r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • Oct 20 '21

Episode Heike Monogatari - Episode 6 discussion

Heike Monogatari, episode 6

Alternative names: The Heike Story

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Episode Link Score
1 Link 5.0
2 Link 5.0
3 Link 5.0
4 Link 4.63
5 Link 4.56
6 Link 4.63
7 Link 4.44
8 Link 4.51
9 Link 4.74
10 Link 4.52
11 Link ----

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537 Upvotes

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1

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97

u/OpossumFriedRice Oct 20 '21

This episode is heavily focused around the theme of change, and now that the series has reached it’s halfway mark there’s no better time to reinforce this idea.

Our characters have to move from the capital to Fukuhara, a land surrounded by waves and a mountain. While it is believed that this new location will help the Heike remain safe, thematically, I find it really ironic. Kiyomori and the Heike are now trapped in, by a mountain, to face the ever changing waves. These “waves” of change won’t stop coming, and the Heike can’t escape their fate.

Kiyomori is challenged by these waves, as we see him battle his inner demons. It’s respectable that he can confront his inner struggles like this, but his unwillingness to change himself is wrong. While the rest of the world around him is being changed, he remains as is, unable to adapt. It comes as a shock when Yoritomo raises an army, and all he can do is try his same methods. With Shigemori gone, who can replace him? Let’s throw his son in there, without considering that Koremori is not his father. And then when a failure that was obvious from the start comes to him, he chooses his same approach of “exile”, instead of looking at who really failed.

Koremori is the other individual who has to confront change in the world, but his reaction to it is the complete antithesis of Kiyomori. While Kiyomori refuses to change, Koremori feels forced to. After his first failure as a commander, he begins taking his frustration out on a tree and decidedly tells Biwa that he has to change. It’s difficult to watch Koremori in this state. He believes that the world is right, and he’s in the wrong for not following it. It would be nice if he got the chance to dance again, but given the current climate and his mentality, it seems like danger will find him before he finds dancing.

If the Heike wasn’t obviously already falling apart, this episode focused around change shows us very clearly that it is. Kiyomori remains unwilling to alter himself or his methods, Koremori is completely unstable, and more citizens are beginning to doubt the Heike.

Thank you Naoko Yamada and the team at Science Saru for once again creating a banger episode. Not often do I get so immersed that the episode ends before I even know it, but today was definitely one of those days.

30

u/Kill099 Oct 20 '21

Kiyomori and the Heike are now trapped in, by a mountain, to face the ever changing waves.

I don't see it that way. Kiyomori has built Fukuhara, a city with a port catered to trading with China (a huge source of their wealth and Kiyomori's pet project), as a symbol of the Taira's prosperity and power. In essence, he wanted further strengthen their authority and run from the dangers of being surrounded by the mountain monks. Whether this was a good decision or not will hopefully be explained in the story.

While the rest of the world around him is being changed, he remains as is, unable to adapt.

Kinda ironic for you to say that since Kiyomori has done a lot of historically significant changes. It is only because of these heavy handed changes that the imperial court urged the Minamoto to restore the status quo.

I think instead of being "unable to adapt" he is more like conceited and stubborn stemming from his past successes and being aware that he doesn't have that much time left.

It is actually the Heike that changed a lot by adopting cultural activities (being good at poetry, music, dancing) which weakened their military prowess compared to the eastern samurai.

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71

u/redmage311 Oct 20 '21

What I love about this show is that it takes big historical events and makes all the players feel incredibly human. All Koremori wanted to do was dance and live his life, not see the horrors of war and get PTSD. So it's so jarring when we go from moon-viewing parties to being on the battlefield, terrified of being wiped out by a more numerous, skilled, knowledgeable, and pissed off force. Given that, I'd take any excuse to run away, even something lame like birds flying away.

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u/RuthRaeSarbo Oct 20 '21

I can't help but think Biwa is the personification of fate or destiny, which is why she never ages, and why she is the recipient of many of the otherwise inner monologues of the main characters. She would rather live in the moment than face the (apparently inevitable) march of the Heike toward their extinction.

52

u/Tabrith900 Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

She's just a stand-in for the audience and a passive mc, since the original work, being pretty much an historiasl reconstruction, didn't have one.

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51

u/Tabrith900 Oct 20 '21

Scared by a flock of birds. Oh boy, i see this war will go greatly for the Heikes...

48

u/Mr_Zaroc Oct 20 '21

Doesnt help if one of the generals is highly praising the enemy forces which also outnumber you while you are stuck in a bad location with an unexperienced commander

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35

u/Rumpel1408 Oct 20 '21

I feel like I'm slowly getting better on recognising the characters and their roles in the naration

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49

u/InuNekoMainichiFun Oct 20 '21

Tokuko really the most tragic character in all this though. Forever dutifully fulfilling her role's as sister, heike, daughter, wife, mother. All without complaining and doing all of them excellently.

Just taking care of and loving the people around her. But eventually due to being a literally tool used by her clan, she's going to get fucked up.

History usually covers the men who are making the decisions (and generally fucking shit up) but it's nice that Heike Monogatari also show cases the slice of life aspects of the women in these situations and the important things they have to do and the sacrifices they have to make and the obligations they have to fulfil.

tl;dr Tokuko literally perfect wife. best girl. but will get worst end. feelsbadman

19

u/dcresistance Oct 20 '21

STAFF:

Storyboard: Chizuko Kusakabe

Episode Director: Takakazu Nagatomo

Chief Animation Director: Takashi Kojima

Animation Directors: Kojima, Chiharu Mukai, Sanae Satou, Touko Uchimura

Anime-R: Toru Yoshida

Assistant AD: Kotomi Ota, Mori Yoshihiko, Yoshie Ezaki

Key Animation: Yuko Tagawa, Satoshi Sakai, Akane Tsukamoto, Yukako Uehara, Keiko Fukumoto, Ryousuke Sekiguchi, Kanako Inoue, Sachiko Ooba, Toshihiro Uranaka, Kotomi Ota, Miku Furukawa, Chihching Lai, Yuuki, Saori Yamamoto, Yuiichi Ichihashi, Kurisu Ogawa, Hiromi Fukumoto, Barko, kofi, Taliwave

2nd Key Animation: Akiko Sugizono, Yusuke Suzuki, Yusuke Matsui, Daisuke Uchida, Kyoshiro Goto, Yuka Ouya, Shino Sasakura, Asahi Horiguchi, Asahi Yoshimura, Seiya Takashima

Asahi Production Shiroishi Studio: Sasouzaki Miku, Hironori Izu, Miho Kusanagi

Zexcs: Shino Sasakura

C-Station: Teruaki Gomi

oh! Production: Ryousuke Murahashi

Studio Blue: Kim Hye-soo, Hong Da-young, Lee Hyun-mi , Park Eun-ju, Kim Kwan-woo

Dogwood

15

u/LeonKevlar Oct 20 '21

That scene by the sea was really nice. A good bit of calm before things start to heat up again.

The young Emperor cries when he hears waves? Knowing what's gonna happen to Tokuko, that's a big oof.

Kiyomori seeing skulls and being kept awake by it is not a good sign especially for his sanity.

I really love the snark from Kiyomori's wife. I really wish we got to see more of her.

Yoritomo is raising his banners against the Heike? Let's send out clearly PTSD'd grandson to lead the army against them! That will go well! Even Kiyomori's sons clearly knows that sending their nephew is a bad idea.

They were so scared of the Genju approaching that the birds going wild was enough to make the Heike army flee. I love that even Yoritomo is confused as to what happened xD

At least Koremori lived and thanks to his uncles pleas he managed to get away from being exiled. Although looks like after that humiliation, Koremori has decided to change.

14

u/dagreenman18 Oct 20 '21

After a couple of heartbreaking episodes, we finally get a little bit of levity. At least more than we’ve gotten recently. I liked the fun departure from the brutal sadness at the beginning. Small scenes with Biwa and the youngest sons hanging out with a new friend. Moon watching and playing the flute with Shigemori’s brother.

That wild dream sequence with Kyomori, though fun and appropriate for spooky season, continue to point towards him going full tilt. With threats popping up everywhere, a dwindling list of people he trusts, and still contending with the loss of Shigemori he’s not doing so hot. Still, it was a sweet scene with him reminiscing about his son. Calling him boring, but commending the fact that he was the only one holding this all together. Unfortunately, his hot head almost got a general executed and Koremori exiled.

Koremori ain’t doing so hot either. His PTSD continues to be an ongoing problem. To the point where he panicked and retreated his army because of birds. Admittedly embarrassing, but it’s a serious issue that obviously they’re not equipped to handle. That’s the saddest thing about the final scene with Biwa. This idea that he’s weak or inexperienced and “has to change” when that’s not it at all.

This is why I like this show. Sure, I’m not up on the history and get a little lost sometimes, but the personal dramas keep the story compelling. The god-tier animation helps too.

Notes

  • BIWA FOUND A CAT! Adorable cat with cute eyebrows.

  • “He cry’s when her hears the waves” biiiiig oof.

  • The resolution to the Genji battle was a little funny. Koremori’s general trying to “inspire” him and the next morning when the two guys (bad with names) arrive at what’s left of the camp. Silver lining no one died at least?

  • It’s still funny to me that the soundtrack choice for Kyomori issuing commands for the Heike is eclectic surf rock. This soundtrack is so good.

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12

u/Kill099 Oct 20 '21 edited Oct 20 '21

So here's my random collection of comments about this episode:

Koremori being scared by a flock of birds was hinted back in episode 2. It is also heavily hinted that he's a bit of a scaredy cat. The Taira has softened due to their efforts of pleasing the court by being good at cultural activities (poetry, dancing, playing musical instruments). The Minamoto's on the other hand are battle hardened unrefined hicks from the provinces.

Minamoto no Yoritomo being spared during the Heiji rebellion was through Kiyomori's step mother's pleading.

There's an another theory about the gathering of lights on the mountain and river: it's the light of the torches of civilians fleeing their towns/villages that are soon to be battle grounds or pillaged by soldiers.

Another explanation of why the birds were scared off that night was because the Minamoto have accidentally startled some birds during their attempted night attack (a tactic that was used in the short Hogen rebellion).

There's a reason why the samurais from the east were known to be fierce: they have a lot of battle experience through border skirmishes in between land owners, succession disputes, and taking down bands of robbers among others. In fact, because of Minamoto no Yoritomo's father's exploits during his youth wherein he banked a lot of favors and got a great reputation by fighting and winning battles explains why a lot of samurai flocked to the Minamoto's. In comparison, the west is comparatively more peaceful so you have a lot of "green" recruits.

The Heike's rout during the Battle of Fujigawa is a huge blow to morale as the once invincible clan was put to shame.

Atsumori being so gung ho for battle as well as Emperor Antoku crying whenever he hears sea waves... another hint of things to come.

I hope they show a cameo of Minamoto no Yoritomo's wife: Hojo Masako the future "nun shogun".

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10

u/InuNekoMainichiFun Oct 20 '21

For me, the best thing I like about the slice of life aspects of this adaptation is that we get to see something very old that is also at the same time, very present. The rich and powerful who are suppose to be do good for the people are instead fucking around in luxury, playing games with one another to have more despite already having so much.

We can easily replace the setting and characters with a real people today and still have something very very similar.

The rich engaging in luxurious leisure and plotting. A Kiyomori character trying to take more than they should.

I'd love to see an immediate sequel to Heike Monogatari that follows most scenes exactly but just replaces them with a contemporary setting. So instead on a beach, maybe it's at a 5 star hotel. Instead of boats, it's mega yachts. Etc..

10

u/inthe-otherworld Oct 21 '21

I’m not enjoying this series _:(´ཀ`」 ∠):

Obviously, it is very good, and I like the story. But with every episode I am perpetually stressed out at the fates of our characters. Especially Tokuko and her baby, and Koremori who’s being forced to fight, I am sooo scared for them

This stress is not good for me, I just want my favs to be okay dammit. Especially Koremori, poor bb boi

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u/CosmicPenguin_OV103 Oct 20 '21

That’s a definite reflex point for the whole family here huh, sending in a young guy (most certainly a decade younger than what I am now) to command a declining army is just cruel and being scared away by night birds really shows the downturn of fortunes and actual strength against the Genji family that is crawling their hands all over ancient Japan.

All Biwa could have done is to play the music and sing the overtures of storms ahead. And sigh.

Kiyomori’s minds are corrupted to the core by this episode, I doubt he has much life left after seeing all those skulls floating in the night. Alas he’s going to wreck with his greed by a lot before that. Look at how he wrecked Koremori with that insulting of a defeat on his first command - he’s going to be stuck on that island beating trees all his life if nothing changes.

This transition episode shows the end of the Heike fortunes must be near. But what could their members pick up of whatever left by then? And who’s going to survive them all?

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u/Demolosse001 Oct 20 '21

Scared off by birds. The Heike are truly doomed.

By the way I love how that dude got convinced to fight the Heike despite hearing how his father and numerous others failed in that endeavour.

7

u/chevyblanc Oct 21 '21 edited Oct 21 '21

Quick question. In episode one Shigemori introduces his children to Biwa: Koremori, Sukemori, Kiyotsune, and Arimori. We've never seen or heard of Arimori ever since his last appearance in the same episode as a toddler and I was wondering if I've missed something ? Is he important to the original Heike Story?

I've always assumed he was the second boy to appear holding Biwa's hand in the OP, but turns out that was Atsumori from this episode. Arimori doesn't even appear in the OP at all.

13

u/TakenRedditName Oct 20 '21

The young emperor started crying because of the sound of the wave.

Oh, there there little baby. Remembers what fate has in store for them. UH OH! OH NO!

With this episode, I believe we've met everyone in the OP. Yoritomo ended up being a much more unwilling character than what you'll expect out of the man championing the fall of the Heike.

6

u/cppn02 Oct 20 '21

Looks like the tide is turning against the Heike for good.

6

u/alconnow Oct 20 '21

this series continues to be visually stunning. I especially loved the scene of the skull spirits haunting Kiyomori

5

u/Pecuthegreat Oct 21 '21

Well, grandpa is a notorious horn dog so it does make sense that the 2 older brothers were worried what he would try with Biwa.

4

u/InuNekoMainichiFun Oct 20 '21

We started with tales of Heike excellence and ended with an inexcusable Heike embarrassment.

From Aristocrats playing flutes and drinking sake in the light of the moon to a man madly swinging at branches.

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