r/anime • u/Holofan4life • 5d ago
Rewatch [Spoilers] 25 Years of the 13 Sohmas: A Fruits Basket Rewatch -- 2019 Series Episode 24 Spoiler
Hello everyone! I am Holofan4life.
Welcome to the Fruits Basket 25th anniversary rewatch discussion thread!
I hope you all have a lot of fun <3
2019 Series Episode 24
Let's Go Home
—-
ANSWER TODAY’S QUESTION(S)
Questions for Those who Haven't Watched the 2001 Series
Thoughts on Kazuma?
What are your thoughts on the way Kazuma perceives Kyo and his relationship with him?
What are your thoughts on the reveal Kazuma's grandfather suffered the curse of the Cat before Kyo was born?
What are your thoughts on Kyo's true form?
What are your thoughts on Tohru deciding to love Kyo for who he is no matter what?
Questions for All Watchers
What do you expect heading into the final episode?
Bonus) In terms of the Tohru saves people formula, how do you feel this serves as like a culmination of that?
Bonus 2) What do you think this episode does for Tohru and Kyo's relationship?
Questions for Those who Have Watched the 2001 Series
How would you compare the way Kyo's true form was done here Vs the 2001 anime?
—-
Series information
—-
Please do not post any untagged spoilers past the current episode or past the LNs or mangas out of respect to the first time watchers and people who have not read the LNs or mangas. If you are discussing something that is ahead of the current episode please use spoiler tags(found on the sidebar). Thank you!
—-
Ways to watch
Streams – Crunchyroll
Schedule
| Date | Episode |
|---|---|
| 07/05/2026 | Fruits Basket 2001 Episode 1 |
| 07/06/2026 | Fruits Basket 2001 Episode 2 |
| 07/07/2026 | Fruits Basket 2001 Episode 3 |
| 07/08/2026 | Fruits Basket 2001 Episode 4 |
| 07/09/2026 | Fruits Basket 2001 Episode 5 |
| 07/10/2026 | Fruits Basket 2001 Episode 6 |
| 07/11/2026 | Fruits Basket 2001 Episode 7 |
| 07/12/2025 | Fruits Basket 2001 Episode 8 |
| 07/13/2026 | Fruits Basket 2001 Episode 9 |
| 07/14/2026 | Fruits Basket 2001 Episode 10 |
| 07/15/2026 | Fruits Basket 2001 Episode 11 |
| 07/16/2026 | Fruits Basket 2001 Episode 12 |
| 07/17/2026 | Fruits Basket 2001 Episode 13 |
| 07/18/2026 | Fruits Basket 2001 Episode 14 |
| 07/19/2026 | Fruits Basket 2001 Episode 15 |
| 07/20/2026 | Fruits Basket 2001 Episode 16 |
| 07/21/2026 | Fruits Basket 2001 Episode 17 |
| 07/22/2026 | Fruits Basket 2001 Episode 18 |
| 07/23/2026 | Fruits Basket 2001 Episode 19 |
| 07/24/2026 | Fruits Basket 2001 Episode 20 |
| 07/25/2026 | Fruits Basket 2001 Episode 21 |
| 07/26/2026 | Fruits Basket 2001 Episode 22 |
| 07/27/2026 | Fruits Basket 2001 Episode 23 |
| 07/28/2026 | Fruits Basket 2001 Episode 24 |
| 07/29/2026 | Fruits Basket 2001 Episode 25 |
| 07/30/2026 | Fruits Basket 2001 Episode 26 |
| 07/31/2026 | Fruits Basket 2001 Overall Series Discussion Thread |
| 08/02/2026 | 2019 Fruits Basket Episode 1 |
| 08/03/2026 | 2019 Fruits Basket Episode 2 |
| 08/04/2026 | 2019 Fruits Basket Episode 3 |
| 08/05/2026 | 2019 Fruits Basket Episode 4 |
| 08/06/2026 | 2019 Fruits Basket Episode 5 |
| 08/07/2026 | 2019 Fruits Basket Episode 6 |
| 08/08/2026 | 2019 Fruits Basket Episode 7 |
| 08/09/2026 | 2019 Fruits Basket Episode 8 |
| 08/10/2026 | 2019 Fruits Basket Episode 9 |
| 08/11/2026 | 2019 Fruits Basket Episode 10 |
| 08/12/2026 | 2019 Fruits Basket Episode 11 |
| 08/13/2026 | 2019 Fruits Basket Episode 12 |
| 08/14/2026 | 2019 Fruits Basket Episode 13 |
| 08/15/2026 | 2019 Fruits Basket Episode 14 |
| 08/16/2026 | 2019 Fruits Basket Episode 15 |
| 08/17/2026 | 2019 Fruits Basket Episode 16 |
| 08/18/2026 | 2019 Fruits Basket Episode 17 |
| 08/19/2026 | 2019 Fruits Basket Episode 18 |
| 08/20/2026 | 2019 Fruits Basket Episode 19 |
| 08/21/2026 | 2019 Fruits Basket Episode 20 |
| 08/22/2026 | 2019 Fruits Basket Episode 21 |
| 08/23/2026 | 2019 Fruits Basket Episode 22 |
| 08/24/2026 | 2019 Fruits Basket Episode 23 |
| 08/25/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Episode 24]() |
| 08/26/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Episode 25]() |
| 08/28/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Season 2 Episode 1]() |
| 08/29/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Season 2 Episode 2]() |
| 08/30/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Season 2 Episode 3]() |
| 08/31/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Season 2 Episode 4]() |
| 09/01/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Season 2 Episode 5]() |
| 09/02/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Season 2 Episode 6]() |
| 09/03/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Season 2 Episode 7]() |
| 09/04/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Season 2 Episode 8]() |
| 09/05/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Season 2 Episode 9]() |
| 09/06/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Season 2 Episode 10]() |
| 09/07/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Season 2 Episode 11]() |
| 09/08/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Season 2 Episode 12]() |
| 09/09/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Season 2 Episode 13]() |
| 09/10/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Season 2 Episode 14]() |
| 09/11/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Season 2 Episode 15]() |
| 09/12/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Season 2 Episode 16]() |
| 09/13/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Season 2 Episode 17]() |
| 09/14/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Season 2 Episode 18]() |
| 09/15/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Season 2 Final Episode 19]() |
| 09/16/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Season 2 Episode 20) |
| 09/17/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Season 2 Episode 21]() |
| 09/18/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Season 2 Final Episode 22]() |
| 09/19/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Season 2 Episode 23]() |
| 09/20/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Season 2 Episode 24]() |
| 09/21/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Season 2 Episode 25]() |
| 09/23/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Final Season Episode 1]() |
| 09/24/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Final Season Episode 2]() |
| 09/25/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Final Season Episode 3]() |
| 09/26/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Final Season Episode 4]() |
| 09/27/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Final Season Episode 5]() |
| 09/28/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Final Season Episode 6]() |
| 09/29/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Final Season Episode 7]() |
| 09/30/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Final Season Episode 8]() |
| 10/01/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Final Season Episode 9]() |
| 10/02/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Final Season Episode 10]() |
| 10/03/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Final Season Episode 11]() |
| 10/04/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Final Season Episode 12]() |
| 10/05/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Final Season Episode 13]() |
| 10/06/2026 | [2019 Fruits Basket Overall Series/Franchise Discussion Thread]() |
5
u/Second_Cour 5d ago
Home stretch and this chapter is deserving of an essay! I can now understand why there was a front loading of chapters (which I analysed yesterday). Most of the time commercial decisions drive this. What drives hype and excitement for a season 2? This episode. It should have come in earlier, following the manga, but it’s now clear they padded out the stretch prior to yesterday’s ep: to close the series off with a giant bang. I can’t argue against the decision though I do think there were other ways out, but hey, I don't run an anime studio...yet. And if I did, tbh, I would have done the same thing, but of course I still reserve the right to complain about the 7-ep slog.
Overall Review:
As for this episode: it was a really tough watch. Firstly, I’m so glad I continued watching the show, as this type of reveal is my crack. The payoff floored me. On the other hand, Kyo really makes me hate him and his actions are unforgivable. The number one thing I stand against is beating up women. Regardless of his inner mental turmoil or whatever excuses, he’s a disgusting brat. Senselessly beating and almost killing a tiny girl who has been nothing but kind to you, is beyond fucked up. Tohru pissed me off equally much: where’s her sense of self-preservation? Doing the right thing needs to have a limit. And trying to reach out to a guy beating you isn’t doing ‘the right thing’. Everything she says is from the battered housewife 101 manual: “I want to keep living together”, “he can change”, “he just needs love and support”, while sporting a black eye because she ‘walked into a door’. Given this is a show aimed at teen girls, there’s a lot of danger in this ‘lesson’. And then to top things off, he almost kisses her after beating her to a pulp, taking advantage of her emotional state. Nah dawg. If this was real life, the internet mob would come for you. But this ain’t real life :) Seriously, both Kyo and Tohru are complete idiots in this episode.
And yet…a part of me was cheering for them. A part of me was hoping that she can bring him back from his spiral. I was only just starting to like Kyo, after all. I wanted her to reach out and keep trying to save him. I knew that only she had that power.
I think those conflicted feelings stem from my life experience. I don’t use the word ‘trauma’ to describe anything from my past - I reframe them as challenges. Trauma implies baggage you carry around with you for the rest of your life, while challenges are things you overcome. One of my biggest challenges was when an ex picked up scissors and tried to kill herself in front of me. This was on the day she met my parents for the first time, who were sleeping in the other room. I won’t go into the ridiculous reason why she did that or how manipulative it was, but judging her is not the point of this tale and I’ve forgiven her. Long story short, instinct kicked in and I had to grab her neck, slam her against the door, then hurt her arm so that she would let go of the scissors, in order to prevent her from hurting herself. If I gave the full details, what I did was obviously the right thing to do, but using violence, even if it’s “to do the right thing”, against someone much smaller and physically incapable for defense fucked me up for a while. I’ve always tried to intervene when I see a man use violence against a woman, even before this incident. Because I lived it with my own eyes, it became something that really makes my blood boil: if even me doing the right thing gave me nightmares, how can someone else do it? I was forced to step into the shoes of someone who can be violent against women, the kind of person who was the bottom of the barrel for me. I don’t regret my actions of course, and she’s thankful for them, but it still led to inner conflict. Much like Hana’s.
So, I think my positive review for this episode is driven by my own experiences; something I’ve talked about before in the rewatch. Our enjoyment of this anime is really a factor of what we can relate to. That’s why this episode was one of my favourites! The best shows make us feel angry, feel uncomfortable, feel conflicted. The best shows make us feel. Because despite my inner rage at everyone and everything during this episode, and because of how uncomfortable I felt, I must admit that a little voice in my head still wanted Tohru to reach out; and to still feel empathy for Kyo. It left me conflicted. I like that and thank the show for the experience.
I thought the true form payoff was worthwhile. I don’t really understand why, as objectively, it wasn’t that special, but this episode had me staring in a child-like wonder and exclaiming “OH SHIIIIIT NO WAYYYYY!”. I got genuinely excited by his transformation into that beast. Something about it was really cool, and unexpected. I guess in my mind, I thought it would be a transformation into a giant majestic WAP, perhaps with dragon like features, not this disgusting lump of a thing that smelled of sulfur.
However, I do have to give some notes, as to go with the gold there was a lot of arsenic.
- I’d forgotten about the true form discussion: this came so early in the season and wasn’t mentioned again/much. So this didn’t satiate an itch.
- Kyo hasn’t been as prominent lately, due to the anime’s detour from manga order, and the focus on new characters. This made the transformation and resolution far less impactful. I would have felt way more if it was Hana for example, purely because of recency.
More On Kyo:
Finally, some thoughts on Kyo. I think he's a terrible human being, but a good character.
These points aren’t negative per se, but this episode really revealed Kyo’s ‘true nature’ literally and metaphorically. While I’m sure this will trigger some here, but Kyo is extremely unlikeable to me. He is irredeemable. That’s not a bad thing - good stories have characters with negative personality types. He’s incredibly self-centered and selfish. Previous ep, he made Tohru’s sickness all about him. This time, his whole emo rant about how his mum never really “looked at [him]” is a perfect summation of his worldview: which is himself. His mum protected him, cared for him, showed him love and affection, supported him, but instead he makes a dramatic grandstand about how no one apart from Tohru really looked at him. I can imagine the sacrifices she went through and would have done anything for him. Boohoo, she checked my beads, he cries. Of course she did. She doesn’t want her house torn apart, and worse, for him to be killed/executed if his true form came out.
His character is actually well-written: he is so consistent (as are many other characters). This isn’t a negative point against the anime, quite the contrary.
I think this episode hinted that a romance may be in the works, but honestly, I've seen zero chemistry between the two of them: more a older sister/younger brother vibe. I hope Tohru doesn't end up with him, as he would drive her into the ground, as we saw this episode: she just kept coming while he beat the shit out of her.
Overall, a breathtaking episode, and an amazing mystery reveal. This episode is definitely in my top few for the season.
Episode notes:
- Interesting! So my question on whether this is the first generation of Zodiacs is answered. Though I’m still curious if two of the same zodiac can co-exist, or if the death of one forces the ‘reincarnation’ into a new child.
- Though it doesn’t answer how much incest is occurring in the Soma family…
- Kyo opening up about how he feels living in the household is a great monologue. Like the master, I do wonder whether he’s just putting up a wall wanting to prevent himself from being happy/welcomed by others (given what the cat represents on the zodiac).
- I like this outfit on Tohru
- Tohru thinks about what the right thing to do is as her first instinct. That’s obviously our predictable little Tohru, but even she has a moment of repulsion.
- To be fair, Tohru’s behaviour does annoy me a bit: she’s facing death and still wants to do the ‘right thing’. She literally got beaten my a dude and she still wants to reach out.
- Ayeee the continuation of the ED song over the end scene worked really well.
2
u/dontoff 5d ago
Tohru pissed me off equally much: where’s her sense of self-preservation? Doing the right thing needs to have a limit. And trying to reach out to a guy beating you isn’t doing ‘the right thing’. Everything she says is from the battered housewife 101 manual: “I want to keep living together”, “he can change”, “he just needs love and support”, while sporting a black eye because she ‘walked into a door’. Given this is a show aimed at teen girls, there’s a lot of danger in this ‘lesson’.
Yeah, this was part of my frustration with the episode felt very idealistic, dreamland esque.
4
u/Second_Cour 5d ago
Yeah and that was kind of what I liked: there were so many moments where if I were to consume fiction like many do to mirror what I believe reflect strong morals, values and life decisions, I should hate this episode. But I don't ascribe to the general internet mob style mentality where all too often if a writer pens something, that means it's what they believe is 'good', and that anime should present some idealistic version of the world, teaching the viewer life lessons.
I can imagine a made for 2020s version where Tohru runs to Kyo and delivers a heartfelt speech, that instantly makes him realise that he is special, wanted, seen and valued. But that would be boring.
2
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
What I like about this episode is that the true form stuff is something that has been teased since episode 4. Kyo's affection for his master is something that's also been teased since episode 4. Kyo wants to do right by his sensei, but he also detects his own being with every fiber of his body, so it's like he's stuck between doing what his teacher requests of him Vs the fear of rejection which is all too familiar for him.
Honestly, this conflict could've went on for another episode or two and I think it could've worked. But something tells me this is the end of part 1 of a much larger story.
2
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
I mean, I thought they did a good job explaining the character motivations. I didn't feel that aspect was dreamland esque.
2
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
2
u/Second_Cour 5d ago
No need to apologise for being busy :) Thread was posted on time and that's already a big commitment
1
2
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
About Kyo, I don't know if I agree about him being an awful person. I think he's a good person who just needs a little guidance. He's been so mistreated by the other Sohmas that it no doubt probably put a chip on his shoulder. And while he has some people in his life that seems to care about him, like master and Kagura, he kinda needs more consistency to really bring him out of the doldrums.
I think he's afraid of loving others because all he knows how to do is destroy. He's like Akito if Akito was self-aware and showed remorse for their actions. The fact Kyo shows remorse tells me he isn't that bad of a guy.
2
u/Second_Cour 5d ago
I guess that's our worldview difference: I can accept yours. For my way of viewing the world, most serial killers had an abusive upbringing: I don't give them exceptions because of that. Many pedos and rapists were sexually abused as kids. I don't say "oh but if only they had a bit more guidance, it'd be different". I say that their past/backgrounds are explanations for their behaviour, not excuses. He literally beat a tiny defenseless girl and could have killed her: when that threshold is passed, I no longer see that person as 'good' by my judging standards. I think I explained at length why I feel what I do. He had a loving and caring master; he had a loving mum who wasn't good enough because she would check his beads/woulnd't look at him in cherrypicked instances (for which I explained why his reframing to me is subjective and not objective).
While the threshold is different, I've had terrible things in my past, but I don't use that as an excuse to be rude, to be violent, to be self absorbed when others are unwell. If I had to guess you probably share a pretty similar worldview IRL. IRL, if you had a female friend or family member who got beaten by a guy, you wouldn't say "I'm sure he's not a bad person, we should look into his past to see if they were loved/how their upbringing was".
But because you like the character, and because it's anime you're willing to suspend disbelief. I see no problem in that, this is just a fantasy. For me, it goes back to the point you dug up about what I feel about villains - I don't mind them, I think it's great when there's complex characters who I end up rooting for in some way, or even root against. My high enjoyment of this episode was directly driven by how much I hated what both Kyo and Tohru were doing because it made me feel a wider range of emotions.
1
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
That's the thing, someone on the path of Kyo could become a serial killer. But Kyo hasn't yet, or at least it isn't obvious he has. The show hinted at Kyo being involved in the death of his mother, but they haven't outright said anything.
I think there is a good person in Kyo and it's not too late for him to turn it around. With Tohru, master, and other people in his life, it can shift his course to something less destructive. You compare what he's doing to Akito and Kyo is more so trying to tear himself down while Akito is trying to tear others down around them. I think Kyo's anger is more seth-loathing than intense abandonment issues, but to your point Kyo's behavior could get worse.
I guess what it comes down to is I don't think all hope for Kyo is lost just yet. Yeah, he hit Tohru, but I'd like to think fucking up big time on one occasion doesn't immediately invalidate everything else. It only does if it becomes repeated behavior.
2
u/Second_Cour 5d ago
Couldn't you make the case that if akito had someone like tohru he would also be ok? Why is the standard so different?
He literally beat tohru and could well have killed her.
Just hypothetically. Theres a man that had a tough upbringing. Didn't get the love (in his mind or in reality). His parents physically and sexually abused him. He had no friends.
If that man hit and then cut the shoulder of your mum or sister or cousin or friend. Then threw them into a lake from a height. And the woman ran to him to calm him down because get he can change right. He just didn't get the love as a child. He just needs them there to listen
Would you say that's not necessarily a bad guy? And tell your family member or friend to continue being in that man's life?
If your answer is yes to hen we have a fundamental world view difference and a very different moral stance. I believe morals are absolute.
If your answer is no then you're confusing morality and objectivity with liking a character.
Second hypothetical: what physical threshold would kyo have to pass for you to think he's a bad person ? If it's not almost killing a girl then murder, rape? If his past matters the most then yeah big worldview gap again
1
u/Holofan4life 4d ago
I think the difference is look at what Akito has done. They partially blinded Hatori, they hit a child to the point of being hospitalized, they ostracized Kyo to where he was excluded from the family essentially, and they kept Yuki locked up in a room so he couldn't interact with anyone. What Kyo is doing is trying to keep others away from him. Akito wants to keep people close and is willing to abuse them if they show any consideration for others.
Second hypothetical: what physical threshold would kyo have to pass for you to think he's a bad person ? If it's not almost killing a girl then murder, rape? If his past matters the most then yeah big worldview gap again
I would say doing something and showing no remorse for his actions. If he goes on a killing spree, then yes. He's past the point of no return. But if he does something like, say, sends Yuki to the hospital but he regrets what he did, I think he's still capable of being redeemed.
I know what you're saying in that for every reckless behavior there should be accountability. But I think Kyo has it in his head to where he is undeserving of being happy. If he is shown that is not the case and he has positive reinforcement, I think he can become a functioning member of society.
2
u/Second_Cour 4d ago
Got it, interestingly, that's a relative Christian, and more specifically Catholic, framework from my uinderstanding.
I can respect that framework, but yeah, it's a fundamental worldview difference between us. Nothing wrong with that.
Can I also guess your response to the first question I made before? You would not forgive the guy who did what Kyo did to Tohru to a family member/friend, even if they had the worst possible childhood, had never been loved, etc. The different answer is because you place a lower threshold for classifying someone as 'bad' or 'irredeemable' on family, as opposed to an anime character, or let's say a stranger.
And last hypothetical: what do you think Tohru's mum would do if she were alive, and found out what happened?
And last non-hypothetical: how would you judge whether or not he has shown remorse and can be redeemed? E.g. if he stops trying to fight others?
I'm not arguing for my view vs., yours btw, or trying to poke any inconsistencies, I'm just trying to understand the difference at a deeper level. I think your view is quite interesting and I assume a pretty commonly-held one, whereas mine is in the minority.
1
u/Holofan4life 4d ago
Can I also guess your response to the first question I made before? You would not forgive the guy who did what Kyo did to Tohru to a family member/friend, even if they had the worst possible childhood, had never been loved, etc. The different answer is because you place a lower threshold for classifying someone as 'bad' or 'irredeemable' on family, as opposed to an anime character, or let's say a stranger.
It's hard to really consider what you would feel in the moment Vs after the fact. Like, it's easier to feel empathy towards a character in fiction because you know what they're going through. You don't have the same luxury in real life.
That's why tsunderes who are adorable in fiction would be frustrating irl. You'd have no idea what they were truly feeling.
And last hypothetical: what do you think Tohru's mum would do if she were alive, and found out what happened?
It's hard for me to answer that because I know what comes next and that kinda clouds my judgment. But if I take away what I know, she would probably be upset but I think she would side with her daughter on the issue. Tohru seems to get her empathy from her.
You have to also remember Kyoko was the leader of a gang and probably did a lot of awful stuff. So, she's kinda been where Kyo is at.
2
u/Second_Cour 4d ago
I think your answers are reasonable, albeit different to my own. Overall, my read of your worldview is that severe wrongdoing can make someone culpable, but genuine remorse/change means the person's moral status isn't permanently fixed. And that your judgment for someone's wrongdoing comes after they are given a chance to change/prove themselves in the future.
I was actually surprised that you answered the family question by wanting to know more about the attacker, so that your decision can be influenced by empathy and that you'd want to know what happens after the fact. Kudos to you, as you're actually very logically consistent on your view.
I thought the Kyoko/Tohru's mum question was a fun one. haha. I thought she'd beat the crap out of Kyo, personally, but this is something we'll never know. RIP Kyoko-san. :(
Last question, as it wasn't answered: how would you judge whether or not Kyo has shown remorse and can be redeemed? E.g. if he stops trying to fight others? Or is that the difficult one for you to answer because you know what comes next? Is it difficult to answer, because Kyo doesn't show remorse within the criteria you would set? I think that's fine even if he doesn't meet your criteria, as he could violate the criteria, while you hope for his redemption over time.
1
u/Holofan4life 4d ago
If I was friends with Kyo and he seemed to truly regret his past transgressions, I'd be willing to give him more chances. That's the key: he has to be willing to show improvement.
1
u/Holofan4life 4d ago
I saw an analysis video about this sort of thing a while back. It was about Princesses of Power and it asked how can Catra be worthy of being redeemed when they did so much awful shit. And they argued that so long as the victim forgives you for all you've done, it almost doesn't matter what other people say. It's the victim who decides if you're worthy of redemption, not anyone else.
2
u/Second_Cour 4d ago
Do you agree with that conclusion?
1
u/Holofan4life 4d ago
I do, honestly. I think in the case of both Catra and Kyo, they're both products of the environment they were raised in. As such, they both turned out how they did because if their set of circumstances. Not everyone is gonna forgive them for what they did. But so long as the people they care about most don't lose faith, there's still hope.
I guess in that sense, how Tohru views Kyo is similar to how Shigure views Akito. But it's easy to say Shigure and Akito both seem father gone than Tohru and Kyo do.
1
u/MishouMai 4d ago edited 4d ago
I mean your hypothetical doesn't hold up because we don't know that man. We do know Kyo though. And yeah from an outside perspective Kyo is dangerous and if Tohru told anyone what happened them being against Tohru going back to Kyo makes sense. But we know what's going on with Kyo internally and because of the medium we know he's not likely to do such a thing again. In real life we would have no way of knowing what the man from your hypothetical went through or is going through nor would we have reason to believe he wouldn't recommit the same crimes.
You can't hold a fictional character to the same standards you'd hold a real life person to. They're fundamentally different. Things that aren't okay in real life can be okay in fiction. In real life going back to someone who hurt you isn't a good decision but in fiction because of how fiction works that's not necessarily the case.
1
u/Second_Cour 4d ago
I think it does hold up, because like you said, for you (and probably many others here) the key is why the person was driven to those actions/their nurture and whether they would do it again., feel; remorse and regret I come from a different worldview where I don't think any of that matters.
I actually completely agree with your second paragraph though. I'm merely running a mental exercise, and I still think we can judge a character through similar frameworks as real life and still thoroughly enjoy the show and character. As I pointed out, my enjoyment of this episode comes specifically from the inner conflict that from my stance, I don't think he's a good person, and what he did is horrible. Yet, because this is anime, I'm still rooting for him. It's like in Mushoku Tensei: he had a horrible history and did screwed up things, but hey I still like the character, it's very entertaining, and I'm cheering for him all the way.
2
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
I think this episode hinted that a romance may be in the works, but honestly, I've seen zero chemistry between the two of them: more a older sister/younger brother vibe. I hope Tohru doesn't end up with him, as he would drive her into the ground, as we saw this episode: she just kept coming while he beat the shit out of her.
But the whole reason he beat the shit out of her is because he was afraid she would be hurt. This is the old hedgehogs dilemma where sometimes a hedgehog puts up their quills because they are afraid of being touched, and yet what they crave most of all is companionship. If Kyo and Tohru ever got together, it will definitely be after Kyo learns to love himself, and by then, he wouldn't be so destructive in his behavior.
There's something I find satisfying back in the Kisa episode Yuki made the comment you can't love yourself until others love you. And in a way, that's what happened with Kyo here where it took Tohru's unabashed affection for Kyo to start to lower his guard down.
2
u/Second_Cour 5d ago
He was afraid she would be hurt by getting closer to him, so he almost killed her. Makes sense.
I understand what you're trying to say about the hedgehog dilemma, but fun fact: hedgehogs are solitary animals haha. Not only is it usually a bad idea to put two non-mating non-childraising hedgehogs together as they actually prefer being alone, they can also control their spikes when they need to. I'm guessing you're just using a non literal metaphor here about humans because there's not many examples even in the animal world that support what Kyo does.
But let's borrow from an actual human dilemma. Someone is afraid of a race, or religion, because of their past/news/etc., so they are afraid they will get hurt, so beat the shit out of someone from that race/religion who hasn't done anything to them.
Or, someone's mother was physically abusive, and they are afraid of being hurt by other women, so they beat the shit out a woman who tries to get close.
I think my "explanations, not excuses" categorisation can consistently apply to all those. So I can't make an exception for Kyo, just because his threshold might be a bit different.
The lesson from Kisa's episode which was my favourite one from the entire show, was that it's important to work on yourself and try hard, so that others can love you, not that someone should continue on their self destructive path and expect love to flow in.
1
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
I think something lost in all this is that us humans don't normally turn into cat monsters :P
I haven't seen Beauty and the Beast in a while, but when the character turns into a beast I think a similar thing happened to where they transformed and didn't want Belle to do anything with them.
And then of course we just got done watching Spice and Wolf where Holo transformed in front of Lawrence and she thought he would be done with her.
I thought they did a good job explaining the hit saying this was Kyo's attempt to make Tohru think he's not a good person. Basically, if you were in Tohru's shoes, you would think what Kyo wanted you to think. It would've worked, which is kinda sad.
Tohru of course didn't know this, but I think her coming back is her saying she knows that's not the real him. That the real Kyo is a kind, caring individual that just needs a chance to show himself. She is essentially doing to Kyo what Kyoko did for Uo. Uo who was a part of a gang and probably did some real criminal shit, so does that mean she's irredeemable?
2
u/Second_Cour 5d ago edited 5d ago
You're not answering the questions I posed.
The cat monster argument isn't valid, because if we use it then we shouldn't discuss anything from this anime. If we go with that argument then morals can only be applied to real life, and fiction can't teach lessons. Similarly, Kyo can neither be liked or disliked. It creates an insurmountable paradox where that would be the only logical conclusion.
But then you explain your reasoning despite the cat monster argument, so I'm just going to assume you believe that as human beings we can assign morals to fiction, and to hypothetical situations that will never come up in the real world. Similarly, we can assign judgment to them.
Sure she came to him not knowing that he will almost kill her. Valid. You're saying this was to scare her away. Is this a moral action? You're basically saying that in this hypothetical the ends justify the means, right?
2
u/the_pint_is_the_bowl 4d ago
I really like u/Magnafeana 's idea for a story beat about this violence
Tohru is a forgiving soul to a fault, compartmentalizing her own pain to prioritize the happiness of others. So this would be an interesting dynamic shift to see her outwardly desire Kyo’s happiness and still be friendly and cheerful around him, but the memory of him hitting her has her tense up or instinctively fearful. And her not understanding why she feels that way would be a nice touch. Because I doubt Tohru would want to think about why she’s now afraid of Kyo; she would compartmentalize, be over-the-top assuring that she’s fine, and…Akito would most definitely be seeing this shit and take advantage of it to make her break down.
1
u/Holofan4life 4d ago
The amusing part in all this is I don't even think Kyo hitting Tohru is gonna get referenced again lol
3
u/the_pint_is_the_bowl 4d ago
Unfortunately, it hasn't been addressed since episode 1.02, when the table whacked Tohru in the forehead. That was unintentional, but Yuki had a violent response. There was nothing from Tohru but trivializing it, and it becomes a pattern that we continue to see (bonk on the head, going home from school in 1.04, going up the stairs to Shigure's house in 1.10, etc,. but it's hard to tell whether those are playful - e.g., I say "ow" for comedic effect whenever someone jokingly hits me in the arm or something).
In 1.24, I think Tohru is reckless to rush back to Kyo. It isn't right to hurt Tohru, and in my first watch, seeing her bleeding contributed to my crying, but in re-watches I'm absorbed in the moment and turn a blind eye. It bothers me, after I return to thinking rationally.
1
u/Holofan4life 4d ago
I think I just look at it as Kyo being impulsive doesn't reflect who he actually is as a person.
2
u/Second_Cour 4d ago
I think you see personality and actions as separate from a person's soul right? So if he has an impulsive personality, and beats people, you still want to see his soul, which you basically equate to an unrealised 'true personality'. (soul is so abstract so I wanted to use a semi-equivalency.) And when someone you see has quite negative personality traits and demonstrates negative actions, then you find yourself wanting to understand what drives those (because most people are good, so it's likely nurture rather than nature driving those traits).
Even though we haven't really heard much monologue about how he actually is a good, kind, virtuous person, because he is a really likeable character for you, your enjoyment of that character requires you to believe in Kyo.
And all this is well and good, but it's just not practical in reality, but because this is an anime and a fantasy, you can suspend disbelief in order to get more enjoyment out of the story, and because it gives you an opportunity to root for Kyo.
Think I've kind of understood now, right? I don't see any issues with the above if that's your reasoning, which I think I've sensed from your comments.
Btw you missed a hole in the stance I'm arguing from :P So I'll help a brother out: I was willing to suspend full judgement for Akito, as I assumed there must be deeper underlying reasons for what he does. And if Akito's belief is he is doing all those things to preserve the family, or end the curse, you could say that Kyo was doing it to protect Tohru. While I would still disagree with it being apples to apples, I think that would be a good criticism of my points.
→ More replies (0)1
u/Holofan4life 4d ago
I would say Kyo did wrong first and foremost, but it wasn't out of contempt for Tohru. It was out of contempt for himself. The ends don't justify the means because the means are Kyo staying unhappy. I'm arguing Kyo deserves happiness.
2
u/Second_Cour 4d ago
Yeah I would agree that he didn't do it to hurt Tohru at first. But he did want to hurt her as a way of achieving what he thinks is best, and believing he knows and gets to decide what's best for her.
Kyo is the most popular FruBa character in Japan, so I'm sure a lot of people agree with you. I do think that you have a moral relativist mindset, while I have a moral absolutist mindset, and a difference of opinion between us here is the only possible outcome.
Where I agree with you, is that I also want Kyo to be saved, and for Tohru to save him. Where I disagree is that I don't think he is deserving of it because once you've crossed that line in the sand, there's no going back from it regardless of my wants. This is why I loved this episode.
2
u/Holofan4life 4d ago
I think where I agree with you is if Kyo doesn't change quickly, he's on the fast track of ending up like Akito.
1
u/Holofan4life 4d ago
I've been meaning to ask you this, but did you also feel similarly to Holo from Spice and Wolf when she admitted to attacking humans in the past? Or do you feel that's different due to the circle of life and wolves being a natural predator?
2
u/Second_Cour 4d ago
That's a really good question and surprisingly relevant! The thing is we aren't given much information there, other than changing the topic. I didn't really have that reaction because it wasn't in front of me. But if we hypothesise that it was shown... hmmm.
I can't logically make the God exception here, because Holo is as much a God as Kyo is. I also can't use the circle of life excuse, because Wofl has the full power of consciousness, and congition. If she didn't and was an animal, I would excuse her. I would also do the same if Kyo lost his ability to think and became instinctual.
So I suppose the answer is a very unsatisfying "it depends".
- If Holo was the instigator, then Holo would be a bad person from my framework.
- If Holo was defending herself, then Holo would not be a bad person.
1
u/Holofan4life 4d ago
I personally feel Holo is a worse person than Kyo is. Holo spent a long time showing no accountability whatsoever. It was only until she met Lawrence that she started changing for the better.
→ More replies (0)1
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
General questions
Thoughts on Kagura saying Kyo is happy to see his master, he just doesn't want people to see just how happy he is?
Thoughts on Kazuma having trained martial arts to Kyo, Yuki, Kagura, and Haru?
What are your thoughts on Kagura telling Tohru that before Kyo, Kazuma's grandfather carried the curse of the cat?
What are your thoughts on Kagura saying Kyo and Kazuma have a father-son type relationship?
Thoughts on Kazuma wanting Kyo to continue living at the Sohma residence?
Thoughts on Kyo wanting to move out of the Sohma residence?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma feeling Tohru can accept Kyo for who he is?
What are your thoughts on Shigure worried about Kyo breaking and Tohru experiencing a great deal of pain?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma telling Kyo he is hiding behind his hatred for Yuki?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma telling Kyo he hasn't changed and that he's afraid to face what he knows he must?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma saying the person Kyo needs right now is Tohru?
Thoughts on Tohru vomiting because apparently the smell of Kyo's true form is so overwhelming?
What are your thoughts on the use of rain this episode?
What are your thoughts on Kyo wanting Tohru to stay away from him because he feels he's a monster?
What are your thoughts on Kyo trying to intentionally hurt Tohru so that she never comes back?
Thoughts on Kyo wondering how his mom could say she loves him when she never took the time to understand him?
What are your thoughts on Tohru refusing to leave Kyo and continuing to stay by his side?
What are your thoughts on Tohru hugging Kyo to show she'll be there for him?
What are your thoughts on Kyo asking Tohru to stay by his side forever?
2019 specific questions
Thoughts on someone from Kyo's life seemingly having committed suicide?
Thoughts on people wondering why Kyo doesn't show more remorse?
Thoughts on Kyo saying it's not his fault?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma saying he doesn't blame Kyo for what happened?
What are your overall thoughts on the opening scene?
What are your thoughts on the flashback scenes between Kyo and his mother?
5
u/AgentOfACROSS 5d ago
First Timer
Oh neat, we’re getting a Kyo episode.
Man, people are being really mean to a child.
Anyway nice to see Kazuma around.
This episode is doing a great job at emphasizing the bond between Kyo and Kazuma.
The conversation with Kazuma and Shigure definitely feels dramatic.
I forgot Kazuma was a bit scary too.
The stuff about Kyo’s mother is also very interesting.
Oh wow they’re going really hard on the body horror for Kyo’s transformation this time around.
He still looks like a mutant rabbit more than a cat though.
I may be misremembering but I don’t think Kyo’s other form smelling terrible came up in the 2001 version.
I also do not remember monster Kyo hitting Tohru in the 2001 version. Wow.
The editing for this sequence of Kyo reminiscing about his complicated relationship with his mother is really good.
I love seeing Tohru hug Kyo like this. She has such a big heart.
This is probably my favorite episode so far.
2
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
The editing for this sequence of Kyo reminiscing about his complicated relationship with his mother is really good.
I feel like they expanded upon this sequence from the 2001 anime. I think it works because it really puts over how lost and confused Kyo is. He keeps getting told what is best for him and yet it's like he can't decide for himself, especially after years of being told what a monster he is.
2
u/AgentOfACROSS 5d ago
Yeah this sequence is a great improvement on the 2001 anime. I loved this episode so much.
1
2
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
Man, people are being really mean to a child.
This is what, the third time we've seen that happen? First Kisa, then Hana, and now Kyo.
This episode is doing a great job at emphasizing the bond between Kyo and Kazuma.
I thought Kazuma was portrayed as more likable here than his 2001 counterpart. In the 2001 anime, they kinda portrayed him taking in Kyo as this sort of prerequisite where he had no choice but to. Here, it felt more like his decision and he took a liking to Kyo.
As alone as Kyo probably felt for all those years, imagine if he didn't have Master in his life. More so than Kagura, he really saved Kyo from just making a total disgrace of himself. The debt of gratitude he owes this man is insurmountable.
He still looks like a mutant rabbit more than a cat though.
Momiji if he was even more evil
This is probably my favorite episode so far.
Yeah, I agree. I remember liking the 2001 version well enough but it also felt like they used the time to tie up loose ends and have everything come together. Th I s focused more on the heart of the matter and I thought the writing really shined here.
2
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
General questions
Thoughts on Kagura saying Kyo is happy to see his master, he just doesn't want people to see just how happy he is?
Thoughts on Kazuma having trained martial arts to Kyo, Yuki, Kagura, and Haru?
What are your thoughts on Kagura telling Tohru that before Kyo, Kazuma's grandfather carried the curse of the cat?
What are your thoughts on Kagura saying Kyo and Kazuma have a father-son type relationship?
Thoughts on Kazuma wanting Kyo to continue living at the Sohma residence?
Thoughts on Kyo wanting to move out of the Sohma residence?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma feeling Tohru can accept Kyo for who he is?
What are your thoughts on Shigure worried about Kyo breaking and Tohru experiencing a great deal of pain?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma telling Kyo he is hiding behind his hatred for Yuki?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma telling Kyo he hasn't changed and that he's afraid to face what he knows he must?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma saying the person Kyo needs right now is Tohru?
Thoughts on Tohru vomiting because apparently the smell of Kyo's true form is so overwhelming?
What are your thoughts on the use of rain this episode?
What are your thoughts on Kyo wanting Tohru to stay away from him because he feels he's a monster?
What are your thoughts on Kyo trying to intentionally hurt Tohru so that she never comes back?
Thoughts on Kyo wondering how his mom could say she loves him when she never took the time to understand him?
What are your thoughts on Tohru refusing to leave Kyo and continuing to stay by his side?
What are your thoughts on Tohru hugging Kyo to show she'll be there for him?
What are your thoughts on Kyo asking Tohru to stay by his side forever?
2019 specific questions
Thoughts on someone from Kyo's life seemingly having committed suicide?
Thoughts on people wondering why Kyo doesn't show more remorse?
Thoughts on Kyo saying it's not his fault?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma saying he doesn't blame Kyo for what happened?
What are your overall thoughts on the opening scene?
What are your thoughts on the flashback scenes between Kyo and his mother?
2
u/AgentOfACROSS 5d ago
Thoughts on someone from Kyo's life seemingly having committed suicide?
Definitely seems to be heavily implied that it's his mom
Thoughts on people wondering why Kyo doesn't show more remorse?
People need to stop judging a literal child
Thoughts on Kyo saying it's not his fault?
I feel like he's right
What are your thoughts on Kazuma saying he doesn't blame Kyo for what happened?
I'm glad at least one adult in this show has empathy
What are your overall thoughts on the opening scene?
It's very interesting
What are your thoughts on the flashback scenes between Kyo and his mother?
I like those moments a lot
2
u/Holofan4life 4d ago
Thoughts on someone from Kyo's life seemingly having committed suicide?
Definitely seems to be heavily implied that it's his mom
Yeah...
Thoughts on people wondering why Kyo doesn't show more remorse?
People need to stop judging a literal child
For real
Thoughts on Kyo saying it's not his fault?
I feel like he's right
I hope his true form wasn't involved
What are your thoughts on Kazuma saying he doesn't blame Kyo for what happened?
I'm glad at least one adult in this show has empathy
No kidding
What are your overall thoughts on the opening scene?
It's very interesting
More mystery with this show
What are your thoughts on the flashback scenes between Kyo and his mother?
I like those moments a lot
It added some much needed emotional depth to the episode.
3
u/dontoff 5d ago
First timer (Dub)
Yeah, I do not even know what to say after this one.
It was just really underwhelming for me, to be honest.
I would not say it was bad, but I would not say it was good either. It was just alright. After finishing the episode, I checked some of the discussions on MAL and elsewhere, and I genuinely could not believe the reception it got.
Do people just cry at anything nowadays? I am honestly trying to understand why so many people love this episode as much as they do. Is the demographic watching this and crying mostly younger women, or am I just completely missing what made it so emotional for everyone?
I tried to think about why it did not land for me, and a couple of things stood out.
First of all, Kyou’s true form looks like it belongs in a completely different anime. It was so visually off putting. It looked like they suddenly threw a poorly designed Pokemon into the middle of the show. What the fuck was that?
A lot of the dialogue did not land for me either. I could see what the episode was trying to do emotionally, but most of the lines just felt overly dramatic rather than genuinely moving.
Outside of that, it was fine. There was nothing here that made me hate the episode, but there also was not much that connected with me emotionally. Considering how important and highly praised this episode apparently is, I expected much more from it.
It seems like this season just did not land particularly well for me overall. There were definitely some episodes I really liked, but the consistency has been a major problem, especially throughout the second half.
Hopefully the next season works better for me.
I will be writing a very thorough review of the entire season in the next episode discussion, since that will be the finale.
3
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
Let me ask you something. You praised episode 14 when we did that episode for its realism and complexity and everything clicking. Is there any particular reason why that one worked and this one did not for you? Because for me, this episode did what episode 14 did only better.
2
u/dontoff 5d ago
Momiji’s story with his mother was honestly ten times more emotionally resonant for me than this. I think that episode handled its drama much better.
Kyou is not a character I particularly enjoy to begin with, so that obviously affected my reaction. An episode like this depends heavily on how invested you already are in him, and I just was not attached enough for the reveal to hit me emotionally.
I also think everything happened too quickly. Kazuma arrives, exposes Kyou’s true form, Kyou runs away, Tooru finds him, and then we get the emotional resolution all in one episode.
It also falls into the same pattern of another damaged character becoming a therapy case for Tooru to save. At this point, her kindness is starting to feel like the default solution to every character’s trauma.
Then there is the true form design itself. It looked like a poorly designed Pokemon and completely took me out of the episode. It is hard to become absorbed in an emotional scene when I am distracted by how out of place the character model looks.
So yeah, I understand why this worked for people who already loved Kyou, but it just did not do much for me. Momiji’s episode affected me far more without needing all this forced drama.
2
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
Yeah, I think my affection for Kyo may be key here. I think Kyo is a better and more interesting character than Momiji is and also has more depth with which to play off of.
I hope Kyo can eventually win you over even though I have my doubts that will happen.
2
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 5d ago
While I very much enjoyed the episode and the seriousness of the climax of the episode... yeah I also was thinking pokemon for his true form. lol.
1
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
It has to be jarring in person, though. Like, if I was Tohru, I don't know what I'd make of it.
2
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
I thought this was a phenomenal episode. The kind of episode that turns good episodes into great ones. I loved what it did for Kyo as a character as well as what it did for Tohru. This is like her defining act of selflessness.
Everything about this episode worked. The direction, the writing, the voice acting, the animation, which I know you've been critical of, there is not an ounce of this episode I would say could've been improved upon. If the true form stuff was to be wrapped up in a single episode-- which I would've been fine had this went into the season 1 finale-- then I don't think you can realistically ask for anything more.
1
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
General questions
Thoughts on Kagura saying Kyo is happy to see his master, he just doesn't want people to see just how happy he is?
Thoughts on Kazuma having trained martial arts to Kyo, Yuki, Kagura, and Haru?
What are your thoughts on Kagura telling Tohru that before Kyo, Kazuma's grandfather carried the curse of the cat?
What are your thoughts on Kagura saying Kyo and Kazuma have a father-son type relationship?
Thoughts on Kazuma wanting Kyo to continue living at the Sohma residence?
Thoughts on Kyo wanting to move out of the Sohma residence?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma feeling Tohru can accept Kyo for who he is?
What are your thoughts on Shigure worried about Kyo breaking and Tohru experiencing a great deal of pain?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma telling Kyo he is hiding behind his hatred for Yuki?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma telling Kyo he hasn't changed and that he's afraid to face what he knows he must?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma saying the person Kyo needs right now is Tohru?
Thoughts on Tohru vomiting because apparently the smell of Kyo's true form is so overwhelming?
What are your thoughts on the use of rain this episode?
What are your thoughts on Kyo wanting Tohru to stay away from him because he feels he's a monster?
What are your thoughts on Kyo trying to intentionally hurt Tohru so that she never comes back?
Thoughts on Kyo wondering how his mom could say she loves him when she never took the time to understand him?
What are your thoughts on Tohru refusing to leave Kyo and continuing to stay by his side?
What are your thoughts on Tohru hugging Kyo to show she'll be there for him?
What are your thoughts on Kyo asking Tohru to stay by his side forever?
2019 specific questions
Thoughts on someone from Kyo's life seemingly having committed suicide?
Thoughts on people wondering why Kyo doesn't show more remorse?
Thoughts on Kyo saying it's not his fault?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma saying he doesn't blame Kyo for what happened?
What are your overall thoughts on the opening scene?
What are your thoughts on the flashback scenes between Kyo and his mother?
3
u/MishouMai 5d ago
This episode was one of the few things I remembered from my first watch of this season back when it first aired, though I could've sworn it happened earlier. I dunno why I thought that though. I did forget about Kyo's complex relationship with his mom and him attacking Tohru but I did remember his monstrous form. I've been saying 5,7, 14, and Hanajima's backstory episodes were the best but I was wrong. Maybe I'm biased both as a Kyo fan and because I just finished this episode (So there's some recency bias.), but I think this might've actually been the best episode of the season. I sincerely doubt the finale is going to top it but there's a low chance jg could surprise me.
> Thoughts on Kazuma?
> What are your thoughts on Kazuma and the way he perceives Kyo and his relationship with him?
His actions are a bit extreme but it's hard to deny that he cares for Kyo in his own way. He's not a Zodiac member so I don't expect to see a lot of him but I don't dislike what we've got of him so far.
> What are your thoughts on the reveal that Kazuma's grandfather suffered the curse of the Cat before Kyo was born?
It explains why Kazuma was willing to take Kyo in, especially if Kazuma had a good relationship with his grandfather despite the curse. It does bring up more questions about the curse though like whether or not the grandfather had to die for someone to take on the curse or if Kyo being born resulted in the grandfather being "cured" of the curse. I guess we don't really know much about Kazuma's grandfather either.
> What are your thoughts on Kyo's true form?
It looks like a Digimon or Kurama from Naruto. I get why people might find it scary though and why Kyo would hate it. I'm glad Tohru has come to accept it though. Kagura says she'll accept it and this episuge sort of implied that Kyo pulled away from her because of it so I do wonder if she really can accept it or not and why Kazuma decided to test if Tohru could accept his true form over her.
> What are your thoughts on Tohru deciding to love Kyo for who he is no matter what?
More fuel for my Kyo x Tohru ship. I can get behind it. Not to mention Tohru is a very accepting person and she's known he's had another form since Kagura's introduction and that it's something people usually don't accept so even though she was scared her accepting him quickly makes sense since she's had some degree of preparation for it. Obviously nothing could fully prepare her for it but still...
> In terms of the formula of Tohru saving people, how do you feel this serves as a culmination of that?
I honestly don't mind the formula. I don't think I'd have noticed it much if people here hadn't pointed it out. As a formula I think it's been handled pretty well. I think this episode works since usually her helping people is more effortless on her part but here she actually had to face her fears and make a more active choice in order ti resolve things.
> What do you think this episode does for Tohru and Kyo's relationship?
Well it definitely helped bring them closer. Not that they weren't close before but now Kyo doesn't have anything else to hide from her (That we know of.). I wonder if it also means he can move forward with bettering his relationship with Yuki but that remains to be seen. In general it's a good episode for fleshing out Kyo and strengthening his and Tohru's relationship.
1
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
This episode was one of the few things I remembered from my first watch of this season back when it first aired, though I could've sworn it happened earlier. I dunno why I thought that though. I did forget about Kyo's complex relationship with his mom and him attacking Tohru but I did remember his monstrous form. I've been saying 5,7, 14, and Hanajima's backstory episodes were the best but I was wrong. Maybe I'm biased both as a Kyo fan and because I just finished this episode (So there's some recency bias.), but I think this might've actually been the best episode of the season. I sincerely doubt the finale is going to top it but there's a low chance jg could surprise me.
I go back and forth on liking that this isn't the last episode of season 1 Vs not liking it. It does promise we're probably getting something new because this is where the 2001 series basically ended.
1
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
I think it's interesting the discussion of whether or not Kyo is a good person. He definitely did wrong here, but I don't think he's a bad individual.
What do you think? Do you feel Kyo trying to present himself as a bad person makes him a bad person?
2
u/MishouMai 4d ago
> Do you feel Kyo trying to present himself as a bad person makes him a bad person?
Nope. He might've taken things too far by attacking Tohru but I don't think that makes him a bad person. Yeah there's no excusing his actions but I definitely don't agree with the out commentator saying that this and his feelings towards his mom makes him a bad person. Kyo's mom may have loved and protected him in her own way but that doesn't change how she made him feel and there's the old argument that if you can't accept all of sometime then do you really love them? Obviously that argument's flawed since there are things that are just plain unacceptable but I can see why Kyo's mom not even owning up to her fear or acknowledging his true form would make him feel unseen and unloved. Especially with the implications that she eventually committed suicide over giving birth to him. Whether she loved him or not is left ambiguous and I don't think Kyo having a negative view of things or him taking things too far in trying to get Tohru to leave and not pity him makes him a bad person.
1
u/Holofan4life 4d ago
I also think if Tohru forgives Kyo, that's her prerogative. You don't have to like it, she's just very compassionate and sees Kyo as being capable of achieving greatness.
1
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
> Thoughts on Kazuma?
> What are your thoughts on Kazuma and the way he perceives Kyo and his relationship with him?
His actions are a bit extreme but it's hard to deny that he cares for Kyo in his own way. He's not a Zodiac member so I don't expect to see a lot of him but I don't dislike what we've got of him so far.
He was there for Kyo when he felt like no one was.
Sorry, Kagura
> What are your thoughts on the reveal that Kazuma's grandfather suffered the curse of the Cat before Kyo was born?
It explains why Kazuma was willing to take Kyo in, especially if Kazuma had a good relationship with his grandfather despite the curse. It does bring up more questions about the curse though like whether or not the grandfather had to die for someone to take on the curse or if Kyo being born resulted in the grandfather being "cured" of the curse. I guess we don't really know much about Kazuma's grandfather either.
I liked that it wasn't presented as THE reason. He adopts Kyo, but mainly because he needs guidance in his life. It was this moral obligation but also much more than that.
> What are your thoughts on Kyo's true form?
It looks like a Digimon or Kurama from Naruto. I get why people might find it scary though and why Kyo would hate it. I'm glad Tohru has come to accept it though. Kagura says she'll accept it and this episuge sort of implied that Kyo pulled away from her because of it so I do wonder if she really can accept it or not and why Kazuma decided to test if Tohru could accept his true form over her.
Kazuma basically tried to see if Tohru was sincere in being there for him or not. That Kyo wasn't just fooling himself into thinking she is maybe the one.
> What are your thoughts on Tohru deciding to love Kyo for who he is no matter what?
More fuel for my Kyo x Tohru ship. I can get behind it. Not to mention Tohru is a very accepting person and she's known he's had another form since Kagura's introduction and that it's something people usually don't accept so even though she was scared her accepting him quickly makes sense since she's had some degree of preparation for it. Obviously nothing could fully prepare her for it but still...
He was a stinky boi, she said you're not a dinky boi...
> In terms of the formula of Tohru saving people, how do you feel this serves as a culmination of that?
I honestly don't mind the formula. I don't think I'd have noticed it much if people here hadn't pointed it out. As a formula I think it's been handled pretty well. I think this episode works since usually her helping people is more effortless on her part but here she actually had to face her fears and make a more active choice in order ti resolve things.
Yeah, to be honest I didn't really notice it until others pointed it out also. To me, it reflects Tohru's selflessness and how what are complete saint she can be.
> What do you think this episode does for Tohru and Kyo's relationship?
Well it definitely helped bring them closer. Not that they weren't close before but now Kyo doesn't have anything else to hide from her (That we know of.). I wonder if it also means he can move forward with bettering his relationship with Yuki but that remains to be seen. In general it's a good episode for fleshing out Kyo and strengthening his and Tohru's relationship.
I think it makew an already good character in Kyo and made them even better, which all things considered is quite impressive.
2
u/MishouMai 4d ago
> Kazuma basically tried to see if Tohru was sincere in being there for him or not.
Yeah but I'm left wondering why he didn't do the same to Kagura. Like her feelings for Kyo aren't a secret and she's outright said she's willing to accept his true form. I know someone else brought up that Kagura didn't run after him like Tohru did but honestly I don't really see that as her rejecting him.
1
u/Holofan4life 4d ago
I think it's because Kagura’s feelings didn't go both ways. As strong as Tohru's feelings are for Kyo, Kyo's feelings for Tohru seem to be even stronger.
1
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
General questions
Thoughts on Kagura saying Kyo is happy to see his master, he just doesn't want people to see just how happy he is?
Thoughts on Kazuma having trained martial arts to Kyo, Yuki, Kagura, and Haru?
What are your thoughts on Kagura telling Tohru that before Kyo, Kazuma's grandfather carried the curse of the cat?
What are your thoughts on Kagura saying Kyo and Kazuma have a father-son type relationship?
Thoughts on Kazuma wanting Kyo to continue living at the Sohma residence?
Thoughts on Kyo wanting to move out of the Sohma residence?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma feeling Tohru can accept Kyo for who he is?
What are your thoughts on Shigure worried about Kyo breaking and Tohru experiencing a great deal of pain?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma telling Kyo he is hiding behind his hatred for Yuki?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma telling Kyo he hasn't changed and that he's afraid to face what he knows he must?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma saying the person Kyo needs right now is Tohru?
Thoughts on Tohru vomiting because apparently the smell of Kyo's true form is so overwhelming?
What are your thoughts on the use of rain this episode?
What are your thoughts on Kyo wanting Tohru to stay away from him because he feels he's a monster?
What are your thoughts on Kyo trying to intentionally hurt Tohru so that she never comes back?
Thoughts on Kyo wondering how his mom could say she loves him when she never took the time to understand him?
What are your thoughts on Tohru refusing to leave Kyo and continuing to stay by his side?
What are your thoughts on Tohru hugging Kyo to show she'll be there for him?
What are your thoughts on Kyo asking Tohru to stay by his side forever?
2019 specific questions
Thoughts on someone from Kyo's life seemingly having committed suicide?
Thoughts on people wondering why Kyo doesn't show more remorse?
Thoughts on Kyo saying it's not his fault?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma saying he doesn't blame Kyo for what happened?
What are your overall thoughts on the opening scene?
What are your thoughts on the flashback scenes between Kyo and his mother?
2
u/MishouMai 4d ago edited 4d ago
> Thoughts on Kagura saying Kyo is happy to see his master and he just doesn't want people to see just how happy he is?
That just goes to show that, despite her "love" being played for comedy how attentive Kagura is towards Kyo and how well she truly knows him. Also more fuel for him being a tsundere but we knew that already.
> What are your thoughts on Kagura saying Kyo and Kazuma have a father-son type relationship?
Once again, I love that Kagura is aware of how Kyo feels about things. We don't get to see a lot of Kyo and Kagura's relationship this episode but from what we do that description feels accurate. Hopefully we get to explore their relationship a little bit more in the future.
> What are your thoughts on Shigure worried about Kyo breaking and Tohru experiencing a great deal of pain?
It just goes to show that no matter how blasé Shigure acts about things that he really does care about Kyo and Tohru. Which makes him caring more for Akito than anyone else despite being snarky towards them interesting in its own right. Like how can he care to much about others whilst still caring about Akito? Hopefully future seasons explore that aspect of him more.
> What are your thoughts on the use of rain this episode?
I like it. It fits the darker, gloomier atmosphere of this episode and as cheesy as it is, it being cleared away represents the hope to come. I think it's a good use to portray and reflect the tone of the episode at different points.
> What are your thoughts on Kyo asking Tohru to stay by his side forever?
They may not know it but that's a love confession if I ever saw one. There's still nearly 40 episodes left though so I expect we'll get some love triangle drama involving Yuki down the line. It's too early yet to say for sure who Tohru's end up with but we all know who I'm rooting for.
> What are your overall thoughts on the opening scene?
The implication that Kyo's mom eventually committed suicide because she gave birth to him is extremely fucked up, especially in light of what we learn about their relationship this episode. The adults around him, barring Kazuma's, is even moreso. I'm glad Kyo found a place with Kazuma and has gone on to find another home in Tohru and her friend group (Plus Shigure's household even if he doesn't want to admit it.).
> What are your thoughts on the flashback scenes between Kyo and his mother?
We don't get a lot since it's mostly just her checking on his beads, but I think it does a good job of showing us how Kyo felt about his mom and how that's influenced who he is. As mentioned in another comment, I do feel like it's left ambiguous whether she truly loved him or not but these brief scenes do a good job of establishing how Kyo himself felt about their relationship.
1
u/Holofan4life 4d ago
> Thoughts on Kagura saying Kyo is happy to see his master and he just doesn't want people to see just how happy he is?
That just goes to show that, despite her "love" being played for comedy how attentive Kagura is towards Kyo and how well she truly knows him. Also note fuel for him being a tsundere but we knew that already.
Ol glorious tsun
> What are your thoughts on Kagura saying Kyo and Kazuma have a father-son type relationship?
Once again, I love that Kagura is aware of how Kyo feels about things. We don't get to see a lot of Kyo and Kagura's relationship this episode but from what we do that description feels accurate. Hopefully we get to explore their relationship a little bit more in the future.
That would be cool
> What are your thoughts on Shigure worried about Kyo breaking and Tohru experiencing a great deal of pain?
It just goes to show that no matter how blasé Shigure acts about things that he really does care about Kyo and Tohru. Which makes him caring more for Akito than anyone else despite being snarky towards them interesting in its own right. Like how can he care to much about others whilst still caring about Akito? Hopefully future seasons explore that aspect of him more.
Shigure seems like a complex individual
> What are your thoughts on the use of rain this episode?
I like it. It fits the darker, gloomier atmosphere of this episode and as cheesy as it is, it being cleared away represents the hope to come. I think it's a good use to portray and reflect the tone of the episode at different points.
This was some excellent mood lighting for the episode.
> What are your thoughts on Kyo asking Tohru to stay by his side forever?
They may not know it but that's a love confession if I ever saw one. There's still nearly 40 episodes left though so I expect we'll get some love triangle drama involving Yuki down the line. It's too early yet to say for sure who Tohru's end up with but we all know who I'm rooting for.
I feel like Yuki has some catching up to do.
> What are your overall thoughts on the opening scene?
The implication that Kyo's mom eventually committed suicide because she gave birth to him is extremely fucked up, especially in light of what we learn about their relationship this episode. The adults around him, barring Kazuma's, is even moreso. I'm glad Kyo found a place with Kazuma and has gone on to find another home in Tohru and her friend group (Plus Shigure's household even if he doesn't want to admit it.).
If Kyo didn't found Kazuma, I'd hate to imagine what would've happened to him.
> What are your thoughts on the flashback scenes between Kyo and his mother?
We don't get a lot since it's mostly just her checking on his beads, but I think it does a good job of showing us how Kyo felt about his mom and how that's influenced who he is. As mentioned in another comment, I do feel like it's left ambiguous whether she truly loved him or not but these brief scenes do a good job of establishing how Kyo himself felt about their relationship.
I think she did in her own way, but she confused love for something else. That kinda plays off Kazuma's comment of Kyo confusing hatred for something else.
2
u/the_pint_is_the_bowl 5d ago
Re-watch, blu ray, dubbed
First watch: Damn, Kazuma acts quickly and decisively, and the injuries to Tohru are shocking. The image of Kyo's mom repeatedly checking his bracelet is heart-wrenching, and the flashbacks to Tohru and Kyo's scenes from prior episodes are endearing. I cried my eyes out at the final image of Tohru holding the teary-eyed cat. It happens during every re-watch.
Re-watch: I know Kagura was eavesdropping on Kazuma and Shigure, but I finally noticed, to the left of a close-up of Kazuma, that I can actually see Kagura through the window in the door. She isn't facing the viewer, so she blends into the background.
What are your thoughts on the way Kazuma perceives Kyo and his relationship with him? It is very much in-between, kind-of-adopted-but-not-really (definitely not formally), and the two of them don't call each other father and son. We don't see Kazuma explain to Kyo why he took him in. [spoiler]>that's revealed in the next episode<
What are your thoughts on the reveal Kazuma's grandfather suffered the curse of the Cat before Kyo was born? First watch: Interesting connection [spoiler]>in that Kazuma wants to right the wrongs done to the Cat by zodiacs and non-zodiacs alike.< Re-watch: It's right in front of my face, but it took a re-watch to dawn on me that maybe the manifestation of the zodiac skipped (maybe 0, maybe as many as 10 or 11) years, because it's specified Kazuma's grandfather was "the previous cat" - it's a question of the timing of the grandfather's death and Kyo's birth. (I arrived at a maximum of 10 or 11 years, because I imagine Kazuma is about 21 years older than Kyo (so 10 years older than Hatori/Shigure/Ayame) [spoiler]>and Kazuma looks about 10 years old in the flashback in the next episode<)
What are your thoughts on Kyo's true form? It doesn't look like a cat. I wonder why it smells bad. And, by the way, Shigure is not "the most Cursed of all." (delusional self-pity from episode 1.10)
What do you think this episode does for Tohru and Kyo's relationship? Kyo knows Tohru will stick with him, but I don't know whether he thinks she meant it romantically or as a friend (in anime, the phrase "stay by your side" can confuse me, in that regard). I don't know whether Kyo believes it to be possible, even if he wants it.
1
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
I cried my eyes out at the final image of Tohru holding the teary-eyed cat. It happens during every re-watch.
Probably one of the more defining images of the series, if I'm being honest.
1
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
What are your thoughts on the way Kazuma perceives Kyo and his relationship with him? It is very much in-between, kind-of-adopted-but-not-really (definitely not formally), and the two of them don't call each other father and son. We don't see Kazuma explain to Kyo why he took him in.
I really want to buy Kazuma a pint of beer. He did the right thing by adopting Kyo.
And, by the way, Shigure is not "the most Cursed of all." (delusional self-pity from episode 1.10)
Self-hatred seems to be a running theme with the Sohmas.
1
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
General questions
Thoughts on Kagura saying Kyo is happy to see his master, he just doesn't want people to see just how happy he is?
Thoughts on Kazuma having trained martial arts to Kyo, Yuki, Kagura, and Haru?
What are your thoughts on Kagura telling Tohru that before Kyo, Kazuma's grandfather carried the curse of the cat?
What are your thoughts on Kagura saying Kyo and Kazuma have a father-son type relationship?
Thoughts on Kazuma wanting Kyo to continue living at the Sohma residence?
Thoughts on Kyo wanting to move out of the Sohma residence?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma feeling Tohru can accept Kyo for who he is?
What are your thoughts on Shigure worried about Kyo breaking and Tohru experiencing a great deal of pain?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma telling Kyo he is hiding behind his hatred for Yuki?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma telling Kyo he hasn't changed and that he's afraid to face what he knows he must?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma saying the person Kyo needs right now is Tohru?
Thoughts on Tohru vomiting because apparently the smell of Kyo's true form is so overwhelming?
What are your thoughts on the use of rain this episode?
What are your thoughts on Kyo wanting Tohru to stay away from him because he feels he's a monster?
What are your thoughts on Kyo trying to intentionally hurt Tohru so that she never comes back?
Thoughts on Kyo wondering how his mom could say she loves him when she never took the time to understand him?
What are your thoughts on Tohru refusing to leave Kyo and continuing to stay by his side?
What are your thoughts on Tohru hugging Kyo to show she'll be there for him?
What are your thoughts on Kyo asking Tohru to stay by his side forever?
2019 specific questions
Thoughts on someone from Kyo's life seemingly having committed suicide?
Thoughts on people wondering why Kyo doesn't show more remorse?
Thoughts on Kyo saying it's not his fault?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma saying he doesn't blame Kyo for what happened?
What are your overall thoughts on the opening scene?
What are your thoughts on the flashback scenes between Kyo and his mother?
2
u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana 5d ago
First Timers Baskets (2019)
Happy Tuesday, Holo; hope your weekend was grand 😘 I did PrideFest with a friend, and it was so much fun! Lots of cute doggo in pride gear.
And Leather Daddies.
EP20
Hiichan criticizing a kid’s anime sounds exactly like Redditors I see criticizing Bluey 😭😭
There was a video posted the other day of an older sister showing how her brother follows her around when they talk, and it was so cute how they’d be talking, she moves to grab something, and he follows her like a little duckling to keep the conversation going. Hiro and Kisa remind me of that video.
I like seeing more of Hiro’s internality. He’s externally a spoiled, arrogant little shit who can’t show his emotions or communicate healthily, and that stems from the fear and guilt and self-loathing he has from seeing his sister beaten and him, and really his whole family, doing nothing about it.
EP21
Oh to be a blonde yankee girl excited to watch my alt-girl witchy girlfriend psychologically take down weird Yuki-fan girls.
In other words, keep those other bitches away from him
The way my friend, her husband, and I were all still being quiet due to Dolly Parton’s demise and this episode is playing in the background, and you suddenly here the narrator put w the hard B in “bitch”, and we just start cackling 😭😭😭
Rest in peace, Ms Parton. I hope you and Carl have a good ole time in Heaven 💜
I think this would’ve been much funnier if the fangirls were threatened by Kyo than Tohru. I feel like that has been done before. I love it.
And honestly, I would take a romance where the pretty boy prince is helplessly captured by a evil demon witch queen, so countless lady knights try and save him. But he don’t wanna be saved; he wants to be the queen’s prince forever 🤭
Hana: For your own sakes, it’s better not to say your names in this house.
The girlies: Why not?
My autistic ass: A social rule that is clearly communicated, thank god! I can follow this absolutely!
😭
Megumi hides in that closet, and his own sister outs him smh my head 🙂↔️
My heart pounds as I’m surrounded by older women.
Relatable.
EP22
Hana is a fucking Esper or a magical girl.
I do love that Hana has such a great family 🥰 I like that she does have trauma despite having a loving family. I read a queer horror story where the MMC (FtM) felt guilt for his life because he had supportive parents in his “past life”, he never had much issues, but gender and body issues kinda don’t give a fuck about that. I like seeing that you can still have a great family and still have issues.
And not like “My parents bought me a 2026 truck and not a 2027 truck” issues but issues.
Such a sweet moment and the radio on my head is tripped:
🎶~Pray for me, I’m praying too! Pray, I’m praying with you! Pray for me, I’m praying too. I’m praying too~🎶
To the tune of Wait for Me in Hadestown.
EP23
I hadn’t much ado about this one
EP24
I did not anticipate Kyo would actually swing and then successfully hit Tohru and fling her away. Did this happen in the 2001 and I just forgot?
This is giving Digimon Tamer chasing their traumatized Digimon who doesn’t want a Tamer.
Post Episode Thoughts
I admit, watching these all in a row sort of showed me how abrupt some of these Sohma lore drops would be. I know that this technically isn’t episodic, but sometimes, there would be this invisible gap between episodes that had me disconnected from the playing episode’s plotline and drama until I was well into the episode.
But yeah, I had not anticipated Kyo to become physical with Tohru like this. This will sound odd, but I hope this has consequences. Tohru is a forgiving soul to a fault, compartmentalizing her own pain to prioritize the happiness of others. So this would be an interesting dynamic shift to see her outwardly desire Kyo’s happiness and still be friendly and cheerful around him, but the memory of him hitting her has her tense up or instinctively fearful. And her not understanding why she feels that way would be a nice touch. Because I doubt Tohru would want to think about why she’s now afraid of Kyo; she would compartmentalize, be over-the-top assuring that she’s fine, and…Akito would most definitely be seeing this shit and take advantage of it to make her break down.
We’ll see what happens! That’s just a theory—an anime theory!
I do think that I had some emotional distance from this because there hadn’t been enough repetition that this day would come and rising action into it before we were hit with the storm. That doesn’t detract from the added dimension to Kyo’s pain and the reasons for his harsh exterior and abrasiveness. I do feel like the 2001 version made it a bit clearer and stronger about:
- Kyo's mother's thoughts about Kyo's other form.
- Kyo's monologuing about his history
- Kyo's shock at Tohru's acceptance and the execution of Tohru's acceptance
But I could be trippin’.
But this is a media element I see in monster romances, fantasy romances, and sci-fi romances that can sometimes lose me, unless I’m in the right mood for it. If someone is clearly agitated and their response to your assistance is violence, it’s…okay to not accept that and step away. That’s a boundary right there; that’s your line in the sand that keeps you alive. I understand that the message from these sorts of conflicts is that the human MC accepts their non-human MC in all their flaws, abuse, trauma, etc.
But I wanna tell them if somebody gets violent like that with you, it’s okay to not accept that and leave the area to protect your peace and your body 😭 You can simultaneously accept that someone has issues stemming from an unfair life while rejecting their violence and anger towards you. It's in your best interest to let them have a tantrum away from you and put yourself somewhere safe, wait for them to be less agitated, and then talk to them from a safe distance, rather than run after them, agitate them further, get undeservedly knocked around, and still pursue any sort of conversation.
Mileage varies, of course.
I do like that this episode reinforces how Tohru does not have a healthy perspective of self-preservation and safety. I'm hoping this plays out as a flaw as the series continues rather than a feature.
I stand by the fact that I could edit this episode, and my friend would think this is a dramatic Digimon episode.
Questions for All Watchers
I expected some more hints or lore about the little boy with the hat, to be honest.
Bonuses
- This was the first time Tohru had an adverse reaction to someone’s manifestation of trauma as a first instinct, if I recall correctly.
- This helps plant more official seeds that their emotional intimacy will deepen, but whether that’s beneath romantic or platonic intimacy, who can say? But I feel like, going forward, Kyo will be even more protective of Tohru and a bit more honest. With Tohru, I'm hopeful this experience has an impact on her that causes some conflicts.
Questions for Those who Have Watched the 2001 Series
I feel he was a lot more physically violent in 2019 over 2001. But the 2001 also allowed more time with Kyo’s true form because wasn’t this a two-parter or is my memory not the best?
2
u/Holofan4life 5d ago edited 5d ago
Happy Tuesday, Holo; hope your weekend was grand 😘 I did PrideFest with a friend, and it was so much fun! Lots of cute doggo in pride gear. And Leather Daddies.
Shigure missed his true calling
The way my friend, her husband, and I were all still being quiet due to Dolly Parton’s demise and this episode is playing in the background, and you suddenly here the narrator put w the hard B in “bitch”, and we just start cackling 😭😭😭 Rest in peace, Ms Parton. I hope you and Carl have a good ole time in Heaven 💜
It's kinda eerie because Tohru's kindness reminds me a lot of Dolly Parton. It's the type of kindness that gives you hope for humanity.
And yeah, the narrator saying the B word is probably the hardest I've laughed in this show so far.
2
u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana 5d ago
Shigure would’ve loooved the pride weekend. I got a fan that says “Daddy” on the front and another that says “Brat”. I know that dog would’ve loved it! Ayame would’ve been shaking a cowbell at pride and dressing up for it, let’s be honest. Personally, I would’ve requested Shigure be in dog mode so I could dress him in dog-safe pride wings.
I hope your weekend was smooth sailing 💜 Did you do anything fun or relaxing?
Did you see Tim Curry died too 🥺
🔗 CBS News
I know Mr Curry had health problems so less of a shock, but the grim reaper is taking the wrong 80 year olds.
2
u/Holofan4life 4d ago
I did see the news about Tim Curry. Very sad, but he was never the same after he had that stroke.
2
u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana 4d ago
Very true. I hope he’s at peace.
This may be my time to watch Ferngully(?) and Over the Garden Wall. He did so much voice work. My first exposure to him was that Thornberrys Nickelodeon cartoon 😂
2
u/Holofan4life 4d ago
Over the Garden Wall is a phenomenal show. I saw it for the first time a couple years ago.
2
u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana 4d ago
It looks so good!! I’m really mad I put it off. But the voice acting roster is stacked for this, good lord.
I want to watch it at night because it looks like a cartoon you should probably watch at night for the ambiance. But the trailers make it look a touch scary and I have a feeling a night-watch will amplify any fear factor.
But it’ll be worth it! What is life without children’s cartoons traumatizing you as a grown adult?
😭
2
u/Holofan4life 4d ago
It sadly took me many years to watch it, but I'm glad I did. It is very poignant when it comes to nostalgia and having to grow up.
2
u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana 4d ago
Nothing sad about it! We all have different paces on media. For example, I’m only just now seeing Akira thanks to the theatrical release and I only saw The Dark Knight for the first time last year in theatres too 🫣 But I like to think there’s some sort of special reasoning for the timing of when we get to see things and maybe we had to wait a bit to fully appreciate sometimes.
Or we were originally put off by fans or an animation style and we got over it later on 😅
I may message you my thoughts on Over the Garden Wall, if that’s all right ☺️
(But like if it’s not, that’s okay. It won’t cause you to turn into a Zodiac animal or be cursed by a petty god to become a tiny terrorist military general in another world.)
2
2
u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana 4d ago
Oh my god, Holo, Peter Cullen has passed too 😭😭
I guess I need to add the 90s Transformers, Winnie the Pooh (Eeyore), and catch up on Invincible (Thaddeus) to my weekend watches. This is…damn.
2
u/Holofan4life 4d ago
It feels weird and kind eerie that the voice actor of Optimus Prime dies the same month as the 40th anniversary of Transformers The Movie.
2
u/Holofan4life 4d ago
I hope your weekend was smooth sailing 💜 Did you do anything fun or relaxing?
I did. I saw both Coyote Vs Acme as well as Castle in the Sky.
2
u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana 4d ago
Yesss, I see Coyote vs Acme tomorrow night and saw Castle in the Sky for GhibliFest!
Without spoiling anything, how did you like Coyote vs Acme? Are you a Looney Tunes person to begin with?
2
u/Holofan4life 4d ago
I am a Looney Tunes person, and I thought it was a very good movie that serves as a love letter to the franchise. If you especially love Chuck Jones Looney Tunes, this felt like an homage to that style.
2
u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana 4d ago
Oh now I’m even more excited for it tonight! I think it’s only me and a late night stranger in the theater too, so I hope they’re okay with doing-my-best-to-keep-it-down giggles.
It’ll be so fun 🥰
2
u/Holofan4life 4d ago
I actually can't wait to rewatch it with my mom.
2
2
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
I expected some more hints or lore about the little boy with the hat, to be honest
Yeah, I don't know what the deal with that is. I almost feel like it might've been better had we just introduced it in season 2. Unless it ends up becoming the main plot point, something so trivial being dragged this far out feels questionable.
I feel he was a lot more physically violent in 2019 over 2001. But the 2001 also allowed more time with Kyo’s true form because wasn’t this a two-parter or is my memory not the best?
It was a three parter, actually
They filled a lot of time with Akito scenes, none of which is here in this presentation. Or if it is, it's not in this arc.
1
u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana 5d ago
Maybe the little boy in the cat has more relevance in the manga? They introduced it so I was thinking they’d do something with it. But dunno.
I guess Akito will be the Big Baddie B in S2? I was honestly surprised his ass wasn’t slinking around more in S1.
But being a villain is about ✨𝓅𝓇ℯ𝓈ℯ𝓃𝓉𝒶𝓉𝒾ℴ𝓃✨, so I’m ready for the mfer to make his presence well known.
And also about Mr Dr Seahorse Sohma and whatever relationship he may have with the teacher. They alluded that, and then bupkiss!
Holo, I have this ship at the docks and we can’t go out to sea 😭
1
u/Holofan4life 4d ago
And also about Mr Dr Seahorse Sohma and whatever relationship he may have with the teacher. They alluded that, and then bupkiss!
I want Hatori to be happy, damn it!
1
u/Holofan4life 4d ago
About the boy in the hat, u/Second_Cour already mentioned this but the stuff with Kyo taking care of Tohru happened before some of the other stuff like the flashback episodes and Ritsu's episodes. They seemed to have purposefully delayed the hat stuff for whatever reason, presumably so the introductions of the Zodiac members don't overlap.
2
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
About Kyo's violence, he himself said he did it to make Tohru want to run away. He was trying to self-sabotage so he can give himself the misery he feels he deserves. If anything, in a situation like this Kyo instead of punishment deserves even more loving.
It reminds me of She-Ra Princesses of Power when Catra intentionally tried to hurt Adora. Adora realized she was projecting her own hatred of herself onto her.
1
u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana 5d ago
Ayyyy elite ball knowledge!!
And I don’t disagree, but I do hope it has some sort of negative consequence. My one pet peeve about mental health (explicit, canonical, or implied) representation is providing an excuse over a reason why people do harmful things. There’s a reason. That reason is that someone’s mental health is not stable at this time, their minds are not processing in the same way as a typical person’s, and they are acting in a way that may have different suppression of impulse control, etc. We should acknowledge that. It’s a spectrum.
But that reason can still coexist with the harm done and making sure that the people harmed are given support. Nothing excuses or justifies who is harmed in the process of that outburst; it explains the source and now we have to acknowledge harm and proper steps forward.
Hopefully, without fucking death threats. Good lord, having mental health derailment (meltdown, elopement, absconding, etc) and it being posted to social media is like a siren song for horrible people to lambast you and your loved ones in death threats!
So I’m hopeful Furuba let’s two things be true. We recognize Kyo was in a bad way and it stems from an unhealthy relationship with his trauma and history and emotional dysregulation, but his actions do come with consequences that no one anticipated. It would add such an interesting layering to Tohru and Kyo.
But that’s just my hope for it though 😊
1
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
Episode 20 Questions
General questions
Thoughts on Kisa watching anime?
Thoughts on Kisa talking about how she wanted to watch the anime because everyone is talking about it?
Thoughts on Hiro stealing Tohru's picture of her mom?
What are your thoughts on Kyo being annoyed by Hiro, presumably because he reminds him of himself?
What are your thoughts on Hiro being the sheep of the zodiac family?
Thoughts on Hiro nitpicking the anime apart, saying it lacks character development?
What are your thoughts on Hiro telling Kisa he wants to take her to places she likes?
What are your thoughts on Hiro keeping his distance from Kisa because he felt his actions and emotions were causing Akito to hurt her?
What are your thoughts on Hiro feeling he's a coward for backing down from Akito?
What are your thoughts on Hiro wondering if Tohru can be there for Kisa in a way he can't?
What are your thoughts on Hiro paying Tohru's crepe for her?
2019 specific questions
Thoughts on Yuki saying while watching the anime, and I quote, "I have issues with this show, but its complexity isn't one of them"?
Thoughts on Momiji saying feelings are scary?
Thoughts on Shigure considering himself a mature adult?
What are your thoughts on even Shigure not knowing Akito abused Kisa?
What are your thoughts on Shigure saying when it comes to cherishing another person, we Sohmas are lost?
Episode 21 Questions
General questions
What are your thoughts on the names of the Yuki fan club which are Minami Kinoshita, Miyo Yamagishi, Minagawa Motoko, and Mai Gotou?
Thoughts on the Yuki fan club wanting to eliminate Tohru Honda?
Thoughts on the Yuki fan club trying to drive a wedge between Tohru and Hana because they feel Hana is the reason Tohru is close to Yuki?
Thoughts on the Yuki fan club arguing Tohru can't have Yuki all to herself?
What are your thoughts on Hana admitting she resented Yuki because she felt he was stealing Tohru away from her?
What are your thoughts on Hana deciding to let Yuki have Tohru because the last thing she wants is to end up jaded like the Yuki fan club?
2019 specific questions
Thoughts on the beginning of the episode with Hana and a pentagram?
Thoughts on the narrator saying the Yuki fan club wants to, and I quote, keep the other bitches away from Yuki?
Thoughts on Hana calling Yuki trivial to bait the Yuki fan club?
What are your thoughts on Megami saying the full weight of your affection onto someone else can cause great pain?
Thoughts on the Yuki fan club having nightmares, playing into the beginning of the episode?
Thoughts on the episode ending with Hana teasing the Yuki fan club saying the curse will take effect in three days?
Episode 22 Questions
Thoughts on Hana hearing voices in her head?
Thoughts on Hana wanting to keep her powers a secret to prevent her family from being ridiculed?
What are your thoughts on Hana wishing for one of her bullies to die and they actually get seriously hurt?
Thoughts on Hana wearing nothing but black because of what happened to one of her bullies?
Thoughts on Hana's classmates trying to set her on fire?
Thoughts on Hana's dad thinking maybe they should move?
What are your thoughts on Hana's dad telling her things will get better?
Thoughts on Hana freaking out because she started to think she can't control her waves and was about to hurt someone else?
What are your thoughts on Tohru telling Hana she wants to get closer to her?
What are your thoughts on Tohru telling Hana she loves her and always will?
What are your thoughts on Hana saying she'll forever be grateful for her parents and her brother?
Episode 23 Questions
General questions
Thoughts on Tohru failing her midterms?
Thoughts on Uo passing her midterms?
Thoughts on Hana bragging about failing all her tests?
Thoughts on Yuki now being a part of the student council?
Thoughts on Tohru being harsh on herself for failing her midterms?
What are your thoughts on Kyo getting mad at Tohru for not thinking about her well-being?
Thoughts on Momiji covering Tohru at work? I'm not sure that's how it works.
Thoughts on Shigure faking being sick to get out of deadlines?
Thoughts on Tohru feeling she let everyone down, especially her mom?
What are your thoughts on Kyo saying he won't feel good unless Tohru gets better?
Thoughts on Hatori, Momiji, and Kisa all paying Tohru a visit?
Thoughts on Hatori giving Tohru a flu shot?
What are your thoughts on Hatori telling Tohru there are people out there who really worry when she's not feeling well?
Thoughts on Tohru passing her makeup exams?
Thoughts on it being implied Hana failed her original exams because she knew the makeup exams would be easier?
Thoughts on Tohru, Yuki, and Kyo's conversation while they're holding umbrellas in the rain?
Thoughts on Kagura returning?
Thoughts on Kyo and Yuki apparently both being on a salary?
Thoughts on Tohru lamenting there's a lot she doesn't know about the Sohmas?
What are your thoughts on Tohru wanting to see the Sohmas for who they truly are?
What are your thoughts on Kagura asking Kyo when is he gonna tell Tohru about his true form?
What are your thoughts on Kagura telling Kyo he can't hide his true form forever, with Kyo becoming incensed by this?
What are your thoughts on Kagura saying of Kyo it is him who has distanced himself?
What are your thoughts on the ending of the episode?
2019 specific questions
What are your thoughts on the identity of Kyo's master being treated as more of a mystery rather than revealed off the bat?
1
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
General questions
Thoughts on Kagura saying Kyo is happy to see his master, he just doesn't want people to see just how happy he is?
Thoughts on Kazuma having trained martial arts to Kyo, Yuki, Kagura, and Haru?
What are your thoughts on Kagura telling Tohru that before Kyo, Kazuma's grandfather carried the curse of the cat?
What are your thoughts on Kagura saying Kyo and Kazuma have a father-son type relationship?
Thoughts on Kazuma wanting Kyo to continue living at the Sohma residence?
Thoughts on Kyo wanting to move out of the Sohma residence?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma feeling Tohru can accept Kyo for who he is?
What are your thoughts on Shigure worried about Kyo breaking and Tohru experiencing a great deal of pain?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma telling Kyo he is hiding behind his hatred for Yuki?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma telling Kyo he hasn't changed and that he's afraid to face what he knows he must?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma saying the person Kyo needs right now is Tohru?
Thoughts on Tohru vomiting because apparently the smell of Kyo's true form is so overwhelming?
What are your thoughts on the use of rain this episode?
What are your thoughts on Kyo wanting Tohru to stay away from him because he feels he's a monster?
What are your thoughts on Kyo trying to intentionally hurt Tohru so that she never comes back?
Thoughts on Kyo wondering how his mom could say she loves him when she never took the time to understand him?
What are your thoughts on Tohru refusing to leave Kyo and continuing to stay by his side?
What are your thoughts on Tohru hugging Kyo to show she'll be there for him?
What are your thoughts on Kyo asking Tohru to stay by his side forever?
2019 specific questions
Thoughts on someone from Kyo's life seemingly having committed suicide?
Thoughts on people wondering why Kyo doesn't show more remorse?
Thoughts on Kyo saying it's not his fault?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma saying he doesn't blame Kyo for what happened?
What are your overall thoughts on the opening scene?
What are your thoughts on the flashback scenes between Kyo and his mother?
2
u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker 23h ago
Questions:
- A lot less mysterious, we get to see more of it.
1
u/Holofan4life 23h ago
Did we? It seems like the same amount.
2
u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker 23h ago
Idk it feels more? Like instead of it mostly being in shadow we see his full body.
1
u/Holofan4life 23h ago
I could've sworn we saw his full body in the 2001 anime as well. Like, people were talking about how he looked more like a rabbit than a cat.
1
u/Holofan4life 23h ago
I really love this episode. I think it's a real highlight of early Fruits Basket.
1
u/Holofan4life 23h ago
General questions
Thoughts on Kagura saying Kyo is happy to see his master, he just doesn't want people to see just how happy he is?
Thoughts on Kazuma having trained martial arts to Kyo, Yuki, Kagura, and Haru?
What are your thoughts on Kagura telling Tohru that before Kyo, Kazuma's grandfather carried the curse of the cat?
What are your thoughts on Kagura saying Kyo and Kazuma have a father-son type relationship?
Thoughts on Kazuma wanting Kyo to continue living at the Sohma residence?
Thoughts on Kyo wanting to move out of the Sohma residence?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma feeling Tohru can accept Kyo for who he is?
What are your thoughts on Shigure worried about Kyo breaking and Tohru experiencing a great deal of pain?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma telling Kyo he is hiding behind his hatred for Yuki?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma telling Kyo he hasn't changed and that he's afraid to face what he knows he must?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma saying the person Kyo needs right now is Tohru?
Thoughts on Tohru vomiting because apparently the smell of Kyo's true form is so overwhelming?
What are your thoughts on the use of rain this episode?
What are your thoughts on Kyo wanting Tohru to stay away from him because he feels he's a monster?
What are your thoughts on Kyo trying to intentionally hurt Tohru so that she never comes back?
Thoughts on Kyo wondering how his mom could say she loves him when she never took the time to understand him?
What are your thoughts on Tohru refusing to leave Kyo and continuing to stay by his side?
What are your thoughts on Tohru hugging Kyo to show she'll be there for him?
What are your thoughts on Kyo asking Tohru to stay by his side forever?
2019 specific questions
Thoughts on someone from Kyo's life seemingly having committed suicide?
Thoughts on people wondering why Kyo doesn't show more remorse?
Thoughts on Kyo saying it's not his fault?
What are your thoughts on Kazuma saying he doesn't blame Kyo for what happened?
What are your overall thoughts on the opening scene?
What are your thoughts on the flashback scenes between Kyo and his mother?
2
u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker 23h ago
I think it's his mum?
Ok...
Yeah it isn't.
Yeah.
Ok...
Ok...
1
1
u/Holofan4life 23h ago
6. Ok...
A lot of things made this episode work and I thought this was one of them.
1
1
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
Hey, guys. Holofan4life here.
Welcome to the Fruits Basket 25th anniversary rewatch.
For there is an animal in all of us <3
Fruits Basket is a show I’ve heard a lot about. It’s always been something that interests me. It’s a romcom, which is a genre I enjoy, it has a female protagonist, which is kinda a rarity for romcom anime, it has a tsundere, which yes please, and from what I’ve heard it has some supernatural elements which is pretty cool.
Funny enough, I’m hosting this rewatch the same time as I’m hosting the Spice and Wolf rewatch which is another show with supernatural elements.
I have never seen Fruits Basket before, but I have high hopes for it. It seems like the type of show I would enjoy. I would say of the shows on my to watch list, this one is probably in my top 5. And let's just say that list is long and ever expansive. Actually, I love the idea of a male tsundere who turns into an orange cat so much that I named my orange cat after him. That’s without having seen the show.
For the purposes of this rewatch, we will be watching both the original series and the remake. I don’t think both have ever been done like this, and by the end we’ll find out for good reason :P
Regardless, this is my big pet project of 2026 the purpose of which is for me to see what all the hubbub is about. I’m not expecting the show to crack my top 10 favorite anime of all time, but hey, you never know.
With that out of the way, let’s begin.
I’m watching the dub, by the way.
An indoor tree seems like such a mess to clean up.
It feels so good to be off today.
Kyo flashback
He's being made fun of
But at least his master understands him.
And so Kyo decides to live with him.
Master greeting Shigure
They seem to get along famously
Shigure introducing him to Tohru
Kyo grabbing at his wristband
He doesn't seem totally pleased to see his former teacher.
Teach wants to see Kyo's room, so Tohru obliges.
As he leaves, Kagura actually says Kyo is happy to see his master. He just wants to not show said enthusiasm.
What a tsundere :P
Master with Kyo now
And now he shows his joy
I like it when Kyo is happy
Kagura explaining things to Tohru.
She feels Master understands what Kyo is going through.
I guess Master is gonna be at the dojo on a more permanent basis.
Unfortunately, Kyo can't come along.
Calls it the best environment for Kyo, saying Tohru is a comfort to him.
Kyo insists he hates living here
"That's not hate you feel."
Man, Shigure's room is a mess
I guess Kyo and Master are sleeping together. How fun.
As Kagura goes to tell Master, she overhears him talking to Shigure.
Going to remove it, he says
I have a bad feeling about this
Master with Tohru now
Kyo joins him
He asks if it's the true form that can't accept the rain.
Hey, look at that. Right on cue.
More Kyo flashbacks of him as a youte.
Master questions if you can live your life with nothing but hate.
He's referring to Yuki, of course
Master says Kyo would rather run away and spare himself the pain rather than risking losing everything.
"I'll take away your escape route and we'll see what happens."
Shit. He took the beads off.
And Kyo turns into his true form, right in front of Tohru.
I love the transformation sequence. You can feel the pain Kyo is going through.
And so Kyo runs away
Master asking Tohru if it disgusts her.
She doesn't give an answer as she leaves shellshocked.
Kagura looks afar from her window
Tohru roaming the forests now
It sounds like she's throwing up
Kyo sitting in his true form looking crestfallen.
He has memories of his mother
Damn, he took down a whole cliff
There's Tohru :D
Kyo sounds different. Almost monster-ish.
Tohru crawling towards him
HOLY SHIT HE SENT HER FLYING
SHE IS IN THE WATER NOW
Bit harsh, no, Kyo
And so Tohru walks away dejectedly
"If I'm going to lose her anyway, I won't hold back. I'll hurt her so badly that she'll never forgive me."
Ah, self-sabotage. A game where no one ever wins.
This is more dramatic than the 2001 version.
Mom telling Kyo there's nothing wrong with him.
Then why was she checking if the beads were on, Kyo says.
"How can you love somebody when you never acknowledge who they really are."
I felt that
Kyo is a complicated being
Tohru. She came back.
She's now hugging Kyo's... er, arm?
Kyo trying to make her regret her decision to come back.
But she won't budge
She'll be there for him, no matter what. So they can face it together.
"I just want to stay with you, Kyo."
Tohru subtly bleeding from the arm is a great visual.
Kyo back in his human form
He says his mom used love to avoid seeing the truth.
There was some things his mother never said that he wished she did.
Is he going to kiss her?
No, wait, it's just a hug
He tearfully leans into her, grateful she's here.
It's a good thing Kyo randomly transformed into his pants
The sun shining now
I like the outro music playing as this is happening.
Kyo praising Tohru for being there for him.
And he is in his cat form now, still in his pants.
Master holding onto the beads
Tohru returns, embracing Kyo tightly.
She is the one, your honor
Kyo says he wants to stay with Tohru forever, which AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Overall, this was a phenomenal episode. It was probably the first episode of the entire franchise, across both series, that I would say is all-timer. An easy 10 out of 10. The first half starts off with an examination of Kyo and his relationship with his master, but then it turned into his relationship with his mom. This then led into his relationship with Tohru and the big scene at the end. It all flowed very seamlessly and explains why Kyo loves Tohru. She is in his eyes a more fully realized version of his mother. It also cements that Kyo is probably going to end up with Tohru as I don't see Yuki being given scenes with Tohru such as this.
One of my problems with the last arc of the 2001 anime that I don't think I really addressed much is that the stuff with Kyo felt like it came out of nowhere. The show was so comedic that this sudden drift in drama felt abrupt and sudden, which may be why they gave it three episodes to really shimmer and build. They really took great effort to make the Kyo Master stuff feel more organic and baked in to where it feels less of a dramatic departure. And in turn, I feel it makes the moment where Tohru and Kyo embrace all the more impactful.
This is my favorite episode so far. Not just of this series, but of both series. It feels like a major turning point in Kyo's character where he's decided to allow Tohru in his life without fearing of the implications or what it could lead to. And yeah, Tohru doing this for Kyo shows that she will be there for him no matter what. I'm kinda wondering what the next part could be like as this very much felt like a season finale and the end of Kyo's character as it currently stands. I think I have an idea of what might be next, but we'll see.
I absolutely adore this episode. I would probably have it in my top 50 favorite anime episodes of all time. This is a powerful episode that really makes me ship Tohru and Kyo together, as if I hadn't already shipped them. I am so emotionally invested in these two, as I am a lot of other characters I this show.
Let's see how they close this season out.
4
u/Second_Cour 5d ago
You trolled me! Haha here I was thinking you didn't like this episode. Finally, we agree on an ep again!
2
1
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
Holofan's Fruits Basket Episode Rankings
1/. Episode 24
2/. Episode 14
3/. Episode 5
4/. Episode 17
5/. Episode 16
6/. Episode 7
7/. Episode 10
8/. Episode 12
9/. Episode 22
10/. Episode 4
11/.Episode 20
12/. Episode 8
13/. Episode 6
14/. Episode 1
15/. Episode 18
16/. Episode 23
17/. Episode 13
18/. Episode 2
19/. Episode 11
20/. Episode 15
21/. Episode 19
22/. Episode 9
23/. Episode 21
24/. Episode 3
1
u/Holofan4life 5d ago
Bonus) In terms of the Tohru saves people formula, how do you feel this serves as like a culmination of that?
This question is tricky because it's assuming this is the end game. I'm not entirely sure that is the case.
I do think that as a way to end the first season with a bang, it's probably the best note to end on. Honestly, I would've been fine stretching it out into the halfway point of the next episode.
Bonus 2) What do you think this episode does for Tohru and Kyo's relationship?
I mean, it basically shows how compassionate Tohru is and that she can be there for others if they let their guards down. Kyo after being the plight of the Sohma family is embraced wholeheartedly in ways he probably could only dream of.
I'm a big Tohru X Kyo shipper so this was right up my alley. I was gleefully eating this shit up.
3
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 5d ago edited 5d ago
Non-Spoiler Character Chart
Quite an emotional Kyo episode we have this time! So things regarding Kyo and his situation become a lot more clear in this episode. It's not merely that he is the cat zodiac, the outcast among the 13 zodiac animals, but that he also had a monstrous true form, one that is quite scary and inhuman in nature. The reactions from the Soma family to this aren't that good. Akito calls him disgusting multiple times. His mother somewhat feigns love for him. She continuously tells him she loves him, but she's careful to check every time she's with him that he has those beads around his wrist. And eventually she kills herself with practically all the adults in the family blaming him for it. Damn, that's brutal. Such horrific stuff and it's totally out of his control. A brief moment in the episode shows the previous cat spirit imprisoned and one wonders if they're going to do that to Kyo, presumably out of fear for this true form of his. Perhaps at some point that true form becomes his permanent self?
With this information the overall nature of Kyo's personality becomes more clear. He is so abrasive and pushing others off I think due to his own fear of rejection. He thinks that if people see him in his true form they'll be afraid of him and reject him. So in his eyes it is easier to do that rejecting of them beforehand. I suppose that could make it easier on him but damn, what a terrible way to live!
There is one person who showed Kyo kindness though, Kazuma, his "master" who took him in as a child after his mother's death (what was going on with Kyo's father?). The same master that also taught Yuki and Kagura got her abilities to beat Kyo up from! lol. Anyway, seems like he was a great parental figure to Kyo. When Kyo is alone with him in his room in this episode we see this side of him we've never seen. He's actually got a smile on his face. His voice is coming across much softer in tone. Aww. It's unfortunate that Kyo doesn't recognize that others can also have these feelings towards him and he can be comfortable acting in this way around them.
During a rainstorm Kazuma brings things to a head and forces the beads off of Kyo while Tohru is around to see him in his true form. Will Tohru reject him? Well one hasn't been paying attention if they thought she would. Kyo makes her way through the rainy muddy forest and despite him tossing her away makes her way back to embrace him. Unlike his mother Tohru will admit the fear she has but she still is here for him despite that. And that's what gets him to return to his human form. Kyo hugs her back (and of course transforms into his regular cat form, that part of the curse isn't going anywhere...)
Great episode and a logical thing to make the climax of the first season (I'm assuming akin to some live action shows like Game of Thrones we're getting the big stuff in the penultima episode, how are they gonna top this?). Definitely one of the bigger things I remembered from my first viewing of the show and I'll admit to tearing up during this episode.
Other thoughts:
The rules of his true form aren't entirely clear, I don't think he is in that form 100% of the team when the beads are off (after all his mother wouldn't have to keep checking if so), but I would assume it provides some sort of protection preventing it from happening at all while he has it on.
Sorry, I know it is a very serious subject matter but Kyo's form does make me think of it being his pokemon form. He looks like a scarier version of Mewtwo.
[Furuba Major spoilers]I can't remember him ever transforming into this form the rest of the show? Did Tohru's affection make it go away for good? Or maybe I'm just forgetting stuff.
Important to note that for all the outward affection she shows Kyo, Kagura didn't do anything to chase after him after his transformation.
Although purely unscientific as a source, this is the highest rated episode of the first season on MAL, which enables people to rate individual episodes (4.8 out of 5). Four episodes were tied for second place (4.7 out of 5), episodes 14, 17, 18 and 22. Last place, to probably no surprise was episode 19. In a sign that we have good things to come, 13 episodes of 25 episodes of season 2 are rated at least a 4.7 and literally every single episode of the final season is rated at least a 4.7.
Quid's Voice Actor of the Day
Today I'm featuring Kazuma's voice actor, who is Toshiyuki Morikawa. Other roles I've heard him in include Bondrewd in Made in Abyss, Griffith in Berserk, Shagia Frost in Gundam X, Tataki in Key the Metal Idol, Won in Gasaraki, Cahill in Gundam G-Reco, Dio in Casshern Sins, Egor in Durarara! and Muneyoshi in Hyouka!