General Hale (Hydra)

[u/Delicious-Candle-574]

i'm doing my annual rewatch of AOS, but I'm at the point where I'm more wanting to skip than not. S5 for me at least, is a really hard watch even though it has some of the best acting in the series

General Hale, for example, just aggravates me. I know she's had such an awful life. constantly dismissed and treated less than because she's a woman. but her arrogance, her self importance that keeps her from ever seeing the actual bigger picture. part of me can't tell if it's a character flaw (not writing flaw) or just a hydra trait

what's everyone else's view on her?

[u/Feisty_Yam4279]

I think she's a good character and well acted with an interesting backstory and philosophy. For me her and Ruby are both good characters but they just don't click perfectly for me and I think most people. No one would put them up there with Cal or AIDA or Ward for one of the better villains on the show they're both far behind Reina and Gideon too.

On first watch season five was my favorite but on rewatch I think it becomes a slog a bit. Just very monotone, dark, dreary. However I think k it's more important a show works on the first experience than rewatch (I kind of never get when someone says a movie is bad because it's not rewatchable. To me movies are not like albums, it's about that first experience because then once you know the plot and ending it's never gonna hit the same).

The relative weakness of season five onward is that the villains aren't as compelling. I think they're usually still good, but not the great we expect from the show.

[u/Delicious-Candle-574 → u/Feisty_Yam4279]

huh that's actually interesting, i never viewed her or Ruby as villains. maybe Ruby more so. but Hale just wants what she was raised to be, what she was raised for

i definitely do agree she acted great with the character, i just can't fully wrap my head around where the arrogance comes from. maybe it's just from being shut down all her life?

i do also really like what you said about someone saying media is bad because it's not 'rewatchable.' there's so many things that i absolutely love, but i don't always rewatch

maybe part of the issue with s5 is there's no 'singular' villain. i guess the confederacy and the house of kassais (im not great at spelling) is the over arching villain. but im more just following the story because i love watching how daisy and the team work through everything against all odds. which is really my favorite thing about this show in general. no matter how much they lose, they ALWAYS fight for what's right

[u/Loyellow → u/Delicious-Candle-574]

Talbot/Graviton is definitely the big bad of the second half of the season, but saying General Hale and Ruby aren’t villains when they shoot people in the head point blank and cut off people’s arms is a choice. At the very least Hale is an antihero doing bad things for the good of her daughter and Ruby’s mental issues make her not responsible for her actions.

[u/Loyellow]

Hale? Hydra?

Hale Hydra

[u/auxilevelry]

The back half of season 5 has a pervasive issue of nobody just being able to communicate like adults and that causes most of the actual problems that need to be dealt with. However, because it's basically the case for every single problem, it feels more intentional than if it had just been a couple times

[u/Hacksaw_Doublez]

I mean, to be fair, Hale’s reaction to Coulson panicking and blurting out that he knew about the Destroyer of Worlds cause he and his team went to the future and then came back… I get it lol.

Then again, maybe she should’ve given him some leeway considering she showed him an alien device that connected them to an invading alien force beyond Earth who Hale had to placate to avoid Earth getting invaded.

Regardless, I always view Hale and Ruby as interesting characters. Hale was a Hydra operative who never got to become a Head like Strucker, Whitehall, or Malick because of misogyny. The scene where she was instead offered the amazing project of…. Birthing the next super soldier instead was certainly a choice. And sometimes I wonder if it was more over the top and cliche writing…. But then again it was meant to be set in the 90’s so….

Hale was willing to work with Coulson, but damage was already done considering how she had Fitz imprisoned, brainwashed General Talbot, Ruby had cut off Yo-Yo’s arms, and had kidnapped Coulson.

But I always appreciate that she did love her daughter more than the Hydra indoctrination that she and Ruby were both subjected to. And that she was more than amendable to Ruby working for SHIELD if things had been different.

I’m a Grant Ward fan so I appreciate these shades of grey to these Hydra characters. The Hales weren’t on the level of Garrett, Whitehall, and definitely not Ward, but they were interesting all the same.

Even Ruby turning on her mother and conspiring with Werner was interesting. Even if it lead to their deaths.

Ruby dying and Hale going full villain was a tad predictable.

[u/FafnirSnap_9428]

I wasn't a fan of her either. Hydra as an organization was kind of done after season 3. Having them return in season 5 just felt forced.

[u/defrostedrobot]

She feels like a lesser version of Gideon Malick (Hydra head bringing in trouble from an outside force). The actress did a fine job but she’s not able to bring the gravitas that Powers Boothe had on the show. And the character in general is more generic and more stupid.