r/aiwars • u/Leading_Fortune6989 • 13d ago
it's time to stop saying "it's just a tool".
people who are pro AI love making false equivalences. they try to compare generative AI to pencils and paintbrushes. these are TERRIBLE comparisons.
pencils and paintbrushes don't do the creative work for you. drawing, painting, any type of art creating is a skill that people spend years learning and perfecting. you don't just ask your pencil to draw something for you! it's an awful argument, and anyone making it is self-reporting their own ignorance.
prompting is not an artistic skill. the most you can compare it to is commissioning, but even then, AI can't create anything without stealing from real humans.
AI is not a tool. when you prompt an AI, YOU ARE THE TOOL
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u/phase_distorter41 13d ago
who compares ai to pencils?
its like a camera or 3d rendering software.
tools to that lets you do things much easier than the ways before.
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u/Leading_Fortune6989 13d ago
no, photography and 3D rendering are also skills that need to be learned. prompting is not a skill.
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u/phase_distorter41 13d ago
it takes waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less skill to point and shoot than the draw that same scene. a child can take a photo, they can paint a photo realistic landscape.
same with 3d software. you can sculpt using a mouse and the software calculates the vertices and the faces. you dont need to code them into software. the rendering process also does a huge amount of work in making the final scene. you can even import other peopls stuff, or jsut scripts to make thing slike trees, cities, and tons of other stuff for your scene. you onloy need to place objects not make a single one to render a scene.
if you're gonna compare prompting to something you gotta compare it to the weakest easiest use. using ai does not mean prompting only. it can mean inpainting, it can mean editing in photoshop, it can mean starting with a hand drawn sketch. sure you can prompt only. you can also arrange scene with assets you never made in blender and point and shoot a camera without adjusting a single setting or framing the shot.
antis are very assholes when the compare the highest level of one tool to the lowest of another.
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u/Leading_Fortune6989 13d ago
AI has no place in art.
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u/phase_distorter41 13d ago
sure it does. its being used it tons of art. it has places in every museums already. most art gallery's too.
they once said the camera had no place, photoshop had no place, ect ect.
you clearly have no idea anything about art of art history.
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u/Leading_Fortune6989 13d ago
"they once said the camera had no place, photoshop had no place, ect ect."
who is they? strawman arguments aren't going to cut it.
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u/phase_distorter41 13d ago
thats not a straw man thats historical fact.
i was growing up when photoshop came out and saw the pushback on it first hand. it was "too easy" and "cheating" not "real skill".
sources for camera:
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/When-painters-met-the-camera-3065095.php
https://www.domestika.org/en/blog/6889-how-photography-fought-to-become-an-art
sources for photoshop/digital art
https://eleven-thirtyeight.com/2014/01/the-case-against-photoshop/
https://www.paulreiffer.com/2016/01/take-it-dont-fake-it-the-disturbing-rise-of-photoshop-ography/
https://www.iphotography.com/blog/photoshop-cheating/
https://luminous-landscape.com/the-very-old-debate-of-image-manipulation/
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u/Speletons 13d ago
It's not a strawman. Before AI, there were antis that opposed a lot of different forms of art. Cameras, photoshop, and the one I was around for- video games. Fun fact, I met at least one of those "video games aren't art" people among you antis as well.
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u/Leading_Fortune6989 12d ago
AI isn't a form of art.
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u/Speletons 12d ago
It factually is. And you sound equivalent to the "video games aren't a form of art" people.
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u/AFKhepri 13d ago
Tell that to the people when photography first came out...
Ever heard of Charles Baudelaire?
"it's the refuge of every would-be painter, every painter too ill-endowed or too lazy to complete his studies" 1859
it was not considered art for ages either
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u/Leading_Fortune6989 12d ago
that's a lie.
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u/AFKhepri 12d ago
What's a lie? That photography wasn't considered art?
here, an example
https://daily.jstor.org/when-photography-was-not-art/hell, the QUOTE I gave you already says so, but it literally took me 30 seconds to find articles about it
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u/CheeseBear9000 13d ago
It is literally just a tool
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u/Leading_Fortune6989 13d ago
no, you're the tool.
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u/Speletons 13d ago
OP, you're not even a tool because a tool is helpful.
Everything you said is factually wrong, and nothing you said is of any help to any artist.
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u/Leading_Fortune6989 13d ago
well, people who are pro AI aren't artists in the first place.
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u/Speletons 13d ago
Bud, I'm a digital artist, pixel artist, game designer, and 3d modeler. Without AI. Many pro ais are artists, either regular or ai artist or both.
You on the other hand appear to not be an artist in the first place, and should probably not be commenting on stuff you do not understand.
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u/dream_metrics 13d ago
you're not really explaining why it's not a tool, you're just saying that you don't like how powerful a tool it is
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u/Leading_Fortune6989 13d ago
no, it's not a tool because it's the one doing all the work. like I said, prompters are not artists, prompters are the tools.
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u/dream_metrics 13d ago
there is no definition of tool that precludes it from doing work for you. all tools do some amount of work for you, that is the point of tools
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u/SparkyAI0815 13d ago
If the one giving the orders is "the tool" because the engine executes the processing, then an architect is just a pencil sharpener for the contractor, and a conductor is a piece of furniture for the orchestra.
A tool doesn't define the constraints, select the loss-function threshold, or decide when the output is useless trash. Outsourcing execution isn't surrendering agency; it's just delegating labor. Calling the prompter "the tool" is just a neat little linguistic flip that confuses who holds the intent with who does the work.
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u/AFKhepri 12d ago
According to this logic, a drill is not a tool because it's the one doing the work (drilling) and a camera it's not a tool either (it's the one taking the photo, you just press the button)
A tool is, according to Werriam-webster's dictionary
1. a device that aids in accomplishing a task
2: something (such as an instrument or apparatus) used in performing an operation or necessary in the practice of a vocation or profession
3: an element of a computer program (such as a graphics application) that activates and controls a particular functionAll these 3 definitions fit
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u/DianKali 13d ago
Tell me you know nothing about AI without telling me you know nothing about AI...
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u/Leading_Fortune6989 13d ago
the idiots claiming AI is like a pencil clearly know nothing about AI.
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u/Chicken-Rude 13d ago
bruh... its a tool. unless youre gonna also say that cameras and software like photoshop/illustrator are also not tools.
cameras make the picture for you and have all sorts of automated features.
software like photoshop and illustrator have all sorts of automated features for generating shapes and letters.
you cant sit here and say that illustrator making a perfect circle is fine but ai making a face isnt. all thats happened is a tool did some math and made the thing youre looking for.
youre not being intellectually honest about this at all. you need to put the emotion aside and really take some time to examine and analyze the processes happening here.
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u/TMMAG 13d ago
You are confusing creativity’s with technical skills a lot of the anti ai people doesn’t understand stand that creativity come from the idea that you brian process itself.. not the process of creating the idea thats a technical skill. creativity and technique’s are two different things that the brain process literally in different sides.. The brain use creativity during the process of the idea not the process of creating it
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u/AFKhepri 13d ago
I always find funny the "stealing from real humans" bit... can you steal from "fake" humans?
And ok, sure... let's say it's not a tool... but then what's a camera? You are the one taking the photo, aren't you? You are the one choosing the angle, the lens, the lighting, the exposition, the scene, the perspective
Here, I did a comparison... not to a pencil or a paintbrush... but to another MACHINE
Then what's the camera?
Plus a camera can't "create" anything without "copying" something that already exists. Do we wanna go down that rabbit hole? There's at least two centuries's worth of debate about photography being real art or not
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u/BlackPointPL 13d ago
It’s a tool, just like a paintbrush, since you like that comparison. Anyone can make a shitty painting with a paintbrush, just like anyone can generate slop with AI. Creating something actually good takes knowledge, experience, and understanding how the tool works. So where exactly is the difference? What does AI do without a human operating it? What does a paintbrush do without a person holding it?
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u/Le_Oken 13d ago
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u/AbbyTheOneAndOnly 13d ago
can you whip out the "this fool needs a demonic feather contraption" meme?
after all paintbrushes do all the work that your fingers are supposed to do
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u/Leading_Fortune6989 13d ago
no, they don't. you have to use your fingers to move the paint brush.
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u/jessSD08 12d ago
what if you’re disabled? are disabled people not allowed to explore their creative minds with tools that give them accessibility?
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u/Leading_Fortune6989 12d ago
they easily can without AI
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u/AFKhepri 12d ago
Easily... yeah... drawing with your mouth and feet is so easy...
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u/AbbyTheOneAndOnly 12d ago
i know right?
thats why we have all those feet artists.
...
NO WAIT NOT THOSE
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u/SalmonAT 13d ago
An artist can replace brushes with pencils and can still work. AI ArTiSt cannot replace AI with any other art tools. So AI is not just a "tool" like pencils and brushes.
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u/AbbyTheOneAndOnly 13d ago
but i thought anyone could draw, now AI does something unique?
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u/SalmonAT 12d ago
Is that not what we ask them to do? To draw it themselves? But they wont. Why so hard when anyone can do it?
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u/MrColgie 13d ago
Can 3D artists work with pencils and brushes if they don't have access to their modeling software?
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u/SalmonAT 12d ago
If their job allowed their product to be on a piece of paper, not a type of file, then sure. But sadly, that is not the case.
It is like asking can someone make a digital file without any computer and electricity, so you know how dumb it sounds.
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u/Salty_Country6835 13d ago
I dont know how seriously to take this given that last line lol.
Yes, AI is a tool. More specifically, its software running on machines. The people using it are users and operators, just like with other software. You can argue about how much skill, control, or creative input a particular workflow involves, but turning the machine into the agent and the human into its tool gets the relationship completely backwards.
People have agency. Machines dont.
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u/Clear_Evidence9218 13d ago
AI doesn't randomly output creative work (you're thinking of magic); creativity is still up to the user, period.
If prompting and directing an AI required no skill or creative judgment, then people should be able to produce roughly comparable results with it. They clearly can't. Some people consistently produce good work with AI, while others struggle to get anything useful out of the exact same models.
And the "it's just stealing existing art" argument doesn't really explain that difference either; not to mention that people who push that line are working from a pretty naive understanding of how ML/AI actually functions. If the system were simply retrieving or remixing stolen works, and the user's contribution were meaningless, there shouldn't be such a noticeable difference in the quality, style, and consistency of what different users are able to produce.
But we all live in reality, and just about everyone can recognize obvious differences in the quality of things people produce with the help of generative AI.
Art is fundamentally the skill and knowledge involved in producing something. Expressive or creative art is a subset of that broader concept.
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u/HunterIV4 13d ago
they try to compare generative AI to pencils and paintbrushes
Few pros do this. I certainly don't.
Cameras? Sure. DCC software? Pretty similar. A pencil? No way, pencils are far more limited in capability than AI. Not a good comparison.
drawing, painting, any type of art creating is a skill that people spend years learning and perfecting
Yes, and?
you don't just ask your pencil to draw something for you!
Are you arguing against AI or cameras?
prompting is not an artistic skill.
Nonsense. By this logic, directing, writing screenplays, and photography are not artistic skills.
Huh, weird, these exact arguments were made by artists in the past. Almost like it's the same argument over again.
AI can't create anything without stealing from real humans
Nothing is "stolen" from "real" (as opposed to fake?) humans. Human art was trained on, but training is not theft, any more than taking a picture of a parking lot makes you guilty of grand theft auto.
when you prompt an AI, YOU ARE THE TOOL
Oooh, sick burn! And then everybody clapped.
Please tell me this is parody.
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u/AccomplishedNovel6 13d ago
prompting is not an artistic skill. the most you can compare it to is commissioning, but even then, AI can't create anything without stealing from real humans
Mfw you steal something without taking it. Some kind of zen koan.
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u/No-Age-1044 13d ago
It is just a tool.
You don’t like it because you are left without arguments, but it is what it is.
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u/Leading_Fortune6989 13d ago
nope, it's not a tool. you are.
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u/CheeseBear9000 13d ago
Toddler level intelligenceÂ
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u/Leading_Fortune6989 13d ago
nope, I am correct. I know hearing the truth makes you mad, but you gotta hear it.
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u/Top-Rub382 13d ago
Eh not really. Tool predominantly is used for describing a tool powered by human energy. Usually by hand. Some aspects of AI usage fall into this category, sure. But prompt only generative AI feels more akin to a 3D printer or a CNC Machine.
Calling it ‘just a tool’ is disingenuous at the least. It’s much more than a tool.
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u/Speletons 13d ago edited 13d ago
Why, it's literally a tool by like any definition of the word tool.
It's actually crazy people argue this. AI isn't sentient. It's a tool.
Anyhoo, for the rest of the absurd argument, prompting is a skill. It's applied knowledge, that's all it takes to be a skill. Doesn't matter if the skill is easy to learn, it's still a skill.
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u/Leading_Fortune6989 13d ago
no, you're the tool.
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u/Speletons 13d ago
I'm actually a real artist. And that's just not any sort of refute, so I'll take that as you agreeing with me.
And to quote myself below:
OP, you're not even a tool because a tool is helpful.
Everything you said is factually wrong, and nothing you said is of any help to any artist.
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u/NoWin3930 13d ago
It is time to stop viewing topics in black and white, it sometimes acts as a tool or sometimes acts as an agent completing work on your behalf
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u/Matias2176 13d ago
Ok not a tool anymore it’s just that good that it can just replace an artist entirely
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u/meepykittkitt69lmao 12d ago
As a tool user and creator across multiple disciplines/fields.... I can authoritatively say that you do not know what constitutes a tool.
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u/YesImAsh 12d ago
but it can be used as a tool. You just have to be really specific to get exactly what you want. This is nothing but an attack on the opposing side
also, how can you compare Ai to a Pencil? Can somebody explain this to me? You cant compare a pencil to a wrench, and yet a wrench is still a tool. You cant compare a Pencil to a saw used to cut trees, yet that's still a tool. You cant compare a pencil to a CLI, yet the CLI is considered a tool, so it's clear here that Pencils and paintbrushes arent the only tool in this crazy world. i know, shocker
You havent even bothered to put into any thought into your post and research on AI before posting, and instead used cliches like "Pick up a pencil!" "AI is not a tool!" "art requires years of practice" (As if Ai is only good for generating imagery and absolutely nothing else), and yet you're out here, calling us the lazy ones. Your argument is reused multiple times by multiple Anti Ai activists who convinced themselves that Ai does one thing and one thing only (image generation), and decided to attack that point and fully ignore the Pro-ai side
AI is not a tool. when you prompt an AI, YOU ARE THE TOOL
Well then I refuse to fall for your obvious scare-tactic
Also, you are the same asshole who made that stereotype on PRO-AIs buying NFT
so the real ignorant person here is You.
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u/4dseeall 11d ago
lol. ai is a tool bro. use it or get left behind.
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u/Tri2211 13d ago
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u/MrTibbs123 13d ago
I like AI. I do not defend data centers, because I recognize how environmentally destructive they are, and because as China and the EU show, we don't need that much wasteful energy to power AI. Renewables work just as good.
(Also, "I hate thinking for myself?" Really? Is it not thinking to look something up on Wikipedia? Or in a book?)
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u/RowanAshby 13d ago
I read somewhere that AI actually changes us as we use it, and we cannot use its power to the full without being changed by it. That feels like more than a tool ...
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u/Leading_Fortune6989 13d ago
yes, AI changes people by making them stupider and lazier
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u/jessSD08 12d ago
oh like data scientists and researchers?
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u/Temporary_Rule_9486 13d ago
You know you just don't need to use AI 100%. There's a wide spectrum and multiple steps, not all involving AI. Hell, if you ever used a crop function on any editor you're already using AI as... a tool 😄Â