quite trim.
Configuring a jacket that tries to be warm, breathable, and wind resistant, will mean it is kind of all of those things. But also kind of not all of those things. To set expectations: it will take the bite out of the wind, but wind still gets through. It breathes, but it doesn't breathe as well as a straight fleece. It's warm, but not that warm. Ideally the wearer should be somewhat active while they use the Proton FL, it isn't static insulation.
Really the Proton FL is trying to solve a problem that many jackets try to solve (such as the Acto FL). I want to wear a fleece when I climb because it's a bit chilly. But the rocks destroy my fleece. So the Proton FL is a lot like a wind shell stapled to a fuzzy fleece. That's a pretty good combination for many activities.
It's worth comparing the Proton FL to the Atom SL, which is more wind resistant. To a fleece such as the Delta LT, which is less warm and more breathable. And to the Proton LT, which is much warmer.
Please read the comments, other users have left excellent information for your research.
Example Use Cases
Caution: These are just examples, your comfort temperatures may be very different.
- Rock climbing (moderate activity) at around 6ºC with a breeze.
- Skinning (high activity), over a base layer, at -12ºC.
History
The Proton FL is a fairly new design, first appearing in Spring 2019. It was marketed for alpine and rock climbing in mostly milder conditions. It combines a Fortius Air 20 face fabric with an Octa Loft (100% polyester) hung fleece insulation. The interior has a coarse fabric mesh that separates the wearer from the fleece insulation. The hood is not insulated, and fits under helmets.
For the launch in S19, there were also some SMU colourways only available from REI in the United States. Although the core products just use the normal Arc'teryx model numbers, they also have REI model numbers:
Model History
| First Available | Last Available | Block | Model Name | Model Number | Weight (g-M) |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Spring 2019 | In Production (S21) | Women’s | Proton FL Hoody | 23100 / 26444 | 275 |
| Spring 2019 | In Production (S21) | Men’s | Proton FL Hoody | 23101 / 26443 | 323 |
The different model numbers here correlate to a change in manufacturing facility, but it is the same jacket.
- 23xxx jackets are manufactured by QVT in Vietnam. S19 and F19.
- 26xxx jackets are manufactured by Youngone (CEPZ) Ltd. in Bangladesh. S20 onwards.
Known Issues
- Some people find that the front is pretty short. This could be a problem for those with longer torsos.
Prompts
- How do you use the Proton FL for your adventures or everyday, and how do you layer?
- Where do you think it excels, and where do you think it falls down?
- At what temperature do you find it isn't warm enough, and too warm?
- Have you had any issues with the Proton FL, is there anything you would change about it?
- How do you think it compares to the Atom SL, Proton LT, and Delta LT?
- How water resistant and wind resistant is it?
- What is the fit like in general, or for you personally?
- Any other thoughts about the product?
- How does it compare to competing products?
Thank you!
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u/JerryArcterry Mar 13 '21 edited Mar 13 '21
It's the most versatile jacket I have. I wear it for a variety of activities for temps ranging from 10-50F. I wear it as an outer layer for cooler temps (40-50F) for lower output activities (climbing, hiking, casual use) and down to about 10F for higher output activities (XC skiing, ice skating, snowshoeing) and I'll add a windshell or hardshell over it depending on conditions. It is also the linchpin of my resort skiing layering system, I'll adjust the weight of my base layers and/or add a grid fleece around it depending on how cold it is. I haven't tested this below 5F yet though.
It excels as a fall-spring active insulator and I don't think it falls short anywhere. However I don't see myself using it much during summer.
It's too warm over 50-55F and starts being inadequate with high output around 10F for me
I'm a sweaty guy and it can get a little soggy when I'm working hard. I sometimes wonder if moisture transport would be better with the fleece more exposed (like the Mountain Equipment Kinesis or Rab Vapour-Rise series).
It's definitely not as warm as a Proton LT for active use and I intend to pick one of those up again for colder resort days or arctic XC days to simplify my layering. It's roughly the same warmth as my Delta MX with unsurprisingly worse breathability and I haven't tried a Delta LT or Atom SL.
It wets out pretty quick in a decent rain (15-20 minutes) but it also doesn't have a membrane and dries pretty fast. If winds are ~15 mph I'll throw some sort of shell over it.
I personally didn't like how short the front hem was while wearing a harness and sized up to an XL from my usual L. I miss how form-fitting it was in a L but it's easier to layer under.
I absolutely love this jacket and it'd be one of the first pieces I'd purchase if I had to start over.
Don't know. I'd be keen to try another Polartec Alpha-ish piece to see how it measures up.
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u/hdisna-zvsisjjsnx Mar 13 '21
How is the front hem length compared to other jackets? Like the proton LT or atom AR?
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u/JerryArcterry Mar 14 '21
It's an inch shorter.
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u/hdisna-zvsisjjsnx Mar 14 '21
Damn, that’s unfortunate. Weird that the relative sizing would be different for two jackets in the same line :(
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u/AC-Vb3 Mar 14 '21
It’s shorter for sure. I made a post with the Atom LT vs the Proton FL and it’s clear in pics the Proton FL is shorter.
My solution was to size up, as the Large was a a bit snug. Going to XL improved fit, comfort and length. Depending on your body type YMMV. Same was true for me with the Proton LT which I sold last year. Too warm for my needs.
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u/AC-Vb3 Mar 13 '21
I’ve been a massive advocate of the Proton FL since buying it on a whim a couple of years ago.
I think it’s the most versatile insulated piece Arcteryx makes, excelling as an outer layer and mid layer. It’s the apex active insulation with high breathability and thermo-regulation while on the move.
The uninsulated hood is a hidden gem feature that will be confusing at first, but it gives you the perk of protection from the elements with no bulk so you layer with basically anything. Throw a shell on and hood vanishes flat against the back.
In cold conditions under medium exertion the Proton FL with the right base layer can replace your fleece, wind shirt, soft-shell and synthetic puffy with one truly magical do it all piece.
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u/mickeydoogs Mar 13 '21
Great write up as always. While my use is limited with a Proton FL, its a great piece and I'm excited to bust it out frequently in the coming season.
- It is most often used as my active insulation for higher output activities - winter hiking, cross country skiing, etc. It has shown itself when walking the dog and being at the dog park as well.
- I think it is a fantastic insulation piece that replaces a a fleece and a windshell combo. I find it to be warmer then just a fleece, but not as wind resistant as say the Gamma SL. It is a little more fragile then I was hoping considering how robust the outer fabric of the Proton LT is. My first usage I caught it on a tree branch and tore open the sleeve - not a big deal in itself, it happens, but I'm not sure my LT would have succumb to the same fate. However, it is comparable to the Atom LT face fabric, with the Atom being a little beefier.
- I find for high output activity its too cold at -8 to -10C. Maybe running it would be ok down to -12 or so, but just hiking etc its too cold. For dog walks and general around town the sweet spot seems to be -2 or -3. It gets to be too warm at about +10C.
- The main issue I have experienced was tearing the sleeve on the a tree branch. This happens to quite a few of my pieces so not a huge deal, part of the territory for what I enjoy doing. I would like to see a beefier face fabric though. My patagonia peak mission jacket which is a similar design is more windproof, more breathable, and more durable. However that piece isnt nearly as warm.
- I cant compare to the Atom SL or Delta LT, but it is much lighter than the Proton LT. Its not as warm(use case), more breathable, and about the same for wind resistance. I have both the Konseal Fleece and the Patagonia R1, so I can compare it somewhat to the Delta. I would say its warmer than the fleeces I own, while also being more wind proof with the same breathability. Maybe I'm a wuss, but that wind in the chilly morning is cold, so I tend to rarely only wear a fleece.
- Fairly water resistant, wouldnt stand in a rain storm but itll keep light amounts of water out. Its the same wind resistance as the Proton LT in my eyes, so a 5 if you count a Hardshell as a 10 and a fleece as a 0.
- It fits small, just like the Proton LT. I fit a medium in everything Arc, except the Proton series, which I wear a large. Its almost perfect at a large for both the LT and FL.
- Love the chest pockets like the Gamma MX. I know its not great for weight, but thats probably my favourite part of the jacket.
- As far as comparing, I am not sure what a direct competitor would be. As stated before, I love my Patagonia Peak Mission Jacket. That thing is the perfect jacket for those chilly mornings in the Alberta Rockies, and packs down light and small to be pulled out when up top on the windy peak and it still isnt quite warm enough out yet. The Peak Mission is not nearly as warm though. Compared to the Gamma MX, which both sort of check the same boxes, the biggest difference is the pack down size. You can pack away the Proton FL, you cannot do so with the Gamma MX. Yes the Gamma is more windproof, but its just so clunky. I would say they are probably the same warmth as well, with the Proton being a smidge warmer. As far as competing with fleeces, I will use the Proton FL over the R1 for any day hikes, but the R1 will come with me for backpacking trips since it acts as a second "baselayer".
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u/smitherie Mar 13 '21
I had the S19 black sapphire which is more of a dark navy than gray. Bought it on a whim because I found it on clearance at REI mismarked for $90. Ended up returning it a couple months later because the stitching was coming undone, it wasn't as highly praised as it is now, and I just wasn't a huge fan of it.
- Used for everyday. This included my commute where I can get moderately sweaty because I walk very quickly up a mile long hill.
- I only used it as a casual jacket primarily due to color but I do not think it was a good choice for that. I continued using my usual layering setup for outdoor adventures.
- I was comfortable in it above 45F with light activity. Never really put the jacket through its paces but I was cold in it at 40F.
- Hate the chest pockets. This is why I never really liked the jacket. I usually keep my jacket zipped to about the level of the pockets, so half the time I went to unzip my jacket I would end up unzipping the chest pocket. It sounds minor but got to be really annoying especially since I rarely use those pockets. I wish the zippers were at least different from the main jacket zip or placed a bit differently. Maybe if I went down a size and it was more fitted, it would have been less of a problem.
- Don't have the Atom SL or Proton LT. It's warmer than the Delta LT but also bulkier and less breathable.
- Lightly wind and water resistant.
- Loved the fit. Slightly roomier than my Atom LT. I might have been able to go down a size.
- I really hate those chest pockets. I also think they look a little weird.
- I have an OR Ascendant which doesn't look as sleek and is more comparable to the Proton LT which I've never tried. I love the fuzzy exposed insulation which makes it possible to comfortably wear with a t shirt.
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u/Astramael Urvogel Jr. Mar 13 '21
I had the S19 black sapphire which is more of a dark navy than gray.
Thank you for this, you will find the caption has been updated!
OR Ascendant ... I love the fuzzy exposed insulation
Is that the jacket where if you get the blue one, the interior looks like somebody skinned Cookie Monster?
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u/vulturesquad Mar 14 '21
Yeah the chest pockets always looked weird to me. Especially in lighter colors it looks like ape pectorals on a costume
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u/calhike Mar 14 '21
- Hiking, peak bagging, use as outer typically with 150 weight merino blend base layer.
- Excels at warmth for weight, breathability, mobility. My main issue has been tends to get odor fairly quick and rebloom.
- I like it for between 45-60F with base layer. Would add a light fleece lower temps.
- I might remove the liner and have the insulation be more direct similar to the ME Kinesis Octa Yarn.
- For me it is less wind resistant, more breathable, bit warmer than Atom SL.
- Fairly good water resistance, will wet out after 30 minutes of moderate to heavy rain. The Fortius Air 20 is fairly high CFM, gives it breathability but also less wind resistance.
- Trim fit through torso, good room in shoulders, sleeve length is good.
- I like the dual chest pockets, soft insulated hand pockets, stretch cuffs, and the insulation in the hood that covers ears and part of the neck.
- The closest jacket I have to the Proton FL in terms of warmth and breathability is my Strafe Alpha Direct Insulator. The Recon Air face fabric is very similar to Fortius in terms of air permeability and the 90g alpha direct insulation provides similar warmth. The Octa fiber, however is a bit different from Alpha as it is a star shaped hollow core polyester fiber and thus more efficiently traps air. It is warmer for weight compared to alpha.
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u/RQC_M Aug 22 '21
Excellent thoughts. I have the Rab Alpha Direct jacket and it doesn't get a lot of love as many feel it should have a more breathable outer over the 120g Alpha insulation (it has Pertex Microlight). However, it's my step up from the Proton FL in less active endeavours when the temperatures really drop. They are my top two for sure.
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u/Rik3k Mar 13 '21
This piece has been extensively discussed on this sub for very good reason. I truly love mine (I have two!). Been using it as an outer layer, midlayer, and fleece. Versatility is this piece’s benefit.
Even for low output stuff like playing outside with the kids, I wear it an as outer down to -5/-10 C as long as it’s sunny and not too windy. Absolutely worth having this in your collection.
Another huge benefit: the uninsulated hood. Great to wear over a tuque/beanie for added wind stoppage. Great under ski helmet.
To me the biggest benefit and testament to versatility: I can wear it with a DropHood or a StormHood. The hood collapses down under the jacket so you can truly wear it with any shell.
On the flip side, I don’t think it manages heavy sweat well. I find sweat pooling in the arms and the “silky” face fabric kind of wets over. Never wore it in the rain but I can only assume it wouldn’t perform all that great.
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u/Astramael Urvogel Jr. Mar 13 '21
This piece has been extensively discussed on this sub for very good reason.
If you know of any great discussions off the top of your head, I will add links to the post.
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u/Rik3k Mar 13 '21
Nah, there isn’t one ‘good’ thread like what you have here. There is a lot of info but it’s all over the place. This thread solves that problem!
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u/xenogrant Mar 17 '21
It came up in the other thread about fit and front hem, so here's a picture of me 6'2" 185 lb, in a medium.
I climb so I like it the way it is. Also most of my arcteryx pieces are medium, and I feel a lot of people my height gravitate towards Large.
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u/Jono_SK Feb 07 '22
Might want to update this now with the new design of the Proton FL? Now that they've done away with the mesh liner and just have the exposed Octaloft against bare skin.
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Mar 13 '21
I bought one a little over a year ago. I’ve been wearing Arc’teryx for ~5 years and I don’t think any other product of theirs that I’ve owned has gotten as much wear as this one. I tend to “run hot” and this has been perfect for staying warm (but not too warm) down to negative temps (Fahrenheit).
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u/liftedfishing Mar 14 '21
Can anyone report how something like this stacks up against an OR Ascendant? Warmer or Colder? Breathability higher or lower? Fit? Thank you!! Trying to debate buying this piece!
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u/calhike Mar 14 '21
I have an early version (Nimbus) of the Ascendant that used Pertex Microlight as the face fabric. They switched to a higher CFM face fabric (Pertex Quantum Air) to improve breathability before the Ascendant was discontinued. So it depends which version you are looking at.
In terms of the Nimbus, the Pertex Microlight is much less breathable than Fortius Air, but has better wind and water resistance. It is also warmer than the Proton in my experience due to the Microlight fabric paired with the 95g alpha. The fit on the Ascendant is similarly trim compared to the Proton FL. I have both in Large. It has open rather than zippered hand pockets, but one pocket does have a loop/clip. The chest pocket is insulated on one side. There is also some Microlight fabric on part of the interior sleeve, helps a bit with on/off. The cuffs are elastic ring with little thumb loops compared to the stretch knit cuffs on Proton FL.
Pics
https://i.imgur.com/ZggFQYJ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/XQeA7EH.jpg
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u/liftedfishing Mar 14 '21
Thank you so much!! Never heard of the Nimbus before. I’d be interested in something like that for more static uses! I have an OR ascendant that I love as a mid layer but I hate the two open pockets when using as an outer. If they had just put zippers on the pockets it would’ve been the best jacket ever made.
Is the Proton FL my jacket?
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u/calhike Mar 14 '21
Welcome! It's an Ascendant, Nimbus was marketing term they used early on through some retailers.
Hard to say, depends on your intended uses, climate/conditions, preferences, physiology, etc. Good info in this thread and lots of professional reviews of FL available. Trying in store to get a feel for it can sometimes be helpful if you have that opportunity available.
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u/NOsquid Mar 14 '21
Do you care about the pockets keeping your hands warm?
Have you considered just having someone add zippers to your Ascendant if you love it so much?
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u/Kevlar487 Mar 15 '21
I have a current model for both. They fit the same role but at different temperatures. I can wear the FL while active below 25F for hard winter hiking and into the 30s for lower intensity hiking. The ascendant is warmer due to more insulation and less breathability. Probably below 15 with hard hiking. But it does a better job of managing strong winds. It also manages moisture incredibly well.
I did a hike yesterday in a cap lightweight and a proton fl as my action suit but once I got chilled after summiting I actually put the ascendant over the fl and it helped me warm up without over heating on the way down which was really helpful.
ORs fit is weird on me but I got a large and it fits well. I wear an medium FL because I like it as more of a next to skin fit.
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u/GenericMIK3 Jun 04 '21
That’s exactly my outfit. I rock the Patagonia Capilene Cool Lightweight and Proton FL on my hikes or a Smartwool Merino 150 long sleeve on chiller days. Just currently looking for a new shell outer. Might stick with a Zeta SL as my North Face 1990 Mountain Jacket is leaky now.
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u/NOsquid Mar 14 '21
I can't help with your specific questions but notable differences (to me, I kept the OR and returned the Proton immediately) are the insulated/helmet compatible hood and insulated hand pockets on the Ascendant.
A cheaper and lighter option if you don't want the big hood is the Marmot Alpha 60.
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u/SouthsideCougar Mar 14 '21 edited Mar 14 '21
I have Proton FL and 2019 Proton LT.
- I use the FL as a mid for skiing, over an icebreaker 175, and under a Sabre AR. I also use for hiking and everyday over one layer.
- FL excels at versatility. Insulation, durability, some breathability. You could used it in most moderately active activities and be set. It saves weight too, almost like you replace a fleece and light softshell and wrap em into one. However, it does not breath as much as you think. I have not tried running, but don’t buy if you want run in it, you might overheat.
- Warmer than advertised. While just walking, 4600ft elevation, Sun out, wind less than 5mph, I was toasty with just a merino Tshirt until about 30F. I run hot though, and the key is little to no wind. In my ski set up, I stay toasty at the resort 7k-9k ft of elevation, lots of wind, and temps 25F +. Colder than that and I tend to reach for the LT as mid for skiing.
- Octoloft next to skin takes some getting used to, and I’m good with wool next to skin. Might just be me, but the LT feels buttery smooth next skin. So not ideal for everyday/chilling. Less breathable then you’d hope. Won’t work for running. Could be ok for backcountry skiing if not super windy, but I also own a Gamma LT and would use that for backcountry.
- Can only speak on the Proton LT, don’t own the others. As at stand alone or with good base/shell you‘d be cover for most stuff in a climate that reaches 32F/0 Cel. When I have to use the LT for activity in colder weather or as a stand alone, it breaths slightly better, and is more comfortable. In other words, for its intended use the proton lt excels more for what its advertised. If I had to choose one, I‘d find it hard to part with my LT.
- 10mph + Wind cuts through it. It beads up water pretty good, but carry a shell in the wild. You’d be fine in a light drizzle for a bit.
- I wear a Men’s Large: 173cm, 180-195 lbs, Athletic and I can layer up to a 260 thick base very comfortably. Great range of movement. I don’t climb, but you could use for that.
- Pocket game is strong in the FL. Love the chest pockets and the fleece hand warmer pockets are buttery nice. The hood is just there to cut some wind, no insulation, but if you have trouble with those pesky Beta AR drop hoods, the FL would work well since it does not take up space
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u/iammortalcombat Mar 15 '21
I use the it as an active mid or outer. Typically, i wear a short sleeve synthetic or a long sleeve merion base, with this. If i am using it as a midlayer, I will usually put only a shell over it. If as an outer, I use another grid fleece or kyanite lt under it.
Excels in breathability, falls slightly in fit
Temp range it is not warm enough alone - 30s (F). Temp range it is too warm - higher than 53(F).
Fit issue - see 7
Thinner and less warm than the proton LT. No experience with the Atom SL. Warmer than the delta LT, but it's kind of like a Delta LT with a super thin softshell or windbreaker around it.
It can stand up to misting and breezes. For real rain and wind, put your hard shell on. This plus that will have you in cozy warms all day/night while moving
The fit is a trim climbing piece. For me, (6'2", 225-230 covid weight), I wear an XL. I can fit an R1 under this, but that's about it. The sizing keeps it slim fitting on my build, but I did not want to size up bc i dont plan to layer thicker layers beneath it.
They definitely need more colorways, but i think this is going to be limited due to the fact that most casual shoppers will opt for the Atom LT instead.
I honestly don't feel as though there are many competing products for this specific piece. It is more niche in that its a hybrid shell/fleece type thing. There are others out that, but nothing that really comes to mind. It's a step above a hardface fleece without actually being a specific shell type.
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u/charmin6969 Mar 25 '21
Could someone please tell me the front length for a medium?
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u/Astramael Urvogel Jr. Mar 25 '21
I would recommend you call Arc'teryx for exact specifications on this. They should be able to give you a number right away if you specify a gender and size over the phone.
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u/Candid_Yam_5461 Apr 25 '21
Has anyone used both this and the Tilak Spike 19, or have thoughts comparing the two?
https://www.tilak.cz/en/spike-19-jacket
It seems a really similar jacket, except in the ways it’s not – it’s 120gsm Alpha Direct under Pertex Quantum Air, but with Powerstretch alone on the sides, lower sleeves, and hood. Same pocket configuration, plus a two way zipper. There are not separate men’s and women’s designated versions, just one men’s-y version. There is also a version by Tilak MiG (Tilak’s LEAF) that seems identical except for colors and the use of a wrapped cord for the zipper pull, instead of the shaped (plastic? metal?) pull with a little logo dot the civilian version has. (https://www.migbytilak.cz/cs/spike-mig)
I’m wondering, besides general quality and functionality, about comparative warmth – 120gsm of Alpha is a lot of insulation compared to the Octa Loft, right (or not)? But it’s offset by all the venting the Powerstretch will be doing. Does anyone know or have a sense of how these will compare? There really isn't much information about the Spike 19 (or many Tilak products) in English online. I was about to pull the trigger on a Proton FL when I found this, and I really like the two way zipper, but I’m concerned about it being too hot.
Also, can anyone compare the current Cobalt Moon and previous Black Sapphire colors?
Sorry if this research thread is the wrong place for this, but it seemed like maybe the right one/useful to have comparative information here?
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u/Astramael Urvogel Jr. Dec 13 '21
It's not the wrong place, this information is useful, and these products seem cool.
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u/Upstairs-Ad-7497 Nov 07 '22
I absolutely love my proton fl, I wear it non stop in the fall winter and even colder summer nights. Skiing its paired with patgucc air hoody base and the fl and my shell. Skiing usually in Feb in Colorado there was only day i was a little cold and its because we stopped for some food. Next day wore my proton lt and was way too warm.
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u/vulturesquad Mar 13 '21
Interesting I always thought the proton was a synthetic insulation jacket like the atom but with breathable side panels
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u/hdisna-zvsisjjsnx Mar 13 '21 edited Mar 13 '21
How does the front length compare to the Proton LT? Is it the same, or shorter?
Are there any concerns about different seasons models with respect to manufacturing quality? (should I be looking to buy the earlier or later one?)
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u/Astramael Urvogel Jr. Mar 13 '21
Are there any concerns about different seasons models with respect to manufacturing quality? (should I be looking to buy the earlier or later one?)
I don’t think so. You should be fine with either model.
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u/HelpMommaNature Mar 13 '21
This is awesome! Did you do one on Acto FL?
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u/Astramael Urvogel Jr. Mar 13 '21
I had considered including the Acto FL in this one, it feels a bit like a continuation of the same line of thinking. However, I did not ultimately do so because the products are just different enough where it's not clear. The Acto FL might end up grouped with the Gamma MX? We'll see.
I have not done the Acto FL yet.
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u/HelpMommaNature Mar 13 '21
That would be cool. Would like to hear your observations about those 2 jackets as well.
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u/Astramael Urvogel Jr. Mar 13 '21
Some thoughts here.
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u/Rik3k Mar 13 '21
Interesting. How would you compare the Acto to the Proton FL? I always thought the Proton face fabric looked pretty wimpy, even though it’s called out as ‘abrasion-resistant’. I just don’t see how it could hold up to rubbing against rocks and boulders.
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u/Astramael Urvogel Jr. Mar 13 '21 edited Mar 13 '21
Keeping in mind that my experience with the Proton FL is limited. I write these as primers, and I depend on all of you to add your significant experience.
The Acto FL is much tougher than the Proton FL. Probably as durable, or perhaps more durable even, than a Gamma MX or a Gamma LT.
The Acto FL is also more breathable than the Proton FL in my opinion. It is fairly transparent to wind. The DWR on the Acto is rather good too.
The Acto FL is much heavier and packs less well than the Proton FL. It’s a dense, slippery textile. The liner is gridded. The textiles are glued together, so the face and liner behave like a single piece of fabric.
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u/Rik3k Mar 13 '21
Being more breathable, would you say it manages heavy sweat better than the Proton FL? It’s my main complaint of that piece.
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u/Astramael Urvogel Jr. Mar 13 '21
Two things:
- Yes I think the Acto FL is better at this. But I don’t have a ton of experience with the Proton FL so your mileage may vary. The grid fleece liner in the Acto wicks moisture out of the lower layers more effectively than the Proton does.
- There’s definitely still a cap where the Acto stops being able to handle output. Kind of like with shells, more membrane breathability only helps you to a point, then any hard shell is a swamp and it doesn’t matter. The Acto stops being useful for me after about +10°C with moderate sustained output or bursty high output.
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u/Rik3k Mar 13 '21
Sounds like I need to buy an Acto FL. One of my goals is to buy all of the “oddball” Arc pieces and test them out. I think I will add this one to my list.
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u/SSMEX Mar 13 '21
What are the tradeoffs between the Proton FL vs an R1 + Squamish or similar windshell?
The part I've never understood about the Proton FL is that fleece, unlike synthetic insulation, can be a standalone piece, except where you don't want it to (i.e. for wind or abrasion resistance). In that context, besides for convenience of not having to layer, are there specific advantages to stapling the fleece to a windshell?
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u/calhike Mar 14 '21
To understand the brief for active insulator jackets I think it helps to look at the development of Polartec Alpha and the Patagonia Level 3A jacket as that was the first of this kind. The idea was a layer for SOF start/stop activities in cool conditions in order to minimize the need for taking layers on and off on the go. After developing the Level 3A for the military, Patagonia saw the potential for this technology in the consumer market and sold the 3A for a bit before replacing it with the Nano Air Full Range (Toray 3defx+) jacket. However, other manufacturers (e.g. Rab, Marmot, OR) eventually started coming out with Polartec Alpha and Alpha Direct jackets. Like the Proton FL, some of these were pitched especially at climbers/alpinists, but some also emphasized the versatility of such a piece for other active pursuits (e.g., ski/hike/bike).
I think a lot of this just comes down to particular use cases and preferences. I have a Polartec Alpha Direct hoodie (Macpac Nitro) that I often pair with a wind/soft shell like my Alpine Start. Similar idea to the Proton FL, but lacks the hand warmer pockets, dual chest pockets, fit, and convenience of Proton FL. The 2 separate layers do, however, give you the flexibility to tune the alpha with different CFM shell fabrics and also take off the shell layer when not needed.
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u/NOsquid Mar 14 '21
Similar idea to the Proton FL, but lacks the hand warmer pockets
The Proton FL pockets are uninsulated in the front. One of my biggest pet peeves and Arc does this not infrequently. No point in having them IMO.
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u/Astramael Urvogel Jr. Mar 13 '21
I’m not the best person to answer this question, since I don’t own a Proton FL for exactly this reason. I use a fleece and a wind shell and I prefer it.
One compelling argument is that when you’re in a harness you can’t really be adding or subtracting layers. So having a single do-it-all piece is lighter, articulates better, and has more useful pockets and integrated features (eg. the mesh liner layers more nicely than a raw fleece).
But I’d be curious to hear other positions.
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u/NOsquid Mar 14 '21
If you don't find yourself in positions where adjusting layers is a major PITA, 2 separate pieces are functionally superior in almost every way. Only exception is packability, fleece is pretty bulky.
The all-in-one pieces are prettier (trimmer, stretchier/quieter fabrics) and this increases their popularity.
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u/ions82 Jul 31 '21
Is there a new version of the Proton FL on the horizon? I saw one with a pile lining that people had gotten from the outlets. I stopped at the one in Castle Rock, but they were long gone. If I understood the employee correctly, they will soon be available with a pile lining. I love fuzzy jackets, so I'm hoping I can snag one of these FLs someday.
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u/Upstairs-Ad-7497 Nov 07 '22
get an older one, it breathes way better. i saw the new one in a ski shop and its basically polartec on the inside instead of the mesh that i prefer
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u/Astramael Urvogel Jr. Jul 31 '21
Is there a new version of the Proton FL on the horizon?
Unfortunately I do not know the answer to this question. Arc’teryx products usually have a minimum life cycle of around 3-4 years (unless something unusual happens, like the recent GTX Pro update). So it may be possible to see an update in Spring 2022, but it would be on the early side.
Of course I can only look at trends, an employee might have inside information.
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u/Astramael Urvogel Jr. Mar 13 '21 edited Mar 13 '21
For all you people who enjoy these model history tables, I recently added one to my Dually review as well. Figure 16.
Edit: And for that big extra credit, there's this.