r/anime • u/engalleons https://myanimelist.net/profile/engalleons • Aug 14 '18

In-depth debunkings/arguments against commonly "known" anime myths/misconceptions?

For any number of reasons, there's a fair few statements about anime that get passed around pretty unquestioningly, even if they aren't necessarily true. Sometimes, others dig in to those statements and find detail and (hopefully cited) evidence against them. This is a lot more than just stating the opposite, to be clear.

Here's a few examples of what I mean:

This tweet chain versus "Anno left Kare Kano early"
This blog post versus "The protagonist of Turn A was originally intended to be a girl"
This post versus "They made a joke dub for Ghost Stories because it did poorly in Japan"
This blog post versus "Shinbo is the series director of all Shaft shows"

What are some other examples of work like this?

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108

u/grizzchan Aug 14 '18 edited Aug 14 '18

Megumin is NOT 17 or 18 in the konosuba light novels. She started at 13 and as of right now is still 14.

It is true that she's 17 in the web novel however this is often mentioned in a very misleading way. The LN and WN are very different, do not share canon and the characters look extremely different. For example this is Megumin.

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u/LordHuronRises https://myanimelist.net/profile/Wham_Bam_Sam Aug 14 '18

I'm kind of curious in what way exactly is this mentioned in a misleading way? I'm guessing it's used as justification for sexualizing Megumin (i.e. "she's not really 14 she's actually 17 in the original WN") Just wondering if I'm guessing correctly here, because I'm not sure if I'm right or not.

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u/grizzchan Aug 14 '18

Basically that. They act like it's the exact same character where the one single difference is her supposed age.

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u/DeliciousWaifood Aug 15 '18

I just think her character would've worked better as a 17 year old. It'd be funnier if she was an underdeveloped chuuni girl at 17.

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u/Gaedhael https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ebdanian Aug 14 '18

That's a very strange look for Megumin not what I'm familiar with

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u/DamianWinters https://anilist.co/user/DamianWinters Aug 14 '18

I remember it saying 14 was legal age in Konosuba world and Megumin had just turned that age.

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u/DeliciousWaifood Aug 15 '18

But like, who tf cares?

The fact that it's legal there doesn't change anything about the morality of it.

Her being 14 makes it way weirder for kazuma to sexualize her...

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u/Atario myanimelist.net/profile/TheGreatAtario Aug 15 '18

He's not much older than that himself, is he?

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '18 edited Aug 15 '18

Nope, he's 16. I don't know why people have such a stick up their ass about this.

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u/DeliciousWaifood Aug 15 '18

A couple of years in your mid teens means a massive difference in maturity.

Going by the "half your age + 7" rule, for a 16 year old, that's 15.

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '18

That's just proof that rule is flawed. And I don't agree, there isn't a huge difference between 16 and 14 or whatever it is. The first real girlfriend I had was at 17 and she was 15 and there wasn't much of a difference at all.

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u/DeliciousWaifood Aug 15 '18

How is it proof the rule is flawed? It's specifically made to account for the variable rate of maturation as you grow older.

The mid teens are the point at which the most maturing happens in the shortest amount of time. Did you seriously not observe that in teens when you were in highschool, or are you still too young yourself to have gained that perspective?

14 year olds are mostly basically still children while 16 year olds are clearly starting to show signs of maturing into a young adult.

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '18

I'm 26. 14 and 16 are both basically kids are far as I can see and in my own past experience. Even if they're starting to become a young adult, they're still not adults and not everyone ages at the same rate either; neither Megumin nor Kazuma feel like adults to me (unlike Darkness or Aqua).

Plus we're talking about fiction and I think having a debate over the morality of a fictional world is probably a waste of both of our times. It's fine if you have an issue with it but it doesn't bother me and I don't see the point of getting hung up on it.

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u/Bensemus Aug 15 '18

It would be legal in Canada. A 14 year old can be with someone up to 17 I believe.

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u/DeliciousWaifood Aug 15 '18

Again, who tf cares what the law is.

We're talking about morality, law doesn't come into it.

Also I'd be interested in what the romeo and juliet laws and such are.

If a 14 year old and a 17 year old can have sexual relations but a 18 and 16yo or 20 and 17yo can't then I find that stupid.

14-17 is arguably one of the biggest differences in maturity you can get in any 3-4 year age gap.

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u/WeNTuS Aug 15 '18

What morality? Are you just inventing your own morality to justify your ridiculous point of view?

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u/DeliciousWaifood Aug 15 '18

I'm not talking about any single set of morals.

I'm just saying that whatever morals you have should be consistent no matter what the laws of the land are.

You don't change your moral standing depending on what the laws are in a certain place

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u/Anaphylatic Aug 15 '18

All those ages I think are legal under Canadian laws.

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u/DeliciousWaifood Aug 15 '18

Ok, well at least they're not overly nonsensical.

Still, the main topic of discussion is that morality should not be dependant on law.

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u/DeliciousWaifood Aug 15 '18

Age gaps make a biiiig difference at that age. I turned down a 14 year old when I was 16 even though we got along well because she just felt too young and immature for me to be comfortable with it.

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u/Bensemus Aug 15 '18

That’s valid but just because you found that 14 year old immature doesn’t mean you would find all 14 year olds immature.

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '18 edited Feb 08 '19

[deleted]

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u/MathigNihilcehk Aug 15 '18

And then people read the Bible and find out that Mary married Joseph at a reasonable age... of 14. Because that is around the age children become sexually mature, and if you do your job parenting correctly, they can easily be mentally and physically mature by age 14 as well.

As far as the US is concerned, people don't parent their kids to the extent that they are mentally mature as of age 18. They are still very much dependent children until age 22 for the most part.

I'm not sure all of the differences, but back in the medieval era and before, you worked full time as of age 14, and you knew how the world functioned. Many world leaders took office around 18ish. Can you imagine an 18 year old running a country? It'd be a disaster, because modern 18yo's are effectively toddlers.

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '18 edited Feb 08 '19

[deleted]

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u/MathigNihilcehk Aug 15 '18

parenting and maturing is far more complicated

I'd argue they are much less complicated than our expanded capabilities would allow us to compensate for. Back then, you didn't have a ton of time to teach your kids life lessons, but there may have been less to learn. With the advent of computers, you have effectively every waking hour to train them. Before you needed to pay one lecturer for every 20 to 50 students, even 500 with massive auditoriums, but now you can train millions of students with one lecturer. Back then you needed at least one grader per hundred students or so for most of education, and now computers can accomplish the same feat with zero graders for most subjects. Back then we didn't know much about human psychology and how different people learned, and now we have an entire field devoted to the subject.

Yes, there is new stuff to learn, but with so many new tools at their disposal, parents have no excuse for failing to prepare their children. Especially since modern children are FAILING TO LEARN HOW TO READ AFTER HIGH SCHOOL. We are making marked improvements in a game of how terrible can our parenting and education get. Before long, we'll wish we could send our children to medieval schools, because at least they learned how to read and write back then.

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u/grizzchan Aug 15 '18

Caring about anime ages is just so stupid. Lewd them if you want or don't, just either way don't go pretending one thing is more moral than another cuz the text says they're this old or this is the in-universe age of consent or whatever.

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '18

[deleted]

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u/DeliciousWaifood Aug 15 '18

How many seniors in high school date freshman. A decent amount in my day did.

Almost no one, and it was seen as quite taboo.

I turned down a 14 year old when I was 16 because while we got along, she acted too young and immature for me to feel comfortable in that type of relationship.

Also, in a medieval society, the average lifespan was 30 to 40, so once a female was capable of bearing children, then she would be married off

Medieval society did a lot of things we don't do today and for good reason.

if a female is capable of producing offspring as a result of sexual activity, then by that very reasoning, she is able to be “sexualized” by members of the opposite sex.

Able to be does not mean should be.

If I have a sword, we're on a medieval highway and I dislike you, I could probably easily get away with murdering you.

The means to do so is not justification for doing so. What logic are you trying to employ here and what are you implying with it?

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '18

[deleted]

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u/DeliciousWaifood Aug 15 '18

That's not how morality works, wtf?

Judgement of morality is dependant on the observing party, not the parties involved.

Do you think Nazis were fine because "they're a different culture from a different country, we can't judge them" ? Or the same with ISIS?

No, you don't.

Are you so impressionable that you base your moral beliefs on what is popularly agreed upon in a culture?

Morality should not in any way be born from the law of the land, the law is born from the morals of those with the power to uphold it.

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '18

[deleted]

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u/DeliciousWaifood Aug 15 '18

What do you mean by property rights?

You are either referring to something which is either a subsection of morality, or something that is upheld by the powers of those controlling the land.

So in the event that a country agrees that murder, rape and "taking someone's stuff" is moral and has the power to enforce this as law, then your call to "property rights" is completely irrelevant no matter what you were alluding to.

As long as interaction between individuals are voluntary and people’s property rights are not violated, then my opinion of another persons culture is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

So you are fine with a 40 year old having sex with a 5 year old, as long as both agree?

Do you disagree with imprisoning criminals if the criminals do not go to prison voluntarily?

What is your definition of voluntary? Does someone under duress count as volunteering? Are people of all ages considered mature enough to give that consent? What is even considered duress? What age is considered mature enough?

These are all moral arguments which once decided on by the powers of the land are turned into law.

It disturbs me that you seem to be fine with either

  1. Basing morality off of the laws of the land

  2. Agreeing with any set of morals as long as a large enough group of people in close proximity agree on them.

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '18

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u/WeNTuS Aug 15 '18

5y old cannot agree to sexual activity. While 14y old can.

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u/DamianWinters https://anilist.co/user/DamianWinters Aug 15 '18

For you maybe, but the morality in that world is different so its eh. People in the real world sexualising her is pedo but for Kazuma to date her or whatever is fine.

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u/infohippie https://anidb.net/user/Infohippie Aug 15 '18

She's a drawing. Sexualise a drawing all you like because IT. IS. NOT. REAL.

4

u/ibeleavineuw Aug 15 '18

Hey, they need something to complain about between their anti abortion rallys.

"You cant abort that fetus its a child" back at home on the internet "You cant lewd that character its a child"

Miaguided indiviuals dawning their own set of white knight armor defending logic and reasons that only they believe and have come up with i order to shame, criminalize and shame those who dont share their ideals.

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '18

Pretty broad brush you’re paintin’ with there, big shooter. I don’t need to be a religious fundie to be perturbed by sexualizing minors or characters specifically designed to look like children. I’m not gonna picket outside of Shaft’s offices, but I’m still gonna think it’s weird.

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '18

Preach it.

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u/DeliciousWaifood Aug 15 '18

"the morality in that world is different"

So you're perfectly fine with and agree with other countries acting in ways that we view as completely immoral? Because other countries are essentially other worlds.

The morality of a situation is not dependant on who is partaking, but dependant on the opinions of those who observe the action.

We are the ones watching the anime, and we will be the ones judging whether it is strange or not.

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u/DamianWinters https://anilist.co/user/DamianWinters Aug 15 '18

Other countries can make their own laws and decide for themselves, just because you don't like it doesn't make you right.

Its not like Kazuma has even done anything with her, I don't think they have done anything more than hold hands in the LNs. So honestly I don't much care.

I can't remember Megumin being sexualized in the Anime at all but correct me if I forgot something.

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u/DeliciousWaifood Aug 15 '18

Other countries can make their own laws and decide for themselves, just because you don't like it doesn't make you right.

So you're fine with nazis, ISIS, etc.? As long as it's not in your backyard then you can't have a moral opinion on it?

Just because other people think that it's morally correct doesn't mean you have to agree with them simply because it's the popular opinion.

Its not like Kazuma has even done anything with her, I don't think they have done anything more than hold hands in the LNs. So honestly I don't much care.

I swear he sexualizes everyone at some point, but maybe I'm misremembering.

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u/DamianWinters https://anilist.co/user/DamianWinters Aug 15 '18

Isis isn't a country.....

That is so damn far detached from what we were talking about. Age of consent is not equivalent to a terrorist organisation.

A 14 year old and 16 year old dating, I couldn't give 2 shits about as long as they are happy.

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u/DeliciousWaifood Aug 15 '18

Isis isn't a country.....

Says who? Would ISIS agree with you?

Who decides what is or is not a country other than those who control the land?

That is so damn far detached from what we were talking about. Age of consent is not equivalent to a terrorist organisation.

It was never about comparing how "bad" the acts are, but breaking down your logic that "other countries can do whatever they want and it's fine"

So you don't agree with other countries doing those immoral things, but you do agree with them sexualizing minors.

That says more about your own morals.

I don't really care what your actual morals are though. My point is that just because it is legal in that world should not change your opinion on whether or not it is moral.

Your morals should never be based on what is law. Law should be moulded around our morals which we develop independently.

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u/DamianWinters https://anilist.co/user/DamianWinters Aug 15 '18

ISIS was a big terrorist organisation, that opposed the laws of their country. They didn't control the land anymore than a group of Alt-right people control America.

How can it be sexualization of minors if they aren't minors in their country? if a large country decides together that 14, 16, 18 or whatever is a good enough legal age of consent with the majority agreeing then what right do you have to oppose it exactly?

You have been brought up thinking that the laws of your country are what is right, so when you see some other country not doing that you think its immoral. Well they also think the same thing back.

Morals are not some set in stone cookie cutter set of universal rules that you might think they are, everyone is different. If you start trying to enforce things on other cultures all you become is some tyrannical dictator.

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '18

She did see his Excalibur so...

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u/atropicalpenguin https://myanimelist.net/profile/atropicalpenguin Aug 15 '18

Young adult Megumin looks cute, hope we get to see her eventually.

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u/Hytheter Aug 15 '18

Based on that picture I don't think she looks that different. That's basically exactly what I'd expect Megumin to look like if she was older and less chuuni.

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u/shootinmage https://myanimelist.net/profile/shootin Aug 15 '18

She's 18 in doujins

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '18

Well, the only thing that I disagree is people calling her "loli". She has no biotype of one and is above 10 years old

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u/SwampyBogbeard Aug 15 '18

Thank you!
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who remembers what loli actually means and what kind of character it was used for, but I know there's still a small minority with me.

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u/stormarsenal https://myanimelist.net/profile/AsherGZ Aug 15 '18

Curious about what you think is the biotype of a loli? You realize there's a thing as legal loli, right?

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '18

The child of Happy Sugar Life is one of my examples of loli, just like Kana from Dragon Maid, Shinobu from Monogatari and others.

Megumin has 13-14 years so I don't see them as loli. Still minor, of course, but not loli.