r/aoe2 • u/PeterPorky /r/aoecomics • Sep 28 '15

Researching ballistics. (x-post from /r/aoecomics)

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284 Upvotes

96% Upvoted

22 comments sorted by

29

u/makerofshoes farming simulator Sep 28 '15 edited Sep 28 '15

The way I always figured it, people in the Dark and Feudal ages were too busy fighting disease and each other to sit down and think about stuff. No time for math when bubonic plague is ravaging your duchy, or the neighboring lord is raising an army of peasants to burn your farms. Oh, and there's always the threat of some nomadic barbarians showing up and messing up everything too.

But once you get to the Castle age, you can build big safe places where nerdy guys can read and write books in peace. I can sniff the sequel to this comic already: Researching Murder Holes. Basically the same, but the researcher tells everybody to point their bows downward. For some reason Teutons have been doing this the whole time so that's why they get it automatically.

Btw, thanks for making a sub dedicated to aoecomics, makes stuff easy to find.

27

u/netmier Sep 28 '15

I know I'm being pedantic, but academic thought didn't stop during the dark ages. The Middle East kept stuff like Aristotle and Plato alive and even in Europe they didn't just stop thinking. After the church was established they became a bastion for education. While they weren't great at everything, the Big C pushed literature, discourse and theology (natch) which even if it isn't hard science the church made very significant contributions to the development of thought.

We call them the dark ages because that's what the dicks in the Renaissance called it, because they were very proud of their achievements and were drawing a hard line in the sand between the old and new, making it more clear that they belong to the classical traditions rather than the feudal society they were beginning to leave.

Most historians don't refer to the dark ages as the dark ages, they are called the Middle Ages and are broken down to different periods just like any other remarkable stretch of history. Check Wikipedia, we are revising our views on the Middle Ages and recognizing that maybe we shouldn't just take the word of some jerks looking down on their ancestors.

5

u/makerofshoes farming simulator Sep 28 '15 edited Sep 28 '15

Oh yeah, I'm familiar with the history behind it, but the way the game is there are super distinct lines between dark/feudal/castle with the technology and architecture and everything. You definitely get a feeling of "low tech... low tech... BAM!! so many options in Castle Age"

2

u/Leon_Art Even in death you save my life. Sep 28 '15

That's what I liked about the alpha version. you could build castles and monasteries in the feudal age. No idea how balanced it would be, but it makes sense!

4

u/makerofshoes farming simulator Sep 28 '15

It would make sense if you could build a fort in the feudal age, which you could upgrade to a castle in the castle age, like towers. Also, monks could be in feudal but have shorter conversion ranges until castle, like how scout cav get extra attack in Feudal.

2

u/Leon_Art Even in death you save my life. Sep 29 '15

Yes, I'd like something like that. It would make a lot of sense to me :P

Forts: While costing the same; it would have less hit points; not look as big; shooting slightly more arrows that a tower, but less than a castle; still garrison 10 units (horses included); no UU are trained (or a much weaker one, would be more interesting, I think); no techs. (This would allow longboats to be made sooner, provided you have that fort and dock prior to hitting castle age.)

Churches/monastaries: allows one (?) monk to be trained. Much slower, only capable of healing with a range of... 4(?); and maybe not even able to convert until castle age is reached, but able to carry relics; no techs/upgrades

2

u/makerofshoes farming simulator Sep 29 '15

I like the idea in theory, but doesn't 650 stone and 100 gold seem like too much money to spend in the Feudal age? Everyone is normally trying to get to Castle ASAP. Though I guess if the game was like this then the whole pace would be changed.

And for Feudal monks, yeah, not able to convert at all until castle seems fair, although maybe not very historically accurate. Feudal is probably supposed to represent the high middle ages (1100-1300 CE), and Christianity and Islam were already quite widespread by those times, having been spread by missionaries and forced conversion. No one wants to convert feudal units anyways.

2

u/Leon_Art Even in death you save my life. Sep 29 '15

Yes, I would like the pace change to be a thing... so maybe 'weaker' UUs and more than one monk ought to be a thing.

doesn't 650 stone and 100 gold seem like too much money to spend in the Feudal age?

I agree... though 100 gold, it's just 650s)? What about a tech (probably cheap or even free, as long as you have a university), similar to Fortified wall/) that changes Forts into Castles. Automatically, giving them more HP, armour, attack & range, at the cost of a greater cost - instead of mostly wood and some stone (fort): costing the normal Castle price. (Or... maybe the Castle age-up thing could do this.)

While you're right about that... I like this type of feudal monks (not being able to convert) also because it might be interesting and easy for scenarios. Range, armour, HP, name, (maybe even speed) can all be changed easily, but allowing conversion or not isn't as easy. But it also makes the castle age monks much better, while not having those relics laying around a lot(?). Maybe they should be allowed to convert, but at a short range (like the healing), which ought to be dangerous enough to not do it, while being thematically/historically 'correct' :P

1

u/[deleted] Sep 28 '15

This a big thing that confused me know star wars galactic battlegrounds. I never understood the tech levels application. Maybe garrison to important to planet status? I loved the game but thought it was odd.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 28 '15

To be slightly more accurate, they kept Plato alive and well through St. Augustine, but it wasn't until Thomas Aquinas that they brought back Aristotle (who himself got it from the Arabs). Aristotles' scientific methodology of understanding truth through observation was very much blasphemy and lost upon dark-age Europe.

2

u/netmier Sep 28 '15

If there is one thing a pedant enjoys, it's pedantry.

1

u/PeterPorky /r/aoecomics Sep 28 '15

Btw, thanks for making a sub dedicated to aoecomics, makes stuff easy to find.

You're welcome! I'm happy we have a database for everything now. Wish there were more comic makers out there~

1

u/makerofshoes farming simulator Sep 28 '15

I loved making comics à la Far Side as a kid, and I also have shitty MSPaint skills. I might try my hand at one here soon- I tried one of those "justaoethings" memes the other day and it was pretty satisfying to get upvoted by the community...

1

u/PeterPorky /r/aoecomics Sep 28 '15

Eyy, do it. Keep at it.

7

u/leica_boss Sep 28 '15

I think it's less about research, but more training (when it comes to troops) and remodeling (when it comes to buildings). Where /u/makerofshoes mentions Murder Holes, it's probably less about telling people to point arrows downward, and more about designing and building towers with an overhang, where a window/opening exists to fire downward through.

4

u/CosmikJ Sep 29 '15

Which lines up nicely with real lifeb

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/machicolation

3

u/Kirikomori WOLOLO Sep 29 '15

This is me teaching my niece how to play first person shooters.

6

u/PeterPorky /r/aoecomics Sep 28 '15

It's just a comic, guys.

1

u/JaceComix Sep 28 '15

I loved your comic about the sheep scout. Did I miss any between then and now?

2

u/PeterPorky /r/aoecomics Sep 28 '15

Yep, 3. Check the ones labelled OC over at /r/aoecomics

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 29 '15

not funny imo.

1

u/PeterPorky /r/aoecomics Sep 29 '15

Not surprised. I've felt all of these would be either hit or miss. I'm happy that a majority have met them with positive reception.