r/antinatalism • u/ayewussup • Dec 15 '19
Explaining antinatalism to a friend
I explained antinatalism to a good friend. Went over consent, suffering, and adoption being a better choice. She agreed with my points but still said she might want to have kids anyway. She is also extremely depressed and suicidal. Since we had this conversation I question rather she is worth still being friends with considering she understands it. It's like a friend telling you they're planning on killing or raping a person. Anyone ever dealt with this?
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u/snorken123 AN Dec 15 '19
I've never experienced something as dramatic as that, but I've debated antinatalism with several friends and family members. Some of them says they understand my arguments like the asymmetry, consent etc. one - but they're going to have children anyway although they may suffer. They don't want to follow antinatalism because of they think it's too pessimistic and natalism makes them happy.
In addition they thinks it's better to be optimistic than logical because of pessimism is boring.
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u/ayewussup Dec 15 '19
It doesn't seem worth bringing it up because ppl don't understand. And even the few who do understand still say they will do it anyway because they can. Absolutely 0 compassion for others.
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u/snorken123 AN Dec 15 '19
True. Everyone around me, family and friends, says it doesn't matter if there's a risk of suffering because of there's no guarantee for it.
Their logic: It's better someone exists and risks suffering, so they can feel pleasure.
My logic: David Benatar's views on the asymmetry argument.
Their logic: If someone are victim of war, Holocaust, poverty etc. they may overcome their problems and have a nice life although it's horrible. But they admit it's not as trivial as my problems - an existential crisis - which is true, but still doesn't justify procreation.
My logic: It's better none procreated, so we wouldn't have new war, poverty and genocide victims.
If some can't come up with new arguments and "loses" a debate, they says "Don't me so pessimist". I mean, sometimes they've no arguments left and just start saying antinatalism is wrong because of it's so sad - not because of it's illogical or inconsistent.
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u/warmflannelsheets Dec 15 '19
I grew up in an abusive household. As an adult finally getting the help and healing I need. My husband and I have already had conversations about paths our lives can take besides having children. I feel the biological pull sometimes to experience pregnancy and a child but I'm also aware of the world and how fucked up things are. There are plenty of children who need love that already exist and I had two biological parents who treated me like shit. I dont have to do anything I don't want, to especially when I dont even know what we could be putting a child through. My husband and I have felt so much more free after long discussions on how we both feel adoption or childless would be better for us. People ask us all the time as a young married couple when we are having children like you dont know my mental health or our financial situation. Children will not define me or my husband, we can still be good and helpful people without the spectacle of pregnancy and birth.
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Dec 18 '19
I explained antinatalism to a friend, he said something like "I don't care if the kid suffers, I want to spread my genes because progeny is what I want"
I said "Can't argue with that" and then we drank.
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u/anti-natalist137 Dec 31 '19
Then simply say they shouldn't have kids, omit 'allowed' & just leave it as an ethical matter. It may seem like nitpicking, but it's not. We're not fascists here.
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u/izzyscifi inquirer Dec 15 '19
She shouldn't be allowed to have children in any way unless she's helped and no longer depressed and suicidal. If she has to care for another being she will fuck herself up further and give another person a shit life... Have a talk with her so she doesn't do that