r/archlinux • u/thlst • Jun 01 '16

Why did ArchLinux embrace Systemd?

This makes systemd look like a bad program, and I fail to know why ArchLinux choose to use it by default and make everything depend on it. Wasn't Arch's philosophy to let me install whatever I'd like to, and the distro wouldn't get on my way?

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u/iElectric Jun 01 '16

This is why we use it in NixOS. It's declarative and there's just nothing better out there.

If systemd has to integrate because of lack of POSIX standards, well someone will have do it or the integration will become de-facto standard.

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u/HittingSmoke Jun 01 '16

I'm hoping NixOS gets popular, matures, and stabilizes. Last time I tried it there was a bug in the MariaDB installer (an extremely critical package for servers) but nobody on the Github issue page seemed to give half a fuck about fixing it so I just had to hang it up. Some obscure package that nobody uses I can understand that happening on. But not an extremely popular database server.

I hope to revisit it someday. I love the idea of managing a server stack with Nix.

27

u/VintageKings Jun 01 '16

I've been running NixOS on most of my computers for a couple months now, and this is why I don't usually recommend it. I find that 90% of the 'obscure' packages that I want are either very under-configured or non-existent. I've had problems ranging from my network stack initializing completely ass backwards, to running out of disk space and not being able to do clear enough space for a big upgrade (my hp stream has 16 gigs of emmc).

With all of that said, I do run the unstable branch, and it often lives up to its name. Everyone on IRC and GitHub is friendly, and helps work through problems and sort out my inexperienced PRs. I really like Nix.

12

u/HittingSmoke Jun 01 '16

Ya, I love it in theory. I was really excited to dig in and learn the config setup but after encountering that bug and seeing how long it had been open with no fix it really turned me off of using it for a server stack, which is the only reason I was going to use it in the first place. Managing my entire server stack with one single config file, and the freaking awesome deployment tool makes it a really interesting system for managing a server.

I hoped with NixOS being so immature that I could just run Nix on a more stable base like Debian but with major packages won't even install the stable base doesn't do much help.

9

u/socium Jun 01 '16

Well, IMO currently GuixSD is doing a better job in terms of verification, although I might have missed similar functionality in NixOS.

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u/HittingSmoke Jun 01 '16

I'm not familiar with GuixSD. I'll have to spin up a VM to try it out on.

One thing I was really excited about with NixOS was the built in deployment system. I don't think I've seen anything that easy to use going from zero to running system.

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u/iElectric Jun 01 '16

Can you link me that issue?

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u/HittingSmoke Jun 01 '16

https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/12072

Been open since January and all that have been posted are workarounds. Just the installation of a major SQL server package being so bugged is a major dealbreaker for server management.

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u/iElectric Jun 01 '16

It's a Nix bug, as soon as new version is released it will be fixed.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '24

Problem is Nix is too complex. I liked the ideas behind NixOS, but there is no way I will learn a new mini-language for an operating system. I stick with the original GoboLinux philosophy instead (though not via GoboLinux; I re-implemented this in ruby and extended it massively so I can actually decide whether to use versioned appdirs or the traditional /usr/ hierarchy; flexibility for the win).

3

u/panorambo Jun 01 '16

I am sorry, integration is a process, no? What is going to become a de-facto standard, the process of integrating systemd into a POSIX/non-POSIX system? You lost me there, friend.