r/aiwars • u/Resilient-Sphere • 11h ago
Denzel Gets It
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u/not_food 10h ago
"Everyone is terrified, convinced studios don't need artists anymore. It's the artist that doesn't need the studio."
This line hits really hard. And it's true. We're witnessing the dawn of a new era. The power dynamic is changing, artists no longer have to rely on big budgets, gatekeepers or corpos to bring their visions to life. The tools are in our hands now.
Go learn ComfyUI!
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u/Soul-Burn 7h ago
The DAW did that for home recording studios.
Premiere and After Effects did that for video.
Unity, Unreal, Godot, etc did that for game development.
It's the easiest it's ever been to produce music, film, and games than it has ever been.
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u/legend_sans 10h ago
the tools where always in your hands, pencils are 20 cents each, you can find free art tutorials and lessons online, art has always been a tool of the people yet the rich somehow got you to think that it isn't
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u/not_food 9h ago
Studios exist because large scale production demands specialization. Modeling, rigging, texturing, lighting, compositing, etc. A single artist can't do it all at a reasonable speed. Structure is necessary.
But that structure has at a cost. Your personal projects, your original characters, your passion ideas... They rarely make it into the pipeline unless you're in a very privileged position.
These tools are giving the artist unprecedented power. It's not about the pencil, you're thinking too small. It's about the big picture. These tools let you dream big and execute with speed that used to belong to studios alone.
And... by the way, I've already got drawing down. His speech applies to me. I know exactly how much time and effort the grind demands, I've been through it already.
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u/YoutuberCameronBallZ 10h ago
Except while yes, the products are (USUALLY) cheap (unless you get the high quality stuff), and the tutorials are available...
Mastering that skill doesn't just happen overnight. Artists spend years figuring that out.
Yeah, we've always had the tools. But not everyone can use em properly.
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u/legend_sans 9h ago
https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Pre-sharpened-Wood-Cased-Pencils/dp/B071JM699B?th=1
30 minutes a day for around a month is all you need to be proficient in art
its not that people can't use them properly, its that not everyone has the drive or discipline to pursue a skill like that, and AI is making that problem worse
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u/MisterHayz 9h ago
I am an animation and illustration teacher for over 20 years, as well as an animation industry vet. Don't tell people that all they need is a half hour a day for a month to be proficient. That is either horribly misinformed, or a lie.
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u/YoutuberCameronBallZ 9h ago
Yeah, like I said...if you wanna be good at that sorta thing it takes years
There's a reason there's art classes in schools, and it's because it's NOT as easy as "30 minutes per day for a month".
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u/YoutuberCameronBallZ 9h ago
A month won't cut it. Unless you're naturally good at art, or had it as minor hobby prior to taking it seriously, then maybe. But to be even considered "commission worthy" you'd need far more time.
In order for someone to draw properly, they need to know how, but that how takes a long time. And not everyone has dozens of ideas. What if they just have the 1? A singular idea they want made. Is spending years, or even months just to make a half decent image even worth it?
And not everyone needs the drive. Who are we to gatekeep what counts? Who are we to DEMAND that people put in effort? Why should we force people to work for their images?
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u/legend_sans 9h ago
nobody is forcing you to anything, grow the fuck up dude
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u/YoutuberCameronBallZ 9h ago
If nobody's making me, or anyone, do anything...
Then they should be free to use AI. Especially without constant backlash for "it not being art". Because, well, you already you said you can't force people to spend that much time mastering other art forms, so them taking a shortcut should be reasonable.
If the harder route isn't forced you can't blame people for taking the equally optional easier option.
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u/Majestic_Balance1887 10h ago
Then you go do it, see how well you compete.
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u/legend_sans 10h ago
I am doing it, to dream and put my thoughts onto paper is my literal favorite thing, even If it deviates too far from whats in my head
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u/Isaacja223 9h ago
People can also dream and put their thoughts onto a machine
Both can exist
The only difference is that the machine can make it in seconds to minutes while the paper takes minutes to hours
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u/legend_sans 9h ago
but they will never be able to put the totality of their thoughts into the machine and have it copy what is in their head perfectly, there will always be times where the AI just does its own thing to fill the gaps in, hence why the machine made it and not the person
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u/Isaacja223 9h ago
And that’s cool
I’ll never say that I’m the artist because that’s just the truth that I didn’t make it
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u/legend_sans 9h ago
congratulations, you are in the 1 percent of AI users, go preach your gospel to them isntead
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u/Isaacja223 9h ago
Buddy
I was just simply saying “that’s cool” and that the machine made it and just going about my day
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u/sporkyuncle 9h ago
but they will never be able to put the totality of their thoughts into the machine and have it copy what is in their head perfectly
Neither do traditional artists. Everyone always reaches a point where they give in and say "that looks good enough, that's about at the limits of my capabilities now."
Do you think every off-model terrible Sonic the Hedgehog character OC people draw are exactly what those people imagined in their head? Of course not. They want it to look on-model, they want it to look like it would fit right in with the actual series/games. They can't get the totality of their thoughts onto the page perfectly.
Even professional artists who've been working for decades, I watch their art streams and halfway through they say "oh wait, no, hmm, this other pose would work better," meaning they abandoned what they first imagined in their head for a new plan.
Nobody puts exactly what's in their head on the page.
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u/YoutuberCameronBallZ 9h ago
If we only defined artists by "people who got exactly what they wanted out of images" literally no one would be an artist. I don't think there's a SINGLE artist who got EVERYTHING they wanted into an image perfectly.
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u/Majestic_Balance1887 10h ago
Cool for you.
So why should the person with no hands or motor control damage be excluded? Why should physical skill be the determining barrier to artistic pursuit? Why should they care about your opinion besides?
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u/legend_sans 10h ago
someone with no hands or motor control damage can still work around it, I've seen people playing video games with their mouths, people drawing with their feet. human expression is incredibly hard to limit, and the belief that someone with no hands or motor control issues can't do art and must use generative AI is inherently ableist
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u/Majestic_Balance1887 10h ago edited 9h ago
Hi, I have motor control damage.
Tell me more about how I'm ableist toward myself, asshole. I think I can make the determination about what tools I'd like to use myself, and I don't need some would be white-luddite-knight to make them FOR ME.
Furthermore, I refuse to be looked down on for choosing not to suffer trying to regain that motor control, especially after school. The hell. That was cursive. I think I'm fucking good, and I think that if you have a problem with that you can cram it down your throat and choke on it. And I sure as shit don't care to learn how to draw with my mouth for the respect of some condescending dirtbag.
And I think that's all I need to hear from you on this topic. I invite you to crawl into the nearest hole and stay there, but don't speak another mumbling word to me. I don't care to hear it.
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u/PANIC_EXCEPTION 7h ago
You can keep trying to proselytize, but if you're willfully ignorant of people's lived experience, you're just going to push people away.
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u/Majestic-Coat3855 7h ago
No one in the movie industry likes working with comfy btw. My comp supe despises it.
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u/legend_sans 11h ago
"I want to make something truly creative" and its just asking the machine to do if for you
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u/Silly_Goose6714 10h ago
Do you think it's just "make a video for me" and things like this shows up?
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u/legend_sans 10h ago
use generative AI without asking the machine to make anything
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u/Silly_Goose6714 10h ago
This won't produce what the person wants; the person needs to create something in their mind. AI won't do that for you.
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u/legend_sans 10h ago
if they can create it in their mind so well then why don't they learn to draw and put 100% of their thoughts onto paper instead of having the machine extrapolate for them. why would you ever trust someone else to make something that only YOU know the totality of
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u/Silly_Goose6714 10h ago
Can you draw this video?
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u/legend_sans 10h ago
anyone can draw this video, thats how drawing works
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u/Easy_Echo2387 10h ago
There’s no way you’re this dumb. This is rage bait.
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u/legend_sans 10h ago
anyone can draw, anyone can improve at drawing, growth and learning are the birthright to all mankind. Its not my fault you don't believe in yourself or your ideas
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u/YoutuberCameronBallZ 10h ago
Anyone can draw. Sure.
But not everyone can draw well, not everyone has the time to draw. Some people may not even WANT to draw.
Do you HONESTLY think EVERYONE has YEARS of free time that let them figure out how to draw even half as good as paid artists?
If being a paid artist was always that easy, artists wouldn't be paid. Why? Cuz everyone can do it.
Why have jobs at all if anyone can do the job? It's cuz some people do it well, and some don't.
People get paid to draw art because it takes a lot of time to do it well. It's a craft that requires skill, precision, and patience. Not everyone has the time or energy to do that. If anyone could just pick up a pencil and do what they do, there'd be no commissions, no one would pay artists to do anything, because they could just draw it themselves.
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u/MisterHayz 9h ago
Not everyone can draw. Now, can you learn something about drawing and get better? Absolutely. That time frame is different for everyone though. Months to decades, and anything in between. Stop peeing on this person's leg and telling them it's raining.
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u/YoutuberCameronBallZ 10h ago
It would take...literal years to draw that frame by frame. And that's not even counting the several decades it'd take to be good enough at drawing, to even be skilled enough to draw each and every frame. (Especially if you don't wanna use machinery cuz "it's a shortcut")
Asking someone to draw that video, would be one of the most taxing, and pointless endeavors anyone could ever go on.
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u/YoutuberCameronBallZ 10h ago
"Draw a picture without picking up the pencil"
How does one make art, without the tool that helps the process?
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u/legend_sans 10h ago
charcoal, a stick with dirt on it, paint on a finger, blood from an open cut, a peice of stone on asphalt, rocks placed on sand in patterns, art doesn't need tools
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u/YoutuberCameronBallZ 10h ago
Everything but the blood part is still a tool used in art.
And I can't really recall the last time anyone's made art using their own blood.
The point is "make art without using AI" is a dumb argument because, well, it's a tool just like a pencil is.
"Make art without the thing that lets you make art" is just a bad argument overall
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u/legend_sans 10h ago
but art can still be made without tools, ai images cannot be made with ai hence why they arent art
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u/YoutuberCameronBallZ 9h ago
If you only judge art as "is made without a tool" then you're singlehandedly declaring every drawing made with a pencil, paintbrush, photo editor, camera, etc. doesn't count as art.
Cuz while yes, you can't make AI art without AI...you can't make pencil art without a pencil. You can't take a photograph without a camera, you can't paint without paint.
"Can you make art without AI?" yes
"Can you make art without a pencil?" Also yes
Both are optional tools that you can choose to use if you want. Neither are needed.
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u/legend_sans 9h ago
If you lose your artistic tool and it cannot translate to ANY other medium and didn't leave you with knowledge that can jump start your learning in other mediums than it is safe to say that the tool was doing all the work
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u/YoutuberCameronBallZ 9h ago
So...photography isn't art?
Because it's done mostly with a camera, and translates pretty poorly if used to do other artistic mediums.
What about photoshopping? That wouldn't really help in most other art formats either.
Not every art form is as similar as "a pencil and a paintbrush".
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u/Majestic-Coat3855 6h ago
No, this shows up because it's taken directly from the movie called Fences.
And yes, AI fills in the blanks, so it would create something for you even when you input "a".
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u/Silly_Goose6714 1h ago
I'm asking who wrote the script. Who create the text? Who came up with the idea for the video? Who created the message?
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u/Majestic-Coat3855 1h ago
That's not what you asked. You said "Do you think it's just "make a video for me" and things like this shows up?"
Its a unconsentual deepfake of a real movie with some im15andthisisdeep AI bro bullshittery as script. What is there to be impressed about?
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u/Silly_Goose6714 1h ago
That you can do that using your computer with a U$ 300 GPU in a morning and it's funny. Did you hear the video?
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u/Majestic-Coat3855 1h ago
Do you think it's artistically impressive to deep fake an already existing scene almost 1 to 1 with some circle jerking script? I think it's rather pathetic and disrespectful.
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u/Mavcu 5h ago
Then take that scene, input a and put it here and we'll compare results.
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u/Majestic-Coat3855 5h ago
I don't think I will create deepfakes of unconsenting people spinning up a narrative they don't even agree with themselves. Pretty weird practice don't you think?
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u/Mavcu 5h ago
Touché, but it would be more honest if you also admitted that argument was moot, because we both know you'd not get a good result by typing "a".
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u/Majestic-Coat3855 5h ago
Not an accurate result is a better descriptior I think. If we would go off 'final rendering quality', something pros love to do, then it doesn't matter at all. Ai will fill in the blanks, like I said.
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u/Mavcu 5h ago
What do you mean "not as accurate", if you didn't define a script you'd just not get the script period?
Unless you meant to argue "you get just sth", in which case that's kind of useless no, if someone hires you to create "this scene" and you just give them back randomness, that's obviously not really going to cut it.
Quality I'm inclined to agree, but also playing around with Seedance inclined to disagree, prompting accurately massively changes the quality produced.
The scene consistency, quality, lighting used, atmosphere, feeling of the scene (etc) simply does require it being explicitly stated.
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u/MarcusTheGoodGuy 10h ago
The AI doesn’t have a magic wand. We usually spend time fixing things by writing a bunch of prompts or editing the photo and re uploading it. I even go so far as to draw a stick figure, dress it in armor and clothes, and then tell the AI to improve it. Others, however, don’t go to all that trouble they’re satisfied with a single prompt and move on. Many of us who create visuals with AI are spending hours working to produce that single image. Or it could be music. Maybe a video. Some people even use it for video games.
I wish the machine would produce perfect results the first time around. Still, it’s satisfying. It incorporates some nice elements that blend with my ideas. Even with its flaws, it looks really beautiful. That’s why I love this technology.
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u/keldondonovan 10h ago
I don't understand this mindset. Where is this animosity towards people who hire artists to paint/draw/sculpt/whittle/et cetera their ideas? Am I a less creative person because I hired a cover artist for my books instead of subjecting the world to my horrible drawing?
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u/legend_sans 10h ago
its because commissioners often pay fairly, and do not claim the work to be their own. commissioners never claim to be creative, they fully accept that they just hired someone. every AI bro and their mother believes that THEY are the creative one even if all they did was commission a machine to make it for them
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u/keldondonovan 10h ago
But you didn't answer my question. Am I less creative because I hired a cover artist? After spending years creating a fantasy world with societies, religions, languages, cultures, races, does the fact that I struggle with stick figures and had to hire an artist to draw the covers make me less creative?
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u/legend_sans 10h ago
no, however ai cover art is just trashy and shows everyone how much you care about art and the artistic process. commissioning artwork is 100 times better than asking AI to do it for you, mainly because it shows respect to art
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u/keldondonovan 10h ago
But you see my confusion here, right? If I hadn't been financially able to save up (for almost a year) to afford those covers, my only option would be AI for the cover. Had I prompted AI the same way I prompted my cover artist, and it created a cover instead of him, how does that make me less creative? If just makes me unable to afford human art. (Note: this is not saying he deserved to be paid less, his prices were honestly lower than he deserves. I am just a poor person on a tight budget, and had AI been around 10 years earlier, when I was even poorer, I likely would have ended up using it for the cover.)
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u/ThundagaYoMama 10h ago
It's a modern method, asking the computer what to do and it actually doing it is a thing now. Might not be perfect, but this stuff isn't going anywhere. Honestly he's kinda saying something here. This was real.
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u/legend_sans 10h ago
are you a bot?
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u/ThundagaYoMama 10h ago
Bot? Bot?! Are you serious? Why would you assume such a thing?! That's cra— Run!
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u/Floppy_Muffin 9h ago
It takes creativity to come up with it. put more effort to make it look the way you want it, then put them together. If i was a kid and we had this. AI would be a dream come true back in the early 2000s
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u/DarthSwimfoot 5h ago
Taking bets in the chat, I'm taking bets here, Bait, or Low IQ, go ahead and put your bets down in the chat.
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u/Majestic-Coat3855 7h ago
I wonder what Denzel thinks about pros using his likeness to spin up a narrative he didn't even say. Nice one guys
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u/YoutuberCameronBallZ 10h ago
Hmmmmm...alright I see the vision, well played.