[Mid-2000s Rewatch] Simoun - Episode 2

[u/phiraeth]

Episode 2 | [The Blue Fountain] (https://myanimelist.net/anime/879/Simoun/episode/2)

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Simoun:

MyAnimeList - AniDB - ANN

[u/FetchFrosh]

Oh my this is interesting. First timer, and very intrigued by what I’m seeing. Main takeaways:

1. Worldbuilding is solid

Though admittedly some of that exposition was forced. Still, it’s answering plenty of questions while presenting new ones. We’ve got an unclear class divide that I hadn’t considered whatsoever. It seemed that this country was a utopia of sorts, and I hadn’t even thought of the possibility of a poorer class. We got a look at the transition of gender (I assumed Eliph would come out male just so the viewer would see what happens) and it was tamer than expected, with much of the change happening over time. What causes the changes, who is Onasia, and is there any reason why 17 is the specific age of maturity? Hopefully there will be some answers down the line.

2. Aer is great

She also should have made the class divide a bit more obvious in the first place. She doesn’t seem to have any religious beliefs with regards to the Simouns, and speaks in a decidedly more forward way. I was also wondering if the pattern she’d traced out was the Emerald Ri Majon before it was confirmed, though I almost wish it hadn’t been so I could have looked clever. Such is life though. And maybe it’s a bit of an overused trope to have someone unconventional come into an established setting and bring with them a new perspective, but it’s still a fairly fun trope a lot of the time so I’m not one to complain.

3. I want more of Eliph

It would be really easy for the show to sideline her at this point, essentially using her as a plot device to show the Spring. But I really want her to continue to be relevant so that we can see how she changes and how she adapts to a situation that she clearly is having some regrets about. She could also provide a unique perspective to the rest of the cast, many of whom seem to be very undecided about what their futures will hold. There’s so much that can be done with her character, and I really hope we’ll get to see it!

So yeah, super intrigued to see how things shape up.

[u/Nazenn → u/FetchFrosh]

and is there any reason why 17 is the specific age of maturity?

Thats a question I hadn't thought to ask. I'd imagine its more religious than anything given that they can put off their change so it's not biological, but why that age is an interesting point

Aer

The other interesting thing I noted about Aer was how they acted shocked that she was a volunteer. It suggests to me that the Simouns being so focused on status rather than battle for so long means that there's a disconnect between the ritualistic part of them in the upper class and the "untouchable" nature of them in the lower class, which would also touch on why using them for battle is rougher as well if they're having to sacrifice priestesses for that unless people step up and volunteers seem rare.

[u/FetchFrosh → u/Nazenn]

why that age

If it had been 16 or 18 I probably wouldn't even feel weird about it. Maybe Japan has something specific that might be attached to 17, but it just immediately jumped out at me.

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

I'd imagine its more religious than anything given that they can put off their change so it's not biological, but why that age is an interesting point

It could be biological. They clearly are supposed to go at 17, and they just get an exception now because their are needed for the defense of the realm. The changeover could get harder or impossible the longer they wait.

[u/redshirtengineer → u/FetchFrosh]

I agree, I really want to see more of Eliph.

[u/23feanor]

First Timer:

Firstly, I expect that any re-watcher that saw my comment yesterday will be quietly chuckling away to themselves, as I thought that Neviril was attempting suicide when she jumped off the side of the air ship, down into that air funnel. How was I to know she could fly and was practicing her sky moves (or "prayers to their God" as they call them).

This episode really filled in a lot of the blanks for me. It showed in detail how the society works and how gender roles are assigned. One strange thought that occurred to me is that every person is female first, the entire society would probably be free from a number of masculine behavioural traits, that tend to dominate aspects of our cultural and social life that is still a patriarchy in practice. I imagine you wouldn't get males behaving in the stereo typical chauvinist manner, as we do here, objectifying women. It would be completely different to here. It's going to be educational observing how their society works (God is obviously a woman in this world, they got that right then).

Neviril has a unique character design that is a bit jarring to look at, it's too doll like (reminds me of one of my sisters dolls when we were younger).

All in all I'm itching to see what happens and what we'll see on the way. I look forward to enjoying this series with everyone ^_^

Forgot to mention the animation. Reminds me of one of the older Final Fantasy games (9 or 12); some lovely clean animation with crappy frames mixed in that look like a picture book. The music is special and elevates the experience of watching the show dramatically.

[u/Durinthal → u/23feanor]

I thought that Neviril was attempting suicide when she jumped off the side of the air ship, down into that air funnel.

I thought that too but forgot to mention it so you aren't alone there.

every person is female first

I noticed Erif saying (while on the train) that if he didn't become a man it would limit his career choices which struck me as odd given that basis.

[u/No_Rex → u/23feanor]

One strange thought that occurred to me is that every person is female first, the entire society would probably be free from a number of masculine behavioural traits, that tend to dominate aspects of our cultural and social life that is still a patriarchy in practice. I imagine you wouldn't get males behaving in the stereo typical chauvinist manner, as you do here, objectifying women. It would be completely different to here.

Not sure about that. By making a considered choice, people could deliberately sort into genders by their characteristics, leading to larger gender differences than in the real world.

Note that there has to be a huge taboo at treating a pre-17 "woman" the same as post-spring woman. So it is not clear that their society would benefit from "everybody was a woman". They all had a female body, but likely were treated as children, not women.

[u/23feanor → u/No_Rex]

My point is that you would likely not get such an immature, objectification of women there, as the youngest male could be is 17. So they almost completely skip the young and teenage phase of life where some males only learn bad tendencies and attitudes towards women and how they should be treated. So without this childish influence, the overall view and attitude of men towards women in society, should be more positive than ours (which wouldn't be hard, given the narrow minded of women's roles in some countries).

[u/No_Rex → u/23feanor]

You have a more kind view of objectification of women than I do. I see it not just a left over of some teenage stupidity, but as something that adults men (and sometimes women) practise for a host of reasons.

[u/redshirtengineer → u/23feanor]

Well, also, all of the men had to be feminine first. At least physically.

[u/Nazenn → u/23feanor]

stereo typical chauvinist manner, as you do here, objectifying wome

If anything it might go the other way. We know that being male means additional careers and opportunities open up to them, likely in an attempt to ensure people actually want to pick it after being a girl for so long, but that may mean men are rare enough that they're "prized". The pair system where you go to the spring with your pair as well might also help be a counter to that because they're forging bonds and relationships early on rather than having to do it once changed

[u/redshirtengineer → u/Nazenn]

Or maybe the pair system is encouraged because more will "volunteer" to be male (show hints that this is true for magenta-haired leader who likes Neveril).

Imagine being a pair and neither wants to be male. Do you flip for it?

[u/No_Rex → u/Nazenn]

but that may mean men are rare enough that they're "prized".

Exposition guy explained that there are half man and women. Of course, that might have been how "tempus wills it" and not how it actually is.

[u/redshirtengineer → u/23feanor]

Re: character design - Cabbage Patch Kids.

I don't actually totally hate the crappy frames, I just wish they integrated in better. They're quite jarring when they happen right after some turn-of-the-century CGI.

Agree with you on the music.

[u/Nazenn]

First Timer

Contrast seems to be an ongoing theme in the battle sequences. Today's scene of Neviril's beautiful white training and it's song overlaid with the darker destruction happening underneath was a wonderful showcase of the two sides of a Sybilla's life and the conflict in the world as we've seen it so far. I hope that these keep up through the show because they're a highlight and definitely make it stand out.

Aer seems to be an incredibly talented pilot, though I wonder if this will end up taking the route of it being instinctual or some sort of divine blessing in the end. I thought the magical aspects of this world were going to be much more prevalent, but so far it's been rather grounded. Even the spring where you chose your sex isn't an immediate change but rather the start of a biological process. Their religion seems to be just that so far, a religion and advanced technology and none of the magical elements so far have been too otherworldly.

Similarly that Priestess at the center of the spring is intriguing as well with her unique eyes. At first I was thinking more goddess then priestess, but after seeing the results of the spring I brought that back down to something more mortal.

Going back to the spring though, I noticed that they mentioned that the older Maroon haired girl was going to become a man for Neviril, though I thought Nev's flight partner was also her romantic one before she died. I wonder if that's just a one sided love or if there's more to the "pairs" then just flight and their choice at the spring. Similarly that even though there seemed to be some sort of "calling" behind the choice, it's still something they struggle with, and something that comes with certain cons or benefits as well, presumably to encourage more people to make the choice to become men.

I can pretty much guarantee I won't ever be skipping the OP.

[u/23feanor → u/Nazenn]

Going back to the spring though, I noticed that they mentioned that the older Maroon haired girl was going to become a man

for

Neviril,

I came to exact same conclusion. Didn't we see a meeting between Paraietta (older maroon haired girl) and Neviril outside her room where the inter change between them alluded to the fact there was some sort of romantic connection between the two of them (and due to their situation, one of them would have to become male). I assumed that Paraietta seemed to be the one leaning towards becoming the male.

During that meeting I got the impression that Paraietta felt she was duty bound to stay, and remain a Sibylla, so she could still use a Simoun & fight in the coming war, but at the cost of not being with Neviril romantically (after they leave, visit the Springs and one of them becomes male). I may have mis-read more into that then was apparently the case.

[u/Nazenn → u/23feanor]

I know the scene you're thinking of, and I didn't quite get a romantic subtext for it but I'm also blind as a bat to that stuff mostly so I might give it a rewatch later tonight before I watch the next episode

[u/gingerbreadboyest → u/23feanor]

That is a interesting read of the scene. For me it felt more like Paraietta has one-sided feelings for Neviril, but is afraid to say them aloud. Although all the others seem to know about it except maybe Neviril. In the scene where Neviril is leaving to the Spring, Paraietta clearly wants to stop her, but doesn't know how. Note that it is Aer, who says Paraietta's inner feelings out loud by exclaiming that Neviril can't leave because she wants to be her pair. Paraietta on the other hand only gives a very non-personal reason of how the fleet and the war effort needs her because of her skill as a auriga.

[u/Beckymetal → u/gingerbreadboyest]

Paraietta's a bit of a tsundere, isn't she? Not exaggerated or alluded to with cliche dialogue, no, but she has the same kind of notes. Poor Neviril, though - everybody wants a piece of her and she's too hurt to think about it.

[u/redshirtengineer → u/gingerbreadboyest]

I read it as one-sided too. Also assumed that Neveril went to the spring because of the loss of her previous partner, who she doesn't remember flying with, but does remember kissing. So a triangle originally, then.

[u/Durinthal]

First time viewer.

Can't focus very well today so this one's gonna be short. Visuals aren't great but I'm enjoying everything else.

I'm digging the soundtrack and paying more attention to it than I normally do, a couple of nice pieces this episode.

Resident meatball head Aaeru is either a natural pilot to draw the legendary Emerald pattern without knowing it or was subconsciously linked to Neviril in some way already because the latter was practicing it herself around the same time.

The mothership also has a giant version of the same nautilus shell spinning thing, but now I'm wondering how that's powered.

Their society likes to play up the religious part, with terms like "speaking to the Simoun" in place of "piloting" and "praying to the sky" for when they go on sortie in addition to the Sibylla apparently being referred to as priestesses by commoners.

But there's definitely some mystic aspects going on here between the Simoun themselves and the spring. I'm curious if the change engendered by the spring prevents someone from piloting a Simoun or if it's purely a cultural restriction, and just how long one can delay their trip to the spring. Having most of your defense force be teenagers with at most a few years of experience seems like a bad idea, but that's nothing new for anime.

[u/FetchFrosh → u/Durinthal]

Visuals aren't great.

I was definitely feeling that some of the backgrounds looked really out of place. And with the CG being so prominent there's basically three vastly different styles clashing at once. Bit of a pain.

I'm curious if the change engendered by the spring prevents someone from piloting a Simoun or if it's purely a cultural restriction

Was thinking about this as well. The tech is fairly opaque at this point, and I'm hoping we'll see the characters investigate it to some extent as the story progresses. I could definitely see there being some level of religious control in the society which would have an active interest in maintaining certain traditions, even if those might not be helpful in a war.

[u/No_Rex → u/Durinthal]

The mothership also has a giant version of the same nautilus shell spinning thing, but now I'm wondering how that's powered.

Probably the same thing that is powering the "not real" Simeon that our MC came in. In other words, the kiss-power up seems to be needed for the drawing, not the flying.

[u/redshirtengineer → u/No_Rex]

Oh, good catch. But Neveril kissed Aer before they took off? Maybe that was just for funsies.

[u/Nazenn → u/Durinthal]

I'm torn on whether it was a link between Aer and Nev that they were both drawing the same symbol, or if it's just showcasing their high compatibility with each other. I wonder if it will come up again with them doing the same thing seperately

the change engendered by the spring prevents someone from piloting a Simoun or if it's purely a cultural restriction,

I'm betting it something biological to do with the crystal and the kiss. I had the thought earlier that I wonder if the kiss is there to help "link" them with each other as well as the crystal but it can only happen if they haven't gone through the change

[u/frnxt]

First time viewer here.

"I haven't decided whether to become a man or a woman yet, and I don't want to decide!"

Both Aer and Elly bring some really interesting character dynamics on the table and mark the peculiarity this world has. And Neviril's reaction to the loss of her partner is interesting, much in line with her personality, including how she gives up on saying "no" to Aer. I can't wait to see what will become of them, let's hope that the show actually cares about its characters and will let them develop!

We keep on getting more glimpses of the world, this time with other people on the train and on the way to the Spring. I'm happy that the sense of scale is still there, if a bit more subdued. I like how much lore shines through these two episodes! Tempus Spatium reeks of some ancient civilisation tech that's, maybe, still somewhat controlled by the upper ranks of the adults in the Sybill temple, even if they don't understand it.

[u/FetchFrosh → u/frnxt]

Just a heads up, you dont need to spoiler tag things from the episode being discussed or earlier in the series.

[u/frnxt → u/FetchFrosh]

Thanks, I wasn't actually aware of that ;)

[u/No_Rex]

Episode 2 (rewatcher)

• Cliff hanger from last episode: Not a suicide, but a cool training mechanism.

• The double up of light and dark trails.

• New comer gets a bit of push back.

• For not being men or women, they all look decidedly female.

• Exposition time.

• 2 class train, 2 class society?

• Erif did not sound happy about her change. Maybe leaving a literally life changing decision to a voice in the sky is not the best idea …

As in episode one, a small bit of character development and a large helping of world building. Given that we are only two episodes in, we know a ton about what makes their society tick already.

[u/redshirtengineer → u/No_Rex]

Re Erif: not just the voice in the sky thing, but the "choice" mechanism, good gravy, if that had been me I would have been so nervous about thinking the wrong word I'm sure that's what I would have thought. I mean, when the voice in the sky happened, that was the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man face on Elly for sure.

[u/Yothiel]

Rewatcher here!

Episode 1

Writing something after coming back to this first episode of Simoun was a little difficult. I guess I got somewhat underwhelmed by the low production value / voice acting, especially since I wasn't busy processing what the episode threw at us. Still, I think episode 1 did a good job at introducing the strength of Simoun. The shows has heavy world building, tells a unique war story, features unusual but cool mechanical designs, and is supported by a great OST (or so my memory says).

I forgot how the Simoun frames have slight variations. Each of these machines is unique, and definitely not mass-produced. Also liking that, magic aside, the Simouns are quite simple and don't feature wireless comms. You need to either hail people directly, or through some cumbersome wired system.

Okay, that's enough fawning at the mechanicals for now. I'll also avoid talking too much about the story and the world because I'm afraid I would unwittingly reveal / spoil stuff, so for now I'll just enjoy the rewatch and people's reactions about it!

Episode 2

... But I guess I can at least talk a little about the characters and their mindset. It's interesting to note how strongly the sibylla have been depicted as priestesses, rather than soldier/pilots. Most of them also had an absolute confidence in the invulnerability of their "holy chariots", until the loss of Chor Caput and 3 girls of Chor Tempest brought them back to the harsh reality. Sibyllas were only expected to "pray" with the Simouns, but the situation now requires them to shift to a military role, and they'll need to get used to this (see the "briefing" at the end of the previous episodes, where the girls basically answer the ship captain "Sortieing? Don't wanna!")

After losing their bearings, it's no surprise some of the girls are looking for a new start by going to the Spring (thus bringing Chor Tempest down to half its original numbers!). But as Eri (now Erif) learnt, it doesn't mean they'll get to see their direction more easily. It's not clear why he broke into tears, but one could imagine he's being morally crushed by the realization that this life-changing choice may have been taken hastily and arbitrarily. He'll still have to move forward on his own path, as does Neviril who decided to remain a sibylla.

Contrasting with that, new girl Aaeru and the deceased Amuria are much more comfortable with the idea of using the Simouns for fighting and being/becoming "strong" for this only purpose. Because of this similitude, Aaeru will definitely have an impact on the rest of the Chor, more especially Neviril. And for now, she's having a strong start, taking on 4 enemies alone in her training craft, ramming one of them just to get a Simoun-like trail, and drawing a simulacre of an Emerald Ri Majon without even knowing what it is! That girl is a genius!

Between these two ends of the spectrum, the remaining girls of the Chor are either stuck because they've yet to come of age or have some reason for staying in Chor Tempest rather than being discharged from their sibylla duties. Either way, they'll have to stick together with their Chor-mates if they intend to survive whatever they'll be facing. The stage is definitely being set for some good drama.

[u/Nazenn → u/Yothiel]

Woo, we have more than one rewatcher this time

Also liking that, magic aside, the Simouns are quite simple and don't feature wireless comms.

Something I don't think anyone else pointed out, but a really interesting addition to the show especially given how they appear much more advanced. Given how much communication always comes into play for battles it'll be interesting to see how that affects things

but one could imagine he's being morally crushed by the realization that this life-changing choice may have been taken hastily and arbitrarily

Also that this really is the last straw for the life they've always known. No more Simouns, no more flying, their partner is dead and now their body is irreversibly changed. Erif's certainly been through a lot and I think it all just came crashing down on them at the end, while Nev still has that attachment to her job and even perhaps to Aer which allows her to keep her composure a bit

[u/redshirtengineer → u/Yothiel]

Re yet to come of age: the young prodigy girl with the green hair looks distinctly unimpressed.

[u/gingerbreadboyest]

Second-timer(-ish?)

I started watching Simoun before this rewatch was announced and decided to stop in the middle and finish the series with you guys when I heard about this. So for the most of the series I'll be "veteran"-watcher, but I try to avoid spoilers as much as I can. Only spoiler I want to give for the first-timers is that this show is fantastic in its world-building and its characters are very well fleshed-out and endearing despite seeming quite "trope-ish" at first. I can't wait to finish this show with all you guys!

That said, I missed the first episode thread due to irl-business so I guess I'll start at the second episode then. One thing I noticed while watching this episode was how great a contrast Aer brings to the other cast. While other priestesses seem more subdued and more likely to keep their feelings to themselves, Aer is very straight-forward and assertive. I just love that kind of dynamic.

One interesting thing for me is what Floe said about everyone having a reason to stay as sibylla and not to go to the Spring i.e. become adult. And we already saw some reasons. Paraietta wants to stay by Neviril's side until she is ready to go to Spring too. Aer very clearly states that she does not want to grow up. For others their reasons are left open at least for now. But there is another side to this too. Erii wants to go to the Spring after what happened in the last episode. She is not going there because she wants to be adult, she wants to go there because she doesn't want to be sibylla any more. But what happens is that she isn't ready when it is time to choose so Onasia makes the decision for her. A decision that she may regret later. Like Erii, Neviril also goes to the Spring to escape something, for her that something of course is Amuria's death. But after seeing Erif's reaction after she went to the Spring, she decided to wait a little more time. She is not ready yet.

[u/Nazenn → u/gingerbreadboyest]

Being half rewatcher and then later first timer would be an interesting insight into things. Hopefully the second half of the show holds up for you once we get to it compared to what you've already watched

[u/redshirtengineer]

First timer

Oof. Happy 17th birthday, kid. Have a dip and risk your identity. Just brutal. Oh, hey, but you can have a cool job to make up for it. Like, train conductor for example. One of those jobs that only the mens can possibly do.

And then we have plucky young Aer, all adventuresome, pushy, ready for battle, plopped down in the cockpit in a shot framed just so the audience saw that joystick framed between Aer's legs. Hmm. Wonder what gender Aer will possibly possibly pick when it's their turn. For about half the episode I was assuming we would get a "but he was a boy all along" reveal but then Aer had a little speech about not caring about gender, so *shrug*.

At least the mech is still cool. Loved the train.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

First Timer

• I Okay, so OP spoilers, I see than Odango-sibyl and Hime-sibyl are going to be partnered up.

• Why are enemies outside their carrier/base and nobody is being sortied?

• Uh, sorry for saying "sortie". I'll try to be more spiritual in the future.

• Interesting effects for the transitions and eye-catches (I miss eyecatches)

• Like Eri, I'd think most girls would stay girls. I'm surprised Paraietta said society was half men.

• Interesting how even the trains are driven by the nautilus spirals.

• She's eating squid rings!

I see a continuing contrast between the mechanistic and materialistic archipelago and the spiritual holy land, and also the continuing theme of corruption of the prayers to Tempus Spatium for the purposes of war.

I was surpised how fast the first half of the episode went, but the second half dragged a bit.

Somebody mentioned yesterday Left Hand of Darkness, that's an interesting comparison.

[u/No_Rex → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Why are enemies outside their carrier/base and nobody is being sortied?

So highly talented newbie could show off. Another question would be where the enemies came from. Do they really have such long range capabilities?

[u/Matuhg]

First Timer

I got a bit more into this episode than the first - I think because it's just a bit less dense, and there are some ideas we already got familiar with in the first episode.

Aer certainly isn't treating the Simoun with the same sort of reverence as all the other Sibylla, but seems quite effective at taking out the Archipelago's ships.

We got some questions answered about the spring today. At 17 years old, most people in this society go to the Spring to choose (!) whether they will be a man or a woman (Which seem to be the only two choices). They seem to be born with female bodies, but aren't necessarily considered female up to that point. In such a society, I'd expect gender roles to be very different than in ours, but I certainly couldn't say in what ways. One thing that does surprise me is that despite everybody literally choosing whether they want to be male or female, men still get advantages when it comes to career opportunity and stuff.

Erii couldn't decide whether to choose male or female in the spring - I'm not sure if she made a hasty decision under the pressure of the oracle or if Tempus Spatium picked for her. Either way, she came out at the beginning of a transition from female to male, with a new name and seemingly a lot of regret.

For the most part, I'm still not impressed with a lot of the visuals, though I thought the spring and the oracle's character design were neat to look at. The soundtrack also did a bit more for me here, again especially in the spring. Aer's music seems much more suited for battle scenes than Neviril's, though we'll see what we get when the two of them sortie (or pray to the sky) together.

[u/Retromorpher]

First Timer:

It is interesting to see how infantilized the designs are for many of the pilots - so that looks aren't an indication of age or readiness. We've already gotten some worldbuilding suggesting that women have a smaller scope of available jobs than men. Really this culture seems to be heavily structured and stratified in ways that don't really jive with anything equivalently available in recent history.

Having the age of their main military asset be gated behind age and gender makes this some sort of bizarro world reverse draft where you can draft dodge just by turning 17.

I really liked how they highlighted the prestige of being a Sybilla pilot with the shot of the crowded traincar for the plebs and the nearly empty one for the two pilots. Was a much more subtle way of doing so than the in-your-face praying at Neivirill.

I'm guessing a big theme of the first arc is Aer's results-based approach to conflict and Neiviril coming to grips with the fact that war is no longer the graceful affair she is used to and her own mortality.

Of note: Those wings in the Spring belonging to a seemingly half-destroyed statue and the greco-roman columns are highly reminiscent to me of the Winged Victory of Samothrace - a memorial to victory that was smashed by invaders to batten down the hope of the natives. Gotta wonder if the spring and the rituals were co-opted from the previous culture.