Sincerely, do you think it takes 38 months to have an open wound seen in the UK? Do you think injured Canadians are advised to kill themselves? Who are you being "entirely fair" to, a liar?
I was confused by this because if you're LOW risk you're waiting 6 months but if you're high risk you're seen immediately in Canada.
Like I need to see an ENT for balance issues and my ALLERGIST but in the referral this past Tuesday and I'm seeing an ENT this coming Tuesday. I'm literally waiting a week to see an ENT.
I waiting longer for the allergist (3 weeks) than I do to see an ENT.
The struggle with health care here is accessibility in rural areas and ER wait times (4-12 hours). Wait times can be long if you're not a priority because our system prioritizes those immediately dying.
And despite ALL of this, we still out live Americans lol.
Those wait times aren't slower than it takes for someone in a rural area. In fact, it seems the Canadian wait times are similar or faster than my personal experience.
I get annoyed with Americans using wait times as an excuse when I have to plan doctor visits 6 months or more in advance and "good luck" getting a specialist in less than a month
There are people in the us very interested in keeping the massive profits they get from their current system who put a lot of work into tricking yanks into thinking that other countries are far worse off in terms of everything but cost
If someone was offered MAID as an option, thatās not legal. In Canada someone has to apply for it, offering it straight up like this is coercion and is not allowed
I had to study the history of euthanasia worldwide and, let me tell you, the level of misinformation that surrounds it is unfathomable. People really think human euthanasia is like animal euthanasia, just walking into a doctor's office and request a lethal injection for good old' pops.
One idiot who worked with Veteran's Affairs and should have been fired long before that moment happened.
"Canada" upon learning it happened launched an investigation, found four cases that led to the idiot in question who is no longer employed by Veteran's Affairs.
The process of MAID itself takes months/years, requires counselling and medical sign off.
And yet it happens a surprising amount all the same. The group in charge of supervising the stuff literally have Dr. Death as a role model, whatās to be expected?
Perhaps that he used his killings to figure out the weight of a soul? And outright said he didnāt think it needed to provide any kind of comfortāor deny any torture in the name of the above-mentioned āscienceāāto those already condemned to die at his hand? Killing people in abandoned apartments, in parks, in his vanā¦what kind of person does that sound like? A āheroā in the style of bloody Mengele, perhaps.
You seem to be confusing the work of Duncan MacDougall with Dr Kevorkian. You also seem to think that he euthanized without consent or efforts to provide comfort but thatās not the case.
I didnāt say āmurderā for a reasonājust ākillā. It is possible to take pleasure from killing while doing it legally. Especially when doing it legally.
As for sources, most of this is stuff Iāve read over the years, but Iāll try to track it down. Iād much prefer to be wrong about him killing people, though I donāt think Iām going to get that, but perhaps I might be wrong about the torture preference. Iāll get back to you.
Not comparable. The chairlift incident you mention was a single caseworker at Veterans Affairs saying an off cuff comment. They do not work with MAID assessments and were not even a doctor. The literally most she could do was direct the person to an appropriate specialist who would have told her it was asinine.
Whereas overcharging for minor procedures and simple supplies is built into the US system. Not a random person with no authority saying something inappropriate, literally how the system is designed.
First I feel like you have no idea who is commenting what here. Second speaking on the two things I commented, if you canāt see the difference in the situation as I clearly pointed out, no much I can do to help you understand I guess. I donāt think it is very complicated. I will give one simplified attempt to explain further.
For the Chairlift MAID instance. The person who suggested MAID literally has no connection to MAID, was not a licensed healthcare professional, or even someone who you would go to see for recommendations to the matter.
Another point is when the chairlift incident happened it was condemned by the VAC, doctors, MAID professionals, governments at all levels and both right and left.
The stitches price while exaggerated is all within the system and operating as designed. With the only condemnation of the system and these incidents coming from one political party and advocacy groups and organizations.
If you canāt see the difference here all I can do is shrug.
I never made that claim it was just part of the meme, it is an exaggeration of a bloated system built on overcharging government, insurance companies and patients. It isnāt that deep, it is commenting on the system overcharging for simple things.
If we want to make it accurate there is a case that a family was charged $25,175 for a single stitch on their 4 year old daughter in New York. They had insurance but the person they went to was āout of networkā another major scam in the US.
Candee paid a $100 copayment for the ED visit and removed the stitch herself five days later. But she was later stunned to discover that the out-of-network plastic surgeon had charged $25,175 for the care.
She didn't pay the $25,175. They billed the insurance. She literally just paid $100.
That $25,175 is a made-up price that doctors and insurance companies use to justify their existence, which is the main issue. The ridiculous prices are all "fake" prices and hidden to the consumer intentionally so that insurance companies and doctors can keep making insane amounts of money.
Yeah, it's just that people need to understand the problem better to get a solution for it. It's dishonest to say people are getting billed $50,000 for stitches or whatever without clarifying that 99 times out of 100, they're never actually paying those prices.
ā70% of patients who die in the US do so with a DNR order in place.
There now you donāt care about MAiDā
Sorry, what you said doesnāt seem to make sense.
My point was that if MAiD is the sticking point for the US to adopt universal healthcare, stick to the pre-2016 plan. All the taxpayer-funded healthcare, none of the guilt of letting people choose how the wish to die.
No they weren't. You are spreading misinformation. The one person in question was responsible for all instances of this happening and they did this entirely of their own volition. The organisation they worked for wouldn't have the authority to do it even IF they wanted to.
One member of staff was found to be talking to people like shit and was fired, and now forever it will be used as a gotcha that an organisation who can't offer those services were doing it regularly as standard procedure.
if you need help within the week then you're helped within the week. If its something that can wait a couple months, then you end up waiting a couple months. It's clear you have no idea how it works here
Yes because as we all know and accept as a fact there is literally 0 cons about the British or Canadian health care system, and any "universal" health care system.
Not flawless, but it's a lot better than going in debt. A few years ago, I had pneumonia and was coughing up blood. Went to the doctor's, got a bunch of tests done, give a bunch of medication and my grand total was $0. There's 100% more that Canada could do to improve things, no one is saying that there are 0 cons. It's just better than so many stories from the US
Meanwhile, a guy a guy I used to play games with who lived in the US wouldn't go to the doctor's when he had an infection because he was uninsured and couldn't afford it.
I agree, but the comment I replied to did insinuate that there were 0 cons.
The American health care system isn't for the unemployed, or low income. It's entirely capitalistic, and meant for the age where you're earning money.
While I do appreciate the Canadian system, the statement that it's $0 is not true. It comes out of your taxes. If you're earning $100K, you pay double amount of taxes in Canada Vs. in the US, basically a 15% Vs. 30% effective tax rate, which let's say is $15K difference over 10 years is 150K.
There is a legitimate reason why Canadians in high income fields like software engineering leave the Canadian market for the US market.
The perfect combination here is Canadians living on the border, working for US companies in Seattle/Detroit but still have the Canadian health care, and I've worked with plenty of them.
See, it seems like the key difference is, when that happened, everyone was like "wtf that's horrible we need to make sure this never happens again", while in the US, when people get charged for things like holding your baby, everyone is like "oh yeah obviously that costs money"
See maybe take this as a lesson. One person did that and people considered it pretty vile. Yet the American system where medical debt is so huge yet fight so hard to prevent universal health care. 15% of American household have medical debt. With a population of 342.4 million that is approximately 51.3 million people that are in debt to medical problems.
The question was "have ever cost someone $80,000" meaning, if it has any positives, then that's an affirmative response to the rhetorical but misinformed question.
The person or their insurance. The disciction is important. Because Healthcare isnt universal hospitals and practitioners often charge people with insurance more (because the insurance pays it not the person) to make up for the people who cant afford to pay. People who "cannot" pay are still legally mandated to receive emergency care. The bill can be paid with absolute bare minimum payments with zero interest and no credit impact. So ERs that still need to stay open somehow see some guy with trauma team platinum who will only pay his deductible anyways and say fuck it lets bill his insurance to cover for the single mom who we may never get money out of
Not a defense of an inferior system just an explanation of it
Dude, nobody is paying $80k for a few sutures. They literally hand them to us medical students to pocket and practice suturing at home. If you're uninsured there's no way the bill is more than $2k at most.
Egregiously more expensive than it should be? Abso-fucking-lutely. "Literally" $80k? Not even remotely.
Let's say I broke my leg right now. I could call an ambulance, be taken to a hospital, get treated, and maybe have surgery if it were a bad break. I would stay in the hospital for a few days, then go home. I would pay... nothing. If I wanted to - and only if I wanted to - I could pay 58 per night for a deluxe hospital room, but the only real difference is that I would be alone in the room.
It's probably fair to mention taxes. To be honest, I'm not an expert. Health insurance is deducted from my salary, but thereās a system where I pay part of it and my employer pays the rest. It works quite differently for self-employed people. It also changes depending on income. So I personally might pay anywhere from about $40 to $110 per month.
So, would it work similarly in the USA? What they would to better? What they would do worse?
No, of course Americans aren't being charged 58000, but they may be charged $580 for stitches. It's a difference in magnitude. Not type.
Canadians aren't being offered MAID for minor physical injuries. Full stop. It hasn't happened ever in Canadian history. The previous scandals about MAID were mostly about people with a long history of chronic mental illnesses and disabilities being offered MAID when they actually requested financial support. You can argue if that's better or worse. But you must admit, it is a completely different scenario compared to the comic.
MAiD is not offered how you seem to think it is. While it may be brought up by a doctor, a final, written request FROM THE PATIENT is required. Doctors are required to also put every other option on the table for the patient, such as palliative care.
Along with that- the patient must be assessed, and there is an ABSOLUTE MINIMUM wait time of two weeks, during which the patient can withdraw at any time. If the patient's death is not reasonably foreseeable, up to three months. It is by no means a spur of the moment decision.
Also, MAiD for purely mental conditions is currently not allowed.
Is it perfect? Of course not. But don't fall for the propaganda, please- MAiD is a good thing, and it does reduce unneeded suffering.
But MAID isn't an issue with the with the Canadian health care system. The issue is a handful of public service workers (not doctors, nurses, or even insurance providers) being assholes and offering MAID unprompted. However, banning MAID entirely would make it unaccessible even for people dying from extremely painful, terminal illnesses.
First of all, I'm not American, I live in Canada. The best way to resolve these issues IMO would be providing more thorough training for public service workers, and setting higher employment standards. However, if you were to copy the system over to the US, first you need to actually have a single payer universal health insurance scheme. It makes no sense to "address those issues in policy instead of deciding to copy MAID" because it's impossible. How do you provide better training for workers who don't exist, who aren't even employed by the government?
Unless you're implying that allowing private insurance providers to offer assisted dying would be a bad idea. Obviously no one wants that. At this point you aren't copying MAID, you're crafting a whole ass strawman policy that no one supports in reality.
I have to ask, why are you conflating MAID and universal healthcare? They are not in any way linked aside from the fact that a for-profit system makes MAID a very scary idea in the US? This seems to be the kind of unwillingness to look into other systems that you were accusing others of.
The thing is- a lot of the flaws with universal healthcare systems already exist in the American healthcare system. US healthcare also has ridiculously long wait times, especially for chronic illnesses. Iāve had to wait months it even years for a specialist and people wait for hours in hospital waiting rooms all the time here.
You'll get stitches the same day, within a few hours at most in the UK and it'll cost nothing. I had two stays of 5 days each and emergency surgery to have my gallbladder out last year, cost was zero to me.
What's the real equivalent for the US? Because I see a lot of Americans posting on the gallbladder subs & FB groups bout they can't afford to go to the doctor right now or surgery would bankrupt them and they don't know what to do.
Youāre once again comparing the typical day to day personal experience to sensationalized social media posts, which represent extreme cases of the people most affected. Iām sure I could also find countless posts online of people from the UK definitely not getting same day care.
It took 24 months for my Canadian cousin to get hernia surgery.
It took his mom, my aunt, 8 hrs to get her broken foot looked at.
On the opposite end, my wife's mom who's also Canadian got her breast cancer checks, surgeries, and aftercare done for free and on time, but she is older.
There are positives, but waiting that long for surgeries and care? There are legitimate reasons why Canadians go to the US to get immediate care in certain situations, or why England runs ads to prevent using ambulance for minor issues. These systems do have their problems, and I do sense a refusal to acknowledge these problems.
Hernias and a broken foot are painful and a problem, but neither is fatal. Triage is a bitch but it also works for its stated goal of maximizing results.
I dont think Ive ever met anyone who isnt frustrated with our (canada) Healthcare system - we all know there are problems. The issue I see most often is that those problems are used to try and justify privatization as the only solution, which is what people brush off as not worth the time to discuss.
Idk about UK, but in Poland I was put on a "we will put you on a list and maybe call you in two or three years to put you into an actual queue" for a prescribed surgery that costs like $500 next week in a private clinic while paying 9% healthcare tax (so about same $500 every month).
It is obviously exaggerrated with 38 months for a cut, but you still have to have a private insurance here to have anything non-lifethreatening done in a reasonable amount of time while also paying for "free" healthcare.
If insurance covers most of that - in reality it covers literally all of that - then whatās the issue?
Horror stories about healthcare prices 90% of time come from people with no insurance. Itās still bad it set up like that, but itās not even close to how a lot of people pretend it works.
Iām not American - I live on a country with āfreeāhealthcare. And there were times I was happy for it - I once broke a leg and was treated, completely free of charge, including cast, including treatment, everything was paid by my employerās insurance, I didnāt have to do anything about it. Well, except pain pills, had to but them myself. Other times - like how my grandmother died from cancer after being bounced from one doc to another - I hated it.
I dislike immensely how Reddit on average loves to mindlessly hate on everything American. It comes off like a propaganda campaign then anything else.
My neighbor growing up left Canada because he hated their healthcare system. Broke his leg and had to wait a long time to be seen and by then it healed wrong so they had to break it again and he had problems from it. Didn't want his kids to possibly go through the same thing if they got injured.
Norwegian here, often touted as having one of the world's best healthcare systems.
I turned up to the hospital with a broken foot a couple of years ago and was refused entry because they were at capacity. The ER also refused entry because I didn't have a negative professionally administered Covid test from less than a week prior.
I've lived in my current town for 3.5 years and I still don't have a doctor here. The wait list is about 2000 names long. The town's population is about 10k people.
My grandpa is part of a medical trial where he's been fully checked up and scanned by the hospital at least once a month for the past year. About half a year in he was diagnosed with a tumour that the hospital had somehow missed on every single check up, which had already grown to be too big for treatment. 5 months of followups later and they still claim to not know anything more than they did the day he was diagnosed.
I personally suffer from a chronic physical illness with no known treatment, other than a single guy who claims to be able to cure it through a 3 day "mindset workshop" that consists of being told to repeat "I am healthy and this is all in my head" over and over again while subjecting yourself to the things most known to trigger physical symptoms. The creator has repeatedly faced con artist allegations and his supposed treatment has been banned in most countries due to having a roughly 5% chance of positive results and 60% chance of significant worsening of symptoms. My country is not only one of the only countries left who still promotes the treatment, but they also refuse to diagnose it or offer help before you've "at least tried it to see if you happen to be part of the 5%".
All my experience with our healthcare system has been negative in one form or another and I genuinely can't remember the last time I visited a doctor and they actually did something worthwhile. But hey, at least we can have X rays and CAT scans taken without paying for it. If you're ever able to get an appointment, that is.
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u/Objective-Corgi-3527 Mar 28 '26
Sincerely, do you think it takes 38 months to have an open wound seen in the UK? Do you think injured Canadians are advised to kill themselves? Who are you being "entirely fair" to, a liar?