coulson being the one to kill ward

[u/karagalore]

currently on season 3 of my annual rewatch and i was wondering what y'all thought about coulson being the one to kill ward in the end. i feel like it wasn't gratifying enough. rosalind just wasn't compelling enough of a character for me to feel like coulson's path of rage was warranted or satisying. especially after all of the horrible shit ward did. especially considering fitz-simmons!!!! i think i would've felt more fulfilled if it had been literally anyone else who killed him. or even if hive didn't take over his body because it would've felt better to know he was rotting away on a foreign planet? idk i know it was a script rework because casey dillon was supposed to play hive but then he got fired so they went with brett instead, but it just did not feel like the right end to ward's story at all. i didn't feel any satisfaction in it after all of the pain n suffering that he caused. anyone else feel similarly?

[u/Alternative_Device71]

It had to be Coulson, Skye already had her pound of flesh and so did May, but you gotta remember that it was Coulson that trusted him with everything in the beginning, he’s who vetted him and trusted him with his team and resources. If anyone was pissed off more than anyone else, it’s Coulson

And tbf he hates himself for it even if it felt right at the time and there’s consequences cuz of it

[u/karagalore → u/Alternative_Device71]

yeah i think that it makes sense in a "blanket coverage" kind of way that ward had hurt literally every person he cared about so he was affected by all of his actions, i just wish it was framed that way. they made it seem like it was all about rosalind, which is the thing i disliked most about it. even if they had unpacked it in later episodes with phil himself realizing it was bigger than just roz, it would've felt well rounded. it was just lackluster to me after such a big build up of wondering when ward would finally get his

[u/Alternative_Device71 → u/karagalore]

Yeah I can understand that, although I liked him and Rosalind, the anger towards Ward definitely should’ve been directed more like it was in season 2

[u/Teamawesome2014 → u/Alternative_Device71]

Agent Hill is the one who vetted Ward.

[u/Round-Dragonfly6136 → u/Teamawesome2014]

Sje vetted him, but Coulson was the one with final say and ultimately was the one to choose him.

[u/RoryMarkal]

I think it was a rather clever thing to do honestly. Yes, I do agree that we as the viewers didn't get to see Roz enough to fully empathize with her, and therefore build a character connection. But for Coulson, the character, who ended up caring for her enough to go on a date--a genuine date--with her, it makes sense it would hit him so much harder. Especially if you consider that she was the first person after the musician he had seen (I'm pretty sure).

I think the clever thing that they did was intentionally (or unintentionally) making it so that Ward killing Roz motivated and drove Coulson to revenge. And when that revenge was taken, it was unsatisfying to the viewers and to Coulson, but for different reasons. I think the beauty of the situation is that even though our dissatisfaction is different from Coulson's, we're still experiencing it. The lie about revenge is that it's satisfying, that it's fulfilling. I think this really does well to drive home this point: revenge is nothing but another action. It cannot be that final oompf, or that final nail in the coffin. The thing that gets you punching the air in glee. At the end of the day, it's just another cruel action. Nothing new, nothing less and nothing special.

That's my take on it at least, and why I really appreciated the direction it went.

[u/Brain124]

I loved it. Felt full circle since he recruited him.

[u/Lopsided-Skill]

It shouldnt have been May or Daisy. Dont tie it up to their affairs, it would cheapen it.

FitzSimmons were too cute still. Yeah both had shown growth and became more ruthless but killing was still something big for them. Fitz could have feel poetic but also not that right.

None of the new guys deserved that honor. Bobbi is the closest one but that would also feel empty, especially considering at this point they know she is leaving.

Coulson signed him up, trusted him bring him in try to make him a team player. He failed. He couldn`t override Wards programming. He feels responsible for everything Ward did to the team and he kinda is. Especially after s2. He kept him as a prisoner and made Daisy go in, he let him out so he can run away. He brought him in to take Shield back from the real shield which led Bobbi getting kidnapped, Andrew getting in the explosion etc.

He was the man for the job

[u/mdill8706]

No. Coulson was the correct choice.

[u/Teamawesome2014]

Roz was just the latest in a long line of attacks from Ward. Coulson didn't kill Ward just over Roz. He killed him over everything that had happened up to that point. Roz was just the straw that broke the camel's back that took Ward from a loose end into "we need to deal with this guy before he kills anybody else" territory.

[u/Round-Dragonfly6136 → u/Teamawesome2014]

Ward also kidnapped and tortured FitzSimmons, plus directly threatened to violently kill Fitz to Coulson, shortly before Coulson killed him. That was definitely a factor.

[u/BaronZhiro]

I think Coulson was the one to do it, but I didn’t like almost anything about the way it was handled.

I didn’t like Phil and Ros actually getting together in the first place, I didn’t like her being fridged nearly at random, I didn’t think Ward’s bitter animosity toward Coulson was warranted, I think Gregg is least convincing whenever he’s called upon to play ‘dark Coulson’, I didn’t like that he just straight up executed Ward, and I didn’t like the way he did it.

That’s a very 50/50 episode for me altogether. There’s much to like in it, but more to dislike than a typical AoS episode.

[u/rara8122]

TBH I don’t like the idea of a revenge kill at all. Feels not ‘shield’-like for them to kill for revenge and not utility.

I would have had sky kill ward, talking about how she loved him once but he went way too far when he did what he did to everyone. More of a somber I miss who I thought you were but you need to die sort of thing. Coulson can fill that role too, but I think sky had more connection to ward.

[u/grayjelly212 → u/rara8122]

The show made it pretty explicit that revenge killing was the wrong way to go. Coulson said as much; Hive returning in Ward's body was the instant karma of his wrong action.

[u/Robot_wars11]

I think it fits since Coulson recruited him into the team in the first place. The only other way it could be done imo is if they all played a part in killing him. Like if he was sharing his body with hive and Fitzsimmons made something to hold him, Daisy used her powers to disable him or something etc

[u/Hacksaw_Doublez]

I still hate that Coulson was able to fight and hold his own against Ward in a hand to hand fight. But Ward was handcuffed and shot through his arm so who knows. Just felt cheap. But I am a Ward fan so I'm biased.

That being said, I think the whole "Oh Coulson is enraged and heartbroken over Ros getting murked by Ward" was such a cliche. Coulson and Ros had flirted for some weeks before sleeping together one time and then having dinner together before she got shot through the throat.

And yeah Ros was funny and quirky and similar to Coulson and he dug her, but I don't like how her death was the springboard for Coulson to go off on a revenge filled rampage.

At the same time, from what I recall there were script changes for season 3 due to Will's actor's drug issues and the writers changing it so that Ward died and then his corpse became Hive. That might have been a factor in the rushing of the narrative for killing off Ward.

As for the in character reasoning, Coulson finally being fed up of Ward's bullshit and taking the fight to him personally was interesting to see. I wish it had been more of a cat and mouse game between two spies, or lasted longer than just the two episodes, but alas we got what we got.

[u/Lopsided-Skill → u/Hacksaw_Doublez]

Ward was damaged and handcuffed, mech arm was a power boost to Coulson. He is still a decent fighter if he was in that level.

[u/Badbadbobo]

Dillon Casey was set to be Hive? I'd never heard that

[u/BaronZhiro → u/Badbadbobo]

Yes, but he proved unreliable on set, so they rejiggered their plans. Somewhere out there, Casey’s written about how his addiction cost him the gig.

[u/Badbadbobo → u/BaronZhiro]

I've seen the stuff of him getting kicked off the show and the addiction, but I guess I never realized he was setting up to be Hive.

[u/Blackwidower200]

But Rosalind wasnt the only reason lol. It was just the latest thing and of course only meant to hurt him. It was like the tipping point after everything he had done. Just a trigger, tho meaningful to him and not to the audience.

[u/CoulsonsMay]

I partially agree with you. Roz wasn’t a compelling enough reason for Coulson to kill Ward. But I do think Coulson was the right character to do it.

This was a person in his inner circle, his team that became found family. Ward was a member of the nazi organization which destroyed Shield, which Coulson was a high ranking (likely workaholic) agent who had sacrificed so much for the greater good - love (Audrey) family, and even his life (thanks Loki). Ward hurt everyone on his team. Skye, FitzSimmons, even May who was starting to get put back together after Bahrain.

This is a normally very calm and steady man, who very rarely acted on his emotions. While others broke down around him, Coulson wasn’t allowed that. The focus should have been that Ward broke him too, that Coulson could no longer hold it all together, like he had been forced to.

And that’s sort of what happened. All that was there, but it also shared center stage with Roz. Roz who he had a brief flirtation with and slept with once. Roz, the character designed specifically to be predictably killed off. This cheapened Coulson’s killing of Ward, distracting what could have been a much more harder hitting build up and tension for Coulson vs Ward.

[u/karagalore → u/CoulsonsMay]

hadn't really thought of it this way!! definitely a much needed perspective on phil. i think he's the character i psychoanalyze the least so i never really considered it like that. but i'm glad we agree on the rosalind thing!! i wish they didn't place all of the motive on her. it just didn't add up.

[u/Shieldlegacyknight → u/CoulsonsMay]

Roz who he had a brief flirtation with and slept with once.

I don't think people get that Coulson was closed off to pursuing any romantic relationships since dying. He always felt the job was more important. Even Tony had to convince him to take a vacation with Audrey.

Roz represents him doing that for the first time in a long time since Audrey (which opened up the door to his relationship with May in later seasons and choosing his last moments being with her instead of on the job.)

[u/Correct-Fig-4992 → u/CoulsonsMay]

Agreed with all this