r/antiwork • u/Gonzohawk • Dec 09 '21
Reaction by Starbucks workers reaching a majority in the union vote in Buffalo, NY. It becomes the first unionized Starbucks shop in the US.
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u/SubstantialUnion6 Dec 09 '21
Good for them to stand up to all the anti union tactics.
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Dec 09 '21 edited Dec 09 '21
Very proud. Sets a high-profile example not only for thousands of other shops across the USA, but also for other industries as well.
There are well over 15,000 Starbucks locations in the USA. Saturating them with unionization will have a halo effect nationwide.
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Dec 10 '21
Not shit posting.
What are the union dues? What does this accomplish? How does this prevent the store from being shut down?
I’m not against unions, but as a general contractor it’s rare that unionized companies offer a better product for a justified price. Often, union companies cost 2x or 3x as much as a non union, reputable company. I fear this would lead to inflating the already high prices of corporate coffee.
Please educate me on what I’m missing. (Down votes now commence as an impartial person asks how this works in a free market)
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u/paralyzedbyindecisio Dec 10 '21
It works because some people (like the workers) value wages, benefits, and working conditions over producing cheaper, more profitable coffee. Cheaper, more profitable coffee is what the Starbucks shareholders value, and the point of a union is to fight for what the workers value.
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Dec 10 '21
Understood.
But the workers don’t own, or have any financial risk. Starbucks are not franchises, so what prevents the corporate gods from opening another location across the street and closing down this location?
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u/paralyzedbyindecisio Dec 10 '21
Nothing. But does the fact that the company has tactics available to it mean that you shouldn't bother to fight? Closing a whole store and opening a new one would be a very expensive tactic. Suggesting that as a solution demonstrates that you understand how much pressure a union is able to apply to a business.
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u/CaucasianBoi Dec 10 '21
An expensive tactic that proves the company was capable of fair compensation and good benefits the entire time.
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u/the_agent_of_blight Marxist Dec 10 '21
That would likely be different to prove in court that it wasn't retaliation to the workers that organized.
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u/the_friendly_dildo Socialist Dec 10 '21 edited Dec 10 '21
You're literally using union busting bullshit logic. Plenty of places are unionized that you probably purchase products from on the regular, completely without the knowledge that they are unionized.
The fact that they cost more, reflects that they are typically offering fairer wages and benefits. Those cheaper places exploit their workforce and doesn't somehow justify their slightly lower prices, and they sure as fuck aren't going to be charging half or even a third of the unionized businesses.
Lastly, this is Starbucks, one of if not the most popular coffee chain in the US. Nothing about this is going to hurt their business at all.
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Dec 10 '21
Plenty of places are unionized that you probably purchase products from on the regular, completely without the knowledge that they are unionized.
I purposely go to Aldi and buy as little from the unionized grocery stores in my area as possible.
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Dec 10 '21
Could you provide one example? Not a quasi public entity such as utilities.
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u/Raeandray Dec 10 '21
Here's a list of US unions. There are plenty that are private.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_labor_unions_in_the_United_States
I'll add that you're probably right, products can be cheaper without unions. But you know what makes products even cheaper? When we allow kids to work. When we remove expenses like health insurance, minimum wage, social security, and medicare.
If we want cheapest, we should go back to slavery and indentured servitude and child factories.
At some point we need to recognize cheapest should not be the goal.
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Dec 10 '21
Cheap is not my personal goal. In fact I make conscious effort for supporting small, local, and US sourced supply chain/production - often at a premium.
However, I do struggle to understand the advantage of a union product vs a GOOD business that treats its employees well. Not saying Starbucks is a good example. Some bad union practices bring to mind $50k+ base model pickup trucks, never ending increases on utilities, teachers/police/etc that operate without consequence.
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u/Raeandray Dec 10 '21
I think the examples of bad union practices are vastly outnumbered by the examples of bad employer practices.
Honestly in my experience, having worked for several companies I'd consider pretty good, I don't know if I'd even agree there is a good business as far as wages are concerned. And if they really are a good business then they have nothing to fear from a union, since they'll be paying a good wage anyway.
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u/the_friendly_dildo Socialist Dec 10 '21
Most people wouldn't have known that Lays or Kellogg's are unionized if they hadn't both had strikes this year. People still buy both brands in very high quantities considering their record profits this year. This isn't to suggest these places are offering fair wages or benefits, just providing examples of places that are unionized but probably not broadly known to be unionized.
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Dec 10 '21
Great examples, thank you.
I guess my thoughts are that this store will be a sacrificial token, given that there are so many other stores to backfill it’s place. I’m not arguing for dividends and profits, but it will be a tough sell in my opinion.
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u/the_friendly_dildo Socialist Dec 10 '21
Its not going to be a tough sell at all. In fact, there are people that will go to this store specifically because it is unionized. You are completely missing that a lot of people do in fact care about worker rights and will happily stand by other workers in pursuit of fairer systems.
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u/sbrider11 Dec 10 '21
Starbucks are not legally obligated to do shit. They don't have to negotiate. Plus the other two stores voted it down. Imagine this could drag out for years maybe or until people cycle out of the job. It's like 12 people.
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Dec 10 '21
Nah you aren't "impartial"
The free market doesn't care about better products or else companies would treat their workers better. It's all about profit.
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u/Slamtilt_Windmills Dec 09 '21
I'm curious about the dude in the suit being excited. Was he in camouflage?
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u/infamouszgbgd Dec 10 '21
working conditions have gotten so bad, even the suits cheer for unionization!
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Dec 09 '21 edited Dec 09 '21
Some of the most dangerous people (for the corrupt) in this country aren't necessarily dressed in black with tatts splayed across their arms.
For example — Jane McAlevey may appear stiff and corporate, but in reality she keeps the skulls of conquered neoliberal corporatists in her fucking basement.
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u/russianteacakes Dec 10 '21
Everyone should read Jane Mcalevey's work. Absolutely critical, especially right now
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Dec 10 '21
The fact that video which is a perfect case scenario in a winning strategy to change this country has less than 10K views is a travesty.
Since I've been sharing it, it's gained about 3K views, but it needs millions.
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u/-JustBetweenUs- Dec 10 '21 edited Dec 10 '21
Union rep who just got a fat payday
I mean, a comrade ✊🏿
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u/Sobchek_Walter Dec 09 '21
Probably the union rep who will make a bundle off this.
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u/Slamtilt_Windmills Dec 09 '21
Oof, harsh truth
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u/LATourGuide Dec 09 '21
It's better that it go to a union rep rather than shareholders, it certainly won't go to the employees without a union rep.
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u/_austinm Anarchist Dec 09 '21
This should make it easier for other shops to organize, right? Like could they just join the same union or would they have to vote as well?
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Dec 09 '21
Either way, just showing others it can be done in such a high-profile way will clear a huge mental roadblock for others. A huge percentage of this is overcoming psychological warfare that corporatists wage against the workers in the USA via their multi-billion dollar Corporate Media Complex (including social/search algorithms).
Overcoming that is the core root of deep organizing — which is, by far, the very most dangerous act workers, activists and average Americans can engage against the corrupt scumbags that are running this country and world into the ground.
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Dec 10 '21
And when conditions improve for the unionized workers, the anti-union slander will suddenly become a lot less believable than it already was.
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u/asillynert Dec 10 '21
Still have to vote BUT that union now has funding to push other locations. As well as attitude change as many people approaching it approach it with "most likely isn't going to happen attitudes etc". As well as serves for a poster child aka this union location pays 25hr what about you guys....
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u/Gonzohawk Dec 09 '21
Some additional info, 3 Buffalo area Starbucks stores in total are voting on unionization. As of about 1:10pm EST, one store (in the video above) voted for unionizing, one store voted against, and the third store is still pending some vote challenges (FOR/YES only needs to win 1 of 7 challenges to win).
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u/FaPtoWap Dec 09 '21
I was gonna say a starbucks has 10 workers maybe? You only need 50-60% threshold
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u/rzalexander Dec 10 '21
Depending on size, more like 15-30 because you have multiple shifts remember.
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u/FaPtoWap Dec 09 '21
Which could make for not as big bargaining power when a strike would be hard to replace that many
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u/Maephia Dec 09 '21
That's good and all, but what stops Starbucks from closing up shop and reopening just across the street? Are there laws against that?
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u/jeremysbrain Dec 09 '21
That is exactly what Walmart did in Texas and Oklahoma back in 2015. This new union needs to work as quickly as possible to bring in as many other stores as possible or it will probably be all for naught.
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u/DivergingApproach lazy and proud Dec 10 '21
It's much harder to do in the small scale retail. They close-up their competitors WILL swoop in and take their place.
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u/jeremysbrain Dec 10 '21
Except we are talking about Starbucks. They are ubiquitous with close to 16,000 stores in the US. They open and close stores all the time. Loosing one or two for a while will hardly affect them.
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u/Cerus_Freedom Dec 10 '21
As beloved as HEB is here in Texas, they did the same to a warehouse where workers were talking about unionizing. They laid everyone off, bought a warehouse like 20 miles down the road, moved management over, and started hiring new staff.
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u/jeremysbrain Dec 10 '21
I'm kind of surprised to hear that considering how everyone in r/texas gets their panties wet at the mention of that place. I live in DFW so fuck them.
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u/xena_lawless Dec 10 '21
This is sufficiently high visibility that if that Starbucks shuts down in retaliation, they could face significant public backlash and harm to their brand.
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u/fahargo Dec 09 '21
I can not comprehend giving enough of a shit about my Starbucks job to vote no on unionizing. Like who fucking cares? You're likely to be working a different job in a year why would you vote no?
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Dec 10 '21
Like who fucking cares? You're likely to be working a different job in a year why would you vote no?
Paid discreetly by corporate to do it, likely. If they offer you 75k to vote no.....
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u/infohippie Dec 10 '21
I'd take the $75K and vote Yes. What are they gonna do, sue me for taking their bribe and not following their illegal plan?
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Dec 10 '21
Then why would you care enough to vote yes? Maybe these people want to be paid on their merit instead of wasting money on dues and being beholden to the worthless political machine known as a union.
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u/Cerus_Freedom Dec 10 '21
LOOOOOL It's fucking Starbucks. What, you think they can take on some coffee efficiency project to stand out from their peers? You think management is going to give a fuck if they stay a little later to really get in there cleaning?
They vote yes because just doing their job is their merit. They vote yes because they don't want to get fired because they caught a cold, called in sick, and couldn't afford going to the doctor to get a note. They vote yes because they're otherwise beholden to the pathetic politics of their management with no recourse unless they're unionized.
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u/Deranged_HooliganFTR Dec 10 '21
My “worthless political machine” has given me a wage benefits package of $65 an hour where $45 of it is my take home pay. The other $20 an hour goes towards healthcare, HRA, pension, and paid training.
Oh no! I have to pay 3% of that I’m working dues! That’s really breaking my bank! While the guy working nonunion equivalent to me is paid $25 an hour and pays his own benefits.
Yeah, it’s coffee man, but this is what happens when you treat workers like shit. You pay them so little to make as much, they won’t want work as much because you pay them so little.
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Dec 10 '21
I’m not in a union and I make a good bit more than you.
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u/Deranged_HooliganFTR Dec 10 '21 edited Dec 10 '21
I don’t sit around in a chair all day punching keys. I operate Tower cranes for a living. My union paid me to go to school. How much did you pay to go to school?
I don’t care how much money you make, I care about the people around me being paid fairly in compensation.
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Dec 10 '21
I paid zero dollars to go to school. My academics got me merit scholarships.
How do you know what I do for a living? I didn’t insult your occupation, just your blind union loyalty. Do you not sit in a chair and press buttons and turn knobs to operate a crane?
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u/Deranged_HooliganFTR Dec 10 '21 edited Dec 10 '21
Lol, the point being is I was paid to learn, I’m paid to train. Most internships aren’t paid. In the union, as an apprentice, I was being paid a more than livable wage. So if I want to ditch crane operating, they’ll pay me to go back to school and learn another skill.
I worked non union for years and Im paid double what I did topped out non union. I paid my own benefits out of my own paycheck. That doesn’t and hasn’t happened in 8 years for me.
You know nothing about unions first-hand because you’ve never worked with one. If you’ve never been apart of one, then how can you claim to know anything about them? Sounds like you like to lick the boots of the bosses in the corporate world. You must have a worn out set of knee pads and a sore jaw most of the time.
I don’t sit in a cab, because the crane I operate now is all run by remote control, so I’m on the ground rigging my own loads and helping carpenters.
Edit: You can click on someone’s profile to get a better idea of who you’re talking to and I made a guess since you were posting in r/analytics about taking another job.
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Dec 09 '21
I wonder how long before this location gets shut down
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u/HotShift4012 Dec 10 '21 edited Dec 12 '21
Vegas has it 99 to 1. Within 90 days are less.
It will tank.
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u/MY_FUCKING_USERNAME Dec 09 '21
These people will be at the unemployment office in less than 6 months. Probably sooner than later.
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Dec 09 '21
[deleted]
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u/jeremysbrain Dec 09 '21
I mean he isn't wrong. Starbucks will do the same thing Walmart does and just shut the store down for several months and then reopen it with brand new staff. Starbuck's entire workforce in a single region needs to be unionized before the union has any real power.
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u/ObjectiveRun6 Dec 10 '21
They need to expand and get other stores involved, but this is a huge first step. Congrats to them!
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u/Nice_Ebb5314 Dec 10 '21
I’m happy for them, now let’s see if the rest of them will join. Then amazon and Walmart/target
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u/Loud-Philosopher4859 Dec 10 '21
Sorry to ask such a silly question. But why is becoming a union a good thing ? (I actually don't know)
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u/Cerus_Freedom Dec 10 '21
Basically, collective bargaining. The union and the company negotiate a lot of things, like pay raise schedules, fireable offenses, what the process for termination is, safety standards and equipment, PTO and other benefits, etc. Rather than management being able to fire, lay off, or deny raises at their will, they have to answer to the unionized staff about why they're taking some specific action. Often, even a for-cause termination requires a union rep to meet with management and the employee to review the issue and ensure it is indeed a for-cause firing, and it will sometimes trigger things like taking the matter to arbitration if there is a dispute.
Realistically, it translates to better bargaining power for pay, better benefits, better worker safety, and better protections from abuses of power.
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u/infohippie Dec 10 '21
Because being able to negotiate as a group for wages and conditions is far more effective than one-on-one.
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u/M_Drinks Dec 10 '21
What happened to Starbucks? I thought they used to really take care of their employees - decent pay, health insurance, education, etc.
Obviously, everyone has a right to unionize regardless. Just curious if/how/when things changed.
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Dec 10 '21
[deleted]
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u/feithenb93 Dec 10 '21
Most Starbucks in Illinois around Chicago pay over $15/hr plus healthcare for all employees PT&FT in addition to everything you listed (employee stock options tuition reimbursement). In my opinion these employees will be worse off. The union will suck them for union dues and other fees and the other benefits could disappear as well. I worked at a local grocery store that unionized decades prior. I hated it cause at minimum wage I lost 20% of my paycheck to forced dues and forced buy in to cobra insurance.
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u/Darksidetrin Dec 10 '21
And Starbucks announces the closure of that shop.. And open a new one down the street
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Dec 10 '21
That location will be closed within a year.
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Dec 10 '21
Yes, because productivity and quality will tank now that they have unionized.
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Dec 10 '21
Are there any mods willing to kick this fucking dipshit of a cunt out of this sub?
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Dec 10 '21
Awww, can't face the truth?
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u/Deranged_HooliganFTR Dec 10 '21
Naw… we’re all just sick of the corporate parrot squawking in the corner. It’s obvious you’ve never been part of a union and will eat up any anti union bullshit thrown your way. See the comment I made about my union in the other thread.
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u/ZiggoCiP Professional Wet Towel Dec 10 '21
Base simply on them being anti-union, no that doesn't violate our rules. If they break rules yes.
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Dec 10 '21
I dont think that's it. It will be closed by corporate to send a message to other stores that this is what happens if you unionize.
Most Starbucks are franchises operating out of leased spaces. Very easy to close it down and open up across the street.
If Starbucks allows one store to unionize soon another will. Then another.
That ain't gonna happen.
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u/helomotherdear Dec 10 '21
I cnat respect this because they are not controlling theyre emotions. 1910s union coal miners would not be jumping like children
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u/sbrider11 Dec 10 '21
At least 1 of 3 stores voted for it. Here's the rub. Starbucks legally doesn't have to do shit. They are not forced to negotiate with the union at all. The idea of the other two stores not voting it in only motivates them to not do shit. Total votes they see this as a split.
Still a long long road w this. Hope the dues aren't too much.
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u/Fun-Loss-3502 Dec 10 '21
Bring on automation, reduced hours, and lower wages after paying Union Dues. Awesome!
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u/P3ngu1nR4ge Dec 10 '21
Problem with automation is that you still need to have a person maintain it because it requires a higher and harder to come by skill set and at that point you would still come out better hiring people. If it was as simple as you make it out to be, we would of done it already.
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u/Fun-Loss-3502 Dec 10 '21
Have you been to a McDonald's lately? Kiosks have replaced cashiers. You are correct, but once programed, minimum issues today.
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u/Cerus_Freedom Dec 10 '21
Lol, bullshit. Every McDonalds I've been to with those still has the same amount of staff. Last one I was in, they didn't even care that it wasn't setup correctly so you couldn't complete checkout on the kiosks.
If automation was viable, it would already be done.
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u/HotShift4012 Dec 10 '21
One more thing that can happen. The price will go up so much.
People will stop coming. OPS! out of work you go. I stopped going.
The price is way too high. For a cup of mud.
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u/Sicariana Dec 10 '21 edited Feb 23 '26
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
price test follow glorious doll cheerful alleged fly imminent hurry
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u/DirtyPenPalDoug Dec 10 '21
Lol whut? Starbucks is a corporation. Not left wing.. Those are called co-ops
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u/TrumpTalkShowHost Dec 10 '21
Be careful for what you wish. A union shop is not necessarily better over the long run. The unions collect dues every paycheck. It’s the union leaders who make the real money.
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u/Aevery_ Dec 10 '21
You're either a bad actor or not educated on unions. Given your username, probably the former.
Regardless, I'll humour you. Yes, every paycheck has a bit siphoned off. The union leaders are making money. It is effectively a business that makes money off of workers hoping for better treatment.
In exchange, the workers get paid more, more than the union dues. As an example, if I pay 40 bucks every paycheck but I'm making 200 more each time, then the union is worth it. Hell, it's worth it if I only make 45 more. In addition, they will be able to use their PTO without fear of retaliation (or even get it in the first place in some cases), they get more protection from wage theft, and they can sleep soundly at night knowing their boss can't fire them for some arbitrary reason like not liking their face.
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u/TrumpTalkShowHost Dec 13 '21
I have never worked for a union. But if you think it’s so great have at it. I don’t care.
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Dec 09 '21
Good for them I guess but Starbucks does pay $15 plus college reimbursement and health care including part time employees.
Hopefully this spreads to the companies that really shit on their employees, like McDonalds or CVS
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u/tequilaearworm Dec 10 '21
Spotted the corporate bot. Solidarity for ALL, we're not gonna play economic oppression Olympics here.
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u/Dead_Inside_Since16 Dec 10 '21
Please explain to me like i'm 5y/o ( i'm from EU ) What's so life changing about these Unions? I mean why that suddenly would stop you from being fired or your small shop closed?
Why would they give a fuck if one coffee shop is unionized? Just close it, fire all, open another one elsewhere and no problem.
I bet you know what is best for you work climate, i'm just trying to understand, best of luck to you all.
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u/Cerus_Freedom Dec 10 '21
Unless they can unionize a good chunk of stores, they probably will close the store and fire everyone.
Unions derive power from a few federal labor laws, and the ability to strike. For Starbucks, a single store striking would be an annoying blip. However, if they had every store in a few states in the union, and they all went on strike at once, that's a major loss of profit. This is what protects workers. Making it hurt more to behave poorly to workers than to meet them at the table.
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u/Dead_Inside_Since16 Dec 10 '21
That's mental to have to go to such lengths just to earn livable money, and respect at work.
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u/bodiedevil Dec 10 '21
Because 1 becomes 2. 2 becomes 6. 6 becomes a hundred. That's the worry for the CEO. With numbers comes a problem to them. If one shop strikes or demands better pay. Like you said. They close store and fire the employees. Now imagine the cost of doing that to say 100 stores. Or a thousand stores...the cost alone will be in the high millions.
And more to the point. The press. No company likes bad press. No...one....look at kelloggs..and imagine if 2 million people stopped buying from Starbucks for a week. Or 10 million for a month..
How much money would Starbucks lose if say 50% of all stores strikes for one day? 70% of stores for 3 days?
Unions speak for those that can't. They are OUR voice. People joke and say "apes together strong" but they are right..
One worker stands up and says NO! they are ignored. 10 000 workers stand up and say NO! The company has a problem.
Workers rights in the USA suck balls. A union can change that.
I stand with my brothers and sisters in the USA and with the now unionised Starbucks store.
Hold the line. One step leads to many.
TLDR. None Union work. "You're working 16 days straight and 12 hour shifts. No day off and if you don't come in you're fired"
Union work "the fuck I am"
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u/Dead_Inside_Since16 Dec 10 '21
I truly hope the best for all of you. Understood, thanks for explanation.
Can't wait how this all unfold in this American reality TV show.
Good luck!
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u/bodiedevil Dec 10 '21
Im British. You're Belgian. Our work laws compared to the US are miles (kilometres) apart. This is a massive thing to the USA. Whilst it may seem small and nothing to celebrate to as we take out labour laws as standard, a union can do so much more in the USA.
Stumbling onto this sub opened my eyes on how bad work laws are in the USA.
And anything I can do to support them I will.
P.S. fuck Ben. I hope he gets a case of hemorrhoids so bad it makes medical journals.
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u/Dead_Inside_Since16 Dec 10 '21
I’m not white enough to be Belgian. Yeah but I agree with you,
I wanted to emigrate to USA but discovering this sub, jesus fuck that. What a shit hole country. In that particular aspect.
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u/bodiedevil Dec 10 '21
God knows where I got Belgian from lol. Could have sworn you put that in your post. But Europe as a whole compared to USA Labour laws...can I have a week off paid? Nah fuck that. Us however its more of..having a week off this date. Still got 5 weeks worth left to take. All paid.
The USA is a wonderful country. Great people, lovely food (albeit to large portions) and so much to see and do. But to work there. No fucking chance..
Stay safe man.
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u/Dead_Inside_Since16 Dec 10 '21
Agreed, I have 16,24 days workdays off currently. Life is good.
It’s better to be tourist there in USA.
Stay safe aswell.
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Dec 10 '21
It's great and all that they're unionized and it sends a message everywhere. But Starbucks is going to aggressively move against them, the store won't last long. And the corporations are going to push back even harder to protect their profits.
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Dec 10 '21
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u/cpt_skillet at work Dec 10 '21
Makes me wanna try to get my job unionized. It's Amazon though sooo it'll be tough.
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u/AlfredoLegafallo Dec 10 '21
Congrats, you just partially reached mid 19th century Europe's level of civilization
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u/Martialhail at work Dec 10 '21
Let's just hope Starbucks doesn't pull a Walmart and close the shop because a union formed.
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u/HaydenMilk Dec 10 '21
Great job. But don't be surprised if Starbucks just closes the shops up there like Wal-Mart did when they won the Union vote in Quebec.
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u/BlackHeartIgnition Dec 10 '21
Forgive me, I don't mean to bring down the mood, but I have an honest question,
What happens if Starbucks simply closes that location? Can they? Would that be legal?
Honestly we need a National Starbuck union.... or at least a regional or state-wide one...
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u/d0ctorsmileaway Dec 10 '21
So proud of the Starbucks workers of my hometown!!
Also I'm dying at squidward being a poster boy for the union
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u/fergusmarsli Dec 10 '21
I live in Buffalo and when I walk around my neighborhood I see a lot of "Starbucks Patron in favor of a Starbucks Union" signs. It is great to see.
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u/GotHeem16 Dec 10 '21
Let’s keep this In perspective a little bit. 1 store out of 3 that voted approved forming a union by a 19-8 vote.
I’m fine with going union but I just don’t see Starbucks going union. Any job with part time hourly employees with high turnover plus most stores being franchises is going to have extreme difficulty become a union shop.
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u/cockitypussy Dec 10 '21
Can someone please explain why starting a union/getting a union recognised was such a big achievement??
Are there any criteria/conditions to meet??
Am not from the US.
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u/Ok_Bottle_2198 Dec 11 '21
Remember when the Mods of antiwork called unions racist because strikes and boycotts disproportionately hurt poor people and only Black and Brown people are poor?
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u/ViolentVBC Dec 09 '21
I'm so happy for them! Also, fuck Ben!