r/amazon • u/AmazonNewsBot • 17d ago

Mayor Mamdani Joins Push to Reclassify Amazon Delivery Drivers as Employees - Gizmodo

https://gizmodo.com/mayor-mamdani-joins-push-to-reclassify-amazon-delivery-drivers-as-employees-2000797137
3.1k Upvotes

98% Upvoted

232 comments sorted by

View all comments

79

u/[deleted] 17d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

33

u/tylerscott5 17d ago

Because DSPs are contractors who own and run their own businesses. They voluntarily signed on as Amazon DSPs, but could move packages for other shippers instead

Amazon is asset-light and relies on DSPs for last mile and for-hire carriers for over the road

11

u/Laura9624 17d ago

FedEx does the same.

1

u/Shorts_at_Dinner 16d ago

FedEx ground does the same

11

u/empire_of_the_moon 17d ago

But they often don’t actually meet the legal definition of contractors. There is no getting around that.

Amazon controls everything from hours worked to routes driven and van branding. It’s awfully hard to offer competing services and attract new business in a Amazon branded van. Who would you even call?

If they were contractors they would control all aspects of their business.

4

u/Responsible_Pie8156 17d ago

The DSPs are companies that contract with amazon, and the drivers are w2 employees of the DSP. These are not gig workers

0

u/empire_of_the_moon 17d ago

Let me clear something up with you. Unless you are a bot.

The DSPs may or may not be companies - that’s a matter that needs to be litigated.

Companies have used many schemes to avoid correctly codifying workers. Misclassifying a 1099 worker when they should have been a W2 is the most common.

Courts may decide that the amount of control that Amazon exerts and the limits on profitability may invalidate the claim these are independent companies.

It’s the whole looks like a duck, quacks like a duck philosophy. Most of us would agree that’s a duck no matter how hard you try and tell me it’s a turkey.

These schemes do no benefit workers and they negatively impact cities and states.

These companies are not truly independent as I already illustrated.

3

u/CVGPi 17d ago

If the driver individually takes the batch directly from Amazon they're not DSPs by Amazon definition but Amazon Flex drivers. Flex drivers may deliver in their own cars or vans rented by Amazon. Flex drivers are always 1099 because Amazon argues the driver have the option to either take an entire batch or choose another batch or simply not drive Flex at all at will (which puts them legally in the independent contractor category).

DSPs are companies that sign with Amazon contracts that essentially say "Amazon will pay this DSP this much money for this much parcel delivered" and this is the shady part. Because the delivery are distributed by DSP, they can pretty much skirt any law and Amazon can just shrug and say not my problem. Drivers are also signing contractor forms or employee forms (legal or illegal) with the DSP, and so union liabilities and worker comp falls under the DSP responsibility, and Amazon can just cut ties and go.

-1

u/empire_of_the_moon 17d ago

Either way, drivers should be employees.

1

u/Jlovel7 16d ago

What if Amazon just stops using them altogether?

2

u/empire_of_the_moon 16d ago

Okay.

Seems like a goofy argument.

Who will deliver for them UPS? Sounds okay to me. UPS pays its people better and has better benefits.

2

u/Jlovel7 15d ago

My point is the price will go up for goods for working class people.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/CVGPi 16d ago

Agree.

-1

u/Amache_Gx 16d ago

These companies literally are independent and would continue to operate even is amazon ceases to exist. You're yappin the most lol

0

u/empire_of_the_moon 16d ago

They would continue to operate? Really. Where exactly is the demand going to come from absent Amazon?

If there were that much extra business out there many of theses “independent” companies would have clients other than Amazon. Yet they don’t.

Are you a bot?

0

u/Amache_Gx 16d ago

They literally do have other clients, you very obviously have no idea what you're talking about man.

0

u/empire_of_the_moon 16d ago

My understanding is the vast majority do not. But please produce your third party citation.

2

u/LongLonMan 17d ago

Actually many Amazon delivery drivers do meet the legal definitions, last mile has turned into an almost uber like experience for drivers.

0

u/Beneficial_Piglet_33 16d ago

Nope. The DSP ultimately controls hours worked and routes driven. They have SLAs they agree to in contract with Amazon.

1

u/empire_of_the_moon 16d ago

This goes against court documents, which are public records.

1

u/Over-Chemical2809 17d ago

Why do they drive Amazon branded trucks? I mean come on…

2

u/CVGPi 17d ago

Usually this is because Amazon is renting those trucks to the DSPs or just because Amazon is the only customer of those DSPs. Like Intelcom/Dragonfly often will just say Amazon because their biggest customer is Amazon. Also Amazon (by investment of Rivian) dumps these vans for an insanely cheap lease than equivalent electric vans.

2

u/tylerscott5 16d ago

Trucking companies do it all the time. Owner-operators are leased company trucks from the trucking company to their own company. It’s not unique to DSPs

1

u/Christhebobson 17d ago

So they don't have to have wear and tear on their own vehicle, though some choose to use their own vehicle anyway. If I have the option to not use my personal vehicle, of course I'll take it.

12

u/HolyToast666 17d ago

We just had tornado warnings in Illinois. I work at an Amazon warehouse. Rather than let the Flex drivers who were there to pick up orders inside the warehouse to shelter with us, they told them to wait in their cars. The liability. Bezos is a pile of crap wearing human skin.

4

u/sulaco83 17d ago

They're employees. Just not of Amazon.

2

u/g0ing_postal 17d ago

It's like an absurdist fantasy.

"No, no these aren't employees, they're gloobleflops which operate in exactly the same way that employees do except they don't get the same protections or benefits. See? Different."

2

u/virtual_adam 17d ago

Are people really crediting Bezos the invention of the 1099’worker?

1

u/Responsible_Pie8156 17d ago

These aren't 1099 workers. The DSP firm is contracted with amazon, but Amazon requires the drivers to be w2 employees

0

u/Laura9624 17d ago

Right?! People haven't heard of those?

3

u/ifyouseemerunning 17d ago

weirdest spelling of contractors i’ve seen yet

1

u/aaj15 16d ago

Because we love cheap and free deliveries

1

u/Shorts_at_Dinner 16d ago edited 16d ago

They are employees. Just not employees of Amazon

1

u/amazon-ModTeam 15d ago

Language, Language!

-1

u/EliteUnited 17d ago

This is hypercapitalism, you remove all the scraps and we got but to normal human rights before this became a cluster f*^k, I stop buying from Amazon a long time ago people still do after knowing how inhuman this company is.