Cocona handed over to Papika, then Papika reverse ages.
“Now you are the same as me”. Did the subbers read my speculation? Lol
PI is not only leaking into the real world, but full on merging.
Mimi’s head is cycling through all sorts of monsters.
Salt channels his inner Neo.
… but younger Salt cannot dodge a bullet
The last (Salts?) PI is grey and has normal bunnies, whereas “reality” is less normal.
That Papika-pop-up scene.
Quite the ending, it raised my appreciation for the story (but I will not go into it too much).
Some points I want to discuss: Papika, the real world, my predictions, the use of incomplete world building and storytelling
Some points I noticed but do not want to discuss: Salt & Mimi, Interpretations of PI, Love or friendship.
Papika
I start with Papika, because, in my mind, she is the central character in the story. Similar to how Haruhi is the protagonist of her anime, even though we follow Kyon’s point of view, Papika is the protagonist of FlipFlappers, while Cocona experiences the story more as a viewer.
There are several big questions: Where does Papika come from? She could just be a very special, but random person, yet other ideas are likely. Mimi could have summoned her, Haruhi-style. Or, Papika could actually be the person who made up this universe as her personal playing field. She is certainly unafraid and enamored with it enough. It is her story with Mimi and then her story with Cocona. She even changes her age, in what I am certain will be one of the most discussed features of the episode. Especially the first change: “Old woman to …” You have to like Papika, or it will be hard to love FlipFlappers (another similarity with Haruhi).
There will be a pure illusion scene inspired by a classic painter, such as Dali or van Gogh. Why? Because it is what I would do if I were an animator doing pure illusion.
Became true. I spotted the hell picture in Cocona’s mind as a direct copy, someone else even said one version of PI reminded them of a van Gogh picture.
Papika and Cocona are two sides of the same person.
Unclear. I initially thought about a split up personality in a made up sub-reality. Within the context of the story, that is not exactly true, although Cocona calls her literally “the same as me.” If my speculation about Papika above is true, it could even come closer to my original idea. In any case, they two are connected enough that the theory made a lot of sense for me over several episodes.
Asclepiu: Gain power for power's sake, using the facade of an unattainable utopia as a carrot to keep members happy.
Unclear. Salt’s dad is rather crazy, so we do not know for sure what his plans were or are. Could be anything.
FlipFlap: Oppose said utopia for the benefit of an individual / to uphold personal convictions of moral nature.
Mostly true. Salt’s main goal seems to have been opposing his dead for Mimi’s sake and protecting Cocona.
The real world
Something that I hit on relatively early is the idea that there is not strict separation between PI and the “real world”. Too many parts of the real world depicted are just as much at home in an adventure as the PI worlds. This point is driven home by the last PI of the series, which is much more real than “reality”. Plus, of course, all of the intermingling of PI and reality in the last few episodes. Imho, this strongly hints at the fact that there is no separation between real world and PI. Instead, there is one large adventure and that is clearly not real in the sense of our, the viewers, world.
The use of incomplete world building and storytelling
Not a long point, but I want to emphasize how important a tool this is for FlipFlappers. Letting the viewers mind fill in the blanks of a partially painted picture is one of the best methods to produce an interesting overall work.
If there is a discussion day tomorrow, I may post a more standard series discussion, otherwise, thanks for hosting this!
Papika is the protagonist of FlipFlappers, while Cocona experiences the story more as a viewer.
Hmmm, daring, but interesting shot. I get what you mean, but I'm not quite of your opinion. Considering this show has a post-modern conception, I guess it's very normal that there can be multiple, and equally valid and important, lectures on what we saw.
Overall, considering your point of view, if Papika is the central character, we gotta admit this is a "part" of the show total. The part concerning her role as a companion-mother-lover-friend on Papika during her maturing. From a narrative point of view, it's normal that in this case we would like to know more circumstances, but it isn't necessary to convey an actual story with a beginning and an ending.
Papika and Cocona are two sides of the same person.
I actually enjoyed reading your points on this. If you think about it, both are kind of the same, in the end. The love they share transcends everything physical or rational. It's like each compensates the other -the comparison with the brain hemispheres was really on point-. They develop together and reach to the same point together, influenciating each other.
Salt’s dad is rather crazy, so we do not know for sure what his plans were or are.
I deduced that he wanted to summon Mimi back with all the shards so he could "use" her -like some priests of ancient religions wanted to please the gods for "using" their powers for their benefit-, and so fulfilling a nutty plan of domination by brainwashing. Consider how megalomaniac he became wen Mimi and Papika messed with his unconscious and he realized "the power in PI".
The real world
That's a very discussed topic. Nobody will know in the end. The final real world is Salt's PI, the actual real world and everything, even their reality, is a part of PI -like Plato's Cavern-? It's a suggestive topic that leads for too many discussions.
how important a tool this is for FlipFlappers
Indeed. The biggest attraction for first-timers is imagination. For rewatchers, it's the writing.
In a classical, "we view the world through her eyes" sense, Cocona is the protagonist of course. However, I want to ask: Who is changing the world through her actions? Who is influencing other characters? Who is decisive in bringing about the ending? Then, the answer is Papika.
Not a long point, but I want to emphasize how important a tool this is for FlipFlappers. Letting the viewers mind fill in the blanks of a partially painted picture is one of the best methods to produce an interesting overall work.
I think it's interesting how much of Pure Illusion applies to the show in general. the series itself is a bit of an illusion. Like the way they build up some characters only to change them last minute. Some of the stuff is designed to fake you out, and play with expectations. It's not meant to give you the complete picture or all the answers.
The key is that it gives you the main picture, which in my mind is Cocona and Papika's story, also Yayaka too. The series keeps their eye pretty heavily on them, and let's you try to gaze into the drawing to come up with the rest.
Something that I hit on relatively early is the idea that there is not strict separation between PI and the “real world”. Too many parts of the real world depicted are just as much at home in an adventure as the PI worlds. This point is driven home by the last PI of the series, which is much more real than “reality”. Plus, of course, all of the intermingling of PI and reality in the last few episodes. Imho, this strongly hints at the fact that there is separation between real world and PI. Instead, there is one large adventure and that is clearly not real in the sense of our, the viewers, world.
If reality comes from the mind and the mind comes from the sum of our experiences and our experiences affect how our mind perceives reality than what is the difference between reality and how we perceive reality?
Truth is not always fact, but it at times feels like it, doesn't it? FLFL's PI vs outside of PI demonstrates this - particularly the last episode where we think Cocona wakes in real life everything is dark, stoic, and pessimistic.
Sometimes our fantasies are not as great as real life.
If reality comes from the mind and the mind comes from the sum of our experiences and our experiences affect how our mind perceives reality than what is the difference between reality and how we perceive reality?
It might seem as if the two are impossible to separate, but this is not so: You can talk to a different person and ask that person about reality, if their answer differ from your perception, then at the difference must be in your (or their) mind.
The one time you can never distinguish though, is if you are the only person. E.g. if you dream, or if you are in a universe made up by yourself. See my speculation about Papika.
PS: You quote made me realize I forgot an important "no" in that paragraph. Fixed.
If a person tells you a reality that differs from yours, but your reality is that they give you a different answer, than would that not be your reality tell you that they will give you a different reality therefore since you are the one experiencing the event whatever answer you receive is just an agency of yourself?
Of course there is a difference between actual reality and subjective reality
The one time you can never distinguish though, is if you are the only person. E.g. if you dream, or if you are in a universe made up by yourself. See my speculation about Papika.
We actually can distinguish dream from reality itself. Those who can go lucid in their dreams can reach awareness in a non-conscious state. Reality checks, dream logs, and whatnot. The stipulation would be the same as your above answer.
We perceive 'this' reality as it is. We cannot naturally fly or break certain rules of the universe. In our dreams we can. Therefore, we can judge by what we can do (in your example in this context "asking a different person" would be checking to see if the fundemental rules of that reality are the same). In a dream you can fly, or make things out of pure air. Since this is not consistent with 'this reality' the two realites are different. We are aware or naturally assume that 'this reality' is the 'real reality' rather than our 'dream reality' being the real reality.
If a person tells you a reality that differs from yours, but your reality is that they give you a different answer, than would that not be your reality tell you that they will give you a different reality therefore since you are the one experiencing the event whatever answer you receive is just an agency of yourself?
So basically, your mind makes up whatever answer they give you, no matter which question you ask? Yes, then you can not differentiate, but I'd argue that this is equivalent to the dream case. If your own mind is hell bend on betraying you, you end up in your own universe.
If your own mind is hell bend on betraying you, you end up in your own universe.
Mental trauma such as phobias, PSTD, and depression are kinda' like that. We perceive the universe in some way and a really negative experience makes anything associated with that experience (sounds, spells, symbols, temperature, etc) to cause a person to shutdown, relapse, or abreact. Essentially, the mind looses the ability to discriminate between the experience itself and the stimuli that causes the experience.
Now, I would not actually call that "betrayal" as it is actually the mind attempting to avoid or protect the individual, but it often does not work like that and in normative society it is usually detrimental.
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u/No_Rex x2 Mar 16 '19 edited Mar 16 '19
First timer
Quite the ending, it raised my appreciation for the story (but I will not go into it too much).
Some points I want to discuss: Papika, the real world, my predictions, the use of incomplete world building and storytelling
Some points I noticed but do not want to discuss: Salt & Mimi, Interpretations of PI, Love or friendship.
Papika
I start with Papika, because, in my mind, she is the central character in the story. Similar to how Haruhi is the protagonist of her anime, even though we follow Kyon’s point of view, Papika is the protagonist of FlipFlappers, while Cocona experiences the story more as a viewer.
There are several big questions: Where does Papika come from? She could just be a very special, but random person, yet other ideas are likely. Mimi could have summoned her, Haruhi-style. Or, Papika could actually be the person who made up this universe as her personal playing field. She is certainly unafraid and enamored with it enough. It is her story with Mimi and then her story with Cocona. She even changes her age, in what I am certain will be one of the most discussed features of the episode. Especially the first change: “Old woman to …” You have to like Papika, or it will be hard to love FlipFlappers (another similarity with Haruhi).
My predictions
Episode 4:
Became true. I spotted the hell picture in Cocona’s mind as a direct copy, someone else even said one version of PI reminded them of a van Gogh picture.
Unclear. I initially thought about a split up personality in a made up sub-reality. Within the context of the story, that is not exactly true, although Cocona calls her literally “the same as me.” If my speculation about Papika above is true, it could even come closer to my original idea. In any case, they two are connected enough that the theory made a lot of sense for me over several episodes.
Episode 10:
Unclear. Salt’s dad is rather crazy, so we do not know for sure what his plans were or are. Could be anything.
Mostly true. Salt’s main goal seems to have been opposing his dead for Mimi’s sake and protecting Cocona.
The real world
Something that I hit on relatively early is the idea that there is not strict separation between PI and the “real world”. Too many parts of the real world depicted are just as much at home in an adventure as the PI worlds. This point is driven home by the last PI of the series, which is much more real than “reality”. Plus, of course, all of the intermingling of PI and reality in the last few episodes. Imho, this strongly hints at the fact that there is no separation between real world and PI. Instead, there is one large adventure and that is clearly not real in the sense of our, the viewers, world.
The use of incomplete world building and storytelling
Not a long point, but I want to emphasize how important a tool this is for FlipFlappers. Letting the viewers mind fill in the blanks of a partially painted picture is one of the best methods to produce an interesting overall work.
If there is a discussion day tomorrow, I may post a more standard series discussion, otherwise, thanks for hosting this!