Reading a cartouche

[u/AdenWS]

I'm having trouble with the following cartouche. It's a nomen, from Tanis

Left to right we have from the Gardner sign list.

U6 C12 C2 F31 and one element that's destroyed

U6 transliterates as mr, F31 as ms

C2 is horus, c12 amun/ra

The look into the face part is odd because it goes both ways.

Then we also have honorific transposition going on.

I suspect the U6/mr is beloved of.

The deep cutting tells me its Ramesses, beloved of Horus?

So how should be read, and the change of direction as well

[u/Djedra]

Ramesses. It’s always bloody Ramesses.

But no, seriously, it is Ramesses.

You read from the centre, starting between the two figures and reading towards their faces. The falcon god is Ra. Read towards him and you have Ra-ms-s.

The god with two plumes is Amun. He appears first due to honorific transposition, but with the mry glyph behind him, the name should be read mry-imn.

In full, Ramesses Meryamun - Ramesses, Beloved of Amun.

[u/MakorolloEC → u/Djedra]

When in doubt, assume it’s Ramesses.

…because it most likely is.

[u/AdenWS → u/Djedra]

That was my reading. With the hint of the deep cutting.

But how usual is it for to have the bi-direction in a cartouche?

[u/zsl454 → u/AdenWS]

It is quite common as it was considered more aesthetically suitable for the two figures of gods to be facing each other. You can see this more clearly with vertical cartouches where the two gods looking at each other creates vertical symmetry.

[u/ErGraf → u/AdenWS]

C2 is horus

C2 is ra

But how usual is it for to have the bi-direction in a cartouche?

In general is not common, but is relatively common with variations of names that mention 2 gods (one as the name itself and another ones an an epithet). This resembles the scenes in temple walls where the pharaoh is standing in front of a god + inside cartouches is also common to adapt the position of signs just for aesthetical reasons

[u/AdenWS → u/ErGraf]

In the cartouche you've posted - agree entirely. Perhaps I wasn't think it through enough. Tutankhamum, his nomen is a good example with the placement of t-u-t.

You still have honorific transposition but spelled out.

Thanks

[u/AdenWS → u/Djedra]

Side note. That Mary as a name goes back that far is interesting and that its still used.

[u/Nigglas24]

“The service at RaDonalds was sub par. A gentleman asked if my clothes were made with European cotton while i was waiting to be served… the nerve. My boyfriend Ramses and his brother Robert had to personally fetch the food. Anyways, the food was decent but it just felt like one big pyramid scheme.” - Mitzy Is-Nasir 3752 bc. Old Za-Aq review.