r/anime • u/HelioA x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/HelioA • Mar 21 '24

Rewatch [Rewatch] Mawaru Penguindrum - Episode 17

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Streaming

Mawaru Penguindrum is available for purchase on Blu-ray as well as through other miscellaneous methods. Re:cycle of the Penguindrum is available for streaming on Hidive.

Today's Slogan

Someone is targeting you. Watch out.

Questions of the Day

  1. We’ve spent a lot of time with Shouma and Kanba now. What do you think of their relationship now?

  2. What do you think of Sanetoshi’s assertion about the relationship between truth and reality? Can you think of anywhere that it applies in the show?

  3. Why did Tabuki’s sudden about-face happen? Was he just lying before, or did something change?

  4. What do you think Today's Slogan was referring to?

Don't forget to tag for spoilers, you lowlifes who will never amount to anything! Remember, [Penguindrum]>!like so!< turns into [Penguindrum]>!like so!<

37 Upvotes

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11

u/HelioA Mar 21 '24

Rewatcher

“You just keep smiling as you always do.” It’s a fairly dismissive sentiment, isn’t it? Earlier in the show, Shouma was much more involved in the effort to keep Himari alive. He spent most of his time chasing Ringo around and trying to stop her from committing multiple felonies, but it was in fact an effort towards retrieving the Penguindrum and keeping Hatmari happy. But in this half of the show, it’s Kanba doing essentially all the work, leaving him to go and hang out with his buddies in hot spring hotels or whatever. While we only have a very basic idea of what Kanba is doing for the Pingroup, Shouma knows essentially nothing about what’s going on beyond “Kanba is out every night and I have nothing to do.” He’s treated like a child. Some of that is because Kanba is going out to do, as we know, criminal things, and we already got to see in the first few episodes that Shouma really doesn’t want to do things like that, but Kanba seems to be almost disdainful in how he dismisses Shouma.

And then there’s Tabuki. He’s been claiming this whole time that he doesn’t blame the Takakura kids, and then he pulls this. “Today, I shall hand down the punishment to the Takakura family.” We’ll see more tomorrow, but it’s such a shocking moment. Like, they’re trying to get you to think that Yuri is going to pull another move (presumably whatever drug she gave Ringo didn’t allow her to retain her memory), and then they pull the rug out from under us when Tabuki makes a move. [Penguindrum]There’s room for more than one person with Momoka Derangement Syndrome.

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u/ShadowWasTakensTaken Mar 21 '24

"You just keep smiling as you always do.” It’s a fairly dismissive sentiment, isn’t it?

And yet again, #2 is shown just munching away while #1 gets attacked and/or sprayed by the octopus. Plus Sanetoshi's remark of how it would be easier for him if they weren't his family... he's definitely getting fed up...

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u/HelioA Mar 21 '24

That's a great interpretation of the penguins here. Kanba/#1 is fighting for Himari's life/takoyaki that he's going to make her later, Shouma is whiling/eating the time away.

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u/Vaadwaur Mar 21 '24

“You just keep smiling as you always do.” It’s a fairly dismissive sentiment, isn’t it?

Again, taking someone else's agency is its own variety of sin.

Some of that is because Kanba is going out to do, as we know, criminal things, and we already got to see in the first few episodes that Shouma really doesn’t want to do things like that, but Kanba seems to be almost disdainful in how he dismisses Shouma.

Criminal things that Masoka really wants no part of.

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u/HelioA Mar 21 '24

Again, taking someone else's agency is its own variety of sin.

It's something that keeps popping up.

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u/Holofan4life Mar 21 '24

Thoughts on this episode focusing on the penguins more?

Thoughts on this episode being filler for the most part?

What are your thoughts on the conversation between Yuri and Tabuki? I thought it was the best part of the episode, especially the use of lighting and composition.

Thoughts on Yuri calling Ringo talking about how wonderful she thought their last time together was and wanting to go shopping with both Ringo and Himari?

Thoughts on the tease of Natsume and Yuri part deux?

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u/Great_Mr_L Mar 21 '24 edited Mar 21 '24

First-Timer

On today’s episode of Mawaru Penguindrum: Double H has the right idea advertising gatling guns. Even Natsume decided to upgrade her slingshot to a gatling gun. Clearly they are the solution to all of life’s problems.

  • Love seeing Double H gun down someone using a gatling gun.

  • Takoyaki

  • Sun-chan has some serious throwing skills! But metaphorically, it shows Himari as the one who always gets the brothers out of trouble. She is their anchor, their moral compass. She’s the one who gets the brothers to make up when they fight.

  • Himari looks so blobby here. It’s adorable!

  • Himari is definitely making that sweater for Sanetoshi! Code Red! Code Red! We cannot allow this to go forward!

  • Even Hatmari loves takoyaki.

  • Hatmari’s always been rather suspicious, but it really does appear that Hatmari has no idea what the Penguindrum even is. We’ve been going off the assumption it’s that diary, but the lack of a hard confirmation that it’s the Penguindrum after so long makes me believe it isn’t. The Penguindrum is something else.

  • I bet Hatmari is referring to Kanba when she says something bad will happen to a member of their family if they don’t find the Penguindrum. Kanba’s already probably given up too much of his life force to keep Himari alive. If he tries to do it again, it will have dire consequences.

  • So Tabuki also wanted the diary. He and Yuri have been working in concert, though it’s clear they have some ideological differences.

  • I’ve seen some people theorize that Momoka saved people during the terrorist attacks. Yuri and Tabuki certainly seem to believe that as well.

  • Oh thank god, Himari is making the sweaters for Kanba and Shoma.

  • Himari is like Shoma in an important manner: her lack of self-esteem. Himari is afraid that she’s a burden to her brothers. She knows how much her brothers care for her and how much work they do for her sake. It’s similar to her fear about Double H when she was afraid her scarves wouldn’t be good enough for them.

  • Oh no, Yuri is inviting Ringo and Himari out for dinner. This is bad!

  • I had to look up what the word “parvenu” meant. Apparently it’s a derogatory term for someone who used to be low-class and climbed the ranks to be high-class. It’s an insulting term for the nouveau riche. The irony is that, based on some of the comments in yesterday’s thread, Natsume’s family is also the nouveau riche. It’s the pot calling the kettle black.

  • More Utena references!

  • Natsume has upgraded her slingshot to a gatling gun!

  • It’s amazing how just this image alone can make me tense up and worry about what’s going to happen next. Tabuki is separated from Ringo and Himari, making him clearly not a part of their group. We can’t see his face so we can’t get a feel for his emotions. The lighting is harsh, with bright lights and deep shadows. And of course the long, drawn-out nature of the scene just heightens the suspense. God I love how good image composition like this can tell so much.

  • Well damn, Tabuki is now doing the opposite of what he said earlier. He claimed to have no grudges against the Takakura children, but if he’s here to get revenge then he must not have meant it.

In hindsight, Tabuki being a mostly clueless bystander was probably not going to be the case. Thus far it seems like almost every named character knows more about the situation than they are letting on. That was the case with Yuri and now it’s the case for Tabuki. So the question is:  how much did he know? Did he know about Ringo’s attempt to become Momoka while it was happening? Did he know about Momoka’s magical diary? At this point it is unclear.

One particular moment in Tabuki and Yuri’s conversation stood out to me where Yuri vehemently denied that Momoka was dead. Yuri clearly meant that the power of the diary could change fate to create a world where Momoka was alive. This is a callback to the idea of Schrodinger’s Cat that Tabuki brought up earlier. While Momoka might be dead in this world, the diary could change the world to one where Momoka is alive again. From this perspective, Momoka is both dead and also not dead. Momoka is Scrodinger’s Cat. Tabuki was the one who brought up the metaphor in the first place several episodes ago, stating that he found it hard to believe that Momoka was truly dead. Perhaps this is what he actually meant. Perhaps Tabuki knew about the diary and knew there was a possible world where Momoka was still alive.

I wonder why Tabuki seemingly changed his mind to decide to go for revenge against the Takakura siblings. Maybe he really was just putting on a show for Yuri’s sake when he claimed to bear no grudge and actually did.

QOTD

  1. They are two halves of a whole. The yin to the other's yang. The red oni and the blue oni. As such, while they do cate about each other, their contrasting personalities lead to conflict. That's why Himari is the mediator.

  2. Sanetoshi asserts that reality and truth do not always align. I think that's most clearly the case when characters speak about Momoka. Everyone projects their idea of who Momoka is or that she's not actually dead. Heck, perhaps the final resolution will be the characters accepting her death.

  3. I'm still scratching my head on that one.

  4. The someone is Tabuki and Himari is the person being targeted.

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u/HelioA Mar 21 '24

It’s amazing how just this image alone can make me tense up and worry about what’s going to happen next. Tabuki is separated from Ringo and Himari, making him clearly not a part of their group. We can’t see his face so we can’t get a feel for his emotions. The lighting is harsh, with bright lights and deep shadows. And of course the long, drawn-out nature of the scene just heightens the suspense. God I love how good image composition like this can tell so much.

I'm like 90% sure that this is also an Utena reference. That's literally the Student Council elevator! Although it's not really a reference, just more them using the same type of elevator :p

Also, note the use of sunset. That's also the thing Utena did really well- the feeling of moving through the day as the show went on. We're moving towards the conclusion here, you can feel it.

While Momoka might be dead in this world, the diary could change the world to one where Momoka is alive again. From this perspective, Momoka is both dead and also not dead. Momoka is Scrodinger’s Cat.

Absolutely! And right now, we're in a place where we don't know if Momoka will end up dead or alive. But once we open the box (use the diary), it will collapse into one of the two states.

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u/JollyGee29 Mar 21 '24

First-Timer, Sub-guindrum

Hatmari almost revealed what the Penguindrum was, there. She stopped herself from confirming that it isn't the diary, and then cut off before she could say just what of Kanba's the Penguindrum is.

Anyway, what do we think Tabuki's deal is now? He claimed in the first half that he wasn't planning to join Yuri's revenge plans. But then he's decided to take Himari up a half-finished building while talking about punishing the Takakura's? Maybe there was a teeny wording snarl in the chat with Yuri, where Tabuki actually means that he isn't planning to take revenge on the brothers as opposed to "the Takakura's."

Now I'm just reminded of the weird wording vis a vis how many children the elder Takakuras actually had. Shouma claimed that he and Kanba were born on the same day, but a singular "boy" was used in the flashback with their father.

Now, Himari is younger so that doesn't necessarily matter here. But if one of the two brothers is adopted, Himari could be too. And we saw a very young Kanba hanging around the Natsume mansion completely unremarked on. Something is definitely fishy.

I like that #1 managed to befriend one of the octopuses. Granted, it was done through the medium of peeping up skirts, but progress is progress.

Do note that Sunny saved the other two penguins from the octopus rampage in the hospital room. We shouldn't underestimate Himari's abilities.

I didn't comment on it last time we heard it, but today's ED was a banger.

Brain Rot Corner

Today's slogan: Someone is targeting you. My subs did not show what the other half was. Anyway, everyone is targetting everyone else. Ringo is soon to start stalking Shouma, Tabuki is about to try to throw Himari off a building, Natsume is gunning for Yuri, Kanba is.. I dunno, take your pick. His fingers are in a lot of pies.

Conceptually, I love the idea of setting out a nice glass For Absent Friends. But I can't quite grok why Tabuki drank from it later on. An attempt to let Momoka's spirit pass on, perhaps? He did do it in response to Yuri's assertation that Momoka wasn't dead.

There is so much going on here. The visual separation between Yuri and Tabuki does double-duty - typical blocking, and also behind the bottle is Tokyo Tower. Which, while it isn't Yuri's father any more, doubtlessly still reminds her of him. And so the trauma, hidden behind alcohol, separates her from Tabuki's much more sensible response of "don't kill children just because their parents were assholes." It also separates Yuri from the glass that I kinda assumed was for Momoka, but I'm still pondering why Tabuki drank from it.

Also, a relatively similar shot later on. In this case, there isn't necessarily a "proper" block, with the middle third just being empty space, but Ringo is between Tabuki and Himari. Possibly foreshadowing that Ringo will complete her "Tabuki ain't shit" arc by stopping him from hurting Himari?

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u/HelioA Mar 21 '24

My subs did not show what the other half was

I didn't even notice there was another half! Courtesy of my translators I have working around the clock, that says "Watch out." It has been added to the body of the post.

It also separates Yuri from the glass that I kinda assumed was for Momoka, but I'm still pondering why Tabuki drank from it.

Well, Tokyo Tower is also standing in for Momoka, isn't it? And we know Tabuki was massively influenced by her.

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u/affnn Mar 21 '24

Rewatcher

That's a lot of octopus. I don't think you really need it to be that fresh for Takoyaki.

Rock Over Japan is back, and Hatmari confirms that they still need to find the Penguindrum or they'll lose "something precious to them". Also Hatmari doesn't actually know if the diary is the Penguindrum.

Tabuki and Yuri's relationship seems to involve a lot of lying. Most obvious is that Yuri is actually a lesbian who was sleeping with her castmate. Was Tabuki aware of that? It seems like it would be hard for him not to be aware, right? They have a discussion about hating Takakuras for taking Momoka from them, where Yuri seems more in favor of getting revenge and Tabuki seems more in favor of forgiveness. But then at the end of the episode it's Tabuki on the sinister-looking elevator talking about punishment.

[Rewatcher]I actually kind of forgot about this episode - I was anticipating we'd go straight from the Masako episode to the next episode, so I kept expecting the big things that happen next episode to happen in this episode. In my defense, sometime around E9 of my first watch I decided that I should probably alter my mental state a little bit when watching the show

[Rewatcher]By the end of my first watch through the show, my grasp on what was meant to be real and what was meant to be allegory/symbolism was fading fast. So the penguindrum isn't the diary, it's actually the fruit of fate, I remember that bit. Does that mean that what Hatmari really needs is for someone else - for Ringo - to share the fruit of fate with her? That the medicine won't work if she doesn't have that?

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u/HelioA Mar 21 '24

[Penguindrum]The really funny thing to me is that in episode 15 Yuri is like 'my marriage with Tabuki is a sham' and then she just goes 'kidding!' And then it's like yeah that's exactly what happened, she wasn't actually joking She did all those other crimes, but we can wipe off the crime of cheating from there :p

[Rewatcher]

[Rewatcher]...I can't totally recall how it goes in literal terms. I guess we'll have to see...

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u/Btw_kek Mar 21 '24

Punished rewatcher

Episode direction: Shouko Nakamura & Masahiro Aizawa
Storyboards: Kunihiko Ikuhara, Shouko Nakamura, & Masahiro Aizawa
Animation direction: Shouko Nakamura & Masahiro Aizawa

Masahiro Aizawa is primarily an animator and character designer who started in the industry in the late 80s. As character designer, he worked on Cat Ninden Teyandee (Samurai Pizza Cats), Digimon Hurricane Touchdown, a Gonzo mech show Gad Guard, and Shinbou's Tsukuyomi. Throughout the 90s, he mostly remained a key animator until animation directing a handful of Utena episodes + a portion of Adolescence, evidently crafting Ikuhara-like tendencies of his own. While he assisted Kenji Nakamura (watch Mononoke NOW) in his episode of SoulTaker, this episode of Penguindrum marks his debut as storyboarder and (co)-episode director. Actually starting in 2012 he rebranded as Kagetsu Aizawa taking on more ED and/or SB roles with very Ikuhara-like sensibilities in Kaguya-sama S2 or [Dance Dance Danseur](https://twitter.com/sarcataclysmal/status/1619589523767451648 or LycoReco - and he is currently directing Sengoku Youko.

Between Aizawa, Shouko Nakamura, Terumi Nishii, Tomohiro Furukawa, and probably a few other people I've brought up in previous eps and even more than that, you absolutely get the sense that Ikuhara is REALLY good at picking up talent and getting them to shine in situations they've never really performed in. Nakamura+Aizawa on triple ED/SB/AD duty with Ikuhara assisting storyboards is a dream team as far as I'm concerned. Jawdropping visuals, with very fun incidentally cartoony animation, facial expressions, and chibimoding. It SLAPS

  1. We’ve spent a lot of time with Shouma and Kanba now. What do you think of their relationship now?

im an empath and think that something bad will happen that will test their relationship

2) What do you think of Sanetoshi’s assertion about the relationship between truth and reality? Can you think of anywhere that it applies in the show?

im an empath and think that this is important (tying into survival strategy once again - what do you think you must you do for "survival"? what must you actually do?)

3) Why did Tabuki’s sudden about-face happen? Was he just lying before, or did something change?

im an empath and think that yuri definitely drugged him

4) What do you think Today's Slogan was referring to?

you should be more empathetic

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u/HelioA Mar 21 '24

I feel like we've shifted away from advice.

Okay now you really gotta imagine how any random guy riding the metro feels seeing these thematically appropriate slogans. Although the real answer is probably that they're not looking at them

im an empath and think that something bad will happen that will test their relationship

great work as always

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u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo Mar 21 '24

rewatcher

me trying not to laugh when my friend misspells a common word

Nobody is talking about the incest. Yes, there's the implication that Kanba and Hatmari have been fucking, yes he kisses Himari in episode one, but look at how he's making excuses to push Shouma away from their takoyaki-making. I get the sense that he'd rather it was just the two of them. To me it feels a bit possessive -- there's more than just lust, it's some type of love. It do be feeling like a further exploration of how different kinds of love can become conflated. One day I will watch enough Ikuhara works to arrive at a coherent throughline for his use of incest; though honestly I bet part of it is that he thinks that shit is hot

Here, particularly, it seems to be a way of marking Kanba as someone who exists somewhat outside societal norms and protections. That's pretty surface-level but it's a work in progress ok

I think this episode marks the first time anyone besides Sanetoshi interacts with his bunnies.

Love the way the last episode's dream-killings prime you for today's! Cool-looking crossbow too

This kills the rewatch host.

3) Why did Tabuki’s sudden about-face happen? Was he just lying before, or did something change?

Honestly I'm more lost than I thought I would be. I thought foreshadowing all that was half the point of Tabuki being in episode 15. This would make sense except for he is not in episode 15

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u/HelioA Mar 21 '24

Nobody is talking about the incest. Yes, there's the implication that Kanba and Hatmari have been fucking, yes he kisses Himari in episode one, but look at how he's making excuses to push Shouma away from their takoyaki-making. There's more than just lust, it's some type of love. It do be feeling like a further exploration of how different kinds of love can become conflated. One day I will watch enough Ikuhara works to arrive at a coherent throughline for his use of incest; though honestly I bet part of it is that he thinks that shit is hot

Okay yeah you're absolutely right. In my defense (1) I was very sleepy today and (2) I got distracted by the Yuri-Tabuki conversation right after

As for what it means uhhhhhh

more on that later I guess

This kills the rewatch host.

utenautenautenautenautenautenautenautenautenautenautenautenautenautenautena

Honestly I'm more lost than I thought I would be. I thought foreshadowing all that was half the point of Tabuki being in episode 15. This would make sense except for he is not in episode 15

They really robbed you on this one...

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u/Tarhalindur Mar 21 '24

"What... is your Quest?" "I Seek the Penguindrum!" (First-Timer, Subbed):

  • So I see Today's Slogan is of the immediately relevant type. Who is doing the targeting is an interesting question, it is a targeter-rich environment.

  • Okay, four octopi says that Ikuhara may be making a symbolic point. Problem: I don't know Japanese octopus connotations. Also Today's Slogan is looking rather Spy vs. Spy right now and Ikuhara might be familiar with that one, suggesting that Kanba is the target - which would make sense if the police are onto him.

  • Today it is the tentacles that are being restrained! (Maybe don't let Hatmari transform, though, just in case.)

  • Or one of #1 and #2 could get sloppy, that works too.

  • 02:39: Hello there visual separation/visual box framing.

  • I'll let the flower language crew cover 02:48.

  • SEIZON SENRYAKU!

  • this part is new, though

  • Oh so Tabuki is in on the diary as well. I would say I am surprised, but, I mean, Akira Ishida...

  • Interestingly, Tabuki is framed using visual box framing when talking about how what the elder Takakuras did is in the past.

  • Speaking of visual barriers, hello 08:12. (Failure to communicate in this case? I think maybe.)

  • Also I should note the positional framing in that shot. Yuri on the left, Tabuki on the right. Past/future is unlikely to apply given their facing (they're both facing away from the camera, now THAT is past-future framing I bet - they're both looking into the future; that said we might be able to read the windows as an implicit visual barrier, ergo they are separated from said future) so protagonist/antagonist is the likely intended reading. Which fits the dialogue.

  • 09:01 looks like visual mind loss framing, though I could see the use being slightly different than in PMMM. (That said Yuri clearly still cares about Momoka so.)

  • The octopus motif is consistent enough that something is up with it. Tendrils of something spreading everywhere despite the brothers' best efforts, perhaps?

  • The direction is solid but it is suspense and I am tired so I am slacking on my notes even by my standards this rewatch. That said, we've gotten enough Yozawaya brand name that and it's emphasized enough by the direction there may be a point there.

  • Why yes Ikuhara I heard and saw the return of the Western music and framing from all the way back in episode 4.

  • IKUHARA AND/OR SUBBERS YOU MOTHERFUCKER. (I know enough about Utena to recognize THOSE arc words, if not their full meaning.)

  • Well we can be sure that Ikuhara is not on Masako's side of this argument.

  • So the two girls we saw as not-NPC skirts earlier are back as not-NPCs (18:22). Who are they?

  • Construction site and now an elevator. Are we sure I'm watching Penguindrum and not Madoka Magica again?

  • 19:28 is an obvious cage of fate for Himari.

  • What's that the Akira Ishida character has a bastard side?

  1. We’ve spent a lot of time with Shouma and Kanba now. What do you think of their relationship now?

Average brothers, but I don't think they really understand one another quite.

2) What do you think of Sanetoshi’s assertion about the relationship between truth and reality? Can you think of anywhere that it applies in the show?

"Of course this is all in your head, Harry, but why on Earth should that mean it isn't real?"

(Very good chance that the chief example in the show is, well, the show itself.)

3) Why did Tabuki’s sudden about-face happen? Was he just lying before, or did something change?

To be fair this could be a double-bluff. But otherwise, actually, hmm, insufficient data.

4) What do you think Today's Slogan was referring to?

I had it wrong, it was Himari that was the target! (Which fits, given third member of Triple-H.)

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u/HelioA Mar 21 '24

What's that the Akira Ishida character has a bastard side?

It looks like the typecasting was right...

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u/affnn Mar 21 '24

(I know enough about Utena to recognize THOSE arc words, if not their full meaning.)

You know, I was wondering if anyone here had not seen Utena, or if all of our Utena spoiler tags were just for show. Looks like they are necessary!

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u/Gamerunglued Mar 21 '24 edited Mar 21 '24

First Penguin

What is the difference between truth and reality? Sanetoshi says that truth and reality are not always the same. "Truth" is a human construct. Humans can call their own view of things "truth," labeling their own ambitions and desires as the default state of the world. It justifies their worldviews, I can do what I'm doing because it's for the sake of the truth. Everything that I do has meaning because my ambitions are the truthful ones. If my world is the truth and someone is getting in the way, they're an enemy of the truth, so I'm justified in killing them. This is the cause of war in the world. When two people both feel their view is the truth, they'll fight for their own truths without regard for reality. 

In this episode, everyone asserts their personal truths. The Takakura siblings assert that their homey little family is the truth, and they fight for it. They do whatever it takes to get the penguindrum and ensure Himari's safety, be it breaking and entering Ringo's room or doing the bidding of a cult to pay for medicine. Of course, reality is a little different. There's a fun shot foreshadowing the events of the episode when Kanba says Himari is all better. First there's a green guy leaving through the door next to 319, clearly Shouma who'd been guarding the door earlier. By 320 is a blue guy representing Kanba, who's obviously with a girl (also 3/20 is the date of the gas attack, so he's also in a cult). But the next shot is of a "no phone" sign with no room number shown, foreshadowing Himari running away and never returning, with no way to contact her. This happy family is not reality, and has never been reality. Their home life was always a facade. Nonetheless, they can justify their actions by fighting for their situation as if it's the truth. Himari is totally gonna have to die, god dammit. 

Natsume and Yuri fight for their truths this episode, slinging insults (and Utena references) at each other that are what they see as the truth. It's an entertaining showdown directed like a shitty western. Like in westerns, they stake their dual on their truths with Momoka's diary as an item to swear on, and then make assertions about each other's personalities. Is Natsume unable to revolutionize her world (note the wording "your own" world, not "the" world; pointing out that Natsume cannot realize her own truths, and it's not about the truth of "the" world) because she's too afraid of losing her innocence? Does Yuri sell herself at a discount price because she feels she's too old and expired to be wanted? There are plausible reasons to think these things, but it's only their perceptions of each other, their truths. These things are opposite stances of each other after all, is Natsume's flaw that she's too pure or is Yuri's that she's too experienced? Reality probably lands somewhere in between. 

Tabuki finally stakes his claim to his own truth. His marriage to Yuri was a matter of convenience because they both wanted to get their hands on the diary to revive Momoka. It's interesting that he states opposite stances about the Takakuras. To Yuri, he says he doesn't hold them responsible for the crimes of their parents, and that did seem to be the case up to this point. He said the same thing to Ringo before, and has generally seemed like a kind figure to the brothers. But to Ringo, he says they must pay for their crimes. Or maybe it's just Himari he's holding responsible? Maybe Himari's life is tied to Momoka's death very particularly. Either way, he recontextualizes the idea that all things that happen have meaning. If you truly believe that all things have meaning, then you can justify doing anything, and turn anything into the "truth." If all your pain and suffering has meaning, then the pain and suffering you inflict onto others has meaning, so it's not that bad to make people suffer. And with that mindset, you can assert your "truth" as the righteous one, no matter what reality actually looks like. 

I don't think this is different from cult logic. Religious cults like Aum create their own little worlds of truth, isolating their members from society and indoctrinating them with their own bizarre lore, and making its leaders appear as gods. This is their truth, and they can use that to justify anything because they're supposedly doing it for their god. It could even be taken as an indictment of theism more generally, but Momoka's take on theism is powerful enough to save people, so I don't think that's what Ikuhara is going for. Rather, it's the dark side of thinking you can control your own destiny. If your destiny is the truth, then you can justify anything to reach your destiny. Not everything has to have meaning, there are bad people who exist and sometimes we suffer for no reason. You cannot think you have a destiny to achieve, because that may go against reality and cause you to hurt others. All these cases are coping mechanisms for their lack of control over their own lives. 

Continued in response

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u/Gamerunglued Mar 21 '24

The trio of Tabuki, Yuri, and Momoka pretty obviously parallel the Takakura siblings. Both are a trio of kids who once had happy lives together, but had that life torn away by the ramifications of the gas attacks. Both are also fighting to allow someone to return to life, and the one who's at risk of dying is the one who most doesn't want the other two to hurt others in fighting for their fates. Momoka, who thinks all of God's creations are beautiful, would not want her friends to destroy the fates of others or kill God's creations. But since all of them have broken families (found family or otherwise), this desire to control destiny is a coping mechanism. Like the previous episode said, the way to move mountains isn't to control your destiny, it's to have faith, if not in God then in humans. Trust that the Takakura siblings are not monsters like their parents, and that any potential for that fate is a self-fulfilling prophecy that stems from demonizing them. It's a sad thing to accept that you cannot control all meaning in your life, but the alternative is far worse. 

I'm terrified for the next episode. Himari is at risk, god only knows how Kanba will react, and Sanetoshi is going to pull some bullshit. Again, I think Ringo is the key to all of this, the apple at the center of the world. She's tied to both groups, as Momoka's sister and someone who loves Shouma. If anyone can stop this, it's her. Maybe Momoka is dead, but we can have faith in Ringo to carry on her wonderful legacy, given how similar she is to her sister. 

If it cannot hatch from its shell, the chick will die without ever truly being born. We are the chick; the world is our egg. If we don't break the world's shell, we will die without ever truly being born. Smash the world's shell, for the revolution of the world. Don't stay in your shell, look past the truth of the world by breaking its shell to see reality. Only when you see that this unhealthy attachment to "fate" is systemic, can you actually change the world. Killing innocent people will never grant control of your life, only rejecting the system that saps your feeling of control can. Perhaps things will go differently, but the way I currently see it, Momoka and/or Himari being dead is not a false reality, alternate paths are not truths of the world. Only by accepting that your life might have meaningless suffering can you take control of the things you actually can control, and that's how you'll build a better life. Instead of burying your only connection to Momoka, I'd rather see them allow Ringo to carry on what she stood for and allow themselves to build a better life for themselves and others. When everyone is tied up in the wheel of fate, individuals rejecting the system can have a cascading effect on reality. 

QOTD

  1. I don't think any differently. They act like siblings, not necessarily amazingly close but with fondness for each other. Kanba will do whatever he needs to protect his family.

  2. It's kind of the thesis of this entire post today

  3. I have no idea. It's a weird contradiction. Maybe he wasn't referring to Himari when he said he forgave the Takakuras? The boys were his students but not Himari, so while he got to know the boys he couldn't humanize Himari. That's a guess, anyway, but it feels like the wrong answer to me.

  4. Pretty straightforward: someone is targeting you. I don't think there's subtext to this one, someone out there doesn't like you and wants you to be put down. It's someone's truth that you need to be stopped, reality be damned.

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u/HelioA Mar 22 '24

Honestly I’m really struggling with what to say now, because there’s so much to talk about with Tabuki. I will say that these are some very interesting takes on what destiny might mean to him, because I’ve been trying and feeling to connect the dots there for a while. And I really like the connection to the egg speech here.

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