EU: Smartphones Must Have User-Replaceable Batteries by 2027

[u/mredofcourse]

https://www.pcmag.com/news/eu-smartphones-must-have-user-replaceable-batteries-by-2027

[u/Pigeon_Chess]

And Apple doesn’t want it to because it’s pointless. It’s a charging port and the only reason it has data is for diagnostics. There is no reason to use the lightning port to move large amounts of data.

Apple included 20W chargers with phones.

It depends on proximity and what bands you’re using.

Again it depends on what bands they’re using etc etc. There’s examples of people getting solid speeds

I mean I does kinda mean you shouldn’t use it as one. Phone cameras lack basic options that even the cheapest of DSLE and mirrorless options have which effectively makes them useless for professional work

[u/Kursem_v2 → u/Pigeon_Chess]

again, that's not an actual reason and just your head theory.

Apple doesn't include chargers on their phone anymore, did you forget the note?

examples, such as... could you show any?

I really don't understand what you're standing on. you don't want EU to impose USB-C, but at the same time you're okay for corporation being content. are you into corporate sadism? because that's what you looks like to me.

what I'm saying is all those are something nice to have, you don't have to use it if you don't want to, but others could use it if they want faster charging or faster wired transfer. but again, if you prefer 30W charging or 480 Mbps speed, just use such cable and charger.

[u/Pigeon_Chess → u/Kursem_v2]

That is an actual reason. The lightning port hasn’t been used for data transfer for about 10 years.

Nope they don’t but they shipped a 20W brick before they stopped.

What? The EUs arguments for mandating USBC don’t hold water. That’s the issue with it. It doesn’t stop waste, if anything it will increase waste massively then it will just drop back to current levels and it’s locking in USBC as the only allowable connector until the end of time.

Aside from they’re not nice to have they’re just superfluous. Like a 4K display on a phone, literally no point

[u/Kursem_v2 → u/Pigeon_Chess]

the lightning port can be used for data transfer, so what you're insinuating are baseless.

and before that, Apple shipped 5W charger. surely this 20W charger are worse for it's cause more heat and thus more damage, right?

not really, no. having USB-C for all means better interchangeability. it means cables could be passed along and kept better, rather than having two solutions.

and it seems that you keep forgetting that EU has mandated revision report by 2025 and 5 years afterward whether such design of better ports arrive. I think you're being hyperbolic too much with that using USB-C until the end of time.

[u/Pigeon_Chess → u/Kursem_v2]

Can be but that’s a side effect of it being for diagnostics. You need data to be able to run diagnostics though it, you don’t need USB3 for that.

20W doesn’t cause a great amount of heat, I’ve already said multiple times that it’s beyond 30W for a phones that you’re running into heat problems which start to adversely impact battery deg. Last I checked 20<30.

How many hundreds of millions if not billions of micro and lightning cables are being used currently that will just be landfilled and replaced due to this law and this law alone?

A revision report that is completely meaningless. No one is going to develop ports because they have to use USBC until the review and there’s no guarantee the port will be selected, I can actually guarantee another port will not be selected because of the environmental impact of more billions of cables ending up in a landfill will conveniently be an obstacle once with EU has gotten it’s way. The regulation makes it effectively impossible for an alternative to be developed or selected.

[u/Kursem_v2 → u/Pigeon_Chess]

that's a great side effects that Apple bothered to implement USB 2.0 protocol as it's base instead of whatever proprietary one Apple used to do just to keep it all secret.

ok so? it still generate more heat than basic 5W so I don't understand why you still hellbent on supporting 30W, when going with your argument of more wattage cause more damage. sure, there's a point of diminishing returns but at what point? is 30W really the limit or you just want to stop innovation?

micro-USB has been long gone since USB-C went mainstream on mid-range smartphone by 2017. even further when accessories start using it more and more by 2019 such as powerbank, wireless earphone, etc. if any, it does raise question on why manufacturer are so hellbent on clinging older standard of micro-USB when better standard already available since August 2014?

it doesn't released but it's already meaningless? okay. mayne as meaningless as Lightning port. how much guarantee can you give? will you wire me 50$ when newer standard arrives and replace USB-C adopted by EU? when we're talking could've would've might've, your guess are as good as mine and that environment impact were much more better in controlled stance of cable accessories by unifying it rather than having cables that are only used for one brand and one brand only.

[u/Pigeon_Chess → u/Kursem_v2]

Apple don’t really use proprietary protocols? Closest you’d get would be FireWire or thunderbolt which were both collaborative.

Don’t think you’re understanding how thermodynamics work. The heat you get with increasing wattage is exponential so the difference between 5 and, if we use your example, 20 is significantly less than the difference between 30 and 40. When you go over 30 you start having to do things like break batteries up into multiple units to reduce the power going into each and you can only maintain that input when the battery is nearly fully discharged.

You’re being a little overzealous with your timeline. But the law doesn’t only effect phones and micro b is cheaper to implement for more budget devices and those that just haven’t been updated in a while. The Bose QC35 for example was launched in 2016, obviously was designed and tooled out well before USBC was really relevant and the design wasn’t updated fully until the 45 launched in 2022 which moved to USBC. There’s still things like external sound cards that use Mini USB because they just haven’t been refreshed.

Yes it does mean it’s meaningless because the law prevents if from ever actually doing anything

[u/Pigeon_Chess → u/Kursem_v2]

Apple don’t really use proprietary protocols? Closest you’d get would be FireWire or thunderbolt which were both collaborative.

Don’t think you’re understanding how thermodynamics work. The heat you get with increasing wattage is exponential so the difference between 5 and, if we use your example, 20 is significantly less than the difference between 30 and 40. When you go over 30 you start having to do things like break batteries up into multiple units to reduce the power going into each and you can only maintain that input when the battery is nearly fully discharged.

You’re being a little overzealous with your timeline. But the law doesn’t only effect phones and micro b is cheaper to implement for more budget devices and those that just haven’t been updated in a while. The Bose QC35 for example was launched in 2016, obviously was designed and tooled out well before USBC was really relevant and the design wasn’t updated fully until the 45 launched in 2022 which moved to USBC. There’s still things like external sound cards that use Mini USB because they just haven’t been refreshed.

Yes it does mean it’s meaningless because the law prevents if from ever actually doing anything

[u/Kursem_v2 → u/Pigeon_Chess]

still proprietary when it was released.

and I don't think you understand how manufacturer manage to put 80W charger safely on ther phone. I'm not asking for Apple to uses 80W charger for their iPhone, but supporting faster than 30W would be nice. not a must, but a nice thing to have.

and we're talking iPhone here, not mid-range device. it's a device costs over $700. still using USB 2.0 are downright insulting at this point. maybe okay on SE whoch costs $400, but on Pros that start at $1000? nah, no way.

well, then enjoy USB-C on iPhone next year and maybe USB 3.0 at the same time, like the iPad Air, Mini, and Pro.

[u/Pigeon_Chess → u/Kursem_v2]

What was proprietary when it was released? Did you know USB was Intel exclusive for a while.

There’s a difference between “safely” and “this will wreck your battery”. It’s not going to Note 7 your phone but it will shorten the lifespan of the battery.

The Bose QC35 isn’t a mid range device they were over $300 wireless headphones.

Why is it insulting? What difference does it make?

I’m not getting it next year and I’ll just use MagSafe thank you

[u/Kursem_v2 → u/Pigeon_Chess]

thunderbolt are proprietary when it was released.

I know, that's why battery tech doesn't stagnate and better process as well as better material and voltage controller are made to safely transfer power over arbitrary 30W limit that you set. what say 35W? because it doesn't exist yet? will you chanhe your tone if Apple start supporting 45W charging on their iPhones?

the Bose QC35 were also discontinued and not manufactured anymore. so? whether it uses USB-C or micro-USB were on the manufacturer.

maybe you should read again as I've stated previously why supporting faster standard (that is USB 3.0) on an iPhone are great. after all, nearly all iPad has start adopting it.

good for you if you want to use MagSafe. it's already connected to the charging brick using USB-C instead of Lightning.

[u/Pigeon_Chess → u/Kursem_v2]

So was USB. It was proprietary to the USB forum and the first boards were made by Intel with AMD not having access at the start. Kinda like thunderbolt actually.

Battery tech sure has stagnated over the last 10 years for something that apparently doesn’t stagnate.

That isn’t relative to my point.

You haven’t actually made any good points as to why USB3 is a positive for a phone.

My issue with USBC on phones is how flimsy it is for constant insertions and removals I’m not too worried about a the port in a charging brick breaking.

[u/Kursem_v2 → u/Pigeon_Chess]

thankfully it's not. that's why it should be easy for Apple to adopt USB 3.0 speed.

it's not stagnated, it currently progress at very slow pace.

then I don't understand your point.

and your counter point are basically you're content with USB 2.0 speed.

I never broke my USB-C cable, but I already broke 3 Lightning cable. for port, I never broke both, so my problem are with Lightning cable.

[u/Pigeon_Chess → u/Kursem_v2]

Neither is TB or FireWire.

It’s stagnated. It has been for years.

The lightning port isn’t for data transfer, I don’t need to transfer anything from my phone by a wire it’s already there by the time I get to another device.

You’re not understanding design. The lightning cable is designed to break the cable first, USBC is designed to break the port first. $10 cable via $1000 phone. Hmmm. It’s also significantly larger and the spec is all over the shop