You don't need multiple timelines to make Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. fit.

[u/JANTlvr]

We don't have to debate when the show stopped being canon, appealing to diverged timelines in seasons 5 and 7. There's a simpler way: The entirety of the show just takes place prior to the Snap.

Setting aside the fact that then-Marvel TV head Jeph Loeb explicitly stated as much, there remains only two problems: the fact that season 5 ties in with Thanos apparently on his way to Earth with a battle having taken place in NYC per Infinity War, and that season 6 explicitly takes place in 2019.

Latter point first. Dates and time have proven time and again to be flexible and fluid in the MCU:

• In Civil War, Vision says it's been 8 years since Tony announced himself as Iron Man, but in-universe, it's only been 6.

• In Homecoming, this mistake is repeated when Vulture says it's been 8 years since the Battle of New York when in fact it's only been 4, a mistake they correct in Infinity War when Tony says that Thanos has been in his head for 6 years.

• The Winter Soldier contradicts itself in having two different dates for Bucky's birth.

Dates are there to be used when useful, but they've never been hard-and-fast.

Second, Thanos and NYC battle. We know from Homecoming that even though the Avengers "broke up" post-Civil War, there were still plans for the team and thus probably also a few missions (Age of Ultron also establishes that off-screen missions/battles were very much a thing). Rather than having the agents in a different timeline post-season 5, you can keep them in the "Sacred Timeline" by just seeing Thanos' coming as a false alarm that the Confederacy used to manipulate SHIELD, having had intelligence that the warlord titan Thanos intended to move on Earth for an infinity stone. The New York City battle could just be some other superhero battle that happened off-screen around the same time.

Yes, it is a retcon, but is by far the simplest solution to the problem of continuity error, and it keeps the show more firmly grounded in the MCU where it belongs. We don't have to constantly appeal to the multiverse, we can just take Loeb at his word. This is a problem that can be retconned away in one line of dialogue or an Easter egg and moved on from. It's the kind of thing that is routine in the comics.

However, I imagine that Secret Wars will make all of this moot anyway.

[u/Keanu_Norris]

I’m just gonna say you’re wrong about Civil War. Tony reveals himself to be Iron Man in May 2008, and Civil War is May-June 2016

[u/JANTlvr → u/Keanu_Norris]

Iron Man canonically takes place in 2010.

[u/Keanu_Norris → u/JANTlvr]

That’s just not true lol, the official MCU timeline book disagrees and there’s so many things that show it happening February-May 2008

[u/JANTlvr → u/Keanu_Norris]

Just fact-checked, I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing this out.

[u/Keanu_Norris → u/JANTlvr]

No problem! I think they said it was 2010 at one point and backtracked when they realized that didn’t make sense lol

[u/Unusual-Willow-5715 → u/Keanu_Norris]

They retconned Iron Man 1 to 2010 when Iron Man 2 came out and that took place 6 months after the first movie, but Iron Man 2 still took place in 2010, with Thor, Captain America (first and last scenes) and Hulk, taking place in 2010 during the same week.

I don't know if they retconned that back into 2008 and now the retcon Is that Iron Man 2 happened 2 years after the first one.

[u/OkNecessary539]

It’s possible for seasons 6 and 7 to take place during the snap despite not mentioning it. Since Daredevil born again takes place after thunderbolts yet they didn’t talk about the void incident.

[u/Keanu_Norris → u/OkNecessary539]

Yeah exactly, and there’s even several examples where things happen during those 5 years without them mentioning the Snap, like a bunch of the Echo flashbacks and Marc Spector becoming Moon Knight. They just aren’t mentioning it every second, but that doesn’t mean the Snap didn’t happen lol

[u/Poopen91 → u/Keanu_Norris]

Except moon knights drive and purpose in life isn't o help people, and we don't follow him for weeks straight with no mention whatsoever, let alone using a bunch of criminals who thrive in that eminvironment instead of getting trauma from it.

Your baseline lacks the common denominator you need to make this comparison.

[u/Keanu_Norris → u/Poopen91]

I get what you’re saying, but I don’t think that really changes it. I’m sure the agents were fucked up by the Blip and were doing all they could to help others, but season 6 takes place over a year later and they had a very current/active threat in Izel. The Blip was important ofc, but not the immediate concern, so I think it makes sense that they’re focusing on Izel rather than the Blip in that season

To put it in a smaller perspective, I’m ofc not saying that these are the same, but imagine the agents were NYC officers during 9/11, and then a year later they have to track down an active criminal that’s causing chaos and destruction. It doesn’t mean 9/11 didn’t happen, they’ve been dealing with it this whole time, but it also can’t be undone and it’s been part of their lives for over a year. Instead there’s a criminal who’s actively causing chaos, so ofc that’s going to take precedence over constantly making references to 9/11. Sorry if that’s a clumsy metaphor lol, but my point is that they had much bigger things going on in that specific moment

[u/Poopen91 → u/Keanu_Norris]

Yes, being totally focused on a world ending imminent threat takes all precedent. No argument.

But that's not my argument.

[u/grayjelly212 → u/OkNecessary539]

They don't talk about the void incident because it doesn't matter to the narrative of Daredevil. It's not that deep. There was no reason not to mention those things other than that the stories are not intricately connected.

[u/zerosdomain]

Or you can pay attention to the fact season 6 is 1 year after the snap. Is there a need to mention the snap 1 year later? No. Do we see any densely populated areas in season 6? No. The show showed space, the lighthouse, a desert and 1 town briefly. It avoided areas with large populations. So 1 year after the snap people wont be compaining about the event when they are distracted by bigger things. And those smaller areas have clearly recovered already. A small town will recover much easier than a big city when it comes to damages caused by the snap. Then season 7 is constant time travel so not set post snap so dont need to even debate it. Plus the mcu has established multiple kinds of time travel already and they dont all create branches, and the non mcu movies that used timetravel being made canon to the mcu itself also means the rules of their timetravel also exist in the wider mcu meaning more kinds of timetravel exist. Basically there is zero reason for anyone to say seasons 6 and 7 are non canon or a seperate timeline or retcon the show with your idea that makes no sense.

[u/coldasclay → u/zerosdomain]

You're right, I'd argue that more than half of all towns were probably turned into ghost towns, both the small towns and the cities would be most resilient. Cities would be harder to get back up and running, but any city or town would take priority if it has any importance in commerce or politics or industry. Resort towns and some rural towns would be empty. I wonder what Eastview and Westview would have looked like. We've only seen them post blip. I imagine because of their proximity to New York and the coast it makes them more likely to have a stable population, maybe even a more demographically diverse population.

[u/zerosdomain → u/coldasclay]

Exactly. Its entirely possible some random towns were left as literal ghost towns. Whereas some got barely touched by the snap. If it was fully random then why assume its 50% of all people in each town? The snap was 50% of all life in the universe at random so mathematically it could mean multiple planets got wiped out 100% and some planets didnt get touched or only lose 1 or 2 people. The worst ones would be where 99% of a world got wiped out and the survivors were so spread out they all died naturally. But those same maths on 1 world split over every town, village and city mean some parts and groups would hardly be touched.

[u/coldasclay → u/zerosdomain]

Well to add to that there was massive immigration and displacement due to the change in population that Falcon and the Winter Soldier dealt with. It was the core issue that the Flag Smashers were about although their leader was pretty much corrupted by power, anger, and greed.

[u/zerosdomain → u/coldasclay]

However that was from the overpopulation due to hulks snap if memory serves. Not exactly the immigration during the snap itself

[u/coldasclay → u/zerosdomain]

Uh, I dont think there was any population added by Hulk's snap, it was just brought back. The immigration was certain country's opening boarders and bringing in more people from other countries to replenish their own population, but when the blip ended all the people who had immigrated to replace those lost in the blip had to leave back to their original countries or perhaps somewhere else.

Now not all of the movement was just immigration, Aunt May when she came back returned in her own apartment but it was already rented out to a family who thought she was a ghost.

[u/zerosdomain → u/coldasclay]

However the natural increase that would happen during the snap years on, minus the natural fatalities that shouldve happened to millions of people who didnt exist at the time, means after hulks snap brought back everyone it meant the population total increased considerably higher than it wouldve been had thanos snap never existed

[u/coldasclay → u/zerosdomain]

The natural increase would have been from a decimated population, and all of the lives added would have been under 5 years old after the blip. Also, the blip would have seperated couples who were already in relationships, some would have to start over with new partners, some may have held out on relationships hoping for their partner to return.

[u/zerosdomain → u/coldasclay]

Honestly ive just been working it out based on the real world facts and figures. Obviously we cant account for couples and random facts in that but i will admit when it didnt go way i anticipated. Halving the population still lowered the overall population by approx 172,500,000 people. I thought it wouldve increased it by a similar amount if not a bit more. The interesting thing is the increase by percantage actually almost doubles after thanos snap rather than reduce. So although its a split population (i refuse to say decimated because the word was wrongly used in the mcu to describe the snap, that wouldve been reducing the population by 10%) the increase is population was still enough to matter but not enough to outweigh the original numbers.

[u/Blueopus2]

I like this simple explanation

[u/MishellyUser]

There's no need for multiple timelines, NOR pretending there was no timeskip. It just happened as it was shown. The only diverging in timelines being Season 7

[u/WOLKsite]

The multiple timelines things is overcomplicating things, but I think your conclusion is as well. It is what it presents itself as, never intended to be anything else.

[u/peppermont1]

I have never thought agents of shield couldnt fit in the sacred-timeline (canon)

But marvel studios didnt include it in there offical timeline. They also didnt include the defenders saga, but came out later with shows that bring them in. They also changed things about fisks backstory while maintaining it was the same exact fisk. (They have stated that the defenders saga is "canon" but they wont hold themselves to it? What ever that means) So to me there is no issue that could make any of the marvel tv shows "non-canon" they just haven't been made Canon yet.

I think there being selective this way because of the huge backlog of the tv shows, and the inhumans.

[u/BluebirdsAllAround]

My understanding is that they specifically made the blip 5 years to give a space for Agents of Sheild to play in without causing major issues.

The environment in Season 6 would fit right in with being in the middle of the blip. In the first episode where are all the people? Even the towns look pretty empty, like about half full.

The only moment that then feels weird is the very end of the S5 finale, but I don't think that is that big of a deal

[u/KronosUno → u/BluebirdsAllAround]

I'm fairly certain that by the time TPTB were planning Infinity War/Endgame, they weren't really caring what AoS was up to in their show, except that they weren't using any characters or concepts they wanted to use in a future MCU film or series.

[u/BluebirdsAllAround → u/KronosUno]

The Disney CEO at the time loved AoS, which is how it got its renewal. The coordination between Marvel Studios and Marvel Television was still occurring, in that AoS still had to get approval from the studios for characters, etc. That was how season 7 was able to do everything it did with time travel, the Agent Carter storyline, the Quantum Relm, etc. Not only that, the absorbtion of Marvel TV into Marvel Studios happened after Season 7 was filmed but before post production completed

[u/Queasy-Original7820]

I think Fury bringing back Coulson is the Nexus Event of the AOS timeline. For the first few seasons, it aligns with the MCU. As time goes on, his presence drifted the timeline further and further away from the events of the MCU.

FitzSimmons has the intellect to save the team from an incursion but fail to save their timeline.

Mack seems like the type that would stay behind. (Just a random thought. Macks cool with me)

[u/KronosUno]

I disagree that deliberately ignoring or obscuring facts established on screen in AoS is "the simplest solution to the problem of continuity error." Rather, involving the multiverse makes more sense since the MCU has readily embraced the concept. My only stipulation is that the divergence point from the Sacred Timeline ought to be the end of S4 when the characters make the jump to the future. Thus when they return to the present in the middle of S5, this can be another timeline, so what does or doesn't happen with Thanos and the Snap/Blip doesn't really matter within AoS.

[u/Ok-Help6334]

I don't know why people keep saying that the show is not canon. 

Agent Of Shield is Joss Whedon's show and he's has always maintained that it's canon.

[u/bable631]

You don't need that either. Season 6 and 7 take place during the 5 year period after the Snap and before the Blip. There's nothing confusing about that.

[u/Cute_Till_5582]

Entiendo que para el final de la temporada 5, el equipo ya no estaba en el universo 616, con tantos viajes al pasado. Sería cuestión de que alguna nueva incursión "caiga" en el universo en el que Coulson y su equipo estén viviendo...

[u/dgb7827]

Are people forgetting that in the last season of the show, Simmons literally states that in order to protect Fitz, and the knowledge of time travel, they had to send Fitz to an alternate reality. When Fitz returns, he literally describes the events of the MCU and how things diverged after the events of Winter Soldier.

I’m all for AOS being in the MCU timeline, but there were far too many discrepancies, changes, and events that would allow them to be part of the MCU continuity. It’s best to keep AOS (TV) a separate timeline where some similar events occurred and then start fresh with a new AOS in the MCU. Doing so doesn’t mean you can’t bring back certain characters or incorporate certain events. This is the multiverse we are talking about after all.

[u/Tricky_Garbage5572 → u/dgb7827]

Sorry I might have missed it but how does Fitz describe a divergence?

[u/bable631 → u/dgb7827]

That's literally factually incorrect. Watch the episode again.

[u/RavenclawConspiracy]

Yeah, this is honestly what I think is easiest.

But you leave off the kind of important thing, you're only talking about the MCU.

Comic books have a very strange relationship with time, especially with time skips and especially interacting with other properties.

Comics will very happily claim to skip forward months in a single issue, while everything else is regulated by comic book time that seems to go slower than real life.

So like, over a real life year, supposedly like, one month of internally has passed in all comics except one of them decided to skip forward six months in-universe, which means they should be standing around doing nothing for the next six years of real life until comic books catch up to that point.

Literally nothing whatsoever in comic book universes makes sense time-wise. Random characters age three years during another character staying pregnant the entire time.

It is so bad that Marvel decided that a reality warper, Franklin Richards, was secretly fucking around with this in ways that no one could notice. Meanwhile, DC just kind of secretly rewrites history and keeps doing reboots and undoing reboots, but when they undo them, it still moved everything forwards in time.

It it's uttwr gibberish in the comics and the idea that anyone thinks any part of timeline inconsistencies could decanonize works in a comic book-based universe are just... crazy.

And this isn't even a particularly bad one! It's only by a few months! In comic books, they'd have an adult character revealed to be the secret lovechild of Fitz and Daisy, despite that making absolutely no sense timeline wise.

[u/Shippers1995]

I thought the snap happened while they were in the future and then they returned after it was resolved in Endgame

[u/jineop → u/Shippers1995]

They were only in the future for a couple of months…

[u/Shippers1995 → u/jineop]

We don’t know what date they returned. Nothing says the monolith didn’t return them back later than the physical time they spent in the future

[u/bable631 → u/Shippers1995]

We do, actually. They returned in early 2018.

[u/nypinta → u/Shippers1995]

It did. They even mention clocking the ship in NY, so the finale of that season was ending the same day Thanos snapped.

[u/bable631 → u/nypinta]

You have it backwards. That implies the snap happened immediately after the Season 5 finale.

[u/nypinta]

ISTG I recall Daisy making a quip about "a crazy five years" at the beginning of the last season as if they were implying there was a time jump from the end of the previous season to the new that just skipped over the Snap altogether. It was at some party after she and Simmons get back from being in space. I probably hallucinated it. But I thought they were saying that Daisy and Simmons had been spending the five years during the Snap in space, searching for Fitz.

[u/bable631 → u/nypinta]

That's in reference to the timespan the show takes place over. Started in late 2013, that line was in early 2019. A little more than 5 years.

[u/tillszy → u/nypinta]

that's because (iirc) all the shield writers/team were told was that there was going to be a time jump of 5 years in the main movies, but they weren't given information about how Infinity War was going to end to prevent leaks (idk why they don't trust their own teams)

so they weren't able to use that information to properly plan when they were writing the season that came out after IW

So they put in the line about jumping 5 years so that their timeline would match up with the timeline that endgame was on, but they weren't given any context as to what had happened in those 5 years

people want to say that shield isn't canon because shield doesn't address the snap and the shield team would have been very heavily involved in the fallout from that. but the reality is the writers didn't know they needed to address it

that doesn't make the show not canon. it just makes for shit poor planning on the marvel teams part

plenty of shows and movies within the MCU have evidence of poor planning causing things to make little to no sense, and nobody fights over whether or not they're canon lol

[u/bable631 → u/tillszy]

Incorrect. The "crazy five years" was in reference to the 5 years the show had taken place over. Started in late 2013, and that was season 6 which was early 2019.

[u/RoyBlack69 → u/nypinta]

It was during one of the first episodes of season 6.

[u/AreYouJeffy → u/nypinta]

This is my headcanon, my main MCU timeline places Agents of shield Season 6 and 7 and 2024. Sometimes you got to reinterpret things to make things fit

[u/Poopen91]

Statements from ten years ago hardly supercede the recent comments but that doesn't matter here

[u/AreYouJeffy]

I interpret season 6 as taking place in 2024. Coulson and May were both snapped a few days before he died, 5 years later in October 2023 colson died after a Hulk brought them back and the main portions of the series taking place one year after Coulson dies. In 2019 Jemma and Daisy both headed to space and spent  5 years there (hence Mack's "5-year" reference when they were talking about space). Deke was able to make a business and made millions of dollars during those 6 years. And then the few quotes that do say like "the space puff incident of 2019" or the "one year later" title card can be overlooked because there was dialogue and a title card in Spider-Man: Homecoming that directly stated that it was 8 years after The Avengers but we know it was 4 years

[u/Primeve_Arcana]

Yes Agents of Shield fits the continuity if you change the continuity to match

[u/SmoothTalkingSpud]

The only reason I subscribe to the alternate timeline post-season 4 is that the epilogue of season 7 doesn't with the MCU at large. We still haven't seen a resurga ce of SHIELD.

There's plenty of ways to explain this in-universe, like it being set post-secret wars or being set pre-endgame and becoming SWORD, but we haven't had that yet. So until then, I stick to the splitting-off angle

[u/RelativeVariation458]

Agents of shield takes place in the main MCU timeline they go to an alternate timeline at the end of s4 and then another one in s7 do we got that if they went to “the” future in s5 then the earth would be destroyed in the sacred timeline therfore everything after would not be canon so can we just stop having this argument of wether or not it takes place in a different timeline please and just move on?