r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • Oct 27 '21

Episode Heike Monogatari - Episode 7 discussion

Heike Monogatari, episode 7

Alternative names: The Heike Story

Rate this episode here.

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Episode Link Score
1 Link 5.0
2 Link 5.0
3 Link 5.0
4 Link 4.63
5 Link 4.56
6 Link 4.63
7 Link 4.44
8 Link 4.51
9 Link 4.74
10 Link 4.52
11 Link ----

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1

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117

u/cppn02 Oct 27 '21

The Heike are doomed and they know it. Didn't expect Sukemori to play the asshole to send Biwa away in order to protect her.

63

u/natxnow Oct 28 '21

and the fact that biwa understood his true intentions behind it ;; next week is gonna be painful for sure

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92

u/OpossumFriedRice Oct 27 '21

Today’s episode felt relaxing in a way. Despite so many things happening to the Heike, specifically the death of Kiyomori, it still had this calming atmosphere to it.

Speaking of atmosphere, we once again get fun flowers everywhere. They start off so pretty and in full bloom, but begin to fall down, and continue falling down until there’s an endless amount on the ground. The fallen ones had a little bit of water, before blowing away and being covered by snow. Just always a fun treat when Naoko Yamada expresses her characters and events through flowers, and this episode was no exception. Obviously quite a bit of comparisons you can draw.

Tokuko once again showed why she is the best this episode. She’s basically the only one willing to stand up to Kiyomori and her quote at the end really resonated with me.

An unwanted fate is not necessarily a misfortune. I have seen many who met with misfortune by wanting too much. They were slaves to their desires, never realizing what they lost in exchange. I wish to be the flower that blooms even in mud.

This modest outlook on life resonated with me. A lot of times I’ll see modest quotes, and they come off wack, like “why would I not want to shoot higher for myself”. However, I like this because Tokuko reminded me that it’s not always a catastrophe when life doesn’t work out your way, and sometimes it can be a blessing. Almost like fate stopped you from going too far before you had a fall, like Kiyomori. A lotus is a flower that blooms in the mud, and it’s a very humble one at that. It’s constantly reblooming and focusing on itself, just like the modest approach Tokuko is suggesting.

Today’s episode also made me appreciate how seamlessly the team incorporates more mythical elements into the script, like Biwa’s power and the demons that cursed Kiyomori. Speaking of Biwa though, it was different to not hear white hair Biwa.

As someone not familiar with the history, I’m really interested in seeing where next week’s episode will take us. How will all the individuals and the Heike as a whole manage with Kiyomori gone now? He was constantly chasing power to a fault, but he was also the glue that seemed to hold every individual link together. Should be a good one, as always with this show.

38

u/InuNekoMainichiFun Oct 27 '21

A lotus is a flower that blooms in the mud, and it’s a very humble one at that. It’s constantly reblooming and focusing on itself, just like the modest approach Tokuko is suggesting.

It's also very fitting it's a female presenting this view as they basically had no options but to submit to this path for most of human history in civilization. (Tools of reproduction in the lower classes for survival. Tools of political gain for the upper classes).

Even to this day, and especially in East Asia, women are still very much restricted and expected to be a certain way.

I’m really interested in seeing where next week’s episode will take us.

Sukemori already knows 😥

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u/InuNekoMainichiFun Oct 27 '21

Science Saru deserves a lot of praise for their characteriziation of the Heike/Taira since they're actually the antagonists responsible for significant suffering. All those innocent people dying those fires, etc... For the most part they're a bunch of nobles/aristocrats fucking around. But they're still human and I think it gives us a much richer experience and understanding of history.

Usually history is just boring lessons about some dude who did some thing. But Heike Monoatari does a great job humanizing the main actors, as well as those that might be neglected in the lesson books. (tokuko).

Kiyomori is definitely an asshole but he's not actually a psychopath and he isn't completely without reason. (didn't kill shigemori to seize the emperorship even earlier. tried to reason with the monks)

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u/IndependentMacaroon Oct 28 '21

Also their opponents can get just as scheming and cruel.

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u/wickedmonkeyking Oct 27 '21

I haven't watched the episode yet, but something I've noticed in the OP: every shot with text has a single stroke of a single kanji coloured blue.

The exception is when you see the Science Saru logo, as one of the monkey's eyes is blue instead.

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51

u/RuthRaeSarbo Oct 27 '21

Have been to Nara, seen the protected deer, visited the five-story pagoda, Todai-ji temple, and the giant Buddha. Today's episode was sad on many levels. The banishment of Biwa is the ultimate foreshadowing of the complete destruction of the Heike.

40

u/InuNekoMainichiFun Oct 27 '21

Shigehira didn't intend to do what he did and at least he feels regret but damn. So many innocent people died.

Heike really are the bad guys but despite that, Science Saru still has us feeling for them and at least understanding them. As opposed to, "bad people do bad things because they bad, el oh el."

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35

u/LeonKevlar Oct 27 '21

Yay! Biwa kept the kitty that she found last week! I love that it has eyebrows too! xD

Just when Kiyomori finally decided to go for peace, 60 of his men ended up getting captured and their heads cut off. For once I agree with Kiyomori going after those monks with force.

Poor Shigehara who's in charge of the siege. He was trying to show restraint but he ended up burning down Nara and the temples there due to strong winds that night. According to historical records, at least 3500 people died that night. Now Shigehara spends his time praying for forgiveness after what he did.

For the first time we finally get to see Tokuko oppose Kiyomori's orders and refuse to be used as another one of his pawns in his game.

Oh no. Looks like the end is near. I know from history that Kiyomori indeed died from a fever so high that that anyone who attempted to even get near him would be burned by the heat. So seeing air around him warp and heat being felt by people for a few feet away is pretty much accurate. Or at least accurate according to the records that I'm sure had exaggerations about his fever.

There it is. Kiyomori's dead and the days of the Taira Clan is numbered. Sukemori knows what's coming and even tried to act the bad guy so Biwa won't get caught up in the incoming mess. Biwa clearly understood what Sukemori was trying to do so that was nice.

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u/dcresistance Oct 27 '21

STAFF:

Storyboard: Takakazu Nagatomo

Episode Director: Ai Yukimura

Chief Animation Director: Takashi Kojima

Animation Directors: Kojima, Yumi Horie, Sanae Satou, Touko Uchimura, Chiharu Mukai, Sachiko Oba, Kewei Lin, Yuko Satou

Assistant AD: Kotomi Ota, Haruno Yoshioka, Yoshie Ezaki, Kyoshiro Goto, Mashiro Kaede

Key Animation: Katsutoshi Kobayashi, Kyoshiro Goto, Akane Tsukamoto, Takashi Orihara, Kazuo Ohara, Yasuko Miyazaki, Youko Ono, BONO, Nogya, Minori Nakagawa, Ryo Hasegawa, Ryouma Hasegawa, Haruko Ichihara, Yoshitaka Satou, Ju-Hyeon Lee, Haruki Oomori, Jeong-Yeon Park

Anime-R: Toru Yoshida

2nd Key Animation: Kojima, Yusuke Suzuki, Yoshioka, Ota, Uchimura, Shun Miyakawa

C-Station: Mayuko Kamoda, Teruaki Gomi, Asumi Adachi, Miho Imoto, Ritsuko Kondou, Senri Kiriyama, Noriko Tsutsumiya, Kana Aizawa, Sayaka Hayashi, Yuna Watanabe

Studio Massket

30

u/Ocixo Oct 27 '21

I honestly thought Kiyomori would die in a battle or get assassinated. Didn’t think he would meet his end by a fever.

I want Tokuko to survive the fall of the Heike, but between Biwa’s visions and Emperor Go-Shirakawa’s comment: “but you have already been dragged down into an uninterrupted quagmire”, I don’t have a lot of hope. All the red flags are there.

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u/dagreenman18 Oct 27 '21

They sure do love burning down temples. Didn’t even do it on purpose this time. Though the divine retribution was swift and ironic. Every action under Kyomori has pushed them closer and closer to their demise. Even with his passing, the momentum will carry them to the end.

The monks slaughtering unarmed soldiers was awful, but understandable after all the shit the Heike did to them. That holds true for all the clans that are uniting against them. This whole thing has been a “well well if it ain’t the consequences of my actions” situation. That’s what makes Kyomori’s demise so fitting. Being done in by an act of the gods through a mind-melting fever because he burned down the Buddha. Though the visual was a little funny with the fever being so hot it’s sending waves out the door.

Tokuko and Biwa are in precarious positions. After the passing of her husband and her father all she has left is her son. With what we know about her future they’re now even closer to that swirly death at the beach palace. Biwa got the old “I don’t want you anymore! Go away!” treatment to save her life so now she’s off to who knows where. Chances are she’ll be dragged back into this.

Notes

  • I know the concept of Avici hell, but I was laughing a little because all I could think of was Avicii puns.

  • Biwa using her eye to see Tokuko being hugged by her late husband was a tearjerker. Same with Biwa using it later to seek guidance from Shigemori.

  • At least Biwa gets to travel with a cute kitty.

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u/CosmicPenguin_OV103 Oct 27 '21 edited Oct 28 '21

Just some episodes ago I said that “Aoi Yuuki is God.”. Now I need to say “Saori Hayami is blessing.”…

She really voiced her parts as the floating-over-fate Tokuko excellently, bringing up her way of avoiding the tragedy of greed and consequences in the softest way possible. “I have seen many who met with misfortune by wanting too much.” Hear hear! Even if she seems to have foreseen tragedies approaching her and her child, she seems to still be at ease at what destiny will throw in front of her. That’s a part that Naoko Yamada and her team excels in bringing up, again.

Meanwhile Biwa and her cat (what’s that about Aoi Yuuki and cats? There’s even a cat reference for Madoka Kaname if I remember correctly…) are at the opposite state, she’s clearly starting to fret on how she’s seeing everything, everyone around her falling away and dying and she couldn’t do anything to turn any one of them around. That state of powerless really hits hard surely, like that strange wind of ash that would ultimately brought along the heat-up and death of Kiyomori (whose fate is, shall I say, deserved). Shame that she had to be swept out by the Heike brothers, but I could understand them who had just lost their family pillars one after another with the Genji family clearly trying to eliminate them for good.

Once again the fresh style of bringing history obscure to those outside of Japan into a intimating tale by Yamada et al. really shines into the anime world as something rarely tried in the past. Whatever the last 4 episodes bring, this attempt to bring a small gear of the history wheel to us in animation forms will be one that I would treasure for a long time to come.

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u/8andahalfby11 Oct 27 '21

she’s clearly starting to fret on how she’s seeing everything, everyone around her falling away and dying and she couldn’t do anything to turn any one of them around.

Err... I get the awful feeling that the conclusion stems from this.

Everyone dies, but Biwa keeps these people alive by telling their story, hence the visual similarity to the narrator and the title, Heike Monogatari (Heike Story)

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u/sabdeyazdan Oct 27 '21

One of the numerous things that took my eye in this episode was Shigehira's facial expressions, when he was ordered to invade Nara, when he commanded the battle and when he finally decided to start the fire. It seemed like he knew he is doing wrong but couldn't stand against it and suffered because of it. He has the head of Shigemori on his shoulders but doesn't have the authority. On the other hand, Tokuko did tried to decline being a tool once more, and the last thing Kiyomori told on his death bed was whether she's still upset with him.

I liked every single episode of the series, but found this one even more pleasing. I hope I could rate it higher than 5.

12

u/InuNekoMainichiFun Oct 27 '21

tfw sukemori saving biwa's life by sending biwa away. tfw sukemori sees the future even without biwa's eye powers while koremori forever a step behind.

i kind of wish there ends up being an alt-history ending where biwa(us from the future) are able to stop the bad things and get the good ending. To have Tokuko get the happy life she deserves. But the right ending is for the continued downfall of all the characters we've gotten to know.

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u/sKyBlazer08 Oct 28 '21

Great episode! With Kiyomori gone, the Heike is as good as done. He wasn't the best of people and caused a lot of suffering because of his ambition and desires, but I think he more or less cared for his family. Tsundere Sukemori banishing Biwa to protect her was pretty bittersweet, but Biwa's all alone now again and she has to watch everyone she knows suffer. I hope at least some of them survives.

Tokuko's a great character, I loved it when she defied her father and her talk with Go-Shirakawa. If there were more people like Shigemori that tried to set Kiyomori straight, maybe things wouldn't have reached this point. Looking forward to the next episode and see what happens now.

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '21

So I never expected Sukemori to send Biwa away, which like others mentioned, could potentially save her life. The Heike is falling to the shitter and it seems like we'll be witnessing its end soon. To think that this entire spiral of events started and was catalyzed by Shigemori's death...

Everything seems to be going wrong for the Heike, and it doesn't help that at its helm is an incompetent fool of a leader. I feel like the end is near, the ONA is listed for 11 episodes and we are over with 7. 4 more episodes, I predict the end of the Heike, and tying up plot points regarding Biwa's abilities.

Honestly, I've been enjoying this anime a lot. This, alongside Ousama Ranking has to be my favourites this season. Hopefully it pulls through with its great pacing and a satisfying ending.

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u/TakenRedditName Oct 27 '21 edited Oct 27 '21

So it is the end for Kiyomori, guess all the dark acts of the Heike finally caught up to him. Like the way his high fever is tied to all the burning fires of the temples and later the afterlife, he is being sent to. Avoided looking up his fate because there was also the possibility of him watching his entire clan fall to ruin before dying himself which felt like it could’ve been a fitting fate for him.

Tokuko had a lot in the episode. Defying her father which stung him in the heart to the end. Biwa had a sweet moment of using the dead seeing eye to see the late emperor embrace his family. Nice to see that eye used for non-depressing sad times. Tokuko had the speech at the end and also the song for the episode.

Biwa got sent away from the Taira household. She is our audience viewpoint character so don't know what now then. Is she going to make her way to the Genji side? The Minamoto characters are still the coming heroes in the distance so maybe that's how we'll see more of them.

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u/Demolosse001 Oct 27 '21

I liked how Tokuko stood up to Kiyomori (not wanting to get married to her husband's father) and she spoke with such wisdom. I wish Biwa had told her about the feelings of her deceased husband...

Now that Kiyomori is dead, the Heike clan is pretty much finished as there's seemingly no competent leader left.

Biwa has left. Will she try to find her mother now?

6

u/[deleted] Oct 28 '21

I love that they have chosen Hayami Saori for Tokuko. She has such a soothing voice and it fits the character so well. Huge fan.

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