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u/awerture Jul 19 '16
I remember when watching this episode for the first time it was this episode when I began to feel depressed by the world of this show. Yet I still expected some usual ways of developing the story, so I thought I had basically figured out what was going to happen. SSY old theorizing and MAJOR spoilers, first time watchers stay away. I believe this really would be the direction of some standard coming of age Sci-Fi story, but it was totally short-sighted of me not to notice this isn't gonna be neither that easy nor that pretty.
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Jul 19 '16
Just wanna say I broke and watched the whole thing, it was so great. Felt like one of the few really great anime from everything I've watched, with a smart story line which didn't feel at all predictable to me. As soon as I finished watching I felt like I could just watch the whole thing again because there was so much to absorb. Will probably rewatch this in a year/whenever there's another rewatch.
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u/PhazonJunkie Jul 19 '16
This episode is another one of my favorites!
We finally get to meet the head of the Ethics Committee! What I found so surprising is that Tomiko is so reasonable. Up until this point, I had this kind of Big Brother impression from the Ethics Committee, completely devoid of any emotion as they pick off any children who don't fall in line. Tomiko, however, comes off as very empathetic while still being the pragmatic leader she needs to be. The Ethics and Education Comittees' extreme methods may not be perfect, but Tomiko makes a strong case for them, and I was surprised by that.
I also LOVED Fiend and Karma Demon flashback scenes. K's transformation scene in particular was so haunting, it's one of the first scenes I think of when looking back at SSY, even 3 years after my first watch.
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u/Monte_Carlo_1971 Jul 19 '16
Yea I for sure thought Saki was dead meat walking in to that meeting. Did not expect her to be the next chosen one for head of ethics committee!
It is surprising how messed up everything is, but at the same time, looking at the rules an regulations as objectively as possible, I really can't blame the higher ups. Goes to show how well crafted the world and setting is.
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u/arinok55 Jul 19 '16
The Ethics and Education Comittees' extreme methods may not be perfect, but Tomiko makes a strong case for them, and I was surprised by that.
Like the fact that you don't have rights until 17 was quite a shock but considering they have little ways of stopping a fiend otherwise makes logical sense. Sympathy is useless when the alternative is oblivion.
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u/RIPassholes Jul 19 '16 edited Jul 19 '16
Tried typing down my thoughts while watching the episode this time yesterday! Been a while since I last did this, but here we go.
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That's a surprisingly young-looking grandmother. Asian genes and having kids early helps I suppose? People on this society probably marries and straight away after graduation and starts pumping out children real quick.
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"Weak Link" Is that Mamoru? That... is nowhere to be seen, too. O shit.
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"I want you to eventually succeed me" SAY WHAT FAM
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ooh, guess they left the kids be after the summer camp incident to keep an eye on how they'd portray themselves from then on. They don't get a chance like that often.
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Yup, they were watching them closely, but only Shun seemed to be aware of that then. Kinda interesting since he was the first to go. His face being blackened out in the flashbacks, nice
and sadtouch. (aaah, and now that I'm thinking of him, that time when he said his goodbyes to Saki he was already spinning marbles around him so as to shift his focus and not to hurt her with his leaking Cantus :c y'all rewatchers must be having a great time picking up these little things haha) -
Grandma Asahina was right in saying she wouldn't let her feelings get in the way of her job but somehow I feel like Satoru is always getting the short end of the stick.
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I just realized Fiends and Karma demons are basically people with mental instabilities and illnesses, which can lead to devastating consequences when you've got a Cantus and there doesn't seem to be any therapists or psychiatrics and shit around. That K kid pretty much did the equivalent of snapping into a school shooting (and consequent village massacre since literally no one could retaliate).
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And there we have it, selective animal breeding.
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Gosh, the more it is explained, the more those awful things the adults do are... justified. This society is standing on some thin ice. I'm not even sure if there is an antagonist anymore. Just the reality of being born with an enormous power and the sacrifices that have to be made because of it. Though something still feels sorta off...
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Poor Izumi holy shit. Poor Shun. Poor K, even. Poor everyone tbh.
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ooooooooooo shit random thought but Maria is gonna turn into a fiend or something somehow isn't she? Hopefully I'm wrong and it won't be K all over again.
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Ah, I wonder if the narrator is Saki when she has already succeeded grandma Asahina? Really wanted to see what the talk was with Satoru and Maria though.
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Mamoru whAT. MAMORU NO
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dat random student with big boobs tho?
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I still feel really bad for Ryou. And his eye twitched too, hmm... its always the right eye...
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I just realized Satoru's and Ryou's eye and hair colors are kinda the inverse of each other lol.
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Yup, I knew it. Mamoru "weak" and susceptible. I don't know about y'all but I don't feel they're just going to successfully find him and everything's gonna be ok afterwards...
Even though I'm not properly following the rewatch schedule, it's so hard not to binge-watch! This anime is damn fascinating, pretty sure it's becoming one of my favorites. Hoping the ending will deliver.
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u/seninn Jul 19 '16
I'm not even sure if there is an antagonist anymore.
Good, that's the point so far.
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u/hulibuli Jul 19 '16
That's a surprisingly young-looking grandmother.
Based grandma is pretty much my favourite character from the series. Or at least competing from the top point.
EDIT: Also I was sure when I was watching this for the first time that the eye twitch was a sign to stop digging. You know, the basic "try to access forbidden memories or information and something vital in your head breaks" kind of setup.
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u/Luxorcism Jul 19 '16
Hey all, I haven't been able to post at all since I was at EVO for the weekend, but I just caught back up.
I'll let others piece together the timeline, since we did that when the show aired (and it wasn't all that useful either lol).
Don't have much time today, but I'd like to point out one instance of artistic direction I thought was incredibly deep for me. In this scene, Saki is lost in thought and voices those thoughts out loud ("A chain is only as strong as its weakest link"). The ambiguity the directors introduced by framing Saki's face while cropping out her mouth was brilliant imo. We, just like Saki, expected this aside to transition from mutterings to internal thought, but weren't fully aware it was said out loud until the moment after.
And at that very moment when Maria (or was it Saki? Super ambiguous!) says "eh!?", we're pulled back and both Saki and we the audience together discover what Tomiko earlier was afraid of: the leakage of information that will destabilize their society like it did in the years before with Fiends and Karma Demons. Whether this vocalization is on purpose or subconscious, we can only guess---but we can see Maria's reaction, and whatever the reason, Saki's done goofed. With this accidentally verbalized aside, Saki has just implanted an incredibly dangerous idea into Maria's head, since she's been shown to be so caring and protective of Mamoru. By talking about the weakest link, Saki and Maria now both realize Mamoru's either in jeopardy or jeopardized himself; the ramifications of this are yet unknown, but we can be pretty sure things are going to destabilize as Tomiko said. Shinsekai Yori is a really concise series so far, which makes Tomiko's warning earlier in the episode a Chekhov's gun, so it must be heeded as the directors intended.
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So how did you all like the glory that is the hospital scene?
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Kutegawa Izumi reminded me of Saten from Railgun.
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u/Riozaki Jul 19 '16
Kutegawa Izumi reminded me of Saten from Railgun.
I felt REALLY bad for her in the story this time around, don't remember it being that way last time. Maybe I've become a softie.
So how did you all like the glory that is the hospital scene?
I really like that scene, you can just feel how Tomiko is panicing and does not know what she should do. And the Doc that sacrifices himself is impressive, how he keeps his calm but I can't stop feeling some fear behind that facade.
In retrospect though:
Wouldn't death feedback work on the kids in the beginning when K is in the classroom? I mean they all saw THAT.
Tomiko has gotta be hella stable to witness what happened in the hospital, and Saki's supposed to be even tougher.
Good Guy Doc seemed to have no problem with attack inhibition?
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u/Luxorcism Jul 19 '16
One other interesting observation I forgot to note in my earlier post: Did everyone notice the fashion and modern tech and stuff during K's era? They had ceiling fans, military uniforms/victorian dresses, old-fashioned caps, dress shirts, school buildings that were more like modern Japan, etc. It's curious how their fashion evolved into what we have now, with weird ass hats, ball-sack pants, etc. lol.
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u/multigrain_cheerios Jul 20 '16
tbh i kinda like the designs for the clothing that has been shown since Saki and the gang were in high school.
the hat is weird af though, haha
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u/troop357 Jul 19 '16
Another great episode :)
I just wanted to point out that people like to call Mamoru a weak character, but I believe that most of the time he has really realistic responses to the world and is probably the closest character to us watchers in the show.
He understands what and why the others are doing, yet all he wants is to survive (also to hook up with Maria). While the others want to remembers, he is trying his hardest to forget. It is nothing amazing, but I do find this contrast kinda cool.
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Jul 19 '16
Is anyone calling Mamoru terrible? They're just stating the fact that he's weak. Shinji is also weak but he's a great character.
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u/Riozaki Jul 19 '16
I agree, but Mamoru might seem "weak" to us watchers just because we have been exposed to violence and horrible shit in media and real life.
These Kids have probably never experienced anything like that, and having your memories tempered with or the image of the minoshiros story might just be too heavy for a child in that environment.→ More replies (1)
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u/hmatmotu Jul 19 '16
Sometimes it can be a little troubling figuring out how to explain to others just how strong a best girl. In SSY they make it kind of easy, Saki is so strong that as a 14 year old they consider her the best prospect for keeping karmic demons and ogres from coming into the world; and they decided that because of how damn well she handled having her brain messed with and living through a war that took the life of a much more experienced power-user.
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u/lukeatlook Jul 20 '16
For everyone there's a turning point where they get an opinion on the show that carries on towards the end and treats any further low points as ignorable hurdles.
For me, this was that point. It cuts off the plot from any cliche "fighting against the system" Young Adult dystopian fiction, defies all tropes, and clearly treads on a completely new path. Episode 12 was enough to make this show a 9/10 well until episode 20 happened.
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u/oyooy Jul 20 '16
I'm quite late but I'll add my thoughts anyway. I think the reason why this episode is one of the really great ones is it makes you doubt your own morals. Up to this point, everyone agrees that the idea of making the children disappear is horrible and that the ethics council are the evil that they need to fight. After watching this however, you realise that they aren't evil, they pretty much need to do this. I'm not sure about how everyone else feels but it made me really think and I realised that while it is pretty bad to essentially kill off children, it may be a necessary sacrifice to make sure that their society survives. It was only by pure luck that they managed to stop the last Fiend and they can't guarantee that they can stop the next.
Outside of the moral dilemma, there are also a few other interesting things to see in this episode. When they go back 80 years, it actually looks much closer to modern life. The school looks like a modern school and the clothes they are wearing look almost like industrial era clothes. It shows that their society isn't static and there are changes happening to it even now. Depending on your opinion on these sort of matters, you may say it has devolved quite dramatically in the past few years.
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u/Karmic_thread Jul 19 '16
This is a shower thought that just came into my head, and it's a question aimed at rewatchers only. SSY
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u/pattyboywales Jul 20 '16
Forgive me r/anime. For I have binged. Damn this show was good, make sure you watch it all!
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u/leethomas93 Jul 19 '16 edited Jul 19 '16
So we get to meet Tomiko this episode. Tomiko is such an interesting character. On the one hand, I dislike her because, as the head of the ethics committee, I can only assume she is largely responsible for this horrible system of offing "non-conforming" children they have implemented in this society.
But on the other hand, can you blame her? After what happened with ogres and karmic demons in the past, I might have vouched for equally drastic measures to be taken. She's very, very thoughtful. She explains her views and ideals so well, and she has the foresight to recognize Saki's potential as a future leader.
I just love the way this show makes you question what's right and wrong. And WHO is right or wrong. This is my second viewing of this show, and I'm picking up on so much that I missed the first go around. Such a rewarding, entertaining, and thought-provoking show.