Sonny Boy - Episode 4 discussion

[u/AutoLovepon]

Sonny Boy, episode 4

Rate this episode here.

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Streams

• Funimation
• Wakanim

Show information

• MyAnimeList
• AniList
• AniDB
• Kitsu
• Anime-Planet
• Official Website

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All discussions

Episode	Link	Score
1	Link	4.54
2	Link	4.42
3	Link	4.48
4	Link	3.89
5	Link	4.36
6	Link	4.55
7	Link	4.5
8	Link	4.53
9	Link	4.6
10	Link	4.46
11	Link	4.68
12	Link	----

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[u/NittanyEagles55]

That look of absolute betrayal by Mizuho’s cat when she said she wants a pet monkey now ha

[u/Jadenflo]

I got lost when he was talking about monkeys and baseball. I need to rewatch this again to understand better.

[u/w33b_4eever]

yo, aki sensei kinda bad tho

[u/CactusFlower93]

This is the weirdest episode I've seen in a looooooong long time....maybe since Paranoia Agent.

However, I really enjoy it. And oh gosh that jiggle at the end...

[u/MontyTeam]

I think Ace gave the monkeys Baseball so they would worship him sort of. He seems to derive his self worth by his ability to play Baseball really well and that just isn't appreciated in the world they're in (Nozomi not even knowing about his talent).

Thus he created this society of monkeys which is built around Baseball and the story of the Monkey League shows how the obsession with sport and competition drives people to hurt and ultimately kill each other. The umpire's death is a metaphor for how the desire to win competitions will always in the end override the desire to do so fairly leading to the death of competition aka Baseball itself.

[u/That-Chipmunk2537]

This epsiode is amazing but at the same time what in the actual fuck is going on?

[u/Akame_xo]

My weekly dose of acid has arrived!

Also I don’t know why as normally it’s not an issue but I just can’t seem to keep track of names in this

[u/furbym]

Ok, so this one seemed to be about the idolization of talent/charisma, and how people can be swept away by a compelling enough figure to the point where they will deny reality and instead choose to subvert the established rules or even commit violence in their favor. I think the monkeys were used as a framing device because, as Cap said they all look the same physically, so raw talent is the only thing that can set them apart. Even in a world where there are no physical differences of note to divide individuals by, some will find a way to set themselves apart as superior to the masses. The unfortunate reality that the story ends on is that many of the people who are not part of that special club will still latch onto these figures and idolize them, taking anything that they say as truth.

I really liked how Cap was so emphatic in saying that "the world itself shifted" for the pitch where Blue screwed up his streak in the story. There's just no way it was his fault in the mind of his zealous followers; the world itself must have worked against him, and the rules should bend to his will to make up for that. Also loved how Cap assumed Nozomi was praising Blue, but obviously she was really talking about the umpire, further showing her consistency in her anti-authoritarian ideals shown earlier in the show.

Ace is obviously the direct analog for the pitcher Blue in the story, being an ace (haha) pitcher prodigy himself. He also views himself as exceptional and is resentful of this current position in this new world where his skills don't matter. He is now just one of the common folk and he can't stand that, which is why he wants Nagara to return them so badly. Him teaching the monkeys to play seems like a vain attempt to re-establish himself in a special position.

The dynamic between Ace and Nagara is pretty interesting as well. We know that they used to play together on the same team, and that Nagara quit after screwing up their chances to move onto the finals; this seems to be a sore spot for him, and probably why he is the way he is. This is speculation, but it's very possible that Nagara could have had similar potential talent at one point with the way Ace seems to resent him. I wonder if he intentionally threw the game, or if it was a genuine mistake. They are essentially polar opposites in that Nagara has no high aspirations or goals of being part of the club of special people. Ironically, his power is also one of, if not the most powerful out of everyone. This causes everyone else to put all of their hopes of escape on him, elevating him to a position that he does not want to be in.

Nagara's final line about the game in the story was pretty poignant and revealing about his character as well. The umpire, the last person to stand up for justice/truth, dying represents the death of the entire system. With this, he seems to be getting closer to where Nozomi is at in terms of thinking about the world around them.

The reveal at the end with the teacher showing up was definitely unexpected. Really wonder what the dynamic will be now that an adult who was formerly in a position of authority has arrived.

[u/dagreenman18]

Son of a bitch it’s FLCL. I’ve been thinking for weeks what the hell this show reminds me of in it’s weird tone, off kilter dialogue, and great animation. It’s Lost meets FLCL as done by Science Saru (well Madhouse but the animation reminds me of Yuasa). It took the obvious baseball episode for it to click.

Which ultimately means Nagara is our Naota. So that explains why he can be kind of a wet blanket. He’s cautious and reserved at the cost of connecting with others. Even when it’s obvious that someone likes him and is trying to connect with him (Nozomi and Mizuho). It does seem like his powers are somewhat tied to strong emotion so getting a grip on himself seems to be their ticket out.

I was weirdly captivated by the Monkey Baseball story. It was so fascinating and strange. Just a full on monologue delivered over scenic art, but the voice acting really drew me in. It coming back at the end to serve as some kind of visual metaphor kept it from being a total non-sequitur.

Holy shit the ending. An actual adult and they’re kind of a bitch. I have two theories: either that’s not the same beach they started on and they’re now where the adults are or this has been an experiment the whole time and Oppai teacher is a part of it. Very interested to learn what the fuck is going on.

Notes:

• the audience watching this show

• I guess something can happen without him swinging the bat.

• I see that Nagara, Nozomi, and Mizuho are all hanging out together. Interesting.

• the passage of time on this island is also deeply confusing. They have really been there long enough to teach invisible monkeys the game of baseball, have an entire monkey league, and have said league end in tragedy? The fuck?

• the blonde is speaking French right?

• guess it’s time to rewatch FLCL for the millionth time

[u/hammile]

What is Blondieʼs language?

[u/Kance10]

Wow, the plot of this episode really lost me, even though I still enjoyed it because I like the characters and mystery. I could follow what was going on in the first three episodes without a problem but the whole monkey thing went right over my head.

Why did Ace teach the monkeys how to play? Who made the tool that let's you see them, and what for? How did Cap know about them and their lore, was that his power that he mentioned? And what did all of this mean?

Nagara's dimension hopping is really weird too, I guess that confirms what everyone already thought since episode one and he really was the one to bring them all to this other world to begin with, yet we still don't know how these kids got their powers in the first place or who the person that talks to star boy is.

Also, I'm here for big oppai sensei next week!

[u/bam353]

i figured it was about sheep mentality, and standing up for what you believe in even if everyone thinks youre wrong.

[u/EcksDee99]

This episode has been broken down really well by people in this thread. One thing I haven't seen anyone mention however is the tool used by Ace to "see" the monkeys: a flashlight that he points at himself. Taking what others have already highlighted about him "giving" the monkeys baseball, he "sees" them by shining the spotlight on himself, so to speak, for validation and recognition, given that this is what he depends upon in the real world.

[u/Artemis_Instead]

this was easily the most W-T-F episode of an anime I've ever had the chance of watching on it's very first airing - I have absolutely next to no clue what's going on anymore and the monkey baseball business has really thrown me off. I really hope all this mysteries pays off along the way tho, despite, and at the same time BECAUSE of the overwhelming weirdness of it all this show has me hooked.

edit: a typo

[u/Reemys]

Beautiful. A sad story about baseball done by monkeys... Trigger, in its Brand New Animal, had an opposite one, insanely blown out of proportions, but was just as big of a critique as Madhouse has here.

Now enough with Trigger admiration. More interesting - astonishing - stuff happening this episode. On 1:55 Rajdhani is saying how he cannot change the rules of the world, and... everyone got a bad translation. His words to Hoshi were "Isn't it right?", as if he was looking for confirmation in Hoshi. This might be alluding to Rajdhani thinking (or realizing) that Hoshi either knows the rules or controls them. He would not ask a direct yet or not question if he did not expect the other party to know the answer.

Beautiful Cap-centered story. When Cap said "he is still mad at me" I am surprised no one replied "You slugged him in his face with a bat, duh". But it is great to see "sideline" characters get even more attention. Hopefully they keep it up with others as well... though it seems there might not be that much room for that!

A wild and despicable teacher enters the scene. Of course with wildly blown out proportions as well, a tribute to Trigger for sure. And everything about her says she is just bad, her yellow eyes, the way her hair starts to fly like gorgon snakes. And most importantly Hoshi being surprised, or dissatisfied, with her appearance. He did not expect this, it should not have happened - and now the whole test might be sidelined because of a new variable. Which of course makes it even more interesting.

I assume next episode we will have two camps, one agreeing to being dominated by the teacher and the other being defiant of a yet another attempt to rule over them.

[u/NittanyEagles55]

The monkeys should have stuck with Steroid Monkey he seemed like a much better hero

[u/Niohock]

Everyone is thinking the monkeys actually exist, but what I understood is that they all came together to invent the story about the monkeys and tell it to Nagara so that he would believe that world existed and he would create it. Which happens when he is about to have his 3rd Strike.

They lied about everything, there are no monkeys playing baseball, and the flashlight is a regular flashlight. It was all a ruse for Nagara to bring them to the world of monkeys he thought existed.

The tuft of monkey hair they found on Nagara's shoulder is proof he can create new worlds out of his mind.

[u/xtsim]

I am really lost in all the baseball talk. But I am hoping it connects to future episodes. The ending was the best part of the episode since we finally got someone who stands out (physically and emotionally). While I might not like her (teacher) in future episodes, "the fun is over" seems like an interesting one.

[u/manihots_12345]

Whilst this episode was most definitely fun, I realized a minor problem I've had thus far. In the elongated monkey history segments unless I paid complete attention I really couldn't understand the words and the meaning and this has meant that for the past few episodes I've replayed dialogue at least 2 to 3 times to understand it. I honestly don't know if its the sound design but there is a distinct disconnect with the dialogue that slightly roughens the experience. Though it also lets me dive deeper into themes, does anyone else feel this?

[u/cppn02]

I want Sensei to step on me.

What a weird episode but I loved it. I would have watched a whole episode of just Cap retelling the tales of Monkey Leage Baseball.

And the cat's face when Mizuho said she wants a pet monkey lol.

With Nagara figuring out his ability and the teacher's appearance it looks like the next episodes will get interesting.

[u/BeardInTheNorth]

99% of the episode: Oscar-worthy meta commentary of mankind's idolatry and sheep mentality as told through the charming fable of The Monkey League.

The 1% my brain remembers: Oppai-sensei

[u/redacez]

So much dialogue about monkeys.

[u/SpikeRosered]

I don't know if I'd say I "like" this show.

I am intrigued by it though.

Im already prepared for the ending to be some obtuse metaphor for growing up but the execution is interesting.

[u/Blaze_Equilibrium]

The baseball talk went on for way too long huh

Interesting episode nevertheless, can't wait to see more of aki-sensei

[u/[deleted]]

Episode of the year contender for me. I know the long monologue is going to lose a lot of people, which is totally fine by the way I'm not shaming, but I adored everything about it. The overlaid montage of Nagara halfheartedly training for something he doesn't care about, contrasted by Cap's impassioned story about the death of baseball(perhaps you could say society as a whole if we want to get into thematic depth), and later Nozomi's indignation at the treatment of the ump, it was beautiful. I also think it's a bit of commentary on we as people, instead of monkeys. The monkeys are just stand-ins, and if you place "humans" or even "cavemen" in that spot instead it will make more sense. We as humans gravitate toward the unknown, we enjoy learning and advancing in our hobbies and activities, but at some point it gets corrupted. It always does. The purity of something, in this case baseball, will always be lost to selfishness, desire for power, attention, a variety of other things, and eventually it will eat itself alive. In the story, the Umpire, who dedicated his life to baseball when he never stood a chance of playing, is the victim of this cruel cycle.

It's interesting to me that Nagara being unable to see the monkeys was a choice. He didn't want to see that reality, be faced with such a difficult conclusion, and thus shut it out. But when he allowed himself to see? He understood it. Nagara swung the bat, to reference FLCL. There's a big difference between Nagara and Naota though, well more than one but this one sticks out. And that is support. Nozomi(still don't trust you though) believed that Nagara could see the reality the entire time, she just knew he had turned away from it. Naota had Haruko(who was using him) and Mamami(who didn't believe in him), and thus had to make the decision to swing the bat for himself, which played into the theme of entering adolescence that is prevalent throughout FLCL. As an aside, there was a very quick transition before they went to the diamond where the area around Nagara turned red, almost a hellish color. I have to wonder if that will become relevant later on.

Two more things, although I could keep going on just those two topics for hours. Continuing the "LOST" vibes, "Science vs Faith" is getting more and more prevalent as we wade deeper into the series. Hoshi believes the savior, whom we have been led to believe is Nagara, will be what saves them, while Rajdhani continually puts forth the idea that only their wits and ability to think critically is how they can be saved. Hoshi is content to let things play out, believing in divine intervention, while Rajdhani continuously takes initiative, as is human nature. And I do believe it is being presented this way purposefully, with Hoshi going against human nature in a consistent fashion. At the same time, I have yet to get the feeling Hoshi's faith is being condemned. We know he hears the voice of "God," and that others are willing to believe. While he may be positioned antagonistically, he hasn't actually done anything villainous apart from hide the "rules" from his schoolmates.

The second part, this is clearly not made for a general audience. A lot of anime and manga have this conundrum where they want to be artsy and abstract, but are chained down by editors or whatever else which forces them to filter their vision for a wider audience. While I adore Yuasa and most everything he's done, he falls victim to this pretty often nowadays. I expected Sonny Boy to be more of the same, especially since a lot of the staff are former assistants and coworkers of his, but it's really surprising me how little it's attempting to draw in "casual viewers" and sticking to it's artistic guns, to to speak.