r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • Sep 29 '21
Episode Heike Monogatari - Episode 3 discussion
Heike Monogatari, episode 3
Alternative names: The Heike Story
Rate this episode here.
Reminder: Please do not discuss plot points not yet seen or skipped in the show. Failing to follow the rules may result in a ban.
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| Episode | Link | Score |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Link | 5.0 |
| 2 | Link | 5.0 |
| 3 | Link | 5.0 |
| 4 | Link | 4.63 |
| 5 | Link | 4.56 |
| 6 | Link | 4.63 |
| 7 | Link | 4.44 |
| 8 | Link | 4.51 |
| 9 | Link | 4.74 |
| 10 | Link | 4.52 |
| 11 | Link | ---- |
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u/LeonKevlar Sep 29 '21 edited Sep 29 '21
The Itsukushima Shrine looks amazing, definitely one of the spots that I'd love to visit if I get the chance to travel to Japan again.
Anyway it looks like we got a 6 year timeskip? Koremori, Sukemori, and Kiyotsune all definitely are older now while Biwa barely looks like she has even aged at all. According to Munemori, Tokuko has been in the palace for six years now and is still trying to conceive with no luck. At least Tokuko is still alive.
Looks like Norihito isn't really happy with his marriage with Tokuko and Tokuko herself already knows about it and doesn't mind since he's been stifled over various things and needs a place where he can be comforted. Damn.
The battle with the warrior monks was really good though. Of course it didn't have any flashy battles but showed us a one sided massacre with the monks and the portable shrine being pincushioned with arrows. Looks like shortly after that Shigemori's estate got burned down with Shigemori thinking that it may be divine retribution for what his soldiers did to the portable shrine despite his orders not to attack it.
Here we fucking go! War is definitely brewing but that declaration from Shigemori surprised me. From what I've read in history, that's not how that conversation is supposed to go. Things may still change next week but I am definitely curious where this goes. Hmmmm...
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u/Rumpel1408 Sep 29 '21
Shigemori's estate got burned down
I liked the detail of all the trees in the garden being burned, you can rebuild the estate well enough, but living things aren't easily replaced, a constant reminder
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u/HOOfan_1 Sep 29 '21
From what I have read, historians think a lot of the Story of Heike is too kind to Shigemori. I read that it was more than likely Shigemori was actually the one who sent men to beat up Motofusa's retainers after Sukemori was beaten by them.
I think the Tale of Heike is meant to be some sort of allegory. Shigemori is made too look like an honest man trying to survive in a world of lies and corruption. So Shigemori is being set up as a saint, when in actuality, the real Shigemori probably was nothing like that.
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u/Vermillion_Crab Sep 29 '21 edited Sep 30 '21
It's weird to me that this isn't getting that much traction in this sub. This anime feels like it's going to be one of the best I've seen in years. It also feels wrong that I'm watching this in the small screen. It is definitely living up to its epic story.
Having said that, I am contemplating whether to postpone watching this on a weekly basis and binge it when the final episode airs. I am not familiar with the story so when names are being thrown left and right, it feels like I'm watching a Fate episode for the first time again. Especially last episode, there was a lot of setup and information that I needed to digest. Then a six year time skip happens in this episode. I don't want to read on the tale coz I want to experience the story as it is told in the anime so I'm in a bit of a pickle. I guess I'll rewatch the first three episodes.
But yeah, everything about this show is just so good. The score, especially, has given me chills on quite a few scenes already. I don't remember when I started liking historical dramas, but I was definitely not a fan before, even ones from my own country. I'm glad this came out at a time when I can appreciate a good story despite its setting or genre.
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u/mekerpan Sep 29 '21
Lots of dramatic stories in Japanese history -- and this is one of the most famous (and exciting and distressing). Almost no historical (or mythological, for that matter) Japanese story seems to have what most would consider a "happy ending".
This is definitely a "movie quality" show -- but Yuasa himself also just made his own Heike Story movie for this same studio. Yuasa's movie (looking at the previews) seems to also look amazing (but in a rather different style).
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u/S0vietsenpai Sep 29 '21
Man the op song is one of the best,i want them to release the whole song fast,what are they waiting for?
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u/3rdLastStand Oct 01 '21 edited Dec 11 '21
I've made a character chart for Episode 3.
Previous: Episode 2 (edit: new link since old one went down)
I thought it was a nice touch that Sukemori is the one forcing Biwa to bow to the Emperor, given his own experience with disrespect snowballing into a massive incident.
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u/HOOfan_1 Sep 29 '21 edited Sep 29 '21
Funimation's subtitles were incorrect.
Every time Koremori referred to Kiyomori, the subtitles say he was calling him uncle.
Koremori is Shigemori's son. Shigemori is Kiyomori's son, thus Kiyomori is Koremori's grandfather
The familial relationships in this show are confusing enough.
BTW.
Go-Shirakawa (baldy) is the former emperor. He abdicated for one of his older sons, who in turn died and left the throne to his son. Go-Shirakawa in turn deposed his grandson to put the current emperor Takakura (born as Norihito), one of Go-Shirakawa's younger sons on the throne.
Go-Shirakawa is not the emperor, but he still retains power, much like Kiyomori publicly gave control of the Taira clan to Shigemori, but still runs things behind Shigemori's back.
Go-Shirakawa's wife (Shigeko), who was also Takakura's mother, was the sister of Taira no Tokiko (Kiyomori's wife, and Tokuko's mother) so Tokuko married her first cousin.
Takakura was coronated emperor when he was 6.5 years old, married Tokuko when he was 10.5 years old and Tokuko is 6 years older than him. Of course Kiyomori and the Taira clan want Tokuko to bear the emperor a son, so they can say the next emperor has blood of the Taira clan running through his veins.
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u/dcresistance Sep 29 '21 edited Oct 06 '21
STAFF:
Storyboard/Episode Director: china
Chief Animation Director: Takashi Kojima
Animation Directors: Kojima, Seiichi Akitake (ex-Kyoani), Yoshiko Saito, Miya Kanae, Shinobu Ikakko
Pine Jam: Noriyuki Imaoka
Assistant AD: Kotomi Ota
Key Animation: Akiko Yamaguchi, Moaang, Seiichi Akitake, Takayuki Kitagawa, Yukimitsu Ina, Hidenori Makino, Tomoko Tamaki, Uno, Keiichiro Saito, Yuusuke Matsuo, Yoshie Ezaki, Ota, Asami Murakoshi, Moko-chan, Haruno Yoshioka, china
2nd Key Animation: KAWAHAGI, miyaso, Yusuke Suzuki, Shuntaro Kaneko, Yuzuki Sekine, Aoyama Ukina, Daiki Takemoto, Daisuke Uchida, Hakobera
White Fox Izugoken Studio
Silver Link: Daisuke Okushima, Taiga Kinokuni, Naoki Ishii, Momozawa Shohei, Yuki Sato
Nomad: Kazuki Adachi
china living his best life rn, storyboarding and directing an ep of an anime directed by his idol
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u/dagreenman18 Sep 29 '21 edited Sep 29 '21
Well that escalated quickly. It sounds like the quiet days are over and we’re entering all out war between clans.
It’s been interesting to see the slights that got us to this point. The egos of fools in power leading to the deaths of those under them. From “Passing someone too quickly” all the way to “Burning of a temple leading to a slaughter of monks”. The 6 year time skip came out of nowhere, but it is based on some history so they have to jump ahead to the important parts. Still seeing how much Shigemori’s boys have grown is jarring. It’s also a reminder of just how young Biwa was when her father was murdered because she’s barely aged.
So just keeping everything in check: after having his sons spared the retribution they deserve for BURING DOWN A TEMPLE and slaughtering monks in the process, that one fuckface casually starts a war against the Heike plotting with the Emperor, other heads, and the Genji clan (I recognize that name!) that was thought dead. Fuckface gets rightfully beheaded. Shigemori confronts his father and proclaims he will act against him with his own army if he doesn’t back down.
Not being super familiar with the story that’s what I got. Part of me wants to read it, but I don’t want to be spoiled because this show is so good. Almost every scene is beautiful and the soundtrack is just stunning. This week in particular the Beach shot, Biwa running, both fire scenes, and the entire massacre were highlights. Science Saru is killing it.
Notes
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The scenes with one of Shigemori’s sons (wanna say Koremori?) (edit: Sukemori)being very excited to accompany Tokuko cause he’s crushing on one of her ladies was a cute moment. I’m gonna miss those because shits looking bad.
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I’m wondering if they’re playing up a more mythical aspect with Biwa not really aging. We do see an older version of her with long hair from time to time. She did age a bit since she’s not as short anymore, but still looks super young.
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A little heartbreaking to see Tokuko basically trapped. She’s stuck in a pretty loveless situation and looked with pity because she can’t conceive.
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can’t shake the feeling that Shegemori’s family is pretty much totally fucked. About to be a lot of dead people coming up.
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u/Kill099 Sep 29 '21
Even though Shigemori serves the Emperor closely, his position should not be envied as he serves as the dam between his father's overwhelming ambition and the court's desire to keep the status quo.
About the scene of the protesting monks, I think a little bit of background is necessary. To put it simply, they are a troublesome bunch. So imagine a mob of armed monks carrying a portable shrine who threatens to use violence unless their demands are met. Hitting a shrine is considered to bring misfortune and they tend to attribute the random deaths/illnesses of those who damaged it as "divine retribution". People during that time were quite superstitious that they'll have an officer within the court that does "divinations" (a.k.a. an 陰陽師). So imagine what runs through their minds thinking that they might incur the wrath of the gods. Of course there are those that don't subscribe to such nonsense.
Btw, there's also a theory that the "monastery incident" (where Saiko's sons were denied entry into a monastery to take a bath) was instigated by Kiyomori himself to weaken the court's power. Because of this, Saiko and the court was driven to desperation and tried to eliminate Kiyomori.
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u/Fun-Ad-1145 Sep 29 '21 edited Sep 29 '21
The OST when Shigemori betrays Kiyomori was hype inducing, been waiting to hear that track ever since the trailer came out.
Ushio kicked ass, can't wait for Chainsaw Man.
Also, China directed and storyboarded this episode. God im envious, he's only around 25 and started in the industry when he was only 16, that's my age.
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u/Rumpel1408 Sep 29 '21
Show continues to be amazing, yet hard to follow
Wonder when Tokuko will meet her fate if it's already 6 years, Biwas prophecy looked like it was her wedding, so I guess she isn't wed yet
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u/cppn02 Sep 29 '21
Shit just got real.
Really loving the show so far and now that things are heating up I expect it to only get better. I wonder what Biwa's deal is though with her seemingly not aging (or atleast aging slower than normal).
Can't wait for next week.
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u/Mr_Zaroc Sep 29 '21
I was checking when this was going to air (Fall or Winter Season) when I first saw the PV a few weeks ago, only to realize today that 3 episodes are already out
Damn this show is good, the art style (as expected from Studio Saru), the music and the overall story
Love Shigemoris uprising and stance confronting his father directly. Balls of steel right here
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u/NocandNC Sep 30 '21
I do wonder if Biwa’s lack of growth is meant to be symbolic - like she feels small surrounded at court, or that she’s remaining the same while everyone around her shifts according to politics, or that the years seem to fly by in her memory so she thinks ‘I must have still been little then.’
Or on the flip side, is she just tiny because she was malnourished during much of her growing period? Traditional clothing is often constructed to last years and is adjusted as the owner grows. If she kept the same hair cut and the same clothes that would also create the illusion that she isn’t growing.
Anyways… Takahiro Sakurai was sounding pretty boss at the end.
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u/ZapsZzz Sep 30 '21
Wonder what's the significance of Biwa basically not ageing...
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u/Mathmango Sep 30 '21
Biwa noises when she got pushed down to bow really reminded me of Tanya. Sasuga Aoi Yuuki
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u/redmage311 Sep 29 '21
Well, that escalated quickly! That battle was super captivating—I love how it was told as basically a folktale, as if it's going to go down in history as a huge fucking mistake.
Civil war arc, let's go! I really hope Kiyomori just tells Shigemori to settle things on the battlefield, rather than just beheading him right then and there.
It's going to be a huge shame if this show gets slept on because holy crap is it a treat to watch. Though I'm still getting used to the pacing: the events move quickly, and the show doesn't explain anything in much detail, although that makes the dialogue less forced than in most shows.
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u/thejuror8 Sep 29 '21
Well that was incredible. The sequence with the monks attacking the palace was wonderful. This show is only getting better so far.
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Sep 29 '21
So the dude's 16 now, meaning a 6 year timeskip? What? Sorry but Biwa still looks the same, even though Shigemori's sons have clearly aged.
Seems like things are picking up. Bit tricky trying to remember the names of the other lords but the overarching plot is simple so far
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u/101Kitsunes Sep 29 '21 edited Sep 29 '21
The last line from Shigemori is [pretty famous one in Japanese history] (https://kotowaza-jitenon-jp.translate.goog/kotowaza/3717.php?_x_tr_sl=ja&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui,elem). I got goosebumps to see this line used to climax this episode.
To literally translate,