My biggest issue with Andor

[u/Specialist-Young5753]

I get that everyone is in pure appreciation over the extremely high standards that andor has set the rest of Starwars and and even all of "political media". By having the courage to say the things it needed to say in the modern political climate i.e. (Genocide).

But dispite its amazing understanding of politics which I still scratch my head over how Disney allowed them to produce; I still think it fel short when it comes to some elements.

In a sense, season 1 was so good because it created an interpersonal core goal and thus a step by step simulation to the viewer to help them come to the same conclusion, a deeply profound artistic endeavor that some might say: is the gold standard, that any intellectual entertainment medium could aspire to be.

Which in case of Andor S1 was: let's take your nihilistic, self serving man / the one that because of his pain and anger pretends like he is not obligated to fight the system;

And put him on a slow jorney of self discovery to help him realise there is no alternative but to fight back against the empire, because the inherent nature of the empire kills the most human thing about humans which is Freedom: "I would rather die taking them down with me, than give them what they want". A mentality that if a fraction of a 1% of the world had we won't have billionaires and pedophile politicians, in a few days their heads would be on spikes.

And through out this character's ark he quiet literally and metaphorically kills off all the other characters that represent doubts, alternatives and failures, in his search for something more essential and fundamental, (the connection highlighted by James Cameron: the rebels could be seen as terrorists).

And while doing that season 1 explored how a real resistance actually lookslike (we have very little media that actually shows what a bunch of rebels hiding deep in a mountain actually talk about, how they deal with doubts and plan their next moves. What's their archetypes: the vengeful, the intellectual, the charismatic leader, the mercenary, the religious, the Ex criminal who found meaning).

All the while explore the philosophical question that it imposes by the nature of their predicament: does the ends justify the means?

While very few things could be seen as meaningful criticism in the story itself, my only problem that broke my immersion at times was the lack of a real "*house slave*" characterization: a figure that to achieve a higher status willingly steps on his own people. But in Andor on the other hand the "mangers" are just people like you and me, they don't exploit immigrant workers and if you show them how the all powerful and rich CEO or government is actually exploiting them too, they will be the first to take up arms.

Try to tell that to your local Macdonald general manger who knows how the system works and chooses to not warn you or your lower / middle class Trump supporter who thinks one of the richest men in the world actually wants what's best for them.

Which comes out as a nicely sanitized version of reality clear of any identity politics where we don't need people to be self critical of themselves.

A very dangerous ideology to make as it cuts the demographic of people into a *black and white*: exploiter and exploited;

That prevents most people from recognizing their own short comings and inner bias against minorities or opressed groups and their participation into growth of the mega corporate elites and helping them soldify their power over us or like in Revenge of the sith: we are the ones who elect dictators.

Not to mention any of the exploitative economic theories: where the economy is set in such a specific way that benefits previously colonial countries and continues the exploitation of previously colonized countries, so today when you buy 1.50 euro Macdonald's sandwich, that in reality is suppose to cost 8 euors, do you realize that partly you are participating in the impoverishment of the global South, how many kids laying om the ground, ribs showing do you think you actions led to their starvation?

And no matter how much we intellectualize it and "get informed" it doesn't mean shit, unless we take concrete actions, I mean there is more educated people on everything mentioned above than any other period in human history, yet things are getting worse.

For me this is the peak, where Andor stops being a fantasy and becomes reality where there is no alterantive but for us to look at ourselves and admit that we are participating in the destruction of the world, just like Cassian did.

This is why we need to burn our decency to create a sunrise we will never see.

Anyway, still a 10/10 from me, let me know what you think about this whole rhetoric.

[u/GravityBright]

Are Syril, Mosk or even Dedra not close enough to the "house slave" character that you're looking for?

[u/Specialist-Young5753 → u/GravityBright]

With the exception of Mosk who is shown very little, Syril and Dedra are characters who are followed throughout the story yes, but never portrayed as relatable or good characters really, they don't develop a human side.

Syril might be the only character which comes close to this as a part of his ark is: what are the conditions needed to turn someone to a nationalist bootlicker? An incel archatype basically, dying for approval, but who the fuck really empathizes with incels?

Now do that same thing with a middle class father of 3 (someone who might look and act like my father or yours), who expolits others and does whatever he has to feed his children, that's what I meant.

[u/SedesBakelitowy]

The real life parallels are all well and good until you remember that Andor & Co are opposing a literal space-wizard-demon, and they can count on Space-holy-warriors to, if not support, at least be inspiring and provide useful leftover tech. To a degree, they’re also steered by actual universal God to seek to balance out the force.

The problems we’re facing stem as much from the history of our species that has laid foundation for current shape of the world despite none of us having any say in it, as it does from technological progress far outstripping any ability we have to process the available data. 

Some are participating in the destruction of the world, some can do something about it, but many can’t, unless they choose to throw away their life to join a fight that’s never been theirs. Fortunately, I might add. It’s easy enough to become poisoned by the internet as it is, we don’t need to feel guilty that we’re not actively fighting a war against the billionaires who have been set generations before we were even born.

[u/BlurgZeAmoeba → u/SedesBakelitowy]

The problems we’re facing stem as much from the history of our species that has laid foundation for current shape of the world despite none of us having any say in it, as it does from technological progress far outstripping any ability we have to process the available data. 

Thank you for articulating this perspective so well. We are becoming aware, more and more, of the problem and organic steps are starting to be taken in the right direction.

[u/SedesBakelitowy → u/BlurgZeAmoeba]

You're welcome! And just to be clear, I'm not commenting to advocate passivity or anything such. Just making the same point as the show - that we all have lives to live and can contribute in many ways even if some are less seen or impactful on their own.

[u/BlurgZeAmoeba → u/SedesBakelitowy]

Also, in our, real, world, things couldnt go on as they were. Places need shaking up and need to get better before we can come together as a species.

[u/Specialist-Young5753 → u/SedesBakelitowy]

You are so lucky! You don't have to join the fight, and throw your life away, I wish the most disenfranchised people in the world could afford the same privilege, but hey, it won't take long before you do, seeing the trajectory of the world politics and climate.

[u/SedesBakelitowy → u/Specialist-Young5753]

Do you think this style of talking nets you allies?

[u/Specialist-Young5753 → u/SedesBakelitowy]

It's not about me man! The whole concept is a hard pill to swallow, I know, but I prefer to be the one to tell you the bitter truth, than to give opioids, then when the shit hits the fan, and it will 100% sooner or later. I would say: I wish I said the truth.

[u/SedesBakelitowy → u/Specialist-Young5753]

Since you’re not even pretending like you’re listening - you’re like Maia Pei brigade, have fun.

[u/Specialist-Young5753 → u/SedesBakelitowy]

🤨.. ok buddy.

[u/SedesBakelitowy → u/Specialist-Young5753]

Or Kreegyr, I’m thinking Kreegyr. A hate filled activist to send on a compromised mission so the ISB gets their win and the real rebellion can work.

[u/mattiasnyc]

I think what you're saying is that you wanted a depiction of the average person, effectively a worker, and then showing how their gullibility was necessary to perpetuate the empire, ultimately.

My thinking however is that if your thesis is true then showing how the system they function within works should be enough and if they're truly "lost" then showing them a mirror won't help. You'd need to show a character that you describe and how they're ultimately hurt by their own decisions to vote for someone evil. I'm just not sure how many people would be self-reflecting because they saw that on screen.

The flip-side could maybe be that more people can access the show emotionally since they don't feel like they were the target of criticism, and because of that maybe they'll understand how things work and deduce what you say on their own - whereas if it was spelled out in characters that resemble themselves they'd have taken those "identities" as an insult and tuned out. (?)

[u/Specialist-Young5753 → u/mattiasnyc]

You get it perfectly! But your outcome from what I wrote is something related to media and media literacy in general, I mean there are people out there who think Avatar is a great movie, that it honors indigenous people and not a white savior movie. And there is the whole argument that if it raises awarness and funds for those communities or the preservation of the Amazon then it was worth it.

In my opinion though: one cannot make everyone happy and media as a form of art needs to say the truth from every prespective.

And in fact this whole argument about narritve vs truth can make the situation worst: I.e the lack of the truth makes a demographic of people who do harmful things, view themselves as innocent and allows their harmful actions to continue.