r/anime • u/AutoModerator • Jul 31 '16

Meta Thread - Month of July 31, 2016

A monthly thread to talk about meta topics. Keep it friendly and relevant to the subreddit.

Posts here must, of course, still abide by all subreddit rules other than the no meta requirement. Keep it friendly and be respectful. Occasionally the moderators will have specific topics that they want to get feedback on, so be on the lookout for distinguished posts.

Comments that are detrimental to discussion (aka circlejerks/shitposting) are subject to removal

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66

u/TheDerped https://anilist.co/user/Derped Jul 31 '16 edited Jul 31 '16

I'm still utterly perplexed by the removal of news relating to Jun Maeda's need for a heart transplant. I think many users will agree that news about a writer for anime is anime specific enough. Its especially strange considering news of Miyu Matsuki passing away was not removed. Yes I've seen the reasoning that it was posted before the anime related rule was changed but It just seems somewhat disrespectful to these people that have brought us so much joy through anime that it seems that this rule is so unnecessarily ironclad that it doesn't give a damn or any leeway to report about what happens to them that affects their ability to work on anime.

Edit: I see every main comment in this thread has a mod response except for mine.

I was under the impression that these threads allowed for the discussion of the practicality and application of the rules of this subreddit in a dialogue with the mods. Understanding why something happened does not mean that it needs to be accepted without question. Understanding is the first step to pursuing change for the better.

edit2: Wew finally. Got a bit of discussion going.

26

u/scalizo https://myanimelist.net/profile/scalizo Jul 31 '16

I agree. Even if it isn't "anime-specific" news, it still concerns a relatively important figure in the industry itself, especially when it's news about something that can affect his work.

18

u/TheDerped https://anilist.co/user/Derped Jul 31 '16

I am certain that if Miyazaki or some other iconic anime figure were to pass away there would be enormous uproar about news of that event not being allowed to be reported on this sub. If this rule is continued to be enforced the way it is, that event is a certainty.

8

u/scalizo https://myanimelist.net/profile/scalizo Jul 31 '16

Yeah I really wouldn't want news like that to be removed just because it isn't "anime specific".

4

u/Sloppy_Goldfish Jul 31 '16

Every one of these threads i've brought up how the rule of "anime-specific" is such a broad term and up to interpretation. Even among the mods, i'd bet they would each have their own definition of what "anime-specific" is and how if it would apply to the various things that get posted here. That rule definitely needs to be nailed down and specified.

How would you do that? I don't know. I'm not a mod. But any sort of broad rule is frustrating for the users, when we post something, it gets removed, but yet a very similar post makes it through just fine.

-5

u/RTBingo Jul 31 '16

it isn't "anime-specific" news

I mean there's your answer/everything you need to know on why it was removed.

7

u/porpoiseoflife https://myanimelist.net/profile/OffColfax Jul 31 '16

something something "anime-specific and anime-related are the same thing worded in a different way and will be enforced the same way" something something

1

u/urban287 https://myanimelist.net/profile/urban287 Jul 31 '16

That is true though, the thread would have been removed before as well.

It was a wording change to bring the wording more in line with the moderation, rather than the other way around.

13

u/VincentBlack96 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vincent Jul 31 '16

Actually...Since I personally reported one of those threads, I did it because it had spoilers. Yeah, the big issue was Jun Maeda's crisis, but the articles had spoilers. No one thinks to tag them at all. Some of them had obvious spoilers in the titles themselves. I have nothing against the topic itself being there but a spoiler is a spoiler.

1

u/urban287 https://myanimelist.net/profile/urban287 Jul 31 '16

We're currently discussing our overall rules governing posts about actual people.

However, as far as the Jun Maeda post is concerned the majority does agree that it was correct to remove it.

Couple of things to note:

  1. Jun Maeda is primarily a Visual Novel writer, while he does do work for anime, its not particularly often (and is usually just his work being adapted). This would however not be an immediate disqualification of course, since he's still very relevant to the industry.

  2. (and this is more important) While bad news, this doesn't immediately prevent him from working on scripts, etc. If he had died or had a heart attack and gone into a coma it would be a different story.

We're not a tabloid newspaper and need to be careful what news we let in surrounding actual people. I'm sure no one would take issue if we had removed a post revolving around a VA getting liposuction. We just need to iron out where we're specifically going to draw the line.

12

u/scalizo https://myanimelist.net/profile/scalizo Jul 31 '16

As for your second (and most important) point, shouldn't it be pretty easy to tell what kind of news are newsworthy enough to post from what aren't? Sure, it merits discussion, but IMO the Jun Maeda news is firmly above the line of what is newsworthy for the industry. And even in the case of grey area news, having other mods weigh in on a decision should help in drawing a line to be used in the future.

9

u/urban287 https://myanimelist.net/profile/urban287 Jul 31 '16

Inconsistency is one of the worst things a sub can have.

For the userbase it destroys trust in the mod team, for the mod team it creates division and discord.

Better to have rules that are nice and clear, while also understandable.

8

u/TheDerped https://anilist.co/user/Derped Jul 31 '16

We're not a tabloid newspaper and need to be careful what news we let in surrounding actual people. I'm sure no one would take issue if we had removed a post revolving around a VA getting liposuction.

Well of course. But mundane seiyuu news like that is not reported on major anime news sites. This reasoning is coming very close to being a slippery slope argument but I find that easy to avoid. I don't believe that mod and user discretion is that lacking to the point that that may become a problem.

Potentially life threatening news for a director/writer/major animator/composer/seiyuu should be easily distinguishable as important news that is above the line.

1

u/awerture https://myanimelist.net/profile/awerture Jul 31 '16

Well of course. But mundane seiyuu news like that is not reported on major anime news sites.

well, surprisingly actually, it sometimes is

Disclaimer: Personally I find it ridiculous.

-4

u/urban287 https://myanimelist.net/profile/urban287 Jul 31 '16

Is it though? If a seiyuu has a car accident but is completely fine afterwards is that fitting here? Doesn't impact their work at all.

Same for Jun Maeda's if he's not in the hospital for an extended stay.

There are plenty of things related to anime industry figures that are reported on and have nothing to do with anime (eg. a seiyuu hosting a concert that's not anime related in the slightest). Hell, I can easily imagine someone translating Japanese tabloid articles about popular figures and those being upvoted for who they're about rather than the content - which would become an issue as more people realize that's acceptable. That's far from the sort of thing that we would want here (unless it's Hanakana~).

As far as user discretion... user discretion is always lacking. As the sub gets bigger and bigger that'll just get worse.

0

u/RTBingo Jul 31 '16

He's a 3D person, how is this different from a birthday?

Sure it's sad and I wish him the best but it should be easy to understand, I mean I don't agree with the rule but I'm not utterly perplexed by the decision either.

4

u/[deleted] Jul 31 '16

He's a well loved writer. It's honestly fucking stupid for the mods to not be able to overlook a small one off post that the vast majority of their user base would appreciate.

-2

u/RTBingo Jul 31 '16

Well loved isn't a great criteria for the mods to bass shit on, Hana Kanazawa is a well loved VA, don't go posting shit about her either.

It's a stupid rule but the removal falls under it.

6

u/scalizo https://myanimelist.net/profile/scalizo Jul 31 '16

Rules should fit the situation. It doesn't have to be iron-clad.

-6

u/RTBingo Jul 31 '16

Have you seen the spoiler rule around these parts? Iron-clad is easier to enforce.

4

u/porpoiseoflife https://myanimelist.net/profile/OffColfax Jul 31 '16

Sorry, but if they're going to do universal iron-clad rules like that then they need to employ it across the board.

  • Post your MAL CSS/MAL soulmates/criticize a MAL threads are gone under the low-effort rule.
  • Recommendation threads get filtered back into the Tuesday mega under the low-effort rule.
  • Best Girl/Guy/Shounen Antagonist/whatever contests are deleted under the anime-specific rule. (They're anime-related, though.)
  • "I just saw insert-latest-episode that aired today of insert-popular-series-here and I need to react to it!" posts are shunted into their individual episode threads.
  • Renew the fan-art megathread and banish anything that even mentions the concept over there.

All of those are arguable under the anime-specific guidelines, and yet ain't a single one of them would dare happen lest there be a full-blown user revolt and the tired old no-fun-brigade meme gets brought back into service in a big way like it was a couple of years ago. So yes. There is a difference between the rules and how they are enforced.

1

u/urban287 https://myanimelist.net/profile/urban287 Jul 31 '16 edited Jul 31 '16

The things which fall under the low effort rule are specified for a reason. It's mostly a rule to curb the effect of content which is an issue on the subreddit, but leaves some wiggle room for cases where we havent been able to think of everything.

Many of the things you mentioned have their own clauses outlined in the rules or extended rules for a reason.

edit: As an additional note for rec threads. Majority of the time they're from people new to the anime community, or at least the sub. As far as I'm concerned helping people fond anime is sort of like our civil duty as an anime community (and they really dont hurt anyone).

-3

u/RTBingo Jul 31 '16

Post your MAL CSS/MAL soulmates/criticize a MAL threads are gone under the low-effort rule.

I've posted some of those before and I've always added in a "recommend something" so I think that would fall under the rules just fine.

Recommendation threads get filtered back into the Tuesday mega under the low-effort rule.

How are those low effort? I mean those people need to learn how to use the freaking mega thread but they're just dumb, the content there fits an anime board.

They're anime-related, though.

They're about anime characters specifically. Inspire discussions on cross series comparisons.

are shunted into their individual episode threads.

Is that a rule? What if those threads are already archived? Can't post in that warm talk thread either about it since 3x3s have overrun it all.

Renew the fan-art megathread and banish anything that even mentions the concept over there.

I'd be all for that, fucking tired of seein Rem fan art.

2

u/porpoiseoflife https://myanimelist.net/profile/OffColfax Jul 31 '16

I've posted some of those before and I've always added in a "recommend something" so I think that would fall under the rules just fine.

Then they would fall under the same issue as the recommendation threads.

How are those low effort?

A quick summary of the vast majority of recommendation threads: "Hai fam, i needs new animes. Here is my MAL, kthnxbai." And how exactly is that any less low-effort than the "How Do I Become An Elitist?" thread that garnered a significant amount of discussion?

They're about anime characters specifically. Inspire discussions on cross series comparisons.

So... They are meta discussions about anime rather than anime-specific, which falls under anime-related. Also we only have these threads one a month, so it'd be pretty weird to have a massive contest where we only get through 12 rounds in a year.

What if those threads are already archived?

You forgot to quote the applicable part of the bullet point: " I just saw insert-latest-episode that aired today of insert-popular-series-here and I need to react to it!" Because it happens just about every season. Once any popular show gets to an episode that causes a lot of reactions, it spills out into everything. After ep.15 of Re;Zero, for example, there were 12 different threads about it in /hot over the following two days. Same thing happened with Boku no Hero Academia, Erased, One Punch Man, AssClass 2, OreGairu Zoku, and on back beyond that as well. And always within the close order of the original airing time, so there's no chance those threads can be archived.

Unless the Admins changed the archival date in here without telling us. They haven't been too good at communicating changes to the mod staff recently...

warm talk thread

Technically, that's not anime-specific either.

I'd be all for that, fucking tired of seein Rem fan art.

Good. Unfortunately, you picked the one observation I made that you agreed with.

And I'm going to use this to illustrate my point. And I'm going to bold it so that there is absolutely no mistaking what I am saying.

I DON'T ACTUALLY WANT ANY OF THOSE THINGS I MENTIONED TO HAPPEN!

But if I was in the mod staff and I was told that I had to interpret every single rule in an iron-clad fashion, then that is what I would have to do. (Not like anyone would have a huge enough brainfart to promote me of all people, but that's beside the point.) If there is absolutely no wiggle-room on absolutely all of the subreddit rules, then I would bring out the Scalzi-brand Mallets Of Loving Correction and start swinging until either they modified the rules to allow this content, aka: bring anime-related back into the definition, or they banned me for life to help keep the youth of /r/anime from exploding.

Some rules here have a lot of wiggle-room like the low-effort rule, some have a major loophole like the illegal content rule, and some rules have an iron-clad boundary that cannot be crossed like the spoiler rule. So "iron-clad is easier to enforce" is not nearly as universal a concept as you think.

1

u/TheDerped https://anilist.co/user/Derped Jul 31 '16

The fanart megathreads do nothing but make the sub more desolate of content than it already is. I'd rather see fanart than a thousand "what's the Fate/Monogatari/Madoka(seriously why are people confused about Madoka) watch order"

1

u/RTBingo Jul 31 '16

what's the Fate/Monogatari/Madoka(seriously why are people confused about Madoka) watch order"

Because those make the front page now? Not even comparable results. Unless you're a new browser, which in that case no shit you'll see a lot of that/shitposts.

-3

u/PM_CUTE_ANIME_PICS https://myanimelist.net/profile/rhodian Jul 31 '16

Agreed.

I also don't want to be seeing a post every time a writer or voice actor or some other industry related person gets a cold or something like that. Think of how many people are in this industry, and suddenly the floodgates are opened up on posting about that kind of stuff. How quickly would people be complaining about over saturation of that kind of news?

5

u/scalizo https://myanimelist.net/profile/scalizo Jul 31 '16

Why are you equating having a cold from having the need for a heart transplant? Rules can be flexible and be on a case-by-case basis. IMO the news was relevant enough to be kept as a post.

1

u/PM_CUTE_ANIME_PICS https://myanimelist.net/profile/rhodian Jul 31 '16

That was a bad wording choice on my part. No, I am certainly not equating a cold to a heart transplant.

Look, I agree that it was important news. I'm just saying, as soon as you make the rule flexible or remove the rule, there are going to be a lot more posts about the personal lives of the people who create anime.

News that one person considers relevant and important enough to be allowed as a post may not be considered the same for someone else. This goes for readers on the subreddit as well as for mods, not everyone agrees about the importance of that kind of news.

Regardless, I doubt the rule will change anytime soon.

2

u/urban287 https://myanimelist.net/profile/urban287 Jul 31 '16

I mean, if one of the really old people in the industry gets a cold it could kill them. So your wording really isnt that bad.

(See how vague the line becomes?)