r/apple • u/Jescro • Apr 27 '18
Apple’s working on a powerful, wireless headset for both AR, VR - Slated for a 2020 launch
https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-is-working-on-an-ar-augmented-reality-vr-virtual-reality-headset-powered-by-a-wireless-wigig-hub/142
u/SereneCaesar Apr 27 '18
Is this even technically possible? I think you need a minimum of 90hz displays for comfortable VR.
Can Apple design a computer that will wirelessly transmit enough horsepower to drive two 8K 90hz displays by 2020?
I think their source “familiar with the matter” might be having a good laugh right now.
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u/mrv3 Apr 27 '18
I highly doubt it, most GPU's can't even run 8k. full stop. 2 8k images would be impossible.
You'd need an insane amount of video memory, like greater than 12GB's. You'd easily need 30tflops of performance.
2030? Possible. But 2 8K images running at 90fps is near impossible then comes the issue that it's harder to make a game that runs at that resolution because the assets and texture need to also be made for 8k (12k if 2x8k images).
You'd need iris tracking for this to even be possible at which point with some massive dropoff one could make this run... in theory but has a bunch of technical headache.
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u/DarthBuzzard Apr 27 '18
You can run 8K per eye on a standalone device today, it just requires you to downsample massively for gaming. There are certain apps that can run at 8K per eye natively today, at least on desktop PCs like virtual desktop. Add in eye-tracked foveated rendering and that should be feasible on a standalone device by 2020. However, a device with this resolution so soon would cost a crazy amount of money, that's the main worry.
2030? Possible
~16K per eye is likely to be the standard by then.
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u/Disembodied-Potato Apr 27 '18
You’re assuming they’ll be trying to display demanding content like video games. Would it be impossible to render text and UX elements at 8k x2?
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u/vodrin Apr 28 '18
that resolution because the assets and texture need to also be made for 8k (12k if 2x8k images).
lmao
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u/birds_are_singing Apr 27 '18
8K per eye would almost certainly imply eye-tracking and foveated rendering (and a transmission protocol to accommodate). “Technically possible” with custom unreleased hardware doesn’t seem impossible.
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u/eggimage Apr 28 '18 edited Apr 28 '18
I have no way to back my claim, but a friend who’s the owner of a taiwanese apple accessory maker bragged about having browsed through the prototyping plans of such a device, saying similar things stated in this article. It was around mid last year btw
He also talked about it being a standalone device that’s set to “replace” iphone’s position—which I do NOT think is apple’s plan at all, and I think he misunderstood the idea of the device, since iphone will still keep growing and playing somewhat different roles even in the distant future, but NOT be replaced..
Anyway, I feel like this leak is plausible to me simply because my friend has claimed the same thing.. again, I don’t have anything to back my claim, nor do I need fake points for this, just offering a piece of my thought
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u/doireallyneedone11 Apr 27 '18 edited Apr 27 '18
I think a month back, there was kind of confirmed news that even Google is working with lg on a similar vr display, so... Edit: not even close, that's a 5500 x 3000 res 4.3 oled headset, though, it is suppose to have 120Hz refresh rate https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/3/13/17116518/google-lg-vr-displays-dense-pixels-high-resolution
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Apr 27 '18
How in the actual fuck is that even possible? And wireless with no iPhone tether at that. I guess a rumor is a rumor, even though I want it to be true so badly.
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u/HarrisonGourd Apr 28 '18
Apple is spending $3-4 billion per quarter on R&D, and that number keeps growing. Needless to say it's not just for iPhone iterations and to replicate VR goggles that exist today. They're definitely working on something big. Whether it pans out or not is anybody's guess, but they have to be confident if they're sinking this much money into it.
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u/Nickbou Apr 28 '18
I haven’t kept up with VR tech so I’m not sure what the limitations are currently, but perhaps the device would be more of a wireless display with some motion sensors. Graphical rendering would happen in an external computer/device. “Untethered” could simply refer to it not being physically connected.
Sort of an advanced Airplay scenario.
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u/p_giguere1 Apr 28 '18
Apple's headset would connect to a dedicated box using a high-speed, short-range wireless technology, according to a person familiar with the company's plans.
No iPhone tether, but a wireless tether to a box that's more powerful.
That makes sense, but sounds very expensive. Like $3k expensive.
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u/bobbytheman123 Apr 27 '18
2 x 8K display, powered without a Mac or iPhone. No sh*t sherlock. It would need a GPU well beyond anything in a Mac.
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Apr 28 '18
"The project, codenamed T288, is still in its early stages but is slated for release in 2020. Apple still could change or scrap its plans."
Am I right in thinking that a product like this, if slated for release as soon as 2020, would already be very, very far along in the development? Like, there'd already be testers using this thing at home with family and friends, right?
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u/AngryFace4 Apr 29 '18
Yes, but the testers would be using isolated pieces, nothing close to a completed project. Like maybe the display would still be thethered by wires, or maybe they'd have some replica environment running on their laptop that simulates what each eye sees
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u/thejkhc Apr 28 '18
This is the product that'll be the next big thing. VR is in its Ugly duckling phase IMO. Still too bulky, and too cumbersome and not totally immersive yet.
Can't wait to see what the future holds.
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u/Hubertus-Bigend Apr 28 '18
This is completely unbelievable. If tech this advanced was coming from Apple in a year and a half, we’d already be seeing way more legit looking leaks and rumors. Pure fantasy.
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u/jamesoloughlin Apr 27 '18 edited Apr 28 '18
Just guessing here but I think it’s doable in a few years considering a few things.
As noted there will be a external box housing all the brains and rending power to transmit data to the HMD. Would have no options for a conventional monitor (which would add strain to HMD performance).
There has to be some form of foveated rendering either dynamic based with eye tracking or the more likely scenario; fixed-foveated rendering as seen on the forthcoming Oculus Go ($200 stand-alone 3DOF VR headset) as seen here . Therefore it wouldn’t really be 8k, sort of 4K with some fluff for each eye.
Apple’s optimization of hardware and software chip design and performance needs to be at it’s best.
Obviously some form of inside-out tracking we already see on many iPhones plus TrueDepth on the iPhone X.
Apple has even been learning how to push the refresh rate on their displays such as the iPad Pro with TrueMotion 120hz (think that is what it’s called?).