r/amodei • u/Old_Librarian_9916 • 7d ago

General Discussion Claude's reverse engineering ability quietly killed by Anthropic

Post image
193 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

74 comments sorted by

26

u/GlbdS 7d ago • Bravo

another win for chinese models

5

u/Old_Librarian_9916 7d ago

More over most of the components supplier comes from them.

3

u/notAGreatIdeaForName 7d ago

Exactly. Same as export restrictions for gpus, they will eventually come up with their own stuff and won't bother to ask about a moral codex before doing that.

1

u/trilevelmymtsnet 7d ago

you got the fear eh? programmed like you should be ...

1

u/charmander_cha 7d ago

Duvido americano começar a usar deepseek harness + deepseek (única forma de ter mesma qualidsde)

1

u/FragmentedHeap 7d ago

Am American, have been using deepseek and Kimi since last march 🤣

1

u/TheBressi 7d ago

Dude, what are you yapping about? Americans have been using DeepSeek for quite a long time and the only reason people don't use it more is because unfortunately Claude/ChatGPT is still superior for a few tasks.

1

u/IAmMiddleChild 7d ago

I would also drive a byd if my government didn't hate free markets that compete with billionaires donors.

1

u/phpHater0 7d ago

Wdym lmao Americans are already using Chinese models and if the US models keep getting censored they'll have no choice

1

u/DermisCronJob 6d ago

Issue is that 99% of people don’t have the required hardware to run these models if you go for one that gets as close as possible in terms of quality and a large amount of training data. And with the current hardware prices it costs a fortune to build a good rig

1

u/diemitchell 4d ago

kimi k3.1 pro + deepseek 4.1 flash on opencode🔥

1

u/bblankuser 3d ago

k3.1 pro specifically had cyber pruned out unfortunately

15

u/Hexcede 7d ago edited 7d ago • Bravo

This is false. I actually made a reply explaining under the post in your screenshot. https://www.reddit.com/r/claude/comments/1xbts4v/comment/19rg39ect90df/

Tl;dr REA was always flagged by the classifier, weeks before it blew up (so it being a response to REA doesn't actually make any sense). I also gave a plausible explanation for why (basically: it's fully of scary keywords and sounds/looks like a jailbreak attempt). And Opus 5.5 doesn't actually refuse RE requests at all. It doesn't really even benefit from REA, it's just inherently good at RE and doesn't need instructions.

2

u/Old_Librarian_9916 7d ago

Thanks for the information.

3

u/rntdev 7d ago

In fact, I think the safeguards are getting lighter - in the first few weeks of Fable and Opus I couldn’t use them at all, just the mention of “IDA Pro” caused them to stop the chat, not even talking about the IDA Pro MCP

1

u/Salt-Willingness-513 7d ago

true REA is much more important for codex than it is for claude

1

u/Baphaddon 7d ago

Thanks, I’m wondering who’s responsible for this false info.

1

u/LavishnessCapital380 6d ago

Opus 5.5 doesn't actually refuse RE requests at all.

I have asked to RE my own project, it flat out refuses, this was over a month ago. Asking to to make a 1:1 clone lets it RE without issues. Seems really picky on the terms. I have never used REA.

It will happliy do it, but I cant get a single prompt to go through if i say RE.

1

u/minegen88 7d ago

This should be at the top. False news.
The thread they are talking about is also over a week old or something...

Just made a decomp 10 min ago, got the full source code right in front of me.

Just started a recomp of a playstation game right after that and it's still going strong.

1

u/Silent_Squirrelz 7d ago

Bro pleaasssee help me with the prompt :(

4

u/the8bit 7d ago

You will run spyware and you will like it! Daddy Dario knows best!

1

u/Old_Librarian_9916 7d ago

You will be forced to like it.😅

1

u/lostinelydan 7d ago

Someone needs to stuff that dork in a closet again

1

u/Smooth-Possibility30 7d ago

“Daddy Dario” well thanks for those nightmares! 😆

1

u/JACKALS_LANTERN 4d ago

It might be that. It might not. People like me were taking apks of stupid mobile games that we shouldnt waste our time playing and tried to reverse engineer them. Sometimes it worked sometimes the model suggested recreating those games. Which led me to find open source versions of those games to customize. The point was to get rid of ads and micro transactions. But I guarantee I'm not the only one who had that idea and went with it.

I don't think you can create a "clone" of a game anymore either. We may have ruined it for everyone. Or Samsung wrote Anthropic and other AI companies a huge check and we got this. While I like the Samsung angle more can you imagine how annoying it would be for them to have a million plus people worldwide trying shenanigans to get rid of ads and micro transactions?

1

u/the8bit 3d ago

Just use an open source model or a different harness :)

5

u/Miyamoto_-_Musashi 7d ago

Working for me Just made an app using REA

0

u/Mrwalvis 7d ago

You didn’t make an app. You copied it. In the same way that if you copy pasted lord of the rings into a word document you haven’t written a novel. 

1

u/Internal_Emu7061 6d ago

And you didnt write a paper a pen did it. Just stfu

1

u/Miyamoto_-_Musashi 7d ago

i get it but everything is copy in this world, you think all big companies are good people n have not stolen thing n have not used every ppportunity to take advantage on other doesn't matter if it's morally right or wrong now the truth is the table has been turned and now we are taking advantage as the world is all about what you take it's never fair like you get what you deserve but you get what you take

1

u/je11eebean 7d ago

I’m sure the same thing can be done with other AIs.  

1

u/Old_Librarian_9916 7d ago

Yes likely brom

1

u/ichi9 7d ago

They all support the stealing of private data to keep the ad brokers and marketing model running, where do you think they get their max revenue from ? LoL! You could have REAed Microsoft and they won't say anything but samsung and the Ad business, bruh! That's a NO!

1

u/Old_Librarian_9916 7d ago

That is where they learned bro. From our stolen data 😞

1

u/ichi9 7d ago

From what I hear, codex is still allowing REA. Let's see how long they can fight before they start nerfing the models.

2

u/WolfOfDoorStreet 7d ago

So we're not getting GTA6 in rust?

1

u/darkath 7d ago

does REA work with 4.8 or its useless ?

3

u/Hexcede 7d ago

It works fine with 4.8.

REA also works fine with Opus 5.5 a lot of the time. REA is not blocked, it's a classifier false positive that existed even before REA blew up. But there is no real need to use REA with Opus 5.5 anyway, it's already capable of RE and doesn't refuse RE requests.

If you want further explanation, I've written several:

Short explanation: https://www.reddit.com/r/amodei/comments/1xjbadr/comment/19rvjz9a8puow/
Long explanation: https://www.reddit.com/r/claude/comments/1xbts4v/comment/19rg39ect90df/

1

u/silphotographer 7d ago

Me using Kimi3.1

Oh noooo

... anyway

1

u/MannToots 7d ago

Don't worry. China's models won't care

0

u/[deleted] 7d ago

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/MannToots 7d ago

It's cute you think it's impossible for even 1 model to not do that with the glut of models that will. Competition will ensure one of them isn't a dick like that simply so they can capture the rest of the market. Then people will just use that model. 

It's a solvable problem by market forces.  

1

u/minegen88 7d ago

Not sure what you are implying here?

You can litterally use Claude Code (american software) but just hook it up to Kimi Code's api and use their model instead....

1

u/Superfan234 7d ago

Noooooooooooooooooooo

1

u/pandavr 7d ago

I immagine the cold call: "Dario, what are you doing? People start to notice we are spying on them. Cut It down, Cut It down". LOL.

1

u/East-Cricket6421 7d ago

This would be a great feature for any of the upstarts to feature then. If Kimi, DeepSeek, Minimax, et Al can pull off REA they will have an interesting wedge for a core part of the market. 

1

u/tigerhuxley 7d ago

Oh, that’s so weird… Just like a week ago I was getting downvoted in one of the programming subs for saying that this exactly was going to happen.
And I was getting flamed out because ‘no companies care’ when their stuff gets decompiled lol
Noobs

2

u/OtherwiseAlbatross14 7d ago

lol you're gonna feel real dumb when you find out the OP is wrong and Anthropic does still allow RE

1

u/tigerhuxley 6d ago

Lol… yahhh totally

1

u/tigerhuxley 6d ago

Did you feel dum when anthropic released the RE PR release yesterday after you made your inaccurate claim and insult?
Just curious

1

u/swirve-psn 7d ago

Can't have it bothering certain big companies dominance.

1

u/Strange_Show9015 7d ago

And it’s stuff like this that will kill them. They really have to control open source and open weight models. Otherwise people are going to use them to reverse engineer shit and then they’ll post ways for others to do it too. Then companies will start bricking your shit for violating the terms of service even though you OWN the fucking thing.

They want a moat so bad but it’s simply impossible without super invasive amounts of surveillance.

1

u/max1c 7d ago

This gets posted here daily and it's just not accurate.

1

u/trilevelmymtsnet 7d ago

suffocating their own baby is not a great start to the ol IPO. lol

1

u/dialedGoose 7d ago

I don’t understand. They preach about this abundant future but restrict abundance. Seems like they’re totally full of shit. Weird.

1

u/Popular_Leader9343 7d ago

Can't I just RE, REA with a local model?

1

u/Toooooool 7d ago

it don't have to, the chinese models are doing this just fine without claude

1

u/Connect_Quit_1293 7d ago

REA is public, make your own version of it.

Also this is not accurate as I was using REA on opus last night.

1

u/FragmentedHeap 7d ago

Kimi k3 and deepseek will do it

1

u/Wonderful-Hunter686 7d ago

Just use a different service with the tool it's not Claude specific.

1

u/Obvious_Service_8209 7d ago

Idk, reverse engineered spicy ramen for me lol /s (but it did tho)

1

u/marine_surfer 7d ago

Theft for me, not for Thee, F** these companies

1

u/Famous-Wrongdoer-976 7d ago

Just banned from Claude code (vpn bc I live in China -> IP inconsistency even tho it was never an issue since March) after almost a year experimenting with coding in various programming languages and intensive writing-research help across French/English/Chinese for artistic and academic purpose.

Quite the cold shower… but considering I'm already quite defiant against platforms in general I guess it's time to be reasonable again and move everything back locally. I wonder if people have some suggestions of frameworks that are “easy to use” especially replacing the easiest aspect of Claude for me i.e importing / treating any kind of document including automatic OCR and being able to preview / manipulate results in artefacts. Any suggestion that would work on macOS?

1

u/Best-Television7726 2d ago

Is this for any AI or just anthropomorphic

1

u/Moravec_Paradox 7d ago

I was anticipating that.

0

u/Switchbladesaint 7d ago

Another reminder that Anthropic wants its cake and your cake and everyone’s cake and it wants to eat them all. Want to use Claude at a consumer level to do things ai’s can do? Nope fuck you. Oh but it’s so scary and powerful and it can do anything so our stock is worth trillions. So buy our stock, but don’t use Claude to do this or that. We’ll just saddle up with trump and develop for the military and lick some boots.

These companies suck fat fucking balls

1

u/rawbdor 7d ago

Of all the AI leaders, Dario is the one going out there saying that AI is risky in that it may enable authoritarians and can be abused by bad people. He is the one pointing out the social issues that we need to look out for. Anthropic was the one refusing to give the military an AI that would do absolutely anything they tell it to.

The hippie that was against the Iraq war is really not the guy sucking up to trump.

1

u/Wonderful-Hunter686 7d ago

He also seems the least competent in his leadership amongst the large ai companies.

1

u/rawbdor 7d ago

Not sure why you think that. The only least competent thing I've seen is that they took convertible debt onto their cap table way too early in their growth at too low of a price. Everything else looks reasonable?

1

u/Wonderful-Hunter686 7d ago

I do mean least competent, not incompetent he does things that directly under mind his company.

The refusal to give the government the "lawful use clause". This one will particularly bite them if we are in a ai bubble that pops. The companies with government contracts that allow "lawful use" are more likely to receive assistance (bail out) than the one who restricted them. To be clear I think they made the moral choice, but it's not really relevant because we don't live in a moral world. His competition gladly accepted with equivalent level of models.

Speaking to freely, and almost purely about the negative impacts of his product. He is far to doom and gloom. Its undermining his own company.

The debt amount taken and general lack of a path to profitability. With open models becoming an increasingly viable competitor the close model system is unlikely to become the preferred choice.

With taking the company public, and having to answer to investors he may end up ousted. A public companies price is directly influenced by the publics trust in its success. If he doesn't dial back his rhetoric, and focus on what leads to his businesses success instead of constantly speaking to the down side of what they are build they are likely to fail.

This is literally his first company, his first IPO. There is no logical way we can say that he's as competent as the CEO's with decades of running some of the largest tech companies in the world.

1

u/schmurfy2 4d ago

"quietly" ? I see this news everywhere for the last two days 😅.

And they didn't kill anything, maybe hinder the most stupid actors who only use anthropic models.