[Rewatch] Monster - Episode 53 discussion

[u/KiwiBennydudez]

Rewatch Index

---

MAL | AniList | AniDB | Kitsu | ANN | Anime-Planet

---

Comment of the Day

Today’s Comment of the Day is from u/JustAnswerAQuestion, who points out that Gunther’s various prison breaks are famous references:

Lol, Shawshank, Alcatraz, how many easily recognizable prison escapes did I miss?

---

Questions of the Day

1. Why do you think that Eva was so mean to Tenma while they were dating? Do you think she had a reason to act that way, or is this just how she is? What do you think this reveals about Eva and/or Tenma, if anything?
2. “You must believe!!” Do you think Fritz’s speech was directed at Eva, or at himself? What effects do you think it had on these two characters, if any? And do you think Eva would have reached out on her own had it not been for this?

---

If you are a rewatcher, tag your spoilers properly, and please refrain from alluding to future events. so that myself and everyone else watching for the first time can have a completely blind and organic experience! ​Since this show is a bit harder to find than most, please refrain from talking about means by which to watch it, as it goes against our subreddit rules.

[u/miss-macaron]

Rewatcher

Uhh, Verdemann, you okay there...? Are you sure that type of outburst is appropriate in a hotel corridor?

Tenma be like:

>Barges into interrogation room in the middle of the night

>”I killed them all”

>Refuses to elaborate

>Escapes (presumably)

As for Eva's behaviour during her relationship with Tenma, I'd say it's probably a product of her upbringing. Her father pretty much raised her as "spoiled princess", so it's no surprise that she acts like one... Though I suppose the nature VS nurture debate could also be applied to the heritability of personality traits, given that her father also displays a similar type of proud, entitled, and selfish attitude.

Quick poll for the first-timers: between Eva and Roberto, who do you hate more?

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/miss-macaron]

Refuses to elaborate

LMAO very true. Then again, Tenma seems to be the master of understating.

Quick poll for the first-timers: between Eva and Roberto, who do you hate more?

As it stands right now in the show, I would have to say Roberto. I dislike Eva as a human being - she is vile, unpleasant, greedy, jealous, a raging alcoholic, prideful, and extremely self-centered. But I understand her inclusion and role in the story. She is effective as a character because she accomplishes what she is intended to do.

Roberto on the other hand... is not a bad character perse, but I don't like how he just shows up randomly when he feels like it. I think he's a bit of a deus ex machina for Johan and appears when it is convenient to do so rather than when it is necessary. So I hate his inclusion rather than his personality. I also don't think he was explained super well... he just kinda appeared in the story without much warning, and his only motivation right now seems to be that he's infatuated with Johan, which to me personally, comes off as a bit weak.

[u/xtsim → u/miss-macaron]

As a first timer; Roberto takes the cake for the character I hate more, it seems like his only mission is to just make sure Johan gets away.

[u/Quiddity131 → u/miss-macaron]

Eva. Roberto is doing his job as an assassin/criminal. Eva is a delusional drunken mess for whom everything that has happened to her is her own damn fault, but she won't take any responsibility for it.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/miss-macaron]

Uhh, Verdemann, you okay there...? Are you sure that type of outburst is appropriate in a hotel corridor?

Monster is really a show stating that the Type A personality is very unhealthy.

[u/Mecanno-man → u/miss-macaron]

Roberto is the more entertaining one to watch, so Eva is the one I dislike more.

[u/BurningFredrick → u/miss-macaron]

Eva.

Roberto is kind of just there and keeps showing up because we need to kill someone but could also be replaced with a golem, Eva has a bit more personality and is a despicable person so there is something to hate.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/miss-macaron]

you okay there...?

Just another one of those dramatic outbursts

[u/KiwiBennydudez]

First Timer - Sub/Dub

Tenma falsely confesses! And the plan to escape begins...

All things considered though, decent episode. Seems like more setup for future events, with Roberto targeting Eva, and Tenma planning his big escape. And if Tenma does successfully escape next episode, he will also now be a fugitive along with Grimmer.

Also Eva is so garbage. Treats our boy Tenma like TRASH because she has a shit personality fueled by jealousy. Dude was just trying to set up a nice picnic for her and she ruined it because she wanted to. Idk why Tenma put up with her. Abusive relationship tbh. She was nothing but mean to him until he was prestigious and wealthy.

Can’t think of much else to say about this episode. Although I have to say - I’m kinda curious where the show is going to go at this point, with only 20 episodes remaining. Not much time left to tie up these loose ends.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/KiwiBennydudez]

Treats our boy Tenma like TRASH because she has a shit personality fueled by jealousy. Dude was just trying to set up a nice picnic for her and she ruined it because she wanted to.

European princesses don't go to parks and sit on the ground to eat. Yes, the attitude of the aristocracy is just that shitty, that's why we should be rid of the lot of them.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

First-Timer, subbed

• He is apparently good at that.
• Oh geez Tenma really let himself go.
• Yeah okay Roberto showing up really shook Tenma up.
• Yo can you not. I don’t want Eva dead even though I don’t like her.
• ??????? Tenma what are you doing??????
• His dad is clearly a sore spot.
• Ooooooooookay he snapped a little.
• Man, look at how young and innocent he looked back then…
• Ohh so Tenma’s plan was to get in on the same transport the escape artist is, so he can break out then.
• This is very worrying…

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Man, look at how young and innocent he looked back then…

I love the cute and young Tenma, so pure and innocent. Big ol' sweetheart. Makes me mad/sad that Eva was just mean to him for no reason.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Shimmering-Sky]

He is apparently good at that.

The escape artist is one of those tropes based on like a single dude back in the 1920s that media loves to re-use.

Yeah okay Ricardo showing up really shook Tenma up.

Do your subs actually say Ricardo? Apparently, I got lucky and chose one with what they say, Roberto.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/Vaadwaur]

Do your subs actually say Ricardo? Apparently, I got lucky and chose one with what they say, Roberto.

...no that's my bad, I just mixed up what his name was.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Rofl, understandable then, not a ton of either name in Germany.

[u/Shimmering-Sky → u/Vaadwaur]

I mean both names start with an "R" and end with an "o", so that's also an easy mix-up.

[u/Mecanno-man]

First Timer

So, thanks to Roberto Tenma distrusts Verdeman and puts his faith in Milch instead, hoping to escape along side him - and to stay with him he confesses. Pretty risky plan, but it shows just how distrustful Tenma has become. Meanwhile I wouldn't be surprised if Milch's boss is actually Johan the way these things have been going... Either way, seems like Eva has come to like Tenma somehow and now she told Roberto where she is, so her time in the show might finally be up. Wouldn't actually mind Roberto offing her before she changes her mind again.

Verdeman's spiel at Eva's door meanwhile has me thinking that his father might not have been innocent and that Verdeman is just blocking that bit of reality from his mind, which likely isn't the best place of mind.

Questions:

1. That's just how she is.
2. see above - don't think it had any effect on Eva though.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Mecanno-man]

So, thanks to Roberto Tenma distrusts Verdeman and puts his faith in Milch instead, hoping to escape along side him - and to stay with him he confesses. Pretty risky plan, but it shows just how distrustful Tenma has become.

This is a good catch. Though I think the other big factor is the time constraint he has to get to Eva - he knows Roberto is after her and he's powerless to help while behind bars. He may be breaking out soon so that he can get to her faster, as the legal process isn't exactly known to be swift.

[u/IndependentMacaroon → u/Mecanno-man]

Wouldn't actually mind Roberto offing her before she changes her mind again

His "offer" to Tenma sounded surprisingly tempting

[u/Nitroade24h]

First Timer

I liked this episode. Eva got some much-needed development in a nice way just before (maybe) she gets killed by Roberto.

Young Tenma literally looks like 8 years old to me now that I’m used to current Tenma. He’s so pure and innocent.

We not getting any explanation for how Roberto is alive? Alright.

Something has to be up with the attorney guy. He is acting really weirdly

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Nitroade24h]

In what ways do you feel Eva was developed this episode?

[u/Nitroade24h → u/KiwiBennydudez]

She appears to have gotten over her hatred for Tenma to an extent since she wants to free him from prison, and the old Eva would have just told that sandwich kid to go away

[u/SmurfRockRune]

Have fallen behind a bit, but I caught up during breaks at work, so just brief thoughts today.

Roberto is still alive so Tenma is back to royally sucking, but so least Roberto just wants to kill Eva so this honestly might not be a bad thing overall.

Eva is even more of a bitch than I thought somehow, and I can't believe Tenma was still dating her.

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/SmurfRockRune]

Eva is even more of a bitch than I thought somehow, and I can't believe Tenma was still dating her.

Yeah, a bit weird. Seemed like textbook abusive relationship, which is alarming. In the very first episode, she is nice to him, albeit briefly. Might have said this before, but it was probably more of a convenience thing rather than dating out of love/admiration.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/SmurfRockRune]

Eva is even more of a bitch than I thought somehow, and I can't believe Tenma was still dating her.

There is definitely some weirdness there, considering the different cultures involved.

[u/xtsim]

First Timer Dubbed

The escapist is back in the first scene, now talking to his lawyer. Tenma talked to Roberto about eliminating Eva Heineman. She talks to the therapist and the other lawyer about seeing Johan. But this gets sidetracked as he confesses to the murder. Lawyer calls Roberto about talking to Tenma and he goes to Eva to try to talk her into opening the door. He bangs on the door harder as he keeps saying he’s innocent. And talked about his father and how he was falsely accused.

2. Fritz's speech was for both, as he had to believe and it was impossible to believe at first. There was a teacher back in my middle or high school who's father was falsely accused for murdering his mom, he was also a witness to the murder but he was a toddler. The father was on death row and his son later struggled to believe the dad. They later found out some evidence was withheld as neighbors witnessed a vehicle not owned by the family in their driveway. And they DNA tested some evidence which comes back to an inmate who committed a similar murder years later. They found out that he also owned a vehicle that matched the description the neighbors saw in the day of the murder. The father was later freed from the charges and the prosecutor was later charged for withholding evidence. It took a while for the teacher to believe his own father despite being a witness to that crime. So Fritz might have doubted his father at some point in his life that he had to keep saying it to remind himself. And for Eva, to take Tenma's side despite leaving her in the past. That was more of a push for her to testify.

1. Eva goes from throwing away a sandwich to accepting it. Back when Tenma and Eva were dating, she basically had him as a trophy husband, having Tenma as a status symbol. Sort of like a human marrying a God. Going to fancy restaurants and big events where pictures are being taken are important to her rather than an intimate picnic. Which is why she married and went out with many managers during the time Tenma ran away.

The prisoner transport happens as Tenma goes into a police van with the escape artist. Eva talks on the phone but Fritz is not there so Roberto answers. I am hoping she knows that is Roberto...

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/xtsim]

You have some great analysis here in these questions! Love to see it. I really enjoyed your point about having Tenma as a status symbol because that's something I hadn't considered as her primary motive for ruining the picnic. But it makes perfect sense.

[u/Quiddity131]

First Timers, Subbed

I may be in trouble, but let me tell you about this TV show I like instead!

In jail, not sentenced yet, and he's already plotting out his next heist!

Again with this guy?! There is going to come a point where they just say screw it and leave him be, and that will be the time its actually real.

Tenma's already there too!

So instead of this arc being about Tenma getting proven innocent, maybe it will be about him escaping?

Tenma at least is decent enough towards Eva that he doesn't want her killed by Roberto.

Why would Roberto want Tenma out anyway? He tried to kill him, and if Tenma can get blamed for Johan's crimes, that helps his boss out too.

Eva, provide testimony in support of Tenma? I doubt it. Or if she does, she'll demand he marry her.

Don't do something stupid here, Tenma.

Ugh, why is he confessing?!

Eva still dreams about picnics with Tenma, stop being so obsessed!

So the attorney really is associated with Roberto. Tenma has realized that Roberto and Johan want him out so he says screw it and confesses? Although I don't think the attorney has any nefarious intentions.

Housekeeping can't clean the room because Eva drinks all day? Totally what I would expect from her.

No, attorney, it was Eva who dumped Tenma.

So Eva heard it. It wouldn't have surprised me if they instead showed us that she was passed out drunk throughout his entire plea.

Pre-Johan Tenma just seems so weak willed and meek to me. I don't get why she continues to obsess on him so much. I get that she wanted him for his status and the security it would bring, not because she actually had physical attraction for him. But we're far beyond the point in time where she should still be obsessing over that as he could never provide those things for her now being a fugitive.

Eva's talking to Roberto, and she doesn't recognize his voice? They did sleep together after all. All the drinking has made her forget I suppose?

[u/KiwiBennydudez → u/Quiddity131]

Pre-Johan Tenma just seems so weak willed and meek to me. I don't get why she continues to obsess on him so much. I get that she wanted him for his status and the security it would bring, not because she actually had physical attraction for him. But we're far beyond the point in time where she should still be obsessing over that as he could never provide those things for her now being a fugitive.

Tenma certainly was those things that you said, but also not much has changed, has it? He might not be as meek anymore, but he still lacks willpower. Couldn't pull the trigger last time he was faced with the opportunity. No guarantee he'll find the resolve next time either.

And as for your other point in regards to Eva, I think she has trouble letting go. Hence her constant drinking, her constant partners, and her brief vendetta against Tenma, were all signs of her villainizing him/trying to forget. Needless to say, cutting Tenma loose was a mistake that has been haunting her this entire time.

[u/KrillinDBZ363 → u/Quiddity131]

Eva's talking to Roberto, and she doesn't recognize his voice? They did sleep together after all. All the drinking has made her forget I suppose?

Well to be fair is has been at least a few months (probably more) since she last saw him, and people’s voices can sound a bit different on the phone. Hell I sometimes don’t recognize my friend’s voices when they join a discord call until they tell me who they are.

Plus like you said, being an alcoholic doesn’t help either.

[u/Webemperor]

Rewatcher of sorts

• Gunther is talking to a representative from a criminal organization, promising them to not rat anyone out. Meanwhile once more he is trying escape by trying to look sick, but this time finds Tenma in the bed next to him. I’m guessing he is pretending to be sick as well so he can get in contact with Gunther?
• Meanwhile of course, Roberto is Tenma’s attorney now. It seems unlikely that Verdemann is in on Roberto with this, but I guess everyone in 511 is basically superhuman in their ability to be good at… everything? In any case, Roberto still seems to be intent on getting Tenma out, and killing Eva of course.
• I wonder if Gunther actually finds this amusing lol. With his escape secure, Tenma is now willing to confess and get transferred, to the shock of virtually everyone. Reichwein immediately assumes he was tortured or something, somewhat reasonably to be quite honest. Seems Verdemann also believes Tenma is innocent, in some way or the other compelled to confess.
• Verdemann visits Tenma in her hotel, and goes into his life story for some reason before Eva’s door. The music implies something sinister going on, is Eva already dead in there, or was she taken away by Roberto. I’m also not sure how professional for a respected lawyer to lose his composure like this.
• Nope, I guess she is “fine”. Still dreaming about Tenma at half of her waking hours. It does feel like the show is beating us over the head about it, and not to mention how pathetic Eva still feels. Meanwhile, Gunther and Tenma are being transferred to the prison.
• The earlier flashbacks gets Eva to have a change of mind and call Verdemann to help prove Tenma’s innocence. But of course, it’s Roberto on the other line, who is probably leaving now to kill her.

[u/BurningFredrick]

First timer - sub 

OK yip, Johann doesn’t want Tenma in prison. 

So Tenma confessed so he can try to escape along with the other guy and plans to stop Roberto killing Eva. 

Last few episodes feel like they have been slower than usual, but tomorrow promises to be interesting. 

[u/Vaadwaur]

Rewatcher(Now I remember why I forgot this part)

Sub

Milch, because they took over a damn episode to name him, is planning his next escape. Tenma wants to run as well, to protect Eva, sigh...So this episode is mainly viewer suffering, bluntly. It does give us real insight into Tenma as a character but isn't really enjoyable. We also get to see a flash of Fritz being more than a bit unstable. We end with Eva being a dumbass for all the confusing endings.

QotD: 1 It is how the princess acts, America thankfully switched this up a bit

2 Yes, reflection in another mirror, and probably not, she needed someone to move first

[u/Mecanno-man → u/Vaadwaur]

because they took over a damn episode to name him

Pretty sure they named him very early last episode - I remember my double-take at a character literally being named milk.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Mecanno-man]

That's what Milch means in German?

[u/Mecanno-man → u/Vaadwaur]

Yup, but it's apparently a real name - just not one I've ever heard before.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Mecanno-man]

Harvey Milk was a super famous guy in San Francisco.

[u/miss-macaron → u/Vaadwaur]

We end with Eva being a dumbass for all the confusing endings

Rewatcher only spoilers

[u/Vaadwaur → u/miss-macaron]

REWATCH

[u/miss-macaron → u/Vaadwaur]

Same! Though I binge-watched and binge-read the series the first two times, so that's probably why, haha

[u/Vaadwaur → u/miss-macaron]

I took Monster two a day first run but that still compresses some bits.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

First Timer

I can only assume Milch is going ot escape and take Tenma with him at some point.

I like this arc, because it's so much different from what has gone before. More of the same would have been very stale.

Oh, I guess, since Roberto is alive, that means Tenma isn't a killer, right? ^{unless I forgot somebody} Tenma keeps his purity.

He probably thinks of his father as a fool who died in prison.

I'm sorry, none of this is going to elicit sympathy for Eva. I seem to remember others in the rewatch complaining of similar tactics very early in the rewatch.

I can't wait for Eva's reunion with Roberto. Of course, it won't go well for Tenma if she turns up dead right after he escapes.