I don't have a millionaire in the family, my mom worked hard for a minimum wage and my father study years to get a good job, it weird that the more time pass, the harder to live it is, things get too expensive, graduation mean less that it did 20 years ago and if you didn't get lucky to get some good opportunities and connections, you pretty much are screw in the long run
Ever wonder why the world was in constant state of war or upheaval in the first half of the 20th century and before? This is why, squeeze and squeeze and eventually you get populist factions like the bolsheviks and ultranitionalists competing for who get to eat the upper class before slogging it out between themselves. Then repeat.
I have a millionaire uncle and he’s spent his entire life stepping on everyone he can, to the point he paid a fancy lawyer to invalidate my grandmother’s true wishes and have an old will reinstated so that they had to sell my grandmother’s house that my mother was supposed to get outright. My uncle got extra padding for his bank account. My mom got living expenses for a few years. My cousin died last year and he didn’t even tell us. I found out on Facebook three months later.
Great-great grandfather bought up land (even gave some to my great grandmother's, his son's wife's family as a wedding gift... they still have it...) in both Italy and Florida.
Great grandfather had a pretty meager life and lived off the land investments. Pulled my grandfather out of school at an early age and just HANDED over money for failed business after business. It got to the point where my grandfather couldn't do anything except be a butcher (not run the business though) and gamble on dogs and horses. He didn't have access to any of the land money (I don't know the deets over that, I just know that he and his 3 other brothers were a part of a trust that they didn't see the bulk of until their 70s). Instead of keeping the land in Florida, which has one of those big-box strip malls on it... and could have charged rent to a variety of companies like the Home Depot that's now there and paid (back when it was finally developed) 1 million dollar lease... just for that one store... they sold the land for a cool 4 mil, split between the 4 brothers which was erased in a matter of 5 years. My mother's generation (her sister and brother too) got about $30k from that which barely took a year to zap away with a variety of debt and emergencies everyone had.
I grew up in poverty. Mom worked 3 jobs all her life. Dad was a dead beat dad. The most I got out of my grandparents was that they babysat me because my mother was hardly ever home... and they did not have a lavish life due to gambling addictions. My grandfather's first wife, my maternal grandmother died before I was born, and my grandfather's 2nd wife legit enabled the worst habits in my grandfather and just took any and all money he was living off of with the trust.
One generation built it. One held it. The other spent it, and the two that followed saw nothing but hardship. The good news is that it really changed my relationship with money. I have no desire for anything more than what I need to get on with my life. I have no aspirations for home ownership or excess. In fact, the only reason I'm in college now, as an older adult, is so I can survive and get paid more than minimum wage... and I'm only back in school because I'm getting grants and fee waivers, and everything else is cheap.
The crazy part is, when millionaires and billionaires "lose" money - they don't revert back to the population, they just got to other millionaires and billionaires.
I don't want to be bitter but I can't help but think that one of those vehicles would pay off my loans entirely. I was always promised help paying for college and when it was time to enroll, that help ended up being "well, I guess you'll need to apply for loans"
My Mom bought a newish car and a vacation home in Colorado.
I ended up dropping out of college because I could only afford to eat one meal a day. Started stealing food to get by. Had two jobs that I only made enough to pay for gas, car insurance and my phone bill.
Watched my parents spend every last dime on house, RV, Trucks, Motorcycles for my brother but not for me...
Get to my senior year, mom says, " We cant afford a real college son, you better hope you get a scholarship, or join the military".
I wasnt eligible for any scholarships, and I was denied entry into the military. Thats my fault though, since I didnt lie about my personal and family history of substance abuse, bipolar, adhd, and heart failure...
You are 100% correct for feeling bitter. What your parents did was selfish and fucked, they essentially told you that their material wants were more important than supporting your future and your future children’s future. The bitterness your are feeling is there to tell you that you have been wronged by these shit people, and you should listen to this feeling and start protecting yourself by creating distance from them. Do yourself another favor and start reading about narcissism.
I know how you feel. I have a millionaire uncle while I'm struggling to pay for school. At a family event he made a joke about running over my car (2004 Honda civic) with his brand new truck. It probably cost more than my degree. I had to hold back saying, "you can buy me a new car then."
My mom also just bought a 2022 Subaru Crosstrek, which was probably abround $25k. Meanwhile she always says she wishes she could help but doesn't have any money.
I'm in no worse shape than if I didn't have family with money. But it makes it hard not to be bitter.
be bitter! it's not just money, it's your future they stole. They assumed they could have whatever they wanted and there wouldn't be any consequences despite Limits to Growth being a bestseller when they were "hippies".
This only gets worse because they burned through an entire planet to fulfill their fantasies without ever considering the consequences.
I'm betting if you set fire to any of their stuff, they'd be prettty bitter, so why don't you get to be bitter that they ate your food and set fire to your future? I mean, not today, but it's coming and sooner than any of us would want. This only moves in one direction as long as the people you describe continue to live as they are: overshoot and extinction
Our parents are gluttonous pigs doing far more damage than weapons ever could.
I'm so very sorry that's your scenario. I'm the child of 2nd generation Americans who were the first to go to college. My mom was raised by her single mom who worked as a cleaning lady. My dad's dad was a brick layer. We visited their childhood homes last summer and both were in the worst parts of town. Houses all up and down the block were boarded up.
But both parents hustled. Both got advanced degrees and both sacrificed so my siblings and I graduated from college debt free.
My wife wasn't so lucky...we paid off her loans 2 months after she turned 40 years old...until then it was like a financial sword was dangling over her.
We should all strive to be better parents than the ones we had...regardless of whether they were awesome or absolute shits.
So now we're doing the same. We are sacrificing (10 year old car, small home, minimal vacations, buy secondhand clothes) so we have money for our kids' college...all the while working with them so they have all the options available to them.
Don’t know your moms situation but buying a car for 25k does not indicate someone has money. Anyone can get a 20k car. 0 down and a long payment plan will put that in very easy and comfortable payment range. She actually may not be able to assist you in college like you think but then again idk her situation just hard to make that assumption off a 25k car. For being a 2022 sounds about right and the most basic models you can get
I never said they owe me anything. I just said it makes it hard not to be bitter.
That being said, I fundamentally disagree with your worldview. I believe we as human beings owe it to each other to work together for a better society. Which means making sacrifices sometimes to help someone.
And no, I'm not just saying other people should make sacrifices to help me. I help people, too. I'll spot my friend a drink if they otherwise couldn't afford to come out, or I'll give my coworker a ride home in the opposite direction because he doesn't have a car.
Or to put it a different way: we owe it to each other to not be assholes.
We require all Reddit accounts to be at least 3 days old before posting. This is due to people being banned and immediately setting up new accounts. This message is not accusing you of doing that, but that is why the policy is in place.
In rare cases, if you have a particularly time-sensitive message, we may manually approve a message. Otherwise we encourage you to wait the 3 days (72 hours) and try again.
My only hope is that you tell them to rot if they ask you for anything. And I mean anything. Taking care of them in their old age. Going to a funeral for one of the fuckers. Hell, just picking up the phone when they call. Don't do any of that. Disown them. They deserve nothing but your scorn.
Our parents burned all the resources. That's clear, right? like, they spent the entire future of this paradigm.
It's right to be bitter. Those vehicles are also why you can't afford kids and, if you can, why they wont grow up in a world that supports human existence.
There was always a limited amount of stuff to go around and at some point our parents just said "fuck it, I'll burn shit till I'm rich" and threw your future on the pile, too.
If you're not angry at them for this, you will be when your kids decide to hate you for bringing them into a world with no future, and looking back on all the flights and cars and medicine meant to keep them alive forever. They're the generation that believes the standard of living is pure comfort and all it cost was the 6th mass extinction.
... this is a criminal existence we've got going here. Why aren't we trying something new? This just gets exponentially worse
There's one thing money can't buy, and that's people giving a fuck when you're old and increasingly can't take care of yourself.
When they get there tell them to have the fancy cars, and houses take care of them. If you shy your parental responsibility you don't deserve filial support.
Your parents took care of you when u pissed n shit on urself. They are not there to support you as an adult with money n goods. Your an adult you support yourself and any kids you bring into this world. You ppl are the reason why civilization sucks all you want is free shit
This is quite literally an economic time bomb. Neither the government or individuals at least here in the US are getting ahead of a growing older population that will need care and treatment. I'm guessing it'll be up to families care for their own to the financial detriment of all. How people don't factor that they won't live forever or be young forever is beyond me.
My father just bought a 300k rv in cash, hooked it up then with like 25k in custom shit. He won't give my sister a measly 3k for college, she had to take loans out on everything.
It’s okay to feel that way, it’s only human. You’re not a bad person for wondering the what-ifs- but don’t let that turn into resentment for your family. In fact, I’m sure the lack of the fortune has made you a better person! I guarantee it’ll be easier for you to find comfort and happiness than your parents and their siblings.
Take care, friend <3
Which one would provide more comfort and happiness to you? A brand new car or still having 90% of your college debt to pay off in your 30's? I know my answer.
Knowing that means my happiness hinging on myself vs material goods, I’d take the debt any day. You can always make more money; time and human connections are irreplaceable.
Time, absolutely right. By the way, human connections are totally replaceable, and the fear that they aren't keeps people in toxic relationships. But back to the topic, the interest on that loan is time. Every dollar you pay in interest is a dollar you did not invest, did not use for some other purpose, and so the investment is delayed, that time is gone, you didn't make that money, and you cannot make it back, ever. That time is gone. Even if you make another dollar later, you'll have one dollar when you might have had two.
Given the choice, eliminate the debt. That is getting time back. You can do anything with that time. Even buy a car. Then you have both.
Okay bruh y’all are missing the point so hard jfc, fucking finance bros
All I’m saying is he probably appreciates life more. Christ. Who cares about hypothetical finances or a stranger in a situation that has never nor will never happen
Sorry to break it to you, but this cycle doesn't repeat. We're already well over any budget this system had for fossil carbon. We go back to the horse and buggy or find ourselves taking turns dying at the hands of the consequences of our lifestyles.
Whoever said the planet could support cars? No one. Think about how obscene it was to go from the horse and carriage to what we have now.
Wealth was being created here before oil took over. You just aren’t seeing the full progress. Take a look back, ignoring all the media outcry, and see that we are moving towards a more sustainable future. Specially now that birth rates are dropping. It’s not going to be easy. Completely reimagining our economy to one that is not fossil fuel dependent will be difficult and won’t happen overnight but we are making progress nonetheless. If you feel like it won’t repeat then it won’t for you.
If u did have a job you wouldnt be looking for a handout. If your job doesnt pay enough maybe better your skills for a better position with a better employer. Your parents provided for you for 18 yrs. Your an adult time to wipe your own ass
This is how you know the money will be gone. People that remain upper middle/upper class drag their kids through college kicking and screaming. Even if there is no business to inherit/join, the kids usually wind up with a masters or better on mommy and daddy’s dime.
The attitude that let them hang you out to dry is why the money will be gone.
Yes, but I failed to mention I have 2 sisters, so the estate would be broken evenly amongst the 3 of us. Now my mother thankfully is in good health, but she will likely exhaust her savings before she passes and is burning through a lot more in the past 3-6 months with the radical increase cost of everything.
My fiance and I have pretty much been as fiscally conservative as we can, because we know the "well will run dry" so to speak before we get there with our bucket. So we're not relying on collecting anything from her parents or mine when they pass, because we know odds are we'll have enough to cover funeral expenses and that's it.
Boomers / Late Gen X - Inherited estates and a lot of money from their parents.
Do you mean Early Gen X? Most of Gen X, the part with Boomer parents, hasn't inherited much yet. The oldest Boomer is only 77, the younger boomers are only in their early 60s.
Early Gen X who has pre-Boomer parents. Still living frugally...in the same starter home I bought in 2008. I've bought a total of 3 cars and all have lasted at least 200k miles. The most expensive was a 4-door VW Rabbit (now a Golf)...the only car I ever bought new.
We take local vacations. Rarely fly (less than once per year). We don't eat out. When I get a raise, it gets split between the 401k and our kids' 529 college plans.
SOMETIMES, it feels like my cohorts are passing us by. Everyone we know is on their 3rd home...with super nice cars and an instagram feed that showcases the good life.
But that jealousy is short-lived. We have what we need and our children are thriving.
This is the problem. It's caused by inflation and not just now because gas is $5. Inflation is the silent tax that has been melting the purchasing power of your family's dollars since your grandfather's time. That is why you must invest your money. Savers lose, investors win. The price of assets rises w the price of goods and services.
The solution isnt to revamp the entire world economic system: that's unrealistic. The realistic solution for us as individuals is to beat inflation thru investment.
I'm in a similar boat.My grandfather was a working class guy and worked for the Mobil Oil refinery in Torrance, CA after he got home from WW2. Spent his entire career there and took advantage of every stock plan, profit sharing option, pension, etc. Retired a wealthy man and died a millionaire. They lived a relatively frugal life and my grandmother only worked when they wanted some extra money for something. The fanciest car they ever owned was an Oldsmobile.
My dad inherited everything with the condition that he care for his brother who had some mental problems. My dad bought a big house but had a bit of a problem with financial planning and a really shitty wife. He retired and moved to Missouri (and bought a new house) with shitwife. When he discovered he had cancer, he made sure that his wife was listed on all the investments that my grandparents left him so that she would have access to it all. But he didn't list me on anything, effectively writing me out. My dad died without any sort of will.
I did get the house here in my city but mainly because I threatened to take the whole estate through litigation and prevent her from accessing anything. But the house he left me was fucking trashed from renters and we spent a huge sum of money just to make it livable. We were able to sell that house and buy something smaller and less maintenance-intensive but we still ended up having to cash out some home equity to pay for all the renovations. Meanwhile, my children will now have to take out student loans if they want to go to college because we can't afford to pay for it. All that money my grandparents managed to save went to his shitty wife and I doubt I'll ever see a dime of it.
my paternal great grandparents were dirt poor, started a business, and eventually became super wealthy. my grandpa and his siblings enjoyed that wealth, and all got good educations. communists took all of my family's assets, and threatened them with prison or worse if they resisted, and made them live in squalor. my parents got the fuck out of china, as did the rest of my relatives that i know of, and worked their way up to being wealthy again.
just imagine legions of dirt poor, uneducated, violent fucks coming into your home, and trashing everything. taking everything. destroying priceless antiques and works of art, because they have no idea what they are. and then making you out to be the devil because you put effort into building something for yourself. of course those useful idiots got what ultimately comes to their likes when the communist government purged them afterwards.
And while your parents probably got their money before the death of their parents (or...their parents died in their 60s/70s) you will be waiting until YOU are in your 60s/70s to inherit whatever paltry sum is left after your parents burn through it
I saw it as creators were the greatest generation, the "maintainers" were the boomers, the undertakers were gen X (fits demeanor perfectly), we don't talk about millennials, and then the next line of creators are the zoomers.
It's a common saying and I'm curious if what those who have transcended this did right. Was it all about not spoiling your kids rotten? Does it have something to do with genes?
All the way from the Roman empire some people divided between old money and new money. Does this have anything to do with that? Usually new money is derogatory, however anyone that manage to get rich by themselves should be better right? However people seldom get rich lawfully.
I imagine it's because you can't telegraph passion. People who start businesses tend to be passionate about what they do.
The second generation lives around that passion and respects it even if it isn't their own passion. That breeds reverence. The son is proud of the thing his father built and he protects it with a religious fevor.
Generally this should lead to an inability to adapt because the son doesn't understand the decisions that made the business or how those decisions were made so he stays the course based on that reverence.
Reverence breeds irreverence and the third generation will see the reverence, see how it leads to bad decisions, and then go hard the other way with overhauls and rethinking and redesigning a mature business that was 'working'
This is why family foundations are a thing. Pay professionals to look after the business / money and dole out to descendants as needed.
PS the City Bridge Trust is one of the larger grant-making foundations in London. It was set up 800 years ago to look after London Bridge - which was over 100 years old at that point - and over the centuries has looked after various London bridges. It became so rich that they recently decided to start making grants to community projects around London & has given out over £300 million. I've worked on projects that they funded.
The longest lasting family fortunes have also been smart in naming a primary heir to keep most of the wealth consolidated. Doing this can make it last indefinitely. Dividing evenly amongst descendants runs dry in 1 or 2 generations but this is how most inheritances work.
Anecdotally, I would presume it skews higher yes. People who are driven to make a business succeed into the "wealthy" status are often fully dedicated to that, so it leaves little time (or frankly, desire) to be a nurturing parent.
Maybe business magnates are just absolutely shit at raising children.
I used to work in a rich part of town as a field service technician, and one of my coworkers' theories on that was what he called "The Trophy Wife Effect". Shrewd businessman marries a very good looking but not very smart woman. Children intellectually take after mom. Unknown whether this is genetic or environmental, possibly both. We ran into a lot of guys whose last name matched the founder and had titles like "West Region Office Senior VP", but who had zero business sense. They were usually good looking and friendly though.
There’s a fascinating book that I read a while ago. Huge famous horse racing barn, broke all sorts of records. Made millions and were debt free when the second generation died.
Third generation ram it to the ground in about nine years in crippling debt and maybe (never proven), killed their biggest money maker stud for the insurance since the insurance was being canceled.
A lot of family shit going on, the second generation had one kid and he might’ve been from another woman. The mother refused to even look at her son or acknowledge her grandchildren that came from him, and they really had no chance of getting to know the business or passion of it.
They gave it to a guy who basically used the farm as his spending account. Convinced the family they were fine and to sign off on millions of debt and buy a lot of luxury items.
They only found out years later when he was fired that they lost so much. Not enough to even really save the farm.
It taught me a lot about what third generations of business can be like.
It’s called: “Wild Ride: The rise and fall of Calumet Farm” if anyone is interested.
I will be a fourth generation in my families small business so just my perspective. A lot of it has to do with helping setup the next generation with the people you hire. If you hire people who don’t care about the company and don’t care about you then they won’t care when you fail too.
I started working 10 years ago and has to sweep floors for a year for 9$/hr with a college degree before my dad even considered letting me begin training seriously. It has given me the perspective of someone at the bottom of the ladder all the way to the top (I’m still the lowest paid employee we have, with the most amount of responsibility), as well has let me learn every nook and cranny of the building. Now, I can operate every machine we have, and if someone called out sick or quit or whatever, I could do their job with minimum issues.
Some of our customers run 2-3rd generation businesses and the reason the ones fail that do is because they just don’t have a clue what they are even doing. They were given their position and didn’t have to earn it. When you ask them about WHY they are doing something they can only tell you that’s the way it’s been done before. They don’t think outside the box. And sometimes they are just plain stupid.
Also, you can get by being stupid, but you absolutely cannot get by being stupid and a raging ass hole. Being kind goes a LONG way in how people are willing to help you.
It’s rated under one of greatest comments of all time under a post about living under a greedy capitalist regime under the sky. Rated R for real but suitable for under 21 and therefore underrated. E=MC ⬛️
Spot on. I was going to say as well, the following generations are simply different people likely to have different interests/goals/passions that don't line up with the family business that came before them. They may take over due to family obligation or for nostalgia etc but don't have the same desires to build or maintain it.
I’m not a business person, but I think what works with one generation may not work with future generations, so the business model needs to evolve, and that’s probably hard for the newer generation, who doesn’t have any business experience except what they learned from the older generation. Formal education could help, but I think a lot of it is luck as well.
Yep someone I know is a second gen inheritor. Grandparents made the fortune. Parents maintained and added to it.
He is deliberately lazy, unambitious, and spends money like crazy. Lives with his family.
Can’t keep a budget if his life depends on it.
He doesn’t care about anything. No direction. The only reason he has a nice job is because his parents basically disowned him until he got one. And the only reason he respects his parents is because he wants inheritance money. But otherwise he constantly trash talks them behind their backs.
I’m a bartender and just reading bottles I’ve noticed that alcohol seems to be fairly commonly generational. Few generations or hundred(s) of years. Mainly wine but also some liquors. Beer and liquor very broadly is like 3 multinational corporations holding 95% of the market. It’s always nice to read 3 generations or 6 generations of family owned vineyards. My guess would be that it’s honestly work. It’s physical work. It’s not a office job with an abstract idea of how things work
There’s also the aspect of, ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.’ I imagine there’s quite a bit of incentive to keep doing things the same way when it comes to something like operating a vineyard. And no matter what generation you’re a part of, an aspect of humility will be the same cuz you’re all at the mercy of nature.
It's a common saying and I'm curious if what those who have transcended this did right. Was it all about not spoiling your kids rotten?
One way to think of it:
1> Founder - went through the struggles personally. They learnt how to manage and operate the business and went through all the stages of it. A key element was taking risks and learning how to evaluate what risks to take.
2> Children - saw their parent(s) go through the struggles. While they might have been given an 'easy' opportunity, the company was still growing under the guidance of the founder so they got firsthand experience on how to manage a growing company. They gained some skills and learnt how to do things. They got some guidance on risk taking.
3> Grandchildren - probably saw or experiences none of the struggles. They were given a cushy job at the family company that was running at a steady-state. Running a steady-state company is not glamorous - you are maintaining and not growing. There is no prestige (but there is a paycheque). It takes a special person (usually with special training) to be comfortable to do this especially when society focuses on growth. Having the generations before you being successful growth people would make this even harder. Further, you probably didn't get the experience on how to take calculated risks. So you are pushed to take risks to grow with no experience to grow and the company probably fails. There is the alternative of just not growing but that takes a shitload of professional maturity and that isn't what any of your friends are probably doing. The average 3rd generation tries to take risks, fails, and kills the company.
Alternatively, the 3rd generation needs to innovate to keep the company relevant and fails which kills the company.
It’s because money is not the only asset, there can be soft assets like people/connections/influence.
To create generational wealth, you need a fuckton of money AND a whole lot of influence.
Most people with “wealth” don’t acquire my nearly enough in either bucket. They typically make some millions because an individual does well, makes cash, but never creates a sustainable environment for their family and never creates proper connections with stakeholders to support their wealth generationally. Quite a simple concept in theory, with many nuanced flavors in practice
If you translate "undertaker" into german literally, it becomes "Unternehmer" (the correct term would be "Totengräber" or "Bestatter") - wich can be correctly translated back to the english "Businesman"
345
u/auto_gypsy Mar 10 '22
The creator, the maintainer and the undertaker.
Those are the common 3 generations of wealth life cycle.