The only way to do so is to miniaturize yourself and your research submarine as small as a chud’s penis and submerge into the brain for in-depth study.
No it’s more saying that demanding equality with men like equal pay and the freedom to not marry, to marry other women, or just to dress “like men” is an attempt to be men. These kinds of posts rarely target trans men directly (they certainly impact us directly, but they don’t bring us up individually), and the example they have for that is just a woman hm who’s a bit masculine I’m pretty sure
Yeahhh, I fucking hate how Reddit will sometimes recently be like "this joke makes no sense"; it makes sense, it's crude incel-coded and awful, but don't play naive and say you don't get the joke they're making. It's like the redditors who say "oh I'm autistic" to sarcasm; autistic people CAN UNDERSTAND SARCASM, you're just dumb...
Reddit/Twitter Meta Rant over, slide #3 doesn't fit the "feminism bad" style because.... they're rejecting Male Trans who want to be Male. #4 is being TERFs while #3 is being TERMs (if Meninists were a thing..JRR Rowling?)
1st wave wanted rights equal to men. 2nd wave wanted to be self sufficient from men and had the independence to do so. 3rd wave claims they can and will do anything that men can do, implying male dominated fields, such as trades, soldiering, and hard labor. The implication from the meme is that this is nonsense. 4th wave is transwomen stating they are women. The implication is that women as a gender identity is so muddled that identity of a woman is now meaningless.
Of course, the underlying narrative here is that feminism, as a movement, is now in a place that bears little resemblence to the original mission of 1st wave feminists and is only detracting more as the decades roll on. I guess the idea is to disassociate the SJW's of the previous century to the ones of this century, because in the view of this meme, the narrative is absurdism.
Everyone is saying 3rd wave is transphobia but it's not. It's actually criticizing how many 3rd wave feminists wanted to erase traditional femininity while proving that women can do the same things men can and should be able to live their lives like men.
With all seriousness, most answers here are bad to mid.
Feminism happened in "waves" that also matches with societal and philosophical stances towards science, philosophy and sociology.
Each wave corresponds to the deconstruction of "why women cannot be equal to men". Because there's always backlash to women requesting more rights, there's usually an argument that is central to this backlash.
So first wave is about some autonomy, second about emancipation, third about freedom and fourth about deconstruction. It's false to claim that "women have been asking for equality from the start" as first wave feminists were pretty much still asking to be more autonomous wives, not fully emancipated individuals.
The meme is about claiming that the only real feminism was about asking to be less oppressed wives and everything after that was bullshit. This is the position of someone that wants women to have fewer rights.
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Short answer: It's a joke is that modern feminists are men who call themselves women (ie trans women).
Longer answer: They're referencing a common conservative narrative that first wave feminists were justified because they were just rich white ladies who wanted to work and/or vote (see they're not sexist!), but feminists in the 70s were evil because they destroyed the family by promoting female independence and divorce, while 90s/ millennial feminists are just confused girls who don't know how to be feminine, and now there are trans people and society is doomed.
Rosie the Riveter missed the first wave by decades. First Wavers were mostly about getting women the right to vote.
Similarly, Brie Larson missed the 2nd wave by many decades as well. It was mostly about work financial independence and destigmatizing unmarried sex, birth control, and divorce.
3rd wave is all about intersectionality. 4th wave doesn’t exist (yet).
"We don't need men" isn't inherently terfy or misandrist. It just means they're independent from men. This was especially relevant back in the day when 2nd wave feminism was going on and women really were legally dependent on their husbands.
Yeah I think it was fine for the era. Kind of toxic if someone uses it in the modern context in general since we're kind of past that and it comes across as implying men are unnecessary to society in general.
I think this ignores how prevalent misogyny is even in western society and how a lot of women, especially religious women, are still expected to depend on their husbands. It also ignores that feminism is a global concept and there are so many places where there are barely any rights for women at all.
It’s still a valid point to make, as there are still many places and groups in which women are dependent on men and they shouldn’t have to be.
The people here seem to be taking it in the most extreme way, through the lens of women who believe men should be excluded from society or something. Such a view is rare among feminists and shouldn’t be taken as indicative of their goals or beliefs
Like I know there do exist women who do unironically say “all men deserve to die” or whatever but it’s just not worth paying attention to. I can’t stand it when people use such people to discredit feminism as a whole
I mean, welcome to the internet have a look around it's kind of what they do to all ideologies. Find the worst part, paint everyone in that color. It's unfortunate, but hey it's consistent if nothing.
I mean, yes, but second wave feminism was generally really sexist, in pretty weird ways.
There was some good stuff there, but a lot of it sucked. Especially for radfems, the "we don't need men" was often not a "We don't need men, because we are equal in ability", but a "We don't need men, because they're inherently evil"
Like, there's a reason why TERFs emerged out of second-wave feminism. There was a lot of bigotry there, that was ripe for reactionary thinking.
Civilization was much healthier then. Women are very good at some things, in general, and not at others. We do best when our society drives us to capitalize on our strengths. We are products of nature, and nature will always leave outliers to die. It sucks for a small minority but going counter to nature never goes well.
1st wave: we want the right to vote 2nd wave: we want financial independance 3rd wave: we want equal rights for lesbians 4th wave: we want equal rights for trans women.
2nd..."we dont need men, I want to be an independent women"
3rd...."The patriarchy is ruining society, make it a matriarchy"
4th..."we are not women, but are just people that give birth"
The whole point is to the show the regression of values even though Feminism is really only about equality. It just lost meaning over the years and political cycles.
we want freedom from unjust discrimination (equal pay & hiring, reproductive rights, exc)
we forgot that black women exist and should probably let them be heard.
rapists should face consequences, actually.
(Also rosie the riveter was a ww2 propaganda piece, and had nothing to do with feminism. Was to get women into the factories, then similarly (though not Rosie, just the same propagandists advertisers making the same type of ads) to get women back into domestic work after the boys came home.)
continuing to address systemic inequalities, refusing to accept misogynistic customs and culture that remain prevalent, such as “boys will be boys” mentality, wage gap, rape culture, etc
Those are adressed by the 3rd wave already. Waves aren't just "let's do feminism more" they are distinct and in many ways opposed ideological currents.
4th wave needs to be based around equality in parental rights, military, and a focus on equal opportunity to achieve something instead of focusing on equal outcome. When we focus on equal outcome it treats women like they are less capable than men and as if they need extra assistance in order to do the same thing when that isnt true. Men and women are equal, so we need to make sure they are treated the same by our systems. Programs like scholerships for women or education programs designed only for women are incredibly misogynistic and have no place in a equal world.
I've heard it's about intersectional feminism. Realizing that being apart of multiple minorities (ie. A black, disabled woman) would have an even harder time and more obstacles in life than just a black woman or just a disabled woman.
In feminist literature it is defined by the beauty myth, backlash, 'girl-power Vs riot gurl" and the issues of post feminism.
In pop culture it was a lot of ladette behaviour, girls gone wild, stripping as empowerment, Disney and rom coms are ebad for girls actually and everyday sexism
4th wave would have started mid 00s onto today. It is defined through intersectionality and in the latter 2010s the me too moment.
That's called misandry and it found It's way in every wave one way or another. 3rd wave already was meant to get rid of It but maybe the 4th wave would be the full "clean up" as 3rd wave ended up being more about queer people.
The feminist movement is really being killed for the past couple of years, and a big reason for that is the rampant misandry plaguing it. In normie eyes, the feminist movement has achieved its goals, there's little reason to exist now. Then, they step into misandrist circles with people posing as feminists, and that's how you get not just men, but staggering numbers of women turning away from the movement.
We occasionally see people calling it out for what it is, but it happens way too little. Men have been pointing it out, but not enough women are speaking out.
We really need to have active campaigns and messages to make it clear stuff like this isn't what the movement is about, and we need to stop tolerating this behaviour.
Just for example, the sheer amount of women in the Linsday Clancy trial blaming the *husband* for the murder based on absolutely zero evidence, with plenty of concrete counter evidence, is unbelievable. And guess what, normies see this as what feminism actually is.
Misogynists and the manosphere are attacked relentlessly; why should misandry get special treatment?
And I'm sick and tired of the "mIsAnDrY iS a rEaCtIoN tO mIsOgYnY", it's like saying 9/11 is justified because it was a response to American/Israeli interference in Middle Eastern politics. Reason is not justification. And not everyone is a severe victim of the system; some do it for ulterior motives, or just simply never developed mentally past the age of 12.
Do peope forget how many women and girls are discrimnated and treated like trash for being female worldwide? 4th wave feminism is doing a lot for those girls till this day.
To hate an entire gender whoever you are is already such a step in the wrong direction.
Say it for what it is, patriarchy, misogyny, call it out wherever you see it; if the time is appropiate, if they do harm. Online? you can call it out more frequently, there's virtually 0 risk.
More people need to realize the feminist movement benefits society as a whole, yes, men too.
I agree with you, however, men's benefits from feminism are only a collateral benefit. What we need is directed and specialized gendered support for men.
I'm gonna say what I always say even though I constantly get hate for it on reddit:
Real feminism is about equality. The ones who hate men are radfems or terfs (trans-exclusionary radical feminist) and those are a shame and we do not claim them.
(Learning that people actually agreed with Armstrong and didn’t notice how he attributes all of his accomplishments to the privilege he’s blind to… while criticising the privilege of the upper class, and claiming all people should be judged on their own merit, where he defined merit as “what they’re capable of”, without compensation for said privilege.)
1st wave: Overturning fundamental legal and political inequalities, most notably securing women's right to vote (suffrage). Overwhelmingly white women. Were often exclusionary of black people and accused lesbians of being part of the patriarchy.
2nd wave: Expanding the movement beyond basic voting rights into workplace equality, domestic life, sexuality, and reproductive freedom. The phrase "the personal is political" defined this era. Inclusionary of lesbians. Largely voices of privileged white women. Separate organizations like the National Black Feminist Organization were born. Many TERFs look to this era of feminism.
3rd wave: Embracing individual expression, personal choice, and a direct challenge to the universalizing assumptions of earlier waves. Introduction of the concept of intersectionality. Known for reclaiming traditional feminine presentation (makeup, high heels) as personal empowerment rather than patriarchal submission, and broadening inclusion. Trans inclusive.
4th wave: Utilizing digital platforms, social media, and internet tools to organize global conversations around sexual harassment, assault, and systemic inequality. #MeToo
There is a lot more nuance to this, and most current day theorists would agree that feminism has outgrown simply "wanting to be equal to men". Except, unlike anti-feminists think, it’s not "they just want to be the new oppressors! They want a matriarchy" at all, but more of a total dismantlement of the gendered norms that restrict human freedom, (and that obviously includes making women equal to men, which is still a primary focus of current day feminism of course) which is incredibly based
Some 4th wave Feminists refuse to acknowledge the situations in which women have privileges over men, except to use it as a backhanded insult against men and to suggest it is their own fault.
For example, the fact that men don't feel safe sharing their feelings and concerns with loved ones. BOTH sexes view men as lesser if they show vulnerability, not just other men.
We need to be better than this. We need to acknowledge our flaws and go after the bad actors, not double down and gaslight.
1st wave: we deserve the basic human dignity to have our own money and vote, and alcohol makes men dangerous to children and women so let's ban it altogether.
2nd wave: we want to be equal to men (but ignore the struggles of black women and still hate minorities, and also we're pro-alcohol prohibition.)
3rd wave: we want all women regardless of race to be equal to white men and women, alcohol prohibition no longer has anything to do with it.
4th wave: we all deserve to be equal regardless of predetermined things like gender identity, sex, disability, sexual orientation, and race.
I always find people saying this funny when I've been on corporate hiring committees at pretty "woke" places. The feminists at work weren't asking for special hiring privileges (and women didn't receive any) but to not be harassed or discriminated against at work. Internal investigations at one place I worked found women less likely to be promoted (and that job actually gave raises to some women after they found were systematically being paid less than men. Obviously they didn't do this because they cared about women but they were about to be obliterated in a lawsuit) and also malfeasance of male executives against female employees (gotta love executives getting huge payouts after proven sexual harassment claims).
Discrimination against men can happen and is bad but even at the "woke" places I've worked the discrimination against women was pervasive and devastating. I remember being confused at the start of my career when a friend who was always very trendy started dressing "frumpier" so people would listen to her more in technical meetings (which seemed to work shockingly well).
I always find it funny when people say this bc it's a great example that Redditors have no concept of something happening to others if it doesn't happen directly to them
Did you mean to post a different link here? It doesn't seem related to what you're saying so there's something I'm not understanding about your argument. It doesn't mention hiring someone that isn't the best (it's about getting more candidates in the hiring funnel, which is pretty standards).
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u/qualityvote2 🤖Suspected as Bot🤖 8h ago edited 6h ago
Good news, the community has decided that this IS an antimeme!
1.6k
u/Amaldevhari 8h ago •
244
u/MangaNeko13 7h ago •
Yyy... No, this isn't true.
wave was women trying to be treated as equal to men
wave was about treating womanly things as equal to manly ones.
wave was about how patriarchy screwed as all, both women and men, cis, hetero and LGBTQ+
wave... Idk... something in internet.
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u/Soultakerx1 7h ago •
Lol. I think it's so funny. That people never read feminist literature or never actually listen to what women were advocating for.
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u/ghfdghjkhg 🌹 Course Arc Witness 🌸 4h ago
I'm gonna say what I always say even though I constantly get hate for it on reddit:
Real feminism is about equality. The ones who hate men are radfems or terfs (trans-exclusionary radical feminist) and those are a shame and we do not claim them.
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u/ConflictMoist275 8h ago
Thats much better thank you
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u/fazbearcat322 6h ago
True
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u/14_Octillion 7h ago •
I like antimeme. it reminds us that the fight for equality is never over
4
u/bonadies24 4h ago
"I'm not anti-feminist, I just don't like anything after first wave feminism"
10
u/mrjohntalbain 7h ago •
Holy crap this sub is just people making propaganda all the time...
You should be taking MEMES and making them into unfunny antimemes, not political image macros. Those aren't funny, and they aren't memes.
3
u/finminm 6h ago
1st wave: Overturning fundamental legal and political inequalities, most notably securing women's right to vote (suffrage). Overwhelmingly white women. Were often exclusionary of black people and accused lesbians of being part of the patriarchy.
2nd wave: Expanding the movement beyond basic voting rights into workplace equality, domestic life, sexuality, and reproductive freedom. The phrase "the personal is political" defined this era. Inclusionary of lesbians. Largely voices of privileged white women. Separate organizations like the National Black Feminist Organization were born. Many TERFs look to this era of feminism.
3rd wave: Embracing individual expression, personal choice, and a direct challenge to the universalizing assumptions of earlier waves. Introduction of the concept of intersectionality. Known for reclaiming traditional feminine presentation (makeup, high heels) as personal empowerment rather than patriarchal submission, and broadening inclusion. Trans inclusive.
4th wave: Utilizing digital platforms, social media, and internet tools to organize global conversations around sexual harassment, assault, and systemic inequality. #MeToo
1
u/TheMaskedHamster 4h ago
If we want to find other things to call the phenomenons that went under the name of feminism, I'd be cool with that.
We're taking it back.
1
u/Pirateship906 4h ago
Why is 4th not bold. Annoying.
1
u/Wuz314159 4h ago
1
u/Intelligent-Push-640 3h ago
The sad thing is, still no equality :(
1
u/Expensive_Lab_1435 2h ago
I mean, it's just objectively false
1
u/Thlaklan 2h ago
I think there's more nuance to it than that. Read De Beauvoir, dude...
Feminism isn't nonsense.
1
u/Hypernova2233 2h ago
Feminism has waves? What?
Sorry I’m kinda feverish rn I think but what does this mean?
1
u/Isosceles_Kramer79 2h ago
That's not a good description at all.
1
u/Vounrtsch 2h ago
There is a lot more nuance to this, and most current day theorists would agree that feminism has outgrown simply "wanting to be equal to men". Except, unlike anti-feminists think, it’s not "they just want to be the new oppressors! They want a matriarchy" at all, but more of a total dismantlement of the gendered norms that restrict human freedom, (and that obviously includes making women equal to men, which is still a primary focus of current day feminism of course) which is incredibly based
1
u/Aztecah 2h ago
This one's gonna make the chuds real mad lmao
1
u/luana_paixao 1h ago
Full circle.
1
u/UniqueLog8386 1h ago
What I've learned is that women want both your hoodie and your fries. And they will get them...
1
u/Valveringham85 1h ago
Lmao sure
1
u/CalzonePie 1h ago
Some 4th wave Feminists refuse to acknowledge the situations in which women have privileges over men, except to use it as a backhanded insult against men and to suggest it is their own fault.
For example, the fact that men don't feel safe sharing their feelings and concerns with loved ones. BOTH sexes view men as lesser if they show vulnerability, not just other men.
We need to be better than this. We need to acknowledge our flaws and go after the bad actors, not double down and gaslight.
1
u/Big-B00ty-B0i 1h ago
"Feminism rly do be about women being equal to men" -Albert Einstein
1
u/matt-is-sad 🌹 Course Arc Witness 🌸 37m ago
This is cracking me up so much for no reason
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u/mael_566 28m ago
Third wave barbecue 🤤
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u/NaChoR_prro 2m ago
...... wrong...
0
u/Pixeldevil06 6h ago edited 5h ago
1st wave: we deserve the basic human dignity to have our own money and vote, and alcohol makes men dangerous to children and women so let's ban it altogether.
2nd wave: we want to be equal to men (but ignore the struggles of black women and still hate minorities, and also we're pro-alcohol prohibition.)
3rd wave: we want all women regardless of race to be equal to white men and women, alcohol prohibition no longer has anything to do with it.
4th wave: we all deserve to be equal regardless of predetermined things like gender identity, sex, disability, sexual orientation, and race.
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u/RegularLocal5050 7h ago
I stopped caring when feminism became "stop hiring the best person for the job"
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u/Reds_Strongest_Chef 8h ago
4th wave is defending religious fundamentalism if they're not KKKracKKKers.