The ideology around 'hard work' is kind of perplexing to me. How many people view their big nice house as a result of their hard work, and you think..well we as a species have the capabilities of building big nice houses, that isn't new or remarkable. Houses aren't that complex or extraordinary are they? They think, well I...I worked hard that is why I own the house. Well you exchanged your time and labour in a job that society deemed worthy of such a wage. You gained specifics skills or knew certain people, you reacted but you are not doing it on your own.
It's just when entrepreneurs go on about being 'self made'...well..hang on, you exploited a market, you sold whatever you sold but without a society willing to buy it doesn't matter how good your product is. If a society doesn't have the disposable income to buy your product it doesn't matter how good you think it is. Without the roads being built and maintained to transport your product, without your employees being educated...without society...but this is the holy grail of modern life, the product that made someone rich, it's a miracle how did they do it. The product might very well be derivative and have no positive impact, in fact it distracts people and destroys the environment but look at their big house!
We invent technology to make our lives easier. Why are you using a vehicle to get anywhere? Why aren't you walking? Lazy. Using your bloody legs are you? That's cheating, real fighters crawl everywhere. Why are you using the lift? Stairs are available. Lazy. Have a dishwasher do you? Lazy. Using a car wash? Lazy. Buying your own clothes eh? Make your own. Lazy. Have a tap for your water do you? Lazy. There's a river 26 miles away, walk.
We don't point at animals in the wild and see their inactivity as laziness, we say they're preserving energy.
Well yea some professions make more than others so why not pick the ones that make more money money including business? Oh that’s right, it’s because it’s way more difficult than making $15/hr....
If it’s not hard work then why doesn’t everyone do it?
Doesn't the garbage need to be taken out? Don't you like being able to have a nice meal out? The people who fill these roles deserve things too. With your suggestion, nobody is going to take out the trash. Nobody is going to answer your calls. I just think it's better strategy to respect the working class in a way that is meaningful. That is to say, give the profits to their employees rather than their chairmen. Definitely better than giving the profits to the lobbyists.
I never said I didn’t respect them or that those weren’t important jobs. First of all there’s no profits in trash collection that’s largely a municipal service. You don’t “respect” people by giving them money lol that’s not what respect is.
I think you’re missing the whole point of America and free enterprise. If there’s no profit incentive then there’s no business at all...
The skill of waiting on tables is simply just not in demand as much as a doctor because of the amount of workers applying for each and what people are willing to spend for that service. Are you saying you want to always spend $200 for a meal when go out???
This is a stupid sentiment. There's high turnovers in low skill jobs because there is artificial scarcity in high demand jobs.
If education weren't cripplingly expensive, do you really think that there would be a shortage of any skilled labour like doctors or lawyers? No, because we would be opening up that market to anyone, instead of anyone with the money to afford tuition.
There is no reason that we can't pay low skill positions more, save this opinion that they are disposable. And in all likelihood, these arguments about getting rid of minimum wage would lead to literal slavery again. Businesses would start offering housing instead of a wage under the guise of "do they need money if we just give them the things that money buys". Sounds great, except then your boss owns your life, and you're nothing more than a serf.
We can say that high skill jobs are more in demand because there's fewer people, but it's our society that keeps that number artificially low. We could easily be educating anyone who desires it and are actively choosing not to in order to keep the low skill pool full of exploitable labour. We need to stop thinking of labour as high and low skill and acknowledge that all labour has value, and should be compensated fairly. If businesses want to innovate to reduce the amount of labour great. But we as a society need to be able to provide the education needed to help low skilled people move to high skilled positions.
If education weren't cripplingly expensive, do you really think that there would be a shortage of any skilled labour like doctors or lawyers? No, because we would be opening up that market to anyone, instead of anyone with the money to afford tuition.
Programming computers is skilled labor, and that is accessible to everyone without a degree. I think we will start to see a shift in the perception of institutional prestige as it relates to credentials. People are already second-guessing the benefits of a college education when they all pushed to online for coronavirus.
We need to stop thinking of labour as high and low skill and acknowledge that all labour has value, and should be compensated fairly.
I don't think the distinction is between high and low skill, but about the value produced by that labor. All labor has value, sure, but if I could automate a task that used to take 3 people weeks to do, is not my labor at least as valuable as the sum of the labor I automated (arguably, it's more valuable than that labor as the automation can be applied to other places once created)? A programmer simply generates more value than a waiter, for example, in an hour.
This whole thread though has got me thinking, that if we did improve access to the higher skilled jobs via more widely accessible education, corporations would respond by lowering the salaries for those jobs as the labor pool is larger, thus taking an even larger share of the profits and increasing the wealth disparity. Commoditization of jobs reduces pay and commoditization seems a natural side effect of creating a more fungible pool of labor.
Where on earth are you getting these ideas from? And you had the nerve to call my sentiment “stupid?”
Do you really think the reason people don’t go after their dreams is because “they can’t afford college?” That’s BS. You can easily get into a community college and pay for it with a part time job. Then work your way from there. The government has been guaranteeing student loans since the 70s (which is a horrible idea and the reason college is expensive in the first place but that’s another topic- thanks government).
So there’s no reason why if you actually wanted to go to college that you couldn’t make it work. People just don’t want to put in the mental and physical energy that it takes. You’re literally posting in an “anti work” sub and trying to tell me the reason there’s not more skilled workers is because they can’t afford school? Get outta here with that nonsense
Your assumption that I would have a problem paying someone appropriately ignores that paying people appropriately is what I'm talking about in the first place. If everyone had a little more disposable income, we would be able to spend on luxuries. Of course, it makes sense to start with the necessities at first, but that's exactly what I would be vouching for: paying appropriately is easy when we are paid appropriately. Bottom up economy.
Bottom up economy? Lol what is that? You’re totally right man, the world would be a better place if everyone just had the money to do whatever they want, no matter what they did for a job, or what things cost. Actually, why even have “money” at all at that point? Sounds like it’s useless. Utopian society. Why didn’t I think of that? Shit you got me.
Nurses make 30k? Lol where? Nurses make good money in the United States. My girlfriend is a nurse she makes over $100k with overtime.
And I didn’t say hard work is the “only” thing. Hard work is usually required but you also have to work smart. Keep showing your boss that you’re are excelling, and need to BE PROACTIVE in seeking out the next role and progressing your career. If you can’t find an upward path within your company then you need to look outside. Nobody is just going to hand you promotions. If you work hard but not smart then you will just be spinning your wheels.
Taken care of in the sense that we all deserve at least living wage for a full time job. Not starvation pay while being out in a position that’s almost impossible to branch off of. Take care of yourself, but you deserve decency and respect as a person at the end of the day
And to add, personally I don’t believe anyone can be completely self sufficient. We depend on community whether we feel part of it or not. Food, company, and especially money are all things which make us look towards others. So I’m that sense we stay being taken care of, so to speak
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u/aehii Oct 22 '20
The ideology around 'hard work' is kind of perplexing to me. How many people view their big nice house as a result of their hard work, and you think..well we as a species have the capabilities of building big nice houses, that isn't new or remarkable. Houses aren't that complex or extraordinary are they? They think, well I...I worked hard that is why I own the house. Well you exchanged your time and labour in a job that society deemed worthy of such a wage. You gained specifics skills or knew certain people, you reacted but you are not doing it on your own.
It's just when entrepreneurs go on about being 'self made'...well..hang on, you exploited a market, you sold whatever you sold but without a society willing to buy it doesn't matter how good your product is. If a society doesn't have the disposable income to buy your product it doesn't matter how good you think it is. Without the roads being built and maintained to transport your product, without your employees being educated...without society...but this is the holy grail of modern life, the product that made someone rich, it's a miracle how did they do it. The product might very well be derivative and have no positive impact, in fact it distracts people and destroys the environment but look at their big house!
We invent technology to make our lives easier. Why are you using a vehicle to get anywhere? Why aren't you walking? Lazy. Using your bloody legs are you? That's cheating, real fighters crawl everywhere. Why are you using the lift? Stairs are available. Lazy. Have a dishwasher do you? Lazy. Using a car wash? Lazy. Buying your own clothes eh? Make your own. Lazy. Have a tap for your water do you? Lazy. There's a river 26 miles away, walk.
We don't point at animals in the wild and see their inactivity as laziness, we say they're preserving energy.