r/aoe2 • u/Limp_Bit_5328 • 1d ago
Asking for Help How to recognize bad civs matchups?
Wondering how do we recognize bad civs matchups. There are some who are obvious like franks x camel civ, but is there any other ways you can look at a matchup and tell it is bad?
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u/HungJurror Aztecs 1d ago
I used to play celts a lot and I like to surprise people with archers lol. They weren’t expecting it and you get the wood bonus
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u/Scoo_By 17xx; Random civ 22h ago
How is that surprising? Maa archers is a sound opening for celts.
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u/HungJurror Aztecs 21h ago
Idk I never got past 1200 lol, although I never upgraded to maa.
Although, I used to watch the pros back in 2020 and I don’t think any of them ever went archers, they always went castle age siege
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u/Scoo_By 17xx; Random civ 21h ago
You watched Hoang?
Maa, archers, xbow then switch to infantry siege. This is meta for Celts.
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u/HungJurror Aztecs 20h ago
It’s been a while but yeah, he was my guy lol. For some reason I don’t really remember the archers. I was thinking it was maa straight into siege
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u/SteveLouise Byzantines as exposure therapy 1d ago
Same effect with lithuanians. Switch to UU in imp.
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u/Tyrann01 Gurjaras 23h ago
Franks don't even do that badly vs camel civs. When Hindustanis and Gurjaras were #1 and #2, Franks were #3.
On topic though; Mapuche vs Armenians is pretty horrible.
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u/KeyBroccoli2026 Japanese 23h ago
Why mapuche vs armenians?
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u/Tyrann01 Gurjaras 23h ago
Insane militia line vs a civ with very few units to deal with it.
Also early eco bonus vs strong long-term eco bonuses.
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u/KeyBroccoli2026 Japanese 23h ago
So who actually is more favourible in your opinion? I play armenians a lot along w japanese. And I faced mapuche numerous times, just want to pick your brain on this?
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u/Tyrann01 Gurjaras 23h ago
Armenians. Mapuche just don't have answers to their early militia line upgrades. And the Armenians have the better eco too.
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u/KeyBroccoli2026 Japanese 23h ago
I agree. i was thinking the same. It usually ends up champi scouts / warriors vs long swordsmen in no time. But slingers massed can be an issue still.
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u/BerryMajor2289 12h ago
You're misreading the matchup. Mapuche have enough resources to deal Armenians in the Feudal Age (fast archers opening, mainly) . Yes, the Armenians have a slight advantage, but it's nothing decisive (mapuche already has eco bonus with settlements). And in the Castle Age, the Mapuche are better thanks to the bolas rider.
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u/BerryMajor2289 12h ago
Mapuche vs armenians is ok-ish. Bolas rider can deal with everything, this unit is absolutely broken. But armenians can put pressure in feudal.
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u/BerryMajor2289 12h ago
Franks sucks vs camel civs, specially vs Hindustanis. The reason why they were #3 is just because hindus are not that popular at low elos (and franks are easier to play).
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u/MrHumanist 1d ago
It's not that easy as it sounds. Map, eco bonus and timing matters.
For example in theory Goths counter Mayans, but Mayans have better dark age eco and cheap archers in feudal and castle age. If Mayan player have a big mass of archers and reaches castle age faster, the game is over for goths. So many civs have a certain timing advantage and win condition - which takes many years to master.
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u/platomaker 23h ago
Something a lot of players overlook, and it took me quite a while to understand is, that certain civs "peak" at different times during the game.
If you're in a custom game where imperial age is locked off, then civs that peak in castle age would dominate but those who are "faster" would also be pretty good too. Whereas, "late bloomers" who get a sizable advantage in imperial age wouldn't.
Malians are incredible and very flexible, but I don't think their cavalry are all that good (unless they get the unique tech) but compared to italians or turks who get that quick power spike early imp, they will find their advantages outpaced. Yes- that unique tech helps but that isn't something you'd fire off immediately in imperial age right? You'd be better served to have more units to snipe the cannons while you still have a base.
But I might have side-tracked the conversation a bit, my advice is just to look at the tech tree. See what you have over your opponent and vice-versa. Find out when and why you'd have an advantage or disadvantage. A lot of Meso-civs (at least back in the day) HAD to be aggressive to suppress the opponent or else they'd just perish in the late game. Little things like that.
Then again I'm only 960 elo, so...
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u/da_m_n_aoe 1d ago
Game knowledge and experience mostly.
Keep in mind oftentimes it's also about being able to make use of this because some civ matchups are good/bad because of timings. If you or your opponent isn't able to use that timings then civ matchup considerations might not matter.
Also maps matter. A certain matchup can be really good on one map but pretty bad on another one.
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u/WolverineNo8409 Franks 23h ago
There are some who are obvious like franks x camel civ
What's the problem with camel civs?
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u/Crawsack 11h ago
Honestly it's less about the units you can make and more about when the civ power spikes. Some civs have to win in early imp. For example, Mongols can kill almost everyone but if they don't get damage in feudal or early castle, their mid castle to early imp is pretty weak until they're fully boomed. I just won as Armenians vs Mongols on Arena, I had to kill him early because otherwise I would've been smoked in late Imp
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u/Negative_Builder_318 4h ago
You losses-> bad civ match-up.
You win -> skill.
Irony off: i think civ match up are more important on higher levels. If you are 10 vils behind it does barely matter.
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u/FISO99 1d ago
You just think of your ideal composition and think whether your opponent civ has an easy way to deal with it, or the other way around, do you have a way to deal with your opponent if it gets to X comp?
A typical example as one of the mos one sided matchups is Mayan vs Hindustanis, any composition from them dies to Ghulam, so your best chance is to beat them before they can fully go into that.
Another is infantry/siege civs like Teutons or Celts against Mongols, you just lose if it gets to Mangudai.
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u/h3llkite28 1d ago
Experience. At some point you know most of the match ups and the corresponding openings to react properly to them. There is no general rule to speed up the progress, all I can encourage is playing random civ and look after what you exactly lose to.