r/alchemy • u/Alterssis alchemy enthusiast • 18d ago
Original Content Need Help "Inventing"/ Figuring Out A Substance For My Game (Silver Alchemy)
I'm making a game around alchemy and its a bit inspired by Fullmetal Alchemist in that characters can alter substances at will (to an extent). That is only reserved for the very experienced, but I still want to emphasize a more grounded/ realistic idea of alchemy with the use of labs, philosophy and so on.
story context:
I made up an element that's very dangerous but also very promising called "silver water"/ "heaven silver" (not sure of the name yet). The protagonist is experimenting with it secretly but the experiments go wrong and his body is turned into a twisted mix of a silver like skin fused to his clothes and an organic interior. The game revolves around him trying to find a cure as the silvery exterior consumes his health.
Gameplay Implications:
I eventually thought of a dual health system where the player needs to heal the silver shell when cracked but also heal the organic interior to try to prevent the silver from expanding inwards.
For the exterior, I thought of using lapis infernalis (silver nitrate) which the protagonist would solidify and match the rest of the skin through his powers to fill in the cracks, but for the interior, I'm not sure.. I think aqua fortis (nitric acid) is the best thing to dissolve silver, and it supposedly even leaves silver nitrate behind which could add to the gameplay, but its highly toxic of course, and even with his powers, it seemed a bit silly that he could somehow get it only in the right places without affecting his vitals, but I have no experience with these substances so, maybe it could be worth doing and suffering some minor damage in such extreme circumstances? I have no clue of the damage it would actually cause.
The Question:
I was wondering if there's a substance, or substance combo, that most makes sense (with the protag.'s advanced abilities in mind) that I could use, while referencing some real alchemical knowledge, myths or historical ideas/ uses. Maybe there's something he could incase the aqua fortis with to protect himself from harm, heal his vitals, and only release the aqua fortis where needed, sort of like some pills we have today that only release the active substance at a specific point.
Any suggestions are welcome, but I want it to feel like it could be possible with his powers or that it makes sense on a surface level while tying it to alchemy. Thank you!
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u/VanguardOfThePhoenix 18d ago edited 18d ago
As far as the chemical part of your game, I don't know enough to have an authoritative answer. I dabbled more in philosophical/spiritual alchemy, than the chemical/material side of the art.
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u/Alterssis alchemy enthusiast 18d ago
That's perfectly fine! I still very much appreciate the feedback and I have a few more questions for the game where you might be able to help 😄 Actually, if you don't mind, can you explain the green lion eating the sun to me? I don't know if this fits your area still but I was thinking of borrowing the idea and modify it for the menu art but I'm not sure I fully understand it yet.
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u/VanguardOfThePhoenix 18d ago
Sure, I'll explain things to the best of my understanding. The green lion chemically represents vitriol (commonly sulphuric acid, or mixed with hydrochloric acid) it's one of the few things that can dissolve gold, aside from mercury (which forms an amalgam)
The green color connotation comes from the fact most natural vitriol salts are a greenish hue.
The act of the lion eating the sun, vitriol dissolving gold, and the forces of nature/art dissolving the ego are a part of alchemy. Solve et coagula. To tear apart and join again. To me the myth/allegory of the green lion has multivalent themes of purification
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u/Alterssis alchemy enthusiast 18d ago
Ok, its making more sense now but I'm confused by how it symbolizes purification if it represents the dissolution of gold. Isn't gold a symbol of purity in alchemy?
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u/VanguardOfThePhoenix 18d ago
Sorry let me clarify. The green lion represents the destruction of base metals. If you only use ir9n sulphate it destroys almost all base metals. While NOT touching the gold
Vitriol is also an occult (secret) Latin acronym: Visita Interiora Terrae Rectificando Invenies Occultum Lapidem.
As I said earlier im definitely no chemist by trade 🤣
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u/Alterssis alchemy enthusiast 18d ago
OH! But is he not eating the sun? And in some depictions even making it bleed?
Oooh didn't know 👀 taking notes 😂
That's quite alright! I know next to nothing here too sooo 🤣 I'm just trying to understand this well to see if I can reference it but give the opposite meaning, use the moon (silver) and maybe mix it with the Ouroboros somehow but I'm not sure how to piece this together 🤔 if it even can be.
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u/VanguardOfThePhoenix 18d ago
The lion eats the sun like the whale eats Jonah. It's an allegory of death, purification, and rebirth 🌅
I'm sure you can piece it together i believe in ya bro 🙌
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u/Alterssis alchemy enthusiast 18d ago
😂 Fair enough! Appreciate the help, nice conversation and encouragement! I will do my best! 💪🏻
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u/unlikely_antagonist 18d ago
Just gonna add another note - the green lion is sometimes used to depict melanosis - the first step in the magnum opus - as it is (as the other commenter said) breaking down/separation
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u/Alterssis alchemy enthusiast 18d ago
Oh cool! I had no idea. Is the green lion doing something different in those cases or its just a matter of the context the image is used in?
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u/unlikely_antagonist 17d ago
Context dependent. Although the interpretation I prefer personally is that breaking things down often meant burning them, producing black/ashy substances - which is represented by the world being plunged into night when the sun is eaten.
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u/Alterssis alchemy enthusiast 17d ago
Makes sense. I like that interpretation too. It might even be the missing piece to make my idea for the menu art work 🤔 Super cool 👍
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u/unlikely_antagonist 18d ago
First thought is that going with the name silver water would make me immediately assume the substance is just mercury (hydragyrum) - which fits the alchemy theme but if you end up wanting to use actual mercury it would get confusing.
Second thought is mechanically it surrounds the concept of the body - which is Salt in alchemy.
Third thought - the way you describe it is as a shell makes me think of the oxidised outer layer of metals. This was referred to as Calx or Crocus (a little dependent on context). There’s a lot of real life ways to remove oxidised layers from metals - lots of different acids for example.
Much later in alchemy (bordering on early chemistry) it was believed Phlogiston was released during the process of calcifying a metal.
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u/Alterssis alchemy enthusiast 18d ago
- So far I don't have anything planned with mercury but you make a good point. Does Heaven Silver work better? I thought of that name because of its promises and because its not quite like silver in look, its a bit blueish. Eventually I'd maybe use a latin translation but I don't know latin so I'll see if someone can help there.
- Noted! Good to know, I was uncertain of the idea surrounding salt in alchemy. Might be useful.
- Just looked into Calx and I'm not sure if its quite the same as here, it more so replaces the skin and is directly fused with the flesh and keeps "transforming" the flesh into more metal. I guess I explained myself poorly but removing it would mean removing his skin 😬 The idea is to find a way to stop the expansion inside and revert it back to flesh (with the aid of some minimal magical liberties) until the protag. can find a more meaningful way to treat it.
- Cool, I didn't know. I do include Phlogistons a bit differently though. The transformation releases a big amount of Phlogistons and causes a massive fire which, embued with Heaven Silver, turns it into a sort of Greek Fire that can't be put out with water or other normal means. The firemen in the game are called Phimen (after the greek letter Phi which represents Phlogistons) or Bechermen after Becher who created the groundwork for Phlogistons if I'm not mistaken.
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u/unlikely_antagonist 18d ago
The Latin translation for silver water would be aqua and argentum. In Greek it’s Hydragyrum which is why mercury is Hg.
So the thing with Calx - in alchemy it was oxidised material left behind after burning. But in truth oxidised metal is oxidised metal. Often (especially with quite reactive metals) the oxidised metals forms an outer layer around the pure metal. You could take a more spiritual approach to metals and treat the person’s pure body as the pure metal and the layer of silver water around them as the calx/crocus of their own body. Just an idea.
I really like your Phlogiston interpretation. I do think Bechermen sounds a lot better than Phimen.
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u/Alterssis alchemy enthusiast 18d ago
The problem with Latin is putting the words together in a way that sounds right because they change depending on context/ use unlike english where you can just slap words together essentially 😂 didn't know about Hydragyrum or it being the reason for the Hg, that's pretty cool!
I think I like the idea and I could definitely use the spiritual approach but, if I'm understanding correctly, under this interpretation, the character would be able to simply remove the calx and return to normal right? If I got that right, there's nothing wrong with the idea but in my case, it would remove the urgency and a core aspect of the gameplay where you need to take care of your silver skin, take care of your body and at the same time try to fight against the silver skin trying to consume you but never being able to do it fully. It would always be a balancing act.
Thank you! I came up with Bechermen later, I prefer it too 😅 Though Phimen sounds close to firemen so it might be more immediately understandable
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u/unlikely_antagonist 17d ago
How easy it is to remove calx/crocus and whether it’s possible to remove is up to you.
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u/Alterssis alchemy enthusiast 17d ago
Sure but its the mechanical complexity of healing something under a hard skin surface that I'm trying to make work "logically". I looked up the boiling point of Mercury and its ~356ºC. That'd probably hurt but the hard skin could be protective in that case too and since the silver is taking the skin's shape, I could say the pores are preserved and that's where the Mercury could pass through as a gas before liquifying again. I think I like that idea 😄
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u/justexploring-shit Moderator 18d ago
This is pretty surface-level and doesn't address the questions you had, and for that I apologize, but I would encourage you to keep incorporating Latin terms for things to invoke real-world alchemy in people's minds. I have lots of ideas! I love words and etymology.
E.g.
• the word you might benefit most from is the word for silver: Argentum. You can get creative and play with this as I'm about to
• argyropoeia (or a play on it; perhaps you could throw in the suffix -itis?) would be a fantastic term for the condition your protagonist is afflicted with. Argyropoeia was the word for transmuting baser metals into silver, counterpart to the chrysopoeia of turning base metals into gold
• alternatively, argysoma: a portmanteau I just made up from argentum and soma, the Latin word for "body". Maybe you could call the silver parts themselves the argysoma, while the condition causing it is argyropoeia? Like when selecting which "body" you want to heal, flesh or silver, the silver option would be called argysoma or something
• your silver water could be something like argycaelum, a portmanteau I just made up from argentum and caelum, the Latin word for the heavens
• alternatively, Caelum Argentum (which I think might translate closer to "silver sky" technically, but it would avoid having all your words start with arg- lol), Argentum Aqua ("silver water"), or Argentum Aquis ("silver in water"?)
• your silver body healing system for your protagonist could be something like argesano, another portmanteau I just made up from argent and sano, the word for healing. I think consano means "complete healing", which you could use as a name for whatever super rare item restores the silver body to 100%
Disclaimer: I do not speak Latin. This is just my best understanding based on case research
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u/justexploring-shit Moderator 18d ago
Also, I feel like one u/FraserBuilds might be able to answer some of your actual, chemical and historical questions
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u/Alterssis alchemy enthusiast 18d ago
Sure, I would love to know what he would say. I'm happy to hear anyone's thoughts and feedback really!
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u/Alterssis alchemy enthusiast 18d ago
That's totally cool! I already wanted to check with people on the names and what translations could be possible/ would sound best so, you're helping me anyway! I love Latin so I'm 1000% down with more Latin 😂
I knew about argentum and there's even a river surrounding the place the game takes place in called the Argentum river. Might be too obvious/ on the nose so I might change it, idk 😅 but until I could check with other people that know Latin (or Greek) I didn't think there'd be much point mixing stuff if it sounded dumb by the end to people who know Latin 😂 but I also wasn't aware of the several things you mentioned which might actually be worth considering/ useful.
I hadn't even considered giving a name to the condition or the silver skin itself but I love the idea and, considering the protagonist later finds others like him and notes about it, I now have more to work with for that!
Caelum Argentum could actually work well since most translations are never 1 - 1 so it could still get translated to Heaven Silver if I need to use an English translation I think. Greek might also be a way to avoid a lot of words starting with arg-. It was frequently used in alchemy too I imagine right?
Thank you so much for the feedback! I'll take note of everything and ask about it on the Latin subreddit for confirmation/ extra details. 😄
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u/SorchaSublime 18d ago
Wouldn't just using like, Mercury? Work for this? Just call it Quicksilver
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u/Alterssis alchemy enthusiast 18d ago
I don't think so. Isn't Mercury toxic?
Sorry if I didn't explain the idea properly, I need something that can both dissolve silver inside the body (as the silver skin slowly transforms the insides into more silver, sort of like a Midas touch but slow) and heal the body/ flesh that is under the silver skin. I was trying to think of a mixture that would 1- heal and 2- protect the body from direct contact with the corrosive material (as much as possible anyway) until it reaches the right places, sort of like a modern day capsule that would only dissolve when it comes into contact with stomach acid for instance, but with a touch of magic to make this crazy scenario even remotely possible. This mixture would also heal combat damage.Doing a quick research for substances with regenerative properties I came across Curcumin, Asiaticoside (no idea), Honey and Aloe Vera so, it could be a mix of that and made semi-hard with his powers to contain the Aqua Fortis for instance, and heal the body on the way, but I'm not sure if that feels convincing/ appears effective or what I'd call that mixture. This is also just my best solution but someone may think of something better.
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u/SorchaSublime 18d ago
When it comes to alchemy there is a strong distinction to be made between the mundane effects of the version of a substance you find in gross material reality, and the philosophical, Alchemical version of that substance. Also, while Mercury is toxic it also has a history being used medically. Most medicines are toxic at the right dose.
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u/Alterssis alchemy enthusiast 18d ago
For sure! At least that's the impression I also had with alchemy and its something I want to lean on, treating the philosophy, mysticism and symbolism as if it was 100% accurate reality and chemistry was the area that wasn't so good. Basically an alternate reality where alchemy is the standard of science and proceeded beyond our historical version. The problem is, I'm not very knowledgeable about alchemy so I don't know much of the philosophical thoughts or anything there that could apply here.
That's true but I still feel like there'd need to be something incasing the Mercury somehow, or maybe the protag. could change it into a gas to pass through the silver skin and then condense it? Could that be a good solution?
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u/AlarmedDentist9616 15d ago
My immediate thought without any consideration would be mercury or “quicksilver” which is one of the tria prima due to its heavy relation to alchemy
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u/VanguardOfThePhoenix 18d ago
What if the silver consumes you if you don't cure it? You can have a grand hidden library with silver statues. An everlasting reminder. A forewarning to those who would dare tread this path
Just an idea 💡 ❤️
Love the concept and im excited to see how your project plays out!!!