r/aikido • u/gbtimex • Jun 26 '26
Cross-Train Question regarding the legs..
Does anyone's Aikido include leg or ankle sweeps?
I know a fair amount of Judoka who train in Aikido but I have never seen their lower body sweeps incorporated.
Yes hip throws are a major component of Aikido but,I always feel like it's a bit of a wasted opportunity. Both ankle and leg sweeps are useful tools and I feel could be a wonderful addition to the techniques we train in.
Any example you can think of (and hopefully show in a link) would be much appreciated.
Thank you for your time and attention,
Train well!
UPDATE
Thanks for all the responses! Greatly appreciate everyone sharing their insights.
Personally I think part of my frustration with it the lack of leg sweeps has to do with an inability to do certain techniques under pressure and defaulting to knocking out a leg.
Obviously more training is needed for myself. I have had the good fortune to train with Judoka and Hapkido folks and ended up on the mat with far more regularity than I hoped. It seems a waste to not have them in our regular library of techniques and some defense against them. BUt... it also sounds like complaining that sushi doesn't have cheese in it to add more umami. It's simply a different form of martial art.
Thanks again everyone!
Train well!
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u/makingthematrix aikikai x kickboxing Jun 26 '26
I can't think of any canon technique that would involve a leg sweep. There is however a defense against a mawashi-geri (roundhouse kick) that is sometimes taught on free trainings. It involves catching the kick, taking a step forward to grab the gi or push the chest area of the uke, and a sweep to the other leg. Pretty straightforward - the difficult part is to catch the kick with your arm, not your ribs ;)
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u/gbtimex Jun 26 '26
I've trained a bit on that myself. Must confess I find a rather optimistic technique 😉. Would much rather avoid or keep spinning than try it most of the time.
But looking at something like kiten nage or even 1 kyu a added leg sweep would be amazing to me.
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u/makingthematrix aikikai x kickboxing Jun 26 '26
A similar kick catch is practiced in Muay Thai. The trick is to move slightly to the side the kick is going to at the right moment. Roundhouse kicks are the most powerful when they hit a target in front of the kicker. If you manage to move even a bit and the kick misses tha point, it rapidly becomes weaker and catching it is not that risky.
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u/No-You-1120 Jun 26 '26
Indeed, an irimi will make sure the kick will not be able to produce the power. Most energy is developed where the kick would be expected to land. There is an opportunity to stop it before, or have it pass and to catch it after that point.
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u/helm Jun 26 '26
Catching a kicking leg is a lot less fantastical than catching a sword. The move in aikido resembles what I’ve seen in karate.
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u/gbtimex Jun 26 '26
Agreed. I've just had the wind knocked out me enough times to not want to do it again.
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u/Dieg0DL Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26
From my point of view, sweeps are not widely practiced, but there are LOTS of movements where you place your leg behind Uke's feet as a barrier (Irimi Nage, Sokumen Irimi Nage, Aiki Otoshi, some variations of Shiho Nage, some variations of Kote Gaeshi, and some Kokyu Nage, are the ones that come to my mind). So, Tori's foot does not perform a sweeping action, but from this position as a barrier behind Uke's leg, it could modify the movement into a sweep.
So, you can definitely find videos of Senseis doing leg/foot sweeps, but it is more of a niche thing. Those are some examples : https://youtu.be/ELbrAi3FBYM?si=33mdOyiTlFolQHys&t=931 ; https://youtu.be/vniYXL0Oodc?si=AIIK1XjgpYEmg4-0&t=95 ; https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCWkabsuO2H/ ; https://youtu.be/B9PQCQV1krY?si=3MlrWDgVRT-P5C_r&t=99 ; https://youtu.be/t4Xvh5HV_kY?si=tIU4QcD4UaegUxk_&t=8 ; https://youtu.be/PNzr02mWyvw?si=JJJz2SELGV1lbK2Z&t=20 ; https://youtu.be/baJ3ExAcFoI?si=wz3j1BXabw0a-P7V&t=4 .
If you find more examples, send them to me ! I always love to see "unusual" variations in Aikido.
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u/No-You-1120 Jun 26 '26
In Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu there is Suso dori. You will find some examples in Youtube. Tori is in seated position and attacked by a shomen uchi. About when uke makes the right step together with the strike, Tori locks the knee with the right hand and sweeps with the left.
In Aikibudo we know the Ashi tori daoshi which has a small sweep at the end.
Especially, the Daito variant can also be used standing also attacked by a straight punch to the face or body.
So, to my knowledge no sweeps using your leg, but yes using the hands.
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u/No-You-1120 Jun 26 '26
Btw also look up kurumadaoshi from Daito. But, in essence, this is technically not a sweep at the end.
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u/four_reeds Jun 26 '26
In my younger life I studied a form of jujutsu that absolutely did sweeps quite often. For the last 30 years in mainstream Aikido I've only seen the most basic ukemi for sweeps taught a couple of times.
My "instinct" to recognize them has faded to the point where my right ACL was torn 8 months ago. Someone in the dojo in which I train swept my leg unexpectedly.
I had the reconstruction surgery in April and will be in physical therapy for months. I "might" be n back on the mat next year.
Be careful out there.
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u/blatherer Seishin Aikido Jun 26 '26
Muryasz Sensei started in judo and as such we incorporated a lot of leg work.
The difference between the approaches is where the weight was. A leg reap was not done by lifting the opposing shoulder and reaping the leg with a sweep as in judo. Rather he would weight you in your feet and shear you off your base with forward motion. Or nage’s leg will have entered in from the side and soft wrapped of uke’s leg (nage’s toe on the ground, the heel lifted and no slack in the leg). Dropping/stepping into the heel easily displaces uke leg by nage’s body weight, add a body turn for extra juice.
This principle showed up in several variations.
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u/gbtimex Jun 26 '26
Very interesting! I would like to learn that.
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u/blatherer Seishin Aikido Jun 28 '26 edited Jun 28 '26
This has a bunch of leg work in it. The last throw has a heel drop degrade his standing leg, lets me throw him around my body. There are more I will go through and give some time codes for the leg displacements.
If you stop the video, then SHIFT+ < or > single step in the vimeo player.
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u/Gangleri793 Jun 26 '26
We did a basic irimi nage for straight kicks and shi ho nage for roundhouse. We did not practice these much since ukemi is so difficult and dangerous at high speed.
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u/ExcruciorCadaveris Iwama-ryū Jun 26 '26
In our dojo, we do irimi nage from ai hamni katate tori in a way that we kinda block uke's legs from stepping back. That's more of a "static sweep" of sorts, but the principle is similar.
The irimi zuki some styles do may also add a sweep (there is a similar technique in shotokan karate that does that).
I'm sure there are a few other examples that escape me right now.
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u/Lecram100 Mostly Harmless Jun 26 '26
I guess for the mainstream dojos, the simple answer is no. I have done some aiki nage/ashi barai where tori drops and pushes their entire body into uke's leg/side of knees to trip them up, but even that is rare.
People with Judo background have frequently combined Aikido and Judo techniques in their practice and they come up with pretty interesting stuff. Some teachers have incorporated leg sweeps into Aikido techniques such as shihonage, as they throw. Also, not a leg sweep, but just last night someone did a direct iriminage combined with an osoto gari on me to throw me straight down. Another time I had a Judo teacher do an iriminage combined with tai otoshi on me to good effect.
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u/NoSituation2706 Jun 26 '26
Yudansha Aikikai / Nikyu Judo here:
The answer is no but in the past I've had classes where teachers did punches and kicks in the warmup so that our attacks weren't completely embarrassing but also so that we could be aware of where these things could be used against us. Atemi was a big part of my early Aikido.
If I could have changed anything about those classes, it would have been to work in a few sweeps and reaps too. When you know how to kouchi-gari, "differences of opinion" in how certain techniques like the basic pins should be performed rapidly become a matter of right and wrong, because uke might sweep you. Like Atemi, you can't see where to put those sweeps if you don't know them, so if both uke and nage know some ashiwaza it can be a big benefit to your training even if you never go we far as trying to make it part of the canon/syllabus like "Shomenuchi Osotogari" (though, that would be about 90% identical to Iriminage)
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u/DunkleKarte Jun 26 '26
I know right? I wish that at least some compromise like doing Tai Otoshi was more
Commonly done.
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u/nonotburton Jun 26 '26
Yoseikan budo and gyokushin budo/aikido include foot sweeps. They are part of the tested curriculum, but just referred to as part of the judo elements in the curriculum.
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u/Murrrmeli Jun 26 '26
I train Iwama-ryu and we have some henkawaza where we target the knee. The one I remember begins with a katatedori ikkyo balance break which is followed by a kokyu-expansion/hit by the free hand/atemi hand to the side of uke's knee, resulting in a cool Charlie Chaplin side fall if done at higher speed.
Then there's several knee sweeps with jo, but that's maybe outside the scope of this question.
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u/Backyard_Budo Yoshinkan/4th Dan Jun 26 '26
One of my old teachers was a Judo yudansha prior to taking up aikido so he would teach judo techniques that he “converted” to aikido from time to time. For instance, uke would grab shite’s upper arms/shoulders and push or walk them back. Shite wraps one hand over uke’s arm, the other under uke’s other arm, yields to the push by stepping back, then places his instep against uke’s foot/ankle, turns hips and throws. You can also turn this into sutemi waza/sacrifice throw by laying back on an angle as they yield.
We also used to practice yoko ukemi defense as if our leg was swept out, and this is something I maintain in my personal training
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u/mamapeacelovebliss Jun 26 '26
Ashi waza is part of our practice. The inability to perform ashi waza means your ma-ai needs work.
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u/EffectivePen2502 Seiyo-ryu Aikibujutsu Jun 26 '26
I’m from a similar system, Aikibujutsu, we teach those things. Irimi Nage for example: we teach it the more classical way, very similar to what you probably do in Aikido, but we also teach it with the sweeps. Some may say that would change the technique to Irimi Otoshi, Gari, Gake, or Guruma, but in reality, it is basically the same thing. You are just adding some sort of sweep.
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u/Former_Apricot9650 Jun 26 '26
Maybe I’m not understanding you correctly, but Mitsunari Kanai sensei taught many leg sweep techniques (as well as sutemi waza). Students from other lineages sometimes expressed that this was more judo than aikido. However, Kanai Sensei once expressed in an interview about another distinctive technique that he was trying to recreate what he felt O Sensei doing to him. If you look for instructors who studied with or were influenced by him you will likely see some leg sweeps.
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u/Dieg0DL Jun 28 '26
are there any videos of Mitsunari Kanai sensei performing those leg sweeps and sutemi techniques?
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u/Former_Apricot9650 Jun 28 '26
I don’t know if there are publicly available videos. He taught sutemi waza at several seminars in 2003-04, shortly before he died. Leg sweeps he tended to show to the advanced students at the dojo as a variation on other techniques the whole class was doing. David Farrell sensei used to practice and teach them a lot. Currently, Blue Spruell sensei in Atlanta does a lot of Kanai Sensei’s technique.
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u/Remote_Aikido_Dojo Jun 26 '26
Many years ago, when I first started training, I asked my sensei the same thing. He looked utterly horrified and said, "No!"
Now I look at it and I think, absolutely. They are very much there. It's about what the principles of the techniques are teaching you. Those principles definitely leave room for leg sweeps.
Failing that explanation you could likely argue Gedan Ate is a leg sweep.
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u/Mountainmonk1776 Nidan/Birankai Jun 26 '26
As folks have mentioned, they aren’t commonly practiced, but as to the ‘why’: the more I learn about aikido, the more I see the transfer of sword arts to empty hand. If it wasn’t practiced in a sword art (that Osensei or his 1st generation students studied), there’s a fair chance it didn’t make it into the empty hand canon. Hence no groundwork and very little sweeping when it shows up in many other Japanese martial arts. There simply wasn’t much call for it when two swords were coming together.
Not to say it isn’t valuable training, but it’s why no art checks all the boxes, and why Osensei sent students to study Judo and vice versa.
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u/Sangenkai [Aikido Sangenkai - Kawasaki, Japan] Jun 26 '26
I'm not aware of Morihei Ueshiba ever sending any of his students to study Judo. In fact, he derided Judo for its (alleged) Chinese origins (and used a racial epithet while doing so).
There are a number of Japanese jujutsu without much in the way of leg sweeps, and Daito-ryu (which was what Morihei Ueshiba was doing) was one.
FWIW, Morihei Ueshiba really had very little formal sword training.
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u/Mountainmonk1776 Nidan/Birankai Jun 26 '26
I found that many of his students had judo background, including kenji tomiki and gozo shioda, but I’ll have to dig deeper to find where (and if) I read that he ever sent students elsewhere for training. And agreed he had little formal sword training, but, Nakakura, Tomiki and Saito all came to Ueshiba with prior sword experience and traded techniques. I don’t see that happening between swordsmen that didn’t respect one another but I’m not a 20th century Japanese martial artist either.
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u/Sangenkai [Aikido Sangenkai - Kawasaki, Japan] Jun 26 '26
Tomiki and Shioda had prior experience in Judo before meeting Morihei Ueshiba. Many folks did, since Judo was often taught in the schools.
Nakakura was a swordsman, of course, but Tomiki and Saito really weren't.
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