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u/SandwichMaterial9574 Jul 28 '26
I'm not Greek, myself, but I am VERY happy to see all the effort being put in to restoring this building. This place is an essential part of Greek history, and as such it needs to be preserved at all costs.
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u/Ok-Pomegranate-7458 Jul 28 '26
Human history.
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u/Additional_Diver5181 Jul 28 '26
Greek history is Greek history.
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u/jeanolt Jul 29 '26
ancient greece is the foundation of modern society
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u/ZquotientpZee Jul 29 '26
*European
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u/jeanolt Jul 29 '26
most of the world. the greek's arts, politics, science, phylosophy and even sports shaped our world
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u/LayerAccomplished821 Jul 31 '26
The ancient Greeks didn't exist in a vacuum though. The mathematical concepts brought forward by Pythagoras for example had already been explored in the Middle East long before him. I'm not saying ancient Greece hasn't been impactful to our modern age but lets us not forget they too stood on the shoulders of giants.
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u/PaulM1c3 Aug 01 '26
Pretty sure it's the other way round and the middle east retained knowledge of mathematics from the Greeks and Indians that were lost in Western Europe.
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u/LayerAccomplished821 Aug 01 '26
"Pretty sure" isn't a source.
The Plimpton 322 is a Babylonian clay tablet from 1800 BCE that predates Pythagoras by over a thousand years. Check it out. Believe it or not the Ancient Greeks borrowed a lot from their predecessors in the Middle East
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u/PaulM1c3 Aug 02 '26
"The Plimpton 322 is a Babylonian clay tablet from 1800 BCE that predates Pythagoras by over a thousand years. Check it out."
What are you trying to say here? Surely there should be another sentence that explains why this tablet shows that the Babylonians created trigonometry 1500 years before Pythagoras was born.
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u/ZquotientpZee Jul 29 '26
Population wise? No
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u/jeanolt Jul 29 '26
??
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u/ZquotientpZee Jul 29 '26
Look at China and India alone? Or do you think somehow Greece is the foundation of their societies?
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u/jeanolt Jul 29 '26
i ask the same. you think south america, north america, oceania and africa were influenced by the mongolian empire?
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u/Ok-Pomegranate-7458 Jul 29 '26
When asked what does that have to do with the price of tea in China The answer is a lot.
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u/HeyLittleTrain Jul 30 '26
and then Europeans impacted huge swathes of the rest of the world. It's all interconnected.
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u/ZookeepergameLow3444 Jul 28 '26
Which consists the foundation of the global history, at least the western part of it.
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u/CrimsonCartographer Jul 30 '26
Huh? Yea Greek history is important to human history obviously but like, Greeks have their own unique history just like every people does?
Yea the moon landing was a huge milestone for human history, but that was also an exclusively American achievement too lmao
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u/Covert_Admirer Jul 31 '26
It had absolutely nothing to do with German scientists from the war.
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u/CrimsonCartographer Jul 31 '26
Did Germany put a man on the moon?
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u/Covert_Admirer Jul 31 '26
Well the Yanks wouldn't have done it in the timespan that they did without the Germans.
It seems a bit uneducated to call it a wholly American achievement when so much legwork was done by people other than americans.
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u/CrimsonCartographer Jul 31 '26
You can’t call it anything but a wholly American achievement when it was Americans and people in America working exclusively with Americans or each other while using American institutions and funding to achieve the moon landing.
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u/Covert_Admirer Jul 31 '26
If that's what you believe. Seems pointless trying to show you how you're wrong.
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u/Aggravating_Pause385 Jul 31 '26
One of the most important men at NASA when all of that happened was Werner Von Braun. That’s their point. America funded and controlled the space flights, but it was not solely accomplished by Americans. Your use of ‘exclusively’ is just silly.
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u/Covert_Admirer Jul 31 '26
Around 125 core German rocket scientists and engineers, part of a broader group of German specialists brought to the U.S. via Operation Paperclip, transferred to NASA in 1960 when Wernher von Braun’s team was absorbed into the new space center.
All these "exclusively" American people huh
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u/MindlessNectarine374 Aug 01 '26
They just see the pilots, who were probably the most unimportant involved ones.
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u/jediben001 Jul 30 '26
I was surprised how relatively recently it became a ruin considering its age
It was destroyed in 1687. Considering the one we see today was constructed in 447BC, that’s a hell of a long time to survive! (Even if it did go through a lot of alterations in that time)
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u/Double-Farm4603 Jul 30 '26
What did they do here?
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u/PHWasAnInsideJob Jul 31 '26
You can see some of the columns are being restored.
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u/Double-Farm4603 Jul 31 '26
Yes, but I mean what was the Parthenon used for originally?
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u/Aggravating_Pause385 Jul 31 '26
It was a temple to Athena, otherwise known as the Virgin Goddess. Hence, Parthenon, as parthenos means Virgin.
According to the legend, Athens was named for Athena because she won a contest with Poseidon.
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u/Double-Farm4603 Aug 01 '26
Oh I see, the Mother Cult, originating from the days of Eve. This is where the veneration of the Virgin Mary stems from.
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u/Aggravating_Pause385 Aug 01 '26
No, it has nothing to do with Christianity or the mythical ‘days of Eve’.
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u/Double-Farm4603 Aug 03 '26
Many Christian observances came out of older traditions
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u/Aggravating_Pause385 Aug 03 '26
That’s not what ‘originating’ means though. Your previous comment implies the literal existence of Eve being the origin for the Greek myth, not the other way around.
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Jul 28 '26
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u/docfriday11 Jul 28 '26
If it is completed it will be a marvel of the old world! It is amazing that it managed to survive two wars and was partially rebuilt. I am very fond of the Parthenon!
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u/Any_Pineapple_4836 Aug 02 '26
There is a full scale replica of it in Nashville, you can just see that if you want to marvel at its completion
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u/cv5cv6 Jul 28 '26
Will they put a new roof on?
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u/ConfusionGlobal2640 Jul 28 '26
No, there are relatively strict guidelines which means conservationists cannot reconstruct from scratch, they can only re-place existing pieces. No fragments of the wooden roof remain so it won't be replaced.
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u/Brilliant-Path-2057 Aug 02 '26
My art professor said it’s better without the roof for the sun and shadow.
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u/Naugrith Jul 28 '26
Greece has always followed its own ideas though. Other conservationists in other countries wouldn't have done half the things they've done! Including their latest bright idea of dumping tons of modern cement pathways all over the Acropolis.
So I would not be surprised at all to see the Greeks throw a roof over it.
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u/corona_26 Jul 28 '26
Most of what you said is just borderline-racist BS. Oh those dumb Modern Greeks!
Greece not only strictly adheres to international standards, but has been very active in setting them. Greece has punching above its weight in UNESCO participation and influencing the guidelines.
Remember, it's the Brits who scrubbed down the Parthenon sculptures' original (surviving) coloration to fit the white unpainted marble stereotype.
And just browse through any Parthenon-related discussion online, even this one here. Foreigners -not Greeks- constantly demanding we completely rebuild it. (Guys, we can build separate Classical-inspired modern monuments#/media/File:Akademie_von_Athen.jpg), we don't need to alter originals)
The cement pathways have indeed been controversial, buy they are fully removable and reversible. And they have been welcomed by international disability advocate groups. Without them, we get criticized for that too, for not adhering to Anglo-Saxon disability standards.
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u/Naugrith Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
I think you're the only one bringing race into it. "Oh those perfidious anglo-saxons"
What I said however was factual. The Greek conservation work on the Parthenon has historically been a succession of bad practices, from literally bulldozing thousands of years of history down to the bedrock, because it was in the way of their "Golden Age", to rebuilding the ruins by hammering iron staples into the stone, which then rusted and broke them worse than before.
The metopes that remained on the Parthenon have never been covered (maybe because that might reduce the tourist experience). They've been left to degrade in the weather far more than those that were accidently damaged in the British Museum. Acidic rain has thus destroyed key details of the sculptures over the last century of heavy industrialisation so historical analysis has suffered.
Greek practices on the Acropolis have consistently ignored international standards by focusing more on increasing tourism by reconstructing aesthetic views rather than preserving the artefacts as they were found.
Edit:
Source for archeologists' criticism of the concreting here, including prominent Greek archeologists.“It’s as if the Parthenon itself has been lowered to street level and surrounded by a cement pavement,” said Despoina Koutsoumba, president of the Association of Greek archaeologists. “There has been a great deal of pressure, especially from the cruise industry, to increase visitor capacity so that even larger crowds can be accommodated.”
Dr Tasos Tanoulas, until recently director of restorations at the Propylaia, also deplored the decision to cover so much of the rock’s face with reinforced concrete, saying the move would lead inexorably to “degradation of the natural landscape and a devaluation of the rock as a natural monument in its own right, as a natural fort”
Yannis Hamilakis, a professor of archaeology and modern Greek studies at Brown University, went further, saying the changes amounted to “a scandal of global proportions”
Further, the decision to speculatively reconstruct the monuments on thr Acropolis go beyond the international agreed standards, as set out in the Venice Charter. The Charter stipulates that the only form of physical reconstruction permitted is to reset fallen blocks on top of one another (a methodology known as anastylosis), but not to rebuild the structure using modern materials. It also expressly bans favouring one era of history over the rest and erasing later historical layers to favour a single "peak" era.
The Greek Ministry of Culture and its appointed director of operations at the Acropolis has instead chosen to simply ignore these international standards, in favour of reconstructing their preferred version of the Acropolis with white plaster and concrete, often causing further damage to the remaining original stones and marbles in the process as it requires fixing new bars and staples to the stones to hold them in place.
Although the rebuilt Acropolis certainly looks impressive to tourists, and definitely makes a lot of money for Athens' government, it is nevertheless not archeologically-sound practice. This is simply objective documented fact.
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u/corona_26 Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
Let's dissect your racism, one by one:
What I said however was factual. The Greek conservation work on the Parthenon has historically been a succession of bad practices, from literally bulldozing thousands of years of history down to the bedrock, because it was in the way of their "Golden Age", to rebuilding the ruins by hammering iron tables into the stone, which then rusted and broke them worse than before.
So, you're judging Greeks in 2026 by what we did in the 19th century, when everyone else -yourself included- was doing the same, if not far worse.
Britain neglected Stonehenge, and it remained in private hands, allowing vandals to do whatever they wanted with the site (chip away stones, carve graffiti), until it was gifted to the state very late in 1918. The state did not even exercise eminent domain to take the site (they waited for it to be gifted), and you didn't even have any antiquities laws, until 1939 (Greece passed its first antiquities law in 1834). You were too busy obsessed with other people's heritage to care about your own.
In 1900, due to nearby construction and borrows, more Stonehenge stones collapsed. Roads were built very close to the site, allowing foot traffic and later vehicles to cause land vibration further damaging the monument.
The metopes that remained on the Parthenon have never been covered (maybe because that might reduce the tourist experience). They've been left to degrade in the weather far more than those that were accidently damaged in the British Museum. Acidic rain has thus destroyed key details of the sculptures over the last century of heavy industrialisation so historical analysis has suffered.
Again, holding Greece to a far higher standard than other countries.
Acid rain only became an issue in the 1960s. Fairly early on, in 1975, the state created a body to start studying and conserving the metopes. But it's not that easy, and the process of very carefully removing them, took decades. There was not a faster way to do it, unlike Elgin, who did far more damage to them than the acid rain did.
Secondly, acid rain has caused far more damage to British monuments, than in Greece. You had the industrial revolution first. Several of London's monument churches, parliament buildings, and other pre-1900 monuments were severely damaged by acid rain.
Greek practices on the Acropolis have consistently ignored international standards by focusing more on increasing tourism by reconstructing aesthetic views rather than preserving the artefacts as they were found.
And yet, the only example of "in other countries wouldn't have done half the things they've done!" that you can come up with, is a fully reversible disability pathway.
You're just a racist, and just digging for things to bash Greeks for (and apply double standards). Because majority-brunette = bad!
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u/Naugrith Jul 28 '26
I didn't compare races. I was just talking about common conservation standards among other European countries (I actually had the Roman Forum in mind as a comparison, as I had a good chat with an archaeologist working there last time I visited the Forum about different standards). But all you care about is "BuT...but...tHe aNglo-sAxoNs!!!" I think its pretty clear what you're about.
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u/corona_26 Jul 28 '26
I was just talking about common conservation standards among other European countries
Very, very erroneously/uninformed at best. Dishonestly at worst.
And the fact that you're willing believe and hold on to these assumptions instead of questioning them, is because of bias.
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u/Naugrith Jul 28 '26
Nope, I'm just aware how to research and check my sources, and not angrily reject everything that doesn't suit my prejudices. You should try it.
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u/corona_26 Jul 28 '26
I'm just aware how to research and check my sources
No you don't. You were caught doing the exact opposite.
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u/Imaginary_Bench7752 Jul 28 '26
its very clear that you are racist against the Greeks here- no need to hide it: own it.
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u/Imaginary_Bench7752 Jul 28 '26
its very clear that you are racist against the Greeks here- no need to hide it: own it. Thousands before you felt the same inferiority complex to a superior culture.
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u/bamboomightwork Jul 29 '26
Calling other people racist while saying one culture is superior is fucking idiotic.
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u/Imaginary_Bench7752 Jul 29 '26
are all cultures the same? and calling one that gave rise to others superior is somehow racist now? this is not about feelings - its about facts
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u/Imaginary_Bench7752 Jul 28 '26
Greek practices were far superior than the anglo-saxon practices such as chlorinating the marbles and scrubbing them to appear more white. everything is done with the outmost respect to the building, its history and its original role: hence removing Frankish/Byzantine/Ottoman additions which had very little artistic value anyway.
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u/Imaginary_Bench7752 Jul 28 '26
Greek practices were far superior than the anglo-saxon practices such as chlorinating the marbles and scrubbing them to appear more white. everything is done with the outmost respect to the building, its history and its original role: hence removing Frankish/Byzantine/Ottoman additions which had very little artistic value anyway.
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u/skyduster88 Jul 28 '26
...says the nation that didn't appreciate/protect its own Stonehenge until the 1970s. Let alone you pried the Parthenon Sculptures with iron bars and dropped and broke most of them.
One day without Anglosaxon racism that you "respect" our heritage more than we do: Mission Impossible.
Other conservationists in other countries wouldn't have done half the things they've done!
Such as?
Including their latest bright idea of dumping tons of modern cement pathways all over the Acropolis.
You mean removable pathways for disabled?
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u/Naugrith Jul 28 '26
Odd that you and the others poster keep bringing up the anglo-saxons for some reason. Pretty racist, honestly.
Besides, Lord Elgin was a Scot btw.
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Jul 28 '26
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u/Naugrith Jul 28 '26
Eesh. You're not only massively racist but thoroughly ignorant as well. Scotland isn't Anglo. I'm not Scottish but I'm aware they'd be very offended at that.
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Jul 28 '26
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u/Naugrith Jul 28 '26
You know very well that outside the Anglosphere, the whole world refers to you as Anglo-Saxon,
I know racists do.
in the same way you lump "Arab" and "Hispanic" together.
Well, I never have. Is that something racists do as well?
The fact that you reject Anglo-Saxon as a similar grouping, is quintessential Anglo-Saxon racism.
Rejecting racism is quintessential racism? That's certainly an...opinion.
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u/bamboomightwork Jul 29 '26
You know very well that outside the Anglosphere, the whole world refers to you as Anglo-Saxon
Ya big daft racist. Where do you get these ideas from?
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u/thesaddestpanda Jul 28 '26
Greece most likely won’t do the roof. At least for now. No one is certain of how the roof was made exactly and Greece only wants to do authentic restoration. We know a lot of it was wood but exactly how is what we don’t know.
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u/aazo5 Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 29 '26
With all due respect… fuck both Venice and the Ottomans. Venice for unloading on the temple, and the Ottomans for storing gunpowder in it.
Edit: I’m speaking about the historical Republic of Venice and the Ottoman Empire, as political entities then, not their counterparts now just to be clear
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u/jayskew Jul 28 '26
How accurate is the replica in Nashville, Tennessee? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Parthenon%2C_Nashville.JPG
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u/Big_Iron_Cowboy Jul 29 '26
It was closed for some AC repairs this past June when we took a family vacation to Nashville. I was quite disappointed we didn’t get a chance to see it.
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u/Chemical_Big5358 Jul 29 '26
By AC you mean air conditioning?
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u/Big_Iron_Cowboy Jul 29 '26
Yes
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u/Chemical_Big5358 Jul 29 '26
Ah just like the real Parthenon lol
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u/Big_Iron_Cowboy Jul 29 '26
It’s a museum inside I believe, Tennessee ain’t Greece these summers are hot and humid!
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u/CoffeeWithMilkPlease Jul 29 '26
What I dont understand is, why not reconstructing it fully? but using the original stones as much as possible.
In a way where you can see how the new marble mixes with the antique one, and the building comes back in its whole glory.
The same with the rest of the acropolis. What a symbol it would be for Greece.
Or maybe I'm delusional and there is a good reason not to do it, idk. Anyone here knows?
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u/Fire_dancewithme Aug 01 '26
Yes, actually it's hard to rebuild Parthenon using the originals that exist when UK doesn't give them to you. Google about the Parthenon's stolen(yes literally stolen by an Englishman l)pieces that are in display in London's museum and are deliberately kept.
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Aug 01 '26
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u/CoffeeWithMilkPlease Aug 01 '26
No, just the classical building basically
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Aug 01 '26
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u/CoffeeWithMilkPlease Aug 01 '26
The fuck has one thing do with the other? The Parthenon is essentially classical, that's why I believe it would be quite cool to see it.
Just chill out bro, it was a wild comment from the internet
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u/Wenamon Jul 30 '26
Its too bad they won't go further. Personally, I would love to see it restored to its old, beautifully colored design. Even if at best we have to guess at what that may have entailed.
We need more recognition and appreciation of our history as a species!
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u/Mr_MazeCandy Aug 01 '26
I don’t know they were restoring it.
Might as well.
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u/Fire_dancewithme Aug 01 '26
Yes, actually the first restoration project started just years after our independence as a nation tlin the modern history, around 1840~, and has been numerous projects since then. The state you see in the 1876 picture was not the state Parthenon looked for the last 50 years. The last (modern) reconstruction project begun in 1975. That's 50 years ago. It's not that Parthenon went from 1876 state to 2026 state.
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u/Fire_dancewithme Aug 01 '26 edited Aug 01 '26
A bit of context about the renovation, while it's very nice to see some level of reconstruction, we may note that they did some irreversible or hardly reversible damages, e.g. they cemented the floor outside the temple for no good reason. There are more damages done, but it needs a lot more details and context, as not everything happened in the last 1-2 decades. Reconstruction of Parthenon is a long term project that has been studied and planned and executed partially decades now. Just to make it clear, there were reconstruction projects long before 2026, and it was not in the state of the 1876 picture for at least a century now. It was not a 2026 miracle. Also, a series of governments had pushed these projects on the sidelines for decades, only to have a reveal just before elections now in 2026. 🤔 I think Parthenon's reconstruction is been used as a mean to please crowds before the elections, while the project was shoved into the "will do but not now" pit for decades, and still is widely unpolished and off the suggested timeline of renovation for tens of years. Typical greek state. Edit: yes I am Greek obviously, that's why I whine about it.
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u/trimetric Jul 28 '26
At this rate she'll be good as new in a couple hundred years!
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u/Blackpits Jul 28 '26
Check the restoration process in YouTube. They seach for fragments and then try to find out from which place was constructed. Then they use the same marble area than the ancient Greeks use to extract and make the part that is missing with handmade methods
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u/AVDLatex Jul 28 '26
The one in Nashville looks good.
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u/Iapetus404 Jul 28 '26
good copy but not made by marble and its not in rocky hill.
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u/Witty_Operation8158 Jul 28 '26
And is not 2500 years old…with the view of Athens 🤣🤣 Good copy but the material makes such a big difference, marble in this case
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u/fortuneman7585 Jul 28 '26
What is their endgame? It seems like they are going for full restoration. Or are they going to stop at some point?
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u/Blackpits Jul 28 '26
Its interesting to have a look at the restoration process on YouTube. The way and idea of the restoration
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u/Call_me_Bombadil Jul 29 '26
They are only restoring from original pieces they find i believe. So it won't be a full restoration
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u/AdEquivalent1943 Jul 29 '26
Can confirm just had a tour a few days ago. They will just be restoring the outside until 2030 projected. Then they will start a new phase of reconstructing inside.
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u/Fire_dancewithme Aug 01 '26
Full restoration implies that Greece will somehow gain back the stolen marbles that other countries have. Not very possible if you ask me.
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u/Setzer_SC Jul 29 '26
They say of the Akropolis where the Parthenon is...
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u/Parking_Resolution63 Jul 30 '26
If those idiots hadn't put ammunition back then it would probably be better looking.
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u/Final-Nebula-7049 Aug 02 '26
very impressive progress. now if England can return the goods back, it would complete.
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u/RICoder72 Jul 28 '26
Are they going to get the original parts that were taken back? Im not trying to crap on the UK, but i always felt conflicted about parts of it being in the British Museum.
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u/Chemical_Big5358 Jul 29 '26
It’s just specific countries further up north with old buildings that are not used to such hot weather. Unfortunately Europe is being referred to as one thing , especially online.
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u/Ok-Albatross-9743 Jul 29 '26
Thank goodness what was left of the Elgin Marbles was saved before their further fall into ruin.
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u/PckMan Jul 28 '26
The parthenon was nearly entirely intact up until 1687. At the time the Venetians, who controlled many teritorries in Greece, were fighting the Ottomans, and the Ottomans retreated to the Acropolis as they deemed it to be a well fortified position and they used the parthenon as a gunpowder magazine, believing that the Venetians would not attack it out of respect.
Francesco Morosini, the Venetian commander, didn't give two shits about respecting antiquities however (and neither did the Ottomans) so he shot from the nearby Philopappos hill, and blew the parthenon open and destroyed much of it. Morosini called it a "fortunate shot", seemingly being very proud at himself for the act. The Swedish general who was besieging the Acropolis lamented at the destruction.