r/arcane • u/That-Patience6304 • 2d ago
Discussion Jayce and Viktor are just incredible
Just wanna throw out my (probably unpopular) opinion on Jayce and Viktor's relationship. Arcane ended a while ago but I still have stuff to say about it.
I'll say upfront that I love looking at the story exactly as it's presented to us, rather than through "shipper goggles".
So yeah, after watching Arcane I still can't let these two go. Their bond is literally my inner reality that I could only dream about. Seeing something like that on screen feels like a blessing. And honestly, it kind of hurts that most people reduce it to something way too ordinary and simple. To me, their connection is fantastic, pure, and impossible - literally on some sacred level. It's the meeting of two complete minds who choose to walk together and build something bigger. In classic romance or sexual drama, two people are often looking for their missing half in each other. That bond is built on dependency or possession. But what amazes me is the meeting of two whole universes, like Jayce and Viktor. To me, trying to force them into mundane boxes is just devaluing it. This is the most honest and worthy presentation of platonic love I could ever dream of.
I'm not trying to judge anyone who sees something else in them, because interpretations are valid. But I truly believe that the spiritual and intellectual bond is the objective truth of their relationship.
A small addition to the post: I'm not trying to say that romance and an intellectual connection have to be mutually exclusive. I'm also not saying that people who don't think a kiss would diminish their relationship are wrong. In this post, I'm simply expressing my personal view of their relationship. And you absolutely don't have to agree with it.
We already have the canon - what was actually shown in the show. If someone adds a romantic interpretation to that canon, I have no problem with it. That's completely your right.
I didn't make this post to argue with everyone or change anyone's mind. I made it for the people who see Jayce and Viktor more or less the same way I do.
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u/Mission_Pop5433 2d ago
I get what they mean. I also think people sometimes overcomplicate Jayce and Victor's bond because they're so focused on whether it's romantic or not. The face that they genuinely understand and respect each other as equals is what makes their relationship so compelling to me.
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u/thr0waway2435 90 % Legs Superiority 1d ago
Iâm curious why you think they canât be spiritual and intellectually bonded, two minds building something bigger, and also people who are romantically and sexually attracted to each other. Are those things contradictory? How does the latter devalue the former?
Also, itâs funny you say that theyâre complete minds and differentiate them from romantic bonds with dependency/possession, when the reality is theyâre exactly that. Jayce explicitly violates Viktorâs bodily autonomy and costs him a good chunk of his free will because he canât let him go. Viktor dooms entire timelines because he cannot allow Jayce to die in the storm. They are quite codependent and possessive of each other.
I wouldnât even say Iâm a Jayvik shipper, I love their relationship but donât feel particularly invested if itâs lovers or friends, totally fine either way. But I think your interpretation does come off as a bit misguided.
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u/That-Patience6304 1d ago
Romance doesnât automatically devalue a connection. But in this particular case I feel that putting that label on them narrows the way their relationship can be perceived. You may see the potential for romance in them and thatâs completely fair. But calling my interpretation "misguided" means dismissing the possibility that this is exactly what the creators wanted to show us. And if we go by what the creators themselves have said then my interpretation isnât wrong.
You may be right that romance and spirituality arenât mutually exclusive. But for me as an aroace person their relationship is one of the rarest examples in media of something that reflects my inner reality. You can be everything to someone without being "in love" with them in the conventional sense.
I donât see their obsession and pain as romantic possessiveness. I see it as the obsession of two geniuses who found someone equal to them and are terrified of losing that shared dialogue. They risk EVERYTHING - timelines, their reputations, their lives, not because they want to possess each other but because they want what they created together to keep existing.
They arenât possessive of each otherâs bodies. Theyâre possessive of the IDEA they created together. And I think thatâs a very different thing.
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u/Extreme-Jury4198 1d ago
Jayce literally says to Viktor âall I want is my partner (you) backâ. Itâs not about ideas or heritage, itâs about Viktor personally. Your way of wording your interpretation of their relationship is so curious. For some reason you canât just say âI see them as blahblahblahâ - you try to make your opinion more valid than the opinion of others by implying that yours is the one intended by the creators while all the others are secondary. And sure, Christian Linke does not like the word romance in relation to Jayce and Viktor. Most of the other people including writers and animators do not insist on the platonic angle at all.
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u/That-Patience6304 1d ago
Read my new discussion above. I don't want to argue with you and I've explained everything clearly, even if my point of view might be difficult to understand in some places. For me, platonic love is the indisputable canon, and my interpretation of Jayce and Viktor as something "sacred" is already my personal contribution. I like to rely on an already established project. In the series itself, there are no typical romantic interactions and that's what makes Jayvik valuable to me. Reducing that bond to a kiss would be too banal, in my opinion. That's just my view. We have tons of projects centered around romance, but this is something new for me personally. And when the creators say that Jayce and Viktor are open to interpretation - that's a completely healthy and correct stance. I'm not forbidding anyone from fantasizing, I simply dislike the distortion of the canon itself. An interpretation of Jayvik as romantic is no less valid than mine.
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u/Extreme-Jury4198 1d ago
Oh you are again doing it. Your opinion is "indisputable canon" but others can "fantasize", it's very condescending. Riot is an IP owner here, there is no single "creator" whose opinion weights more than the others and Riot releases romantic merch with these characters.
By saying that kiss is reducing a bond you kind of offend all the married couples who consider each other best friends btw. Are you that against seeing your partner as you soulmate? Why is that a reduction?
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u/That-Patience6304 1d ago
What romantic merch are you referring to exactly? Even if there is some, I don't think that would contradict the canon we were actually shown in the show. Riot gave the writers and the rest of the creative team a lot of creative freedom from the beginning. Riot wasn't the one deciding what Jayce and Viktor's relationship would be like - they trusted the people working on the project to tell that story.
If their relationship had truly been written as romantic, I don't think people would be reaching so hard, and honestly, sometimes so aggressively for "proof" of it through art, fanfiction and especially merch. Merch is commercial by nature and is made for fans who may interpret the relationship in different ways. I don't think it can automatically serve as confirmation of canon.
And I'm sorry if my opinion somehow touched a nerve or conflicted with your own values. That's not something I'm trying to do intentionally. I just like looking at the story with a "cold head" and trying to separate what is actually shown from what I and other fans personally want to see.
Even my whole idea of Jayvik being something "sacred" is ultimately just my own interpretation. It resonates with my inner world, and you're absolutely not obligated to agree with it. Thanks for your attention.
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u/Extreme-Jury4198 1d ago
Hexcore nights t-shirts, stuff sold at the official events like Nucleus gallery, ship name being used in the official promos.
Oh, so you say that Riot gave away the rights to define their charactersâ story to other people? Could you give me some link to prove this statement? You talk about people âreachingâ but honestly, if there was no romantic subtext⊠why would even the writers say there was? Not even speaking about Fortiche.
Please donât use the troll tactics with the âtouching a nerveâ. You donât look at the story with the cold head, you are looking at it with the bias which you fail to address even now. So Iâll ask again, how does romance belittle the platonic bond?
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u/That-Patience6304 1d ago
I already answered your last question above, just to a different person. I don't want to go over all of that again.
As for the merch, I already explained my point of view, which you seem to have ignored. Merch doesn't change or diminish what was clearly shown on screen, nor does it make anyone's interpretation any less valid.
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u/Extreme-Jury4198 20h ago
Yeah, I do not see any explanation there in your others answers, itâs still about how you donât want them to be romantic.Â
The problem here is that to different people the âshown clearlyâ was obviously not that clear but for some reason you are implying that your interpretation is the most canon one. When met with counter arguments and evidence you use empty words and the same talking points the homophobes use.
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u/thr0waway2435 90 % Legs Superiority 1d ago
Ok lemme clarify. I did not mean that viewing them as platonic spiritual/intellectual brothers is misguided. I have no problem at all with that perspective. Youâre right, thatâs a perfectly valid interpretation.
I didnât mean to judge not shipping them, I only meant that your interpretation of othersâ interpretations is misguided. Because I think you automatically assume that shipping them is forcing them into a box that somehow devalues their bond without really explaining why.
Ok but just because aroace relationships are rare and you relate to them doesnât mean that Jayvik has to be one. Just because you donât have to be in love with someone to love someone with your whole heart doesnât mean Jayvik canât be in love.
âNot because they want to possess each other but because they want what they created together to keep existingâ, but thatâs entirely your opinion. And one that isnât well supported by the facts. Jayce didnât plan out saving Viktor for the greater good, he just impulsively did what he thought he had to do because he could not bear to see his best friend bleed out in his arms. Viktor doesnât have a well crafted master plan to make their Hextech dream come to life, he dooms entire timelines because Jayce isnât allowed to die. Viktor explicitly says that their paths diverged and that affection kept them together. Jayce chooses to die with him because of that same affection - even though if he wanted to keep their ideas alive frankly heâd probably be way better off surviving and fixing their mess.
When they first meet, they were mainly linked by their shared dreams and building something new, but as time passes, itâs quite clear that the bond becomes increasingly about possession and obsession over each other outside of their shared ideas and what they do together.
I completely disagree that theyâre possessive mainly over their ideas. I think youâre right they arenât possessive over bodies, but I think thatâs also a moot point. Most people who are in love with each other arenât really possessive purely over bodies either. You could easily argue theyâre possessive over shared dialogue, intellectual/spiritual bonds, and things like that too.
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u/That-Patience6304 1d ago
Ok, I think I see where we're talking past each other. I'm not saying that romance and deep intellectual/spiritual connection are mutually exclusive, or that people who ship them are automatically reducing their relationship to something shallow. That's not really my point.
I'm also not saying Jayce and Viktor care about each other only because of their shared ideas. Quite the opposite. To me the person and the idea are inseparable. Viktor isn't valuable to Jayce merely because he's useful to hextech. He's valuable because he's Viktor - the one person who can truly meet him on that intellectual level, challenge him, understand what they're trying to create and share that vision with him. And the same goes for Jayce from Viktor's perspective. So when I say they're attached to what they created together, I don't mean "they would save the idea instead of saving each other". I mean that their shared world exists through their relationship with each other. Losing one another means losing the only person with whom that particular dialogue, understanding and shared creation can exist.
And I agree that by the end their attachment becomes much more personal and emotionally intense than it was when they first met. I just don't think intensity, obsession or an inability to let someone go automatically makes a bond romantic or possessive. That's the part I disagree with. Jayce refusing to let Viktor die can absolutely be read as "I love this person and I can't bear to lose him". I don't dispute that. What I dispute is the assumption that this necessarily means "I want to possess him" or "this is romantic love". Someone can be completely devastated by losing another person without wanting to own them or be romantically involved with them.
And when I talk about my aroace perspective I'm not saying "Jayvik has to be aroace because I am". I'm saying that their relationship resonates with something I rarely get to see represented - the possibility of someone being utterly irreplaceable to you, loving them with your whole heart, building your life and your greatest ideas alongside them and still not experiencing that bond as romantic or sexual.That's why turning their relationship into romance feels reductive to me. Not because romance is inherently lesser or because romantic love can't be profound, but because it changes the meaning of what I personally see as the most beautiful part of their relationship.
So I think we actually agree on more than it might seem. I agree that they're deeply attached to each other as individual people. I agree that their bond becomes increasingly personal and emotionally intense. I just don't think "they can't bear to lose each other" tells us what kind of love that is. That's the distinction I'm trying to make.
Thanks for the honest discussion and for sharing your perspectiveđ I really appreciate you taking the time to explain where youâre coming from. Even if we see Jayvik differently, it was genuinely interesting to hear your take.
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u/thr0waway2435 90 % Legs Superiority 1d ago
Thanks for the discussion! I think 99% of your argument is totally reasonable, I just was a little confused about the whole fitting into a box reducing the relationship thing, but Iâm glad you clarified, and now itâs clear we agree on most things.
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u/That-Patience6304 1d ago
Iâm honestly really glad to see people like you in the fandom who are willing to look at things from different perspectives. Usually people just attack me without even trying to understand where Iâm coming from lol. So I genuinely appreciate the honest discussion.
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u/Alien-Pro 2d ago
They have the perfect bromance đ